What would you go home with?

[tazsura]

Gallardo...no...R8 definately. I mean the Gallardo...the Lambo R8?...ermm.....no defo the Audi Gallardo...for sure.

Lol..Gallardo....but just by a whisker! (I think :confused:)

Taz :burnout:

[The RS6]

R8 for me, thank you.

Gallardo - too loud, too flashy, R8 looks better
Aston Martin - don't want a fully equiped ford mondeo coupe :D
Ferrari 360 spider - kinda oldish, no thank you. Also, not a big fan of the sound or the design...
Porsche - if I can't have the 997 Turbo, I wouldn't have a Porsche :D

[Ruergard]

I have no need in being the quickest, so I'll go for the R8. The looks... the loooks! :R8:


And oh, there's a company called MTM. And they could probably help me being the quickest if I'd like to... :hihi:

[Leadfoot]

I would always pick the Audi first and foremost and those of you which picked one of the others in the list I hope you ashamed of yourselves even considering them, but to actually vote for one of them you really need to be taken outside and flogged. :w:

AUDI R8 RULES.:thumb:

[tazsura]

Haha...i just know the best is yet to come from the R8!...besides i already have the same engine the RS4! :D

(Well that's my justification anyway....;) )

[AndyBG]

Porsche 997/911 Carrera 4S for me !

Aston Martin is beautiful, but it all stops there...
Lambo' is GREAT, but I just think that Porsche is better car.
Ferrari is now getting old...
Audi R8 would be my second choice.

[tazsura]

Porsche 997/911 Carrera 4S for me !

Aston Martin is beautiful, but it all stops there...
Lambo' is GREAT, but I just think that Porsche is better car.
Ferrari is now getting old...
Audi R8 would be my second choice.

I'd defo have the GT3 over the R8 but not the 4S.

I've never been a fan of the styling of the Aston and thus have never liked it at all....the DB9 is a far better looking machine in my eyes and is the Aston i'd go for now that the Vanquish has vanished!

Taz :alig:

[AndyBG]

911 4S is just perfect IMHO, of course, GT3 and turbo are even better solution, but 4S with ''leistung paket'' is excelent car...

Astons are, now, vanished... :(

[LamboM]

I would take without a questrion , and blind floded
The Gallardo , it's not the fastest (it's the 2nd fastest here).
But it is the most beautiful , and it is one of my personal favorit supercars.
In here it really is Top of the line.

[LamboM]

Its the fastest in a straight line, no question !

O oops Right, I thought it was a 997 turbo, I am a little high right now (not from drugs or alcohol, I don't know I'm just high), but yeah it is the fastest, and it also can out handle most cars here if not all of them.

[Leadfoot]

Boring in every way for me. Porker would be last.

1) Gallardo
2) 360 Spider
3) AMV8
4) R8
5) Porker

A good flogging is a coming soon.;)

But seriously mate, how in the hell could you put either the Aston or 360 ahead of the R8, the Aston looks great and sounds amazing but the actual driving experience isn't really that great and as for the Ferrari, you and I don't see eye to eye of it so less said the better.

As for the Gallardo, the only reason for picking it over the R8 is pure snobbery. The R8 is the better car in every way apart from acceleration and top speed.

[nene]

Gallardo I'd take home. R8 and 997 4S a very close second.

[ben916]

close between the R8 and Lambo, but the R8 is my vote

[Leadfoot]

I think the best compliment that can be given to the R8 is everyone saying that it can easily cope with more power and in fact feels underpowered. This proves that the chassis is so well balanced and designed that even 420hp feel inadequate, and remember not to many years ago the top Porsche, the Turbo only had this much and no one was complaining.

I feel the R8's problem is Audi have in their efforts to make the best handling supercar have done too good of a job and made it too user friendly. It possibly the reason why you are preferring the Gallardo and the Ferrari because they require that bit more effort to get the desired results.

The results from the Ferrari site is to be expected because snobbery is one of the many reason why someone would chose a Ferrari over a Porsche which is by far the better engineered car and better overall package, prior to the R8 that is of course. There is something great about saying you drive a Ferrari or Lamborghini over something like a Porsche or Audi, regardless of how good they are.

[Leadfoot]

Couldnt disagree more with your snobbery claims. The experience and sense of occasion you get driving a Ferrari or a Lambo is something you cannot compair to a Porsche, Audi etc. Its nothing to do with snobbery. Its heritage, history, motor racing, passion. Every person on that Ferrari site can tell you about Enzo Ferrari, where he started, his history and they can tell you the ins and outs of nearly every car that the company has made. Snobbery does not even come into it. The are many reasons why you would choose a Ferrari over a Porsche, nothing to do with snobbery at all.
Ferrari and Lamborghini are two of the finest car makers in the world, why would you not want to own one.

The fact is that the R8 is not at this level and not in this market. Ferrari and Lambo enthusiasts are simply not that interested in it.

By the way how to do you expain that the Lambo was also the favourate car on two Audi sites. Is everyone on these sites snobs too, or is it that the Lambo is more desirable ?

Sorry mate, if you felt this was a dig at you personally as this wasn't my intent. The snobbery I talk about it the same for every car nut who loves cars the world over, I too would have pick either the Ferrari or Lambo prior to driving one of them but my experience didn't live up to my expectations. I think most people would put either of them on a pedestal like I did but the reality is they are nothing that special, sure they are quick and both have a great sound but my experience left my feeling and thinking words like 'felt cheap and where was the money in it', compared to the GT3 is it didn't feel as will engineered or mechanical but this might have been down to the F1 transmission.

Ferrari have an amazing history and heritage but so has Porsche and both have mountains more than Lamborghini. I believe the reason most picked the Lambo was it's supercar looks and the R8 was not picked higher because most can't get past the brand image of a people's car, a brand for the masses. The point I was making about the Ferrari site was the similar hatred that they have for Porsche like we have for BMW and vice versa.

Truth me mate anything I say is not directed at a fellow Audi owner, :vhmmm: well unless you include you know who.:hihi:

[artur777]

People,

I go for Gallardo...
Sorry R8 - you are great but not that exciting and feel a little bit underpowered...
Ferrari - is ok, but a little bit too old...

And I understand elstimpo, why he and other people choos Gallardo...
It's a stunning car even if it's not the best handler and etc...

And about history, heritage and etc...
What could be better than cars made by Enzo Ferrari or Feruccio Lamborghini??? They are really top of the top and no other manufacturers are close to them in terms of excitement, feelings and etc...

[Z07]

Couldnt disagree more with your snobbery claims. The experience and sense of occasion you get driving a Ferrari or a Lambo is something you cannot compair to a Porsche, Audi etc.

You could compare it to driving a Fiat though. A really expensive Fiat.:lovl:

[Ruergard]

The experience and sense of occasion you get driving a Ferrari or a Lambo is something you cannot compair to a Porsche, Audi etc. Its nothing to do with snobbery. Its heritage, history, motor racing, passion.

And you mean that's something a Porsche doesn't have?

Couldn't resist! :jlol:

[AndyBG]

I don't see where did you find all that downsides for Porsche... ?

First, design was never a Porsches, and if the ''Emotions'' and ''Passion'' in looks of the car is what you want, you now for sure that you want find that in the Porsches ''back yard''.
Porsche is ''king'' of the race tracks for 40 years now, and when it comes to race heritage and history, only Ferrari can ''talk'' about that.

Most important thing about Porsche 911 is that of all these cars its only one to have engine in the ''wrong'' place, and fact that it has that engine in its tale is making this car even more special. It has that big disadvantage over all its competitors, yet still Porsche is capable to maintain it on the top.

That kind of technical and engineering perfection is what makes me to say that Porsche is most passionate car... Think about effort that Porsches engineers have to put down in the whole 911 project. and I think that you will reconsider the things you are saying.

They could put engine in the middle of the car and make it hundred times easier for them to work, but no, its still back there making a Porsche 911 only car defying laws of physics.

Sorry for my, maybe little, to passionate reply, but I love Porsches and I had to say this. :D

All best, Andy !

:cheers:

[Leadfoot]

And about history, heritage and etc...
What could be better than cars made by Enzo Ferrari or Feruccio Lamborghini??? They are really top of the top and no other manufacturers are close to them in terms of excitement, feelings and etc...

Get real,

Enzo was one of the most ignorant men ever and his regard for customers of his production cars was dreadful, his opinion was that they were a necessary evil to pay for his racing team.

And Feruccio Lamborghini, a tractor manufacturer who only decided to make cars because Enzo snubbed him when he complained about his Ferrari car.

If truth be told, both cars were a total disaster with regards to reliability prior to their respective take-overs, Fiat improved Ferraris and Audi improved Lamborghini.

I agree with AndyBG, Porsche are the ultimate manufacturer, totally independent and have a quality that only the other can recently claim to be able to achieve, as for racing heritage I don't think even Ferrari can claim to be better. And Lamborghini, their only racing heritage is not on the road but on the sea and they have only been regarded as great handling cars ever since Audi took control, proving that it's not Lamborghini but Audi's direction that has made them the force they are today in terms of handling.

If the list had included a 997Turbo instead of the hummble 997 4S I doubt the result would have been the same.

[Lateknight]

Gallardo for me.

Its not the best looker (I think the R8 just wins that one, Aston a close second).
It doesn't have to be the fastest either.

It all about the motor.
That V10 in the Lambo swings it for me.
I'll take one in Grey or black, with manual tranny. Don't bother with any audio equipment, I wouldn't ever need to switch it on.

Ask again when the V10 R8 is out.

[LamboM]

In my opinion the Gallardo is the best looking.

But hey you're forgetting something.
The argument of which is best , Ferrari , Porsche or Lamborghini has been going on for over 40 years , and probably go on for as cars stay around and maybe even afterwords.
Keep in mind this:
The question is what would you prefer?
hard core big engined supercars,
Or a light weight turbocharged sports car.
Each one has who picks up any of these cars has a different opinion and a different view of cars.
(Audi is not included cause it's still new to this area , and still has a geeky sort of image to shake off, which even the R8 is yet to solve).

[tazsura]

Gallardo for me.

Its not the best looker (I think the R8 just wins that one, Aston a close second).
It doesn't have to be the fastest either.

It all about the motor.
That V10 in the Lambo swings it for me.
I'll take one in Grey or black, with manual tranny. Don't bother with any audio equipment, I wouldn't ever need to switch it on.

Ask again when the V10 R8 is out.

My thoughts exactly! :thumb:

Taz :cheers:

[RussianM3_dude]

360 for me. The Gallardo is nice, but a bit too Teutonic for me. The rest are not really comparable as they are cheaper.

[Leadfoot]

No, Porsche don't have anything like the racing history and pedigree that Ferrari have, so i dont really understand your point !

elstimpo,

Come on mate, Porsche's history and heritage in racing is easily the match of Ferrari's and in most forms of motorsport it way exceeds it, like Le Mans. In fact if Porsche(factory) decide to enter your chosen form of motorsport, quit because unless you like finishing second there will be no joy in it.

With regards to the Fiat comment, the facts are that Fiat not only own Ferrari but improved their quality and reliability way beyond what it was under Ferrari's own ownership. This is something that can't be said about Porsche because their cars are quality and reliable, that is why they are regarded the only true everyday supercar, that is until the R8 came along.

If you regard a true supercar as something which only the privileged few can afford then if that isn't snobbery I don't know what is.

[The RS6]

By 1947 Scuderia Ferrari were building their own cars. Since then Ferrari have dominated F1 racing, seen as Enzo as the true form of motor racing. :deal:

Well, if you want history, by 1947 (When Ferrari started making cars), Auto Union was already wining many races with the Type C & D... :hihi:

And while Enzo Ferrari was driving cars in 1932, Mr. Porsche was creating - quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_Union : "Ferdinand Porsche innovation, a ZF manufactured limited slip differential, introduced at the end of the 1935 season. "

[AndyBG]

How on earth, then, Fifth Gear voted Porsche 997/911 Carrera S for the sports car of the year, and all that over Ferrari F430... ?

I can still remember Platos words... ''You can do everything what you do in Ferrari, just for the far less money...''

Porsche was in F1 as engine munufacturer, two titles for McLaren in that era with Porsche...

In 1984 season, McLaren TAG (Porsche) achived a new world record for points in a single season - 143.5.
To put that last achievement into perspective, second placed Ferrari languished on just 57.5 points...

Ferrari is great, but that amount of disavowal for Porsche... I just can't understand. :confused:

[Leadfoot]

AndyBG,

You have just replied what I was going to put. :cheers:

elstimpo, I like your commitment to your favourite brand but on every count you are wrong, no one have a racing heritage like Porsche, look at the varied forms of motorsport they have entered and dominated, now look at Ferrari. Maybe Enzo looked at the other forms of motorsport and thought it was beneath him, he was after all a very arrogant man who felt he was the greatest engineer ever and customers and racing drivers should feel honoured to drive his cars. But the title of the greatest motorsport engineer is solely the bestowed to the late great Colin Chapman, who F1 cars were years ahead of the competition, including Ferrari.

Ferrari cars have a rightful place up there as one of the greatest supercar and motorsport companies, but the title of the greatest is a very personal thing as each here have their favourites. For me it's Lotus during the sixties, for others it's Porsche during the seventies and some will regard Audi achievements in both rallying and Le Mans worthy of the title. Each isn't wrong as each is only an opinion, but to rate Ferrari as the be all and end all is wrong, they haven't dominated F1 or Le Mans and in fact there was a period where Ferrari was never in the running in it's recent past in F1.

[Leadfoot]

The Fiat comments annoy me because if a Ferrari is an expensive Fiat, then a Porsche is an expensive VW Beetle ! Both of which is incorrect and utterly stupid :(

The very fact your talking about everyday supercars shows the market the R8 is in. Not Ferrari or Lambo territory, which has been my point since the start !

I think you are misunderstanding my comments, I agree that a Ferrari isn't a Fiat and I was only pointing out the fact that Fiat now own Ferrari and also pointed out a very true fact that Fiat improved Ferrari's quality and reliability in much the same way as Audi did with Lamborghini. But still both brand haven't got to reliability of Porsche and I doubt they ever will, it's that Italian thing that they just can't build reliable cars. As for Porsche being an expensive Beetle, Porsche designed the Beetle, just because the 911 has it's engine in the same place does not make it a Beetle, does this mean the a F430 is an expensive X19, clearly this argument can go nowhere.

Does the fact that a R8 is usable everyday make it less supercar than a Ferrari or Lamborghini, that is an interesting thought. Maybe only Italian cars are truly supercars as they were the first to coin the name 'supercar'. I think the term supercar is used to loosely now, too many cars can achieve 200mph and acceleration in sub 15 seconds to 200km/h so the class supercar has to be redefined again.

I regard handling, looks, performance and feel special should be solely the things that define a supercar, not price or where it is made or by whom. The surprising thing is that with the exception of ultimate performance the R8 ticks all the boxes and in performance it handling makes up for this as it's the equal or in a lot of cases betters on the track most so called 'supercars'. If someone doesn't feel the R8 meets their own expectations as a supercar than that is their opinion and I respect that but to many other like myself I would choose the R8 over all others cause of three things, it looks more special than the others, it's more reliable and easier to use daily and finally, IT'S AN AUDI.:thumb:

[HKS786]

Does the fact that a R8 is usable everyday make it less supercar than a Ferrari or Lamborghini, that is an interesting thought. Maybe only Italian cars are truly supercars as they were the first to coin the name 'supercar'. I think the term supercar is used to loosely now, too many cars can achieve 200mph and acceleration in sub 15 seconds to 200km/h so the class supercar has to be redefined again.

I regard handling, looks, performance and feel special should be solely the things that define a supercar, not price or where it is made or by whom. The surprising thing is that with the exception of ultimate performance the R8 ticks all the boxes and in performance it handling makes up for this as it's the equal or in a lot of cases betters on the track most so called 'supercars'. If someone doesn't feel the R8 meets their own expectations as a supercar than that is their opinion and I respect that but to many other like myself I would choose the R8 over all others cause of three things, it looks more special than the others, it's more reliable and easier to use daily and finally, IT'S AN AUDI.:thumb:


Always the voice of reason. I completely agree with you. I think the term "supercar" needs to be redefined. You know on another forum, there was a thread asking people to put together a list of the most beautiful cars. I noticed that the guy who put together the thread said the R8 and I actually agreed with him! I thought about every car out there and I think the R8 is one that I would most like to have!

I admit it was a close one between the F430 and R8, but I just feel that the F430 has lost some beauty over the old 360. Yes it is stunning, but I prefer the rear of the 360. It's so simplistic and unique. The 430 just looks overly-fussy. A bit like the rear of the new M3...

:R8:

[HKS786]

Also, it's true that one vote can make the difference. I just voted in this thread and it's my vote that makes the R8 win (so far) :hahahehe:

:R8:

[Leadfoot]

How many of you know it alls have actually owned a Porsche or a Ferrari - just interested to know what qualifies some of you to pass judgement on something you probably haven't experienced.

Having driven one once or done a track day does not count !!!

3 Porsche though never a 911 and as for the Ferrari/Lamborghini only track work so as you say it doesn't count. I agree with you that Porsche design is wrong in trying to make every model look similar, but in a way every manufacturer is doing the same Ferrari and Lambo included.

The point I find hard to understand it you find driving the Porsche as dull, again each to their own but it is interesting and something I never expected from a fellow car-nut.

[HKS786]

Well I respect your opinion actually. I might not agree with it always but I do respect it ;) I think Leadie was right about redefining the term "supercar" but I do agree with you on some levels about Porsche. I know that their designs have character but they gotta progress more with their designs. If you stand the 911 next to rivals, you will see what I mean...

[Leadfoot]

Porsche does have to get their act together with regards to design, every model they make trying to look like a 911 be it a Boxster or Cayenne and even the Panamera is trying to carry the image of the 911 in to it's design.

I agree that on looks alone the 997 doesn't match or live up to the image of a supercar and the problem is that it hasn't progressed in the same way as the other manufacturer but because of this it has been the sole supercar that could be regarded usable. I believe Porsche has to drop it's 2+2 layout and adopt the mid-engine setup in the future, if they make it's looks closer to that of the Carrera GT then I doubt we would be calling it looks as old fashioned and it's layout as compromising to it true handling abilities.

elstimpo, I too respect your comments and opinions and feel being an own of exotic cars can give a valid discussions based on your own opinions on the breed. We might not always agree on everything but then it would be a boring site if everyone did and I like the varied opinions that make up the arguments and discussion on this site. Sadly they sometime go a little to far of which I may have at times can be blamed for this.

In any case, long live RS6.com.:cheers:

[HKS786]

Yeah I agree about the Carrera GT. How could I forget lol. I'm not too fond of the interior but I love the rest of that car, especially the front. What a beast! I guess it just shows that Porsche can get away from the 911 look and create something unique...

[HKS786]

Haha, this one's for you Leadie:

Remember what you said about redefining the term supercar? Clarkston just put up a blog saying how the R8 "tore up the rules" in other words, redefining what a supercar is! He also speaks about the good reliability. Read it:

"There is only one car here worth your attention or mine, and that's the R8.

Audi has pulled such an absolute blinder that I'm looking at my new Gallardo Spyder and wondering if there's some sly way I can get my money back.

We all know the Supercar Rules. It must be ostentatious, like a Murcielago Roadster (you'd attract less attention riding an ostrich in the raw); and it must be hopelessly compromised.

If you can parallel park without crushing a child or get in without losing a testicle on the seat bolster then it's out. It must leak, fail to start and must scare the very marrow out of your bones in every corner. They're the rules, and not for the first time, Audi has torn them up.

For a start, the R8 hasn't been styled by someone with ADHD. It's subtle, yet unique - TT aside. Get in, knackers intact, and parallel park at will. It'll start first time until long after you won't, and won't leak, rattle or fall apart. Unlike you again. And yet it's still a supercar.

Delicate, precise, composed and effortlessly fast, it uses the best balance of Quattro with heavy rear-drive bias to dish up sizzling IoM domination. For the old guard, it's game over."

http://www.topgear.com/blogs/isleofman/002-audi-r8/


http://www.topgear.com/blogs/isleofman/002-audi-r8//img.jpg


:R8:

[HKS786]

Oh yeah, I also remember him saying "the only problem with the R8 is that I want to give it 6 stars"... ;)

[AndyBG]

Ok..., I think we missed a point a little bit here.

I'm aware that you have your reasons for loving Ferrari and Lambo', and I have big respect for your opinion, it is yours, after all, as you said.

You started this thread to hear what people thinks, and I said main.
I would go for Porsche any time, and that's it !

Hope that you aren't offended by contrary opinion to yours... ?

All best, Andy

:cheers:

[tazsura]

If you want to re-write the Supercar definition, then fine. But all that will do is make the horrid term Hypercar, describe Ferrari's and Lamborghini's because the Audi R8 is not even close to definition of these type of cars. Im sorry thats fact.


I don't think that is fact, more opinion again. I seem to re-call you and Leadie having a similar discussion over whether the 599 is in fact a supercar or not too!

It's great to hear all these views and how we all have differing opinions. Makes the world what is!

PS...my view is the R8 is not a supercar (JUST misses out), nor the 4S. 997 Turbo is a supercar. V8 Vantage, Noble, DB9 all miss the mark by some margin.The Gallardo and 360 are more supercar...but the boundaries are being pushed by the so called hypercars. Supercars used to have a very small bandwith when it came to price/power etc...but the differences are now ever increasing.

Taz :burnout:

[tazsura]

Don't get me started on the Noble...We'll just agree to disagree! :cheers:

Taz :D

[tazsura]

Fair points, but the same could be said of the Lotus Exige 240R could it not? (Acceleration is ~ MacF1...bout 3.5s i think?)(Oh and i do absolutely LOATHE the looks of the Noble...but that's a matter of personal taste)

But it is precisely your last point that makes it NOT a supercar for me...the quality. Supercars are infact premium in every sense of the word...i.e a SUPERcar. Just because the Noble is cheaper doesn't means that it get's special disspensation to enter the supercar fray in my view. I want and expect quality from my supercar..that's why i expect to pay supercar prices.

Also, your previous comments regarding heritage et al ring true here. The lesser Nobles also cheapen the brand in my eyes. I see them as expensive kit cars.

Taz :0:

[Leadfoot]

Truth be told, if the R8 had been badged a Lamborghini Gallardo replacement I doubt anyone would be even questioning it's place/position as a Supercar. Maybe some might question it performance in this every increasing power hungry world but not it ability to entertain or it's sense occasion because it's interior design is to die for and so is it's quality.

When at the dealer's this morning I went over a sat in it again and then sat in the 997Carrera S and I totally agree that Porsche's interior are very plain compared to the other so called supercars but it is still an amazing driver's tool with steering quality which only Lotus better.

So elstimpo, if by the words dull and boring you mean interior and exterior design then I totally agree with you but if this includes the actual driving part then I was very much disagree. And I will always disagree that the Audi R8 is any less a supercars than a 360 or 430 just because it doesn't have the badge or the ultimate acceleration and I would also disagree that at present any other car apart from a Bugatti Veyron will turn more heads than the R8 and surely that is as much a discipline of a supercar as any.

[Leadfoot]

I see them as expensive kit cars.

Taz :0:

Never a truer word was spoke about a car, it's taken over the title from the now no longer TVR and in many way they were so alike, hellish fast and at a friction of the price of the normal competition but with the reduced price came even less reliability.

But least take your 3 points of a supercar
1) like it or not it does have super car looks
2) Faster from 0-60 than a McLaren F1
3) One of the best handling cars ever

No1, the R8 is a much more polished looking thing than any current Noble.
No2, it not as quick but the V10 should be pretty close.
And No3, even in current slow mode form it equals the F430 and GT3 around tracks which are regarded as handling circuits and not power circuit, so it handling is in other words better than either or should I say the match of the Noble.

No matter how you slice it, the R8 desires to be regarded a supercar as any of them and I still believe the only reason not to include it is a snobbery thing that true supercars need a badge to allow them to be called as such.

[tazsura]

The more i think about it, the more i can see the R8 being regarded as a supercar.

It's because of it's label as a 911 rival that detracts initially, but tbh honest it has everything i would want from a supercar.

Yep, the R8 has arrived in my eyes :love:

Taz :R8kiss:

[tazsura]

Interesting article i found !

Supercar is a term used for a high-end sports car, typically an exotic or rare one, whose performance is highly superior to that of its contemporaries. The proper application of the term is subjective and disputed, especially among enthusiasts. The use of the term is dependent on the era: a vehicle that is considered to be a supercar at one time may not retain its superiority in the future. The automotive press frequently calls new exotic cars "supercars".

Design
Many supercars have a rear mid-engine (RMR), rear-wheel drive layout, which allows for better distribution of weight. By moving mass towards the middle of the car, its moment of inertia is reduced. The result is often sharper, more agile handling. Some supercar makers have started building all-wheel-drive supercars as new engines are producing more power than two wheels can take advantage of. For an example, see Bugatti Veyron or Lamborghini Murcielago.
[edit]Power-to-weight ratio
Most supercars have high engine power and low vehicle mass, for the sake of high acceleration (see Newton's Second Law) and good handling dynamics. For example, the 2004 Porsche Carrera GT masses just 3 kilogram per kilowatt (5 lb/hp)—compare this to the similarly sized and shaped Porsche Boxster with nearly 7.1 kg/kW (11.7 lb/hp). The McLaren F1, introduced in 1991 and one of the fastest supercars of the 20th century, produced 467.6 kW (627.1 hp) against a mass of 1140 kg (2513 lb), translating to 2.44 kg/kW (4.01 lb/hp). Certain vehicles have a high power-to-weight ratio despite their heavy weight, due to a very powerful engine. For example, the Bugatti Veyron carries 2.61 kg/kW (4.30 lb/hp) despite weighing 1950 kg (4299 lb), including fuel [1], due to its 746 kW (1001 hp) engine. The Koenigsegg CCR and Koenigsegg CCX have the highest power-to-weight ratio among production supercars: with 601 kW (806 hp) (on California grade 91 octane gasoline) and a weight of just 1,180 kg (2,601 lb) the Koenigsegg carries only 1.96 kg/kW (3.23 lb/hp). According to the Shelby Super Cars website, the Ultimate Aero TT holds the new production record, carrying a mere 1.42 kg/kW (2.33 lb/hp).
[edit]Acceleration
Supercars, by the usual definition, offer extremely high acceleration compared to most vehicles, including ordinary sports cars. Some current expectations are as follows:
0 to 100 km/h (62 mph): Under 4 seconds for virtually all supercars today. The Ultima GTR can go from 0 to 100 km/h in 2.6 seconds and the Bugatti Veyron can do this in 2.5 seconds.[2]
0 to 160 km/h (100 mph): Under 7 seconds is generally recognized as the standard, with undisputed supercars being significantly faster.
Versions of the Ultima GTR, introduced in 2006, has recorded a 0 to 160 km/h time of 5.3 seconds.
A Bugatti Veyron can achieve 0 to 160 km/h in 5.5 seconds.[3]
0 to 320 km/h (200 mph): Under 30 seconds. McLaren F1 28 seconds, Saleen S7 23 seconds, Bugatti Veyron 22 seconds.
Standing quarter-mile (400 meter): Under 13 seconds is arguably a requirement, as is a trap or terminal speed of at least 175 km/h (110 mph).
The Ferrari Enzo completes the quarter mile from a stop in about 11.1 seconds at 214 km/h (133 mph).
The Koenigsegg CCR, introduced in 2004, is officially claimed to run the quarter mile in "9 seconds, end speed 235 km/h (146 mph)" [4]
Standing mile (1.6 km): Trap (terminal) speed of at least 320 km/h, for example the Saleen S7, Bugatti Veyron, Pagani Zonda, Koenigsegg CCR, McLaren F1, Ferrari FXX.
[edit]Top speed
On March 31, 1998, the McLaren F1 prototype (XP4) set the speed record at 386km/h (240.1mph) at 7800 rpm. The production models are normally limited to giving them a top speed around 231 mph. The prototype was driven by Andy Wallace on the 9 km straight at Volkswagen's Ehra-Lessien test track in Wolfsburg, Germany.
On February 28, 2005, the Koenigsegg CCR with 601 kW (806hp) achieved a top speed of 387.87 km/h (241.01 mph) on default settings. The car was driven on Italy's Nardo Prototipo proving ground, a circular track with a circumference of 12.5km. This exceeded the McLaren's record [1] The steering wheel was kept at 30 degrees, slowing the car; the car has not been tested on a straight track.
In October, 2005, Car and Driver magazine's editor Csaba Csere test drove the final production version of the Veyron for the November 2005 issue. This test, at Volkswagen's Ehra-Lessien test track, reached a top speed of 407 km/h (253 mph). The Veyron can also go from 0 to 300 km/h (190 mph) in just under 19 seconds [2].
In 2006, James May drove a Bugatti Veyron to its rated top speed of 407 km/h on Volkswagen's Ehra-Lessein track, replicating Csaba Csere's experience, for the BBC's Top Gear television program, the first time this had been done for any international broadcast network.
[edit]Handling
A supercar is usually built for maximum cornering and road gripping ability in order to achieve superior cornering speeds. Lateral g-forces during the tightest turns can generally exceed 1 g.
A popular benchmark is a lap time around the Nürburgring of under 8 minutes. There are also other tracks where supercars are being tested. Lap time tables from different racetracks are posted at fastestlaps.com.




In addition to performance, the following criteria are also cited in determining if a particular sports car or exotic car deserves the supercar moniker:
Brand: Supercars are often very brand-centric (e.g. Ferrari) and a new brand wanting to join the list has to prove itself before its acceptance.
Styling: Supercars often feature groundbreaking styling elements. The Formula One-inspired Enzo Ferrari, for example, set a new styling direction for that company.
Rarity: Supercars do not necessarily have to be rare. A very limited production run of a sports car would classify it as an “exotic” and not a "supercar" by default. Some might consider this controversial as it opens a host of other vehicles to the “supercar domain” For example, the Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 meets the 0-100 acceleration, handling, speed, weight:hp ratio, and Nordschleife times to be considered in the supercar territory.
Focused design: Supercars are not designed to be practical transportation devices, with functionality varying widely between different examples. Many car body styles (including 2+2 coupe, station wagon, and pickup truck) make inherent tradeoffs of performance potential for utility. By this measure, extreme vehicles like the Dodge Ram SRT 10 are not normally called supercars (in the case of Dodge Ram SRT-10, it is classified as a truck, not car, so the car-based description would not fit anyway). While one undisputed supercar, the McLaren F1, featured seating for three (and had a number of useful storage spaces), performance was not sacrificed, but instead improved by the seating design: the driver's central and forward position lowered the vehicle's moment of inertia by allowing the engine to be mounted further toward the centre of the car, thereby improving handling.

LOL...I wouldn't trust wikipedia for a defining line on Supercars though!

Taz :D

[tazsura]

Totally disagree, R8 is in no way shape or form a supercar. Polished looks - who wants polished looks for a car deemed a supercar. The day i call a car like the R8 or the AMV8 a super car is when the whole thing is over for me and i go buy a Volvo and am satisfied by it.

Sorry guys, your all Audi fans which i think clouds your judgement. Your all probably buying into this whole 'modern' super car thing, which to me is just sheer bull.

Put a Lambo Diablo, Murci, Ferrari 360, Ferrari 430, Gallardo next to an R8 and tell me the R8 is the definition of a supercar.

How on earth anyone could called an 'understated' sports car a 'supercar' is beyond me


Well i am an Audi fan, but i'm more over a Car fan. Infact i've had more of an affiliation to the Prancing Horse for a longer time right from being a toddler as my Uncle used to work for the Rossi Gear motor's who supplied the gearbox's to many a Ferrari and Lancia. Hearing him talk about being scared to take the F40 out of 3rd gear had me hooked! It's only since '99 that we've become an Audi family.

I think the R8 needs to be judged on merit.

Taz :cheers:

[Leadfoot]

So elstimpo, what you are saying is if the R8 had been badged a Gallardo then you wouldn't have regarded it a true supercar.

Is this indeed the case.

[tazsura]

Elstimpo, what do you reckon on the Vanquish? or the upcoming DBS? How would you pigeon hole them?

Taz :vhmmm:

[Leadfoot]

What about the new Ferrari Dino, same performance as the R8, similar handling is possible, looks are an objective thing but expect something similar to a small 599 style. And based on it's price 100~110K euros it going to be when specced up around the same as the R8.

If it's to be regarded a supercar then surely the R8 is too.

[tazsura]

Vanquish is a supercar. Although i have questioned it.

It does have the looks, i don't think anyone can call the Vanquish under-stated. It deff makes a statement as a car.
It has got the power

Although they have now stopped making it, i would consider it to be a supercar, but your right, only just.

Had a DB9 a deff isn't a supercar. DBS i expect to be a supercar,

Yeh I agree 100%.

I would put the R8 in exactly the same style category as the Vanquish however, not in-your-face like a Lambo or Ferrari, but understated cool, and more than capable of holding a persons glare. Really is a beautiful car in the flesh.

I wish they still made the Vanquish, although rumours are rife that Aston are working on the replacement...not to be confused with the DBS. Can't wait! :applause:

Taz :R8kiss:

[tazsura]

you wouldn't put the R8 in the same category as the AMV8 rather than the Vanquish ??

Vanquish is way above the R8 in super car status. Your talking about Aston Martins flag ship model in comparison to their entry level car :confused:

Oh no, sorry, maybe i wasn't clear. I was just saying in looks terms, the R8 has got what it takes. It DOES make the impact a-la Vanquish.

Price wise the R8 is closer to the V8 Vantage. But in performance terms, it's probably closer to the Vanquish.

The AMV8 is another car i have a pet hate against too! Lol

Taz :wo:

[Leadfoot]

Can't agree with this at all, sorry :eye: Vanquish has so much more road presence than an R8. With all due respect the only time i have seen an R8 coming the other way i did actually think it was TT, till it got closer.

Actually I have to agree with this statement and the same is true for the A5 which also looks like the TT in the mirror or coming towards you. But the very same can be said about the Aston range and in fact unless you are a total car nut all of them are hard to tell a bit.

But I am still at a lose as to how a R8 doesn't have the road presence of the Aston or Ferrari or Lamborghini, maybe I am bias but on this I don't think so, I am not talking about driving etc, only looks and to me the R8 is every bit as imposing as any of the others.

Also if it truly performance that is stopping the R8 from become a supercar then the V10 with fix this as it will match the current Gallardo in acceleration and topspeed and better it on everything else and in your own words the Vanquish is a supercar more than the Vantage because of the sheer performance and power it has over the other.

You can have double standards just because one is a lesser brand name.

[Leadfoot]

Funny enough I have meet two A5 coming the other way and from a distance I thought both were TTs, it was only when they were 100m away that I knew for sure.

Sorry about the last bit it should have read.



You can't have double standards just because one is a lesser brand name.


OK, all of this is everyone's own opinion and I respect that, I was only pointing out that on each occasion that in my opinion the R8 meets your requirements but again it's my opinion.

As for the Z8, I see it as a modern day AC Corba and from people I know who have driven it they said it had a bite like a Corba as well. Would I class it as a supercar, no because in my opinion it doesn't have the looks, handling etc. But if BMW did do another M1 then I would say it was a supercar, just like the original.

[Leadfoot]

There is of course the argument that all the cars we have discussed are not in fact Super cars. Which i would buy into.

In its simplest and best form then the EB110/288 GTO/F40/F50/ENZO/Zonda/Diablo GT/Koenigsegg/Carrera GT .... Those are supercars

the rest are not. I buy into that. In fact i accuse some of you as having bought into the modern term of supercar, when in fact i have done the same, by classing the 430, 360, Gallardo as super cars. When in fact they are 'Junior Super cars' and in comparison to those mentioned in the list, are mass produced, compromised, driven by electronics etc

Fair point and I would agree with this, so in other words the term 'driven by electronics' is referring to ESP and the above are what you would class as a true MAN'S car, but wait a minute, the ENZO has all of the electronics so it can't really be classed the same as the others.

If you were to class the F430, Gallardo etc as junior supercars then I would agree with the term of calling the R8 and Porsche Turbo as everyday junior supercars. As for the Vantage, 997Carrera and Maserati and the like, I class them as GT cars because they are either front engined which is something a true supercar isn't and secondly they have rear seats which again no true supercar could possibly have.

You may have noticed that I don't class the 997Carrera and R8 as direct rivals as in my opinion they aren't, only in price and acceleration do their match, on the track they are a world apart.

You didn't say if you agreed with my opinions on the Z8. Did you feel they were right?

[tazsura]

There is of course the argument that all the cars we have discussed are not in fact Super cars. Which i would buy into.

In its simplest and best form then the EB110/288 GTO/F40/F50/ENZO/Zonda/Diablo GT/Koenigsegg/Carrera GT .... Those are supercars

the rest are not. I buy into that. In fact i accuse some of you as having bought into the modern term of supercar, when in fact i have done the same, by classing the 430, 360, Gallardo as super cars. When in fact they are 'Junior Super cars' and in comparison to those mentioned in the list, are mass produced, compromised, driven by electronics etc

Agree. The term "junior supercar" encapsulates these car much more appropriately...and negates the "hyper-car" terminology. Junior supercars have a much wider scope and the R8 would definately be in this group. No doubt what so ever.

Taz :R8kiss:

[tazsura]

Can't agree with this at all, sorry :eye: Vanquish has so much more road presence than an R8. With all due respect the only time i have seen an R8 coming the other way i did actually think it was TT, till it got closer.


Interesting but i could/would never mistake a R8 for a TT. Maybe i'm just too much of a car buff, but both my girlfriend and sister have spotted R8's while in the City and car buffs they ain't!

I adore the Vanquish (it would defo have a place in my dream garage...and an R8 wouldn't!) but the R8 has more presence for sure. But, this is all opinion of course.

Taz :R8kiss:

[HKS786]

Interesting but i could/would never mistake a R8 for a TT. Maybe i'm just too much of a car buff, but both my girlfriend and sister have spotted R8's while in the City and car buffs they ain't!

I adore the Vanquish (it would defo have a place in my dream garage...and an R8 wouldn't!) but the R8 has more presence for sure. But, this is all opinion of course.

Taz :R8kiss:

I agree. In my opinion R8 has more presence. Vanquish doesnt have nowhere near as much. Just my 2p...

[AndyBG]

Me again... :D

I would like to mix 997/911 GT2 in all this...

It is two seater and it has 530 hps, it has acceleration, top speed... everything, even a price by ''big players'' standard.

Can we call 911 GT2 a ''supercar'', or just ''junior supercar''... ?

[tazsura]

Me again... :D

I would like to mix 997/911 GT2 in all this...

It is two seater and it has 530 hps, it has acceleration, top speed... everything, even a price by ''big players'' standard.

Can we call 911 GT2 a ''supercar'', or just ''junior supercar''... ?

Andy...come on...we know the answer to this one...GT2 is SUPERCAR for sure!

Taz :thumb:

[tazsura]

I have a very funny feeling if you badged a Skoda with Audi's badges, you'd all want one of those and it would have more presence than an F40 :hihi:

Loyalty is a good thing, it just clouds judgement

Come on man, there ain't no need for a comment like this...akin to the Fiat Ferrari comment earlier.
I don't know how many times I have to say this but i'm NOT an Audi sucker....I have opinions. I don't like the Q7 and until recently thought that the A5/S5 was a big let down.

And FYI the Z8 were all manuals...i.e same running gear as E39 M5

Taz :noshake:

[tazsura]

The Alpina Z8 came as only Automatic, my mistake.

I can't fathom how anyone can say the R8 has more road presence than a Vanquish - to be thats absolutely ridiculous and Audi flag waving. Sorry

Or...the opposite. Audi Bashing. People not wanting to accept that Audi could enter this market so successfully at its first attempt. Whatever...i don't know.

Taz :revs:

[tazsura]

i own an Audi :doh:

im not bashing Audi by saying a Vanquish has loads more road presence than an R8 am i. Its pretty bloody obvious.


This wasn't aimed directly at you mate, I know you own a bloody nice S5! :cheers:

General comment only.

As a Graduate of design and engineering and working in Architecture, i know design and I know what i like. I have to be subjective about design every day. When it comes to cars, it's my money that paying for my car, i'm not going to part with my spondoolies to buy a car just because it has the right badge or matches the badges of the rest of my cars! I'll buy on merit only...(currently looking at an old Porsche 993/964...but i test drove a 350Z two weeks ago to see if I was missing anything. Good sports car..but one dimensional, I would get bored with it after a few weeks. See, i hold no badge bias).

Subjectively/Objectively...it's pretty bloody obvious to me the R8 has more presence. But again, my opinion. I'm finshed with this now as i'm sure people are getting bored..as am I! Lol

Taz :thumb:

[quattro Gmbh]

I would choose the R8.

and I would prefer Carrera S over Carrera 4S.

[Leadfoot]

again i find that staggering. Can't help but think if the R8 was a BMW opinions would be different.

I mean just look at the thing. The Aston is a big V12, a big lump of a thing that you can see coming a mile off. The R8 is a rounded low, small car. How on earth can it have more presence than the Aston.

The mind Boggles sometimes :R8kiss:

Not to jump on your back mate, but are you saying that the Aston has more presence than say an Audi R8 or F430 because both of these are of similar size.

http://au.carnewstoday.com/car-news/images/thumbs/lrg_article_621-img_0.jpg
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/05/18/automobiles/600-audi-01.jpg
http://www.automedia.com/NewCarBuyersGuide/photos/2005/Aston%20Martin/Vanquish%20S/Coupe/2005_AstonMartin_Vanquish_ext_1.jpg

Sorry to sound so blunt but come on, the Aston is a pretty car but in no way does it look as good as the other two and if it's only size that gives road presence then it's about time I bought a lorry if I want to get noticed.

[AndyBG]

GT2 is a supercar. The power and the handling is immense. However, it deserves to live in something so much more special than the boring shell Porsche put it in. Thats what i hate about the GT2, it pretty much looks like every other Porsche despite being far far superior.

Doesn't have super car looks for me, but no Porsche does with the CGT an exception

I stiil thinks that look of 911 isn't bad at all, but obviously, we can't agree there.

Here are some links of tests of these cars, just see and little refresh you images of theses cars standing next each other...


http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/tests/vergleichstest/hxcms_article_504062_13987.hbs

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/tests/fahrberichte/hxcms_article_500344_13987.hbs

[HKS786]

:lovl: :lovl: :lovl:

:R8:

No offence here bro, but you said you wouldnt come back to this thread to see that your opinion is wrong, but now you return and laugh at mines...

[HKS786]

i own an Audi :doh:

im not bashing Audi by saying a Vanquish has loads more road presence than an R8 am i. Its pretty bloody obvious.

visual appeal is very subjective. So far 2 people have said that the R8 has more presence but you are practically saying that our opinion is wrong by saying "it's pretty bloody obvious". Apparantely it's not so obvious to everyone...

[HKS786]

I stiil thinks that look of 911 isn't bad at all, but obviously, we can't agree there.

Here are some links of tests of these cars, just see and little refresh you images of theses cars standing next each other...


http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/tests/vergleichstest/hxcms_article_504062_13987.hbs

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/tests/fahrberichte/hxcms_article_500344_13987.hbs

Thanks for that. In my opinion, it further shows how much more presence the R8 has over the 911. The 911 looks plain to me and it's overall shape seems dated while Audi has produced something modern and very appealing. Of course this is just my opinion...

Also, I think it's very hard to choose between the R8 and F430. I think the F430 might have a slighty nicer front end, but I would need to see both cars side by side. I think the 430's headlights are a little too small, whereas the R8 has a very smart headlight design incorporating LEDs.

I think the R8 has a nicer rear end than the 430. Like I always say, I feel that the rear of the 430 is a little fussy and it's lost the beauty of the old 360. Also, I feel that the Audi has a nicer interior if you look at it in a brighter colour like cream. This is important because the interior is the interface between you and car. You want it to be a pleasant place to be. Overall, I think Audi has created something very nice and I think if I had the choice between the R8 and 430, I'd go for the R8 :thumb:

Just my thoughts...

Oh yeah and here's an interior shot in cream to show what I meant:

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w239/J78628/Untitled.jpg

[tazsura]

Well i think a Lorry has more road presence than most things would you not agree ???

I think cars such as the Ferrari 575, 599 do have more road presence because of their size over a V8 - yes absolutely. In the same way an F40 and an F50 have more road presence again, and no suprise, they are bigger cars.

I think the Vanquish is a beatiful looking car, i think its size mixed with Aston's equisite looks for the V12 give it presence on the Road that can only be rivaled by a big V12 or a 'supercar' (in the purest sense of the term)

The Ferrari 430 has more road presence than the R8, simply because its so much more aggresive looking. Im not a fan of the way the 430 looks at all, otherwise i'd have bought one. The R8 is a very rounded, classy looking thing - which really doesn't help too much for its presence on the road.

A big V12 and an aggresive V8 will always have more road presence than the 'softer' looking cars.

The F40 and F50 are not bigger than the 575 or 599. :noshake:

Size does have a factor to play in presence...but only in terms of footprint. Like a three story block of flats...or a double storey town house...the flats have a bigger footprint...but the townhouse is the one that has presence.

And i'm not comparing the Vanquish to a block of flats btw! Just an example! :0:

The detailing is very good on the R8, but there are aspects of the design that grate on me...the rear grills under the lights for example and the extended look of the wheelbase in the side profile. However, as a whole it works very well. Sure it's restrained in comparison to the Gallardo, but it's low, sleek, and wide...everything you pretty much come to expect from a supercar...no? :vhmmm:

Taz :cheers:

[tazsura]

I think you will find the the F50 and the F40 are wider than both the 599 and 575, which when coming at you head on, means they are larger.


and no, its not everything i look for in a supercar, as a) it aint a supercar is any sense of the term and b) you said it is restrained. How the hell can a 'supercar' be described as Restrained ?????

Apologies, you said bigger previously, you didn't specify in what axis. F40 is about 20mm wider than the 599...so yes your right in terms of width..but larger? No...you'll find both the 599 and 575 have a larger frontal area due to their height than both the F40 anf F50. You have a very keen eye to be able to spot this diff in width though...i'm suprised you can't tell the difference between the R8 and TT! (Just a joke man :thumb: )

I said it was restrained in comparison to the Gallardo...most things are compared to Lambo's! I would call the Vanquish restrained in it's styling too, hence why i asked what your opinions were on this car previously. It's an elegant car rather than shocking like a Lambo.

Taz :thumb:

[HKS786]

As far as i am concerned 'mate', super car definition is very much down to opinion, to me, and a lot more people, road presence is 100% quantifiable. I cant for the love of god see how an R8 has more road presence than a bigger, more muscular car like the Vanquish - i suggest you get to spec savers.

Reading through this thread all i can say is that i won't be discussing or asking opinions of other brands of cars on www.rs6.com (http://www.rs6.com) as this site is very one eyed and its all Audi, Audi, Audi - and thats not me.

As i say, im 100% sure if the R8 had a BMW badge on it, a lot of you lot would have a different opinion. :doh:

Yes you cant understand why the R8 has more presence, similarly I cannot understand why you think the Vanquish has more presense. It's called opinion. Cheap insults get you nowhere. When you were banging on about not coming back here to see your opinion is wrong I told you that I for one respected your opinion. A little respect for my opinion would be nice.

Another thing is, we dont even agree on what presence IS. You believe that it is to do with dimensions, and I agree. However, the R8 is newer and the Vanquish is older. SOMETIMES the age of a car can make it have less presence. Not always, but sometimes it can. I for one remember how much presence the E46 M3 had, now it has less in my opinion. It's an age thing. Now in the case of the R8, it is very futuristic yet stylish. It incorporates thing like LEDs and has a headlight design that hasnt been seen before. All of this will add to it's overall presence in MY opinion.

Whether this site is "one eyed" or not, it has nothing to do with me. Yes my sig might have an R8, but before that it was the F430. I am also on many forums, that I joined before this one I might add. So I think a little respect for my opinion would be nice :thumb:

[Leadfoot]

As far as i am concerned 'mate', super car definition is very much down to opinion, to me, and a lot more people, road presence is 100% quantifiable. I cant for the love of god see how an R8 has more road presence than a bigger, more muscular car like the Vanquish - i suggest you get to spec savers.

Reading through this thread all i can say is that i won't be discussing or asking opinions of other brands of cars on www.rs6.com (http://www.rs6.com) as this site is very one eyed and its all Audi, Audi, Audi - and thats not me.

As i say, im 100% sure if the R8 had a BMW badge on it, a lot of you lot would have a different opinion. :doh:

I can't speak for everyone, but this last statement is wrong for me at least. I have said on numerous occasions that the M5, 3 Series Coupe, the Z4 all look amazingly good, I might slate their interior design but this I feel is justifiable and their choice of rwd compared to Quattro is a personal thing that after owning two Beemers I felt and still feel that Audi is the better option of the road.

You ask me an brand and I will give an honest answer of what I think of it.

The Aston Martins, I love their design and think their current interior designs especially the DB9 and Vantage are to die for, would I want one, no because I still feel they are for the older person.

BMW, I in general like the Bangle look and I think they make some of the best driving cars around, but I couldn't live with their interiors or the fact that awd isn't an option in the UK with the exception being X3 and X5.

Ferrari, liked them of old, pre 90s but their recent efforts are not to my taste and I personally don't feel they offer value for money compared to Porsche but this again is a personal thing.

Lamborghini, a total waste of time. Audi shouldn't keep the brand and should market their own products in this area as they are the force that has made the company and it's cars what they are today, better handling, reliable and with a quality feel and design. Again a personal thing.

Mercedes, OAPs apply. AMG, power is not the be all and end all without control.

Tell me if I am sounding to bias towards Audi, because I don't think so, I like the R8 and when I see it I don't see a car an less a supercar than a Ferrari, I see an equal in everything but name. The engine in it is regarded as one of the great V8 engines of all time and as for the rest of the mechanics it is basically an improved Gallardo set-up and as for looks well this is an objective thing and as it is currently commanding a £25K premium in the UK market it is being regarded by the so called luxury dealers as the product to have, clearly something that only the best supercars are capable of achieving.:D

[Leadfoot]

I said it was restrained in comparison to the Gallardo...most things are compared to Lambo's! I would call the Vanquish restrained in it's styling too, hence why i asked what your opinions were on this car previously. It's an elegant car rather than shocking like a Lambo.

Taz :thumb:

Agreed with that statement, everything apart from the so called Hypercar are restrained compared to Lamborghinis and that means all of them. But personally this look that Lambo has used for so long is starting to show it's age. This wedge shape has been done to death and things have moved on from the Countach days and before anyone else says it, the same is true for the 911, come on 40years is long enough to say that a revolution is require instead of an evolution.

Sorry AndyBG.

At least Ferrari are trying something different now-a-days, it isn't always successful namely the 612 and to a lesser extent the 430 & 360, but in the 599 I feel Ferrari has found a design that really suits the Prancing Horse and from every angle looks spot on to me.

I now I harp on about this but I feel the R8 is the best design for a mid-engined supercar, sorry junior supercar of all recent designs, it still looks like a proper supercar but is still easy to get in to and out of, it's cabin is spacious and it's interior is both practical and exciting, something that is special to sit in, like a Ferrari or Pagini but not a 997. Would I class it as special inside as a Vantage or DB9, no but it's currently better than the rest and that is saying something for what is a first effort and with the rave reviews it's been getting will possibly be it's last if Porsche get their way.

[AndyBG]

...the same is true for the 911, come on 40years is long enough to say that a revolution is require instead of an evolution.

Sorry AndyBG...

No need to be sorry, that is your opinion. :thumb:

Think that is most interesting to me is, that for very long time now, some 25 years, people are shouting about 911s old design, and old engine lay out, but this car is still selling and gives some big headache to all those ''supercars''.

P.S.

It isn't 40 years old design, it's 44 now ! :thumb:

:cheers:

[Leadfoot]

OK, I see why you are angry but I will explain why I said what I said.

Firstly the Miura, the first mid-engined supercar and the one which started it all, it was one of the prettiest cars ever produced and something I would dearly love to own but sadly a poorly design machine, the fuel tank was over the front axle and the difference in front end grip and handling between full and near empty was plain scary. The Countach, I loved the looks and it's speed, I remember drawing it as a kid and thought it was much more exciting than the Ferrari Boxer but again the thing was a bad handling pig, was this that important at the time, surely all cars didn't handle that great, sorry wrong again, the Lotus Elan and Esprit both were amazing handling cars and truth me they still can show modern cars how to handle. The Diablo was an animal, the thing looked like the devil himself had designed it and at the time is was the epitome of what was a supercar, scary as hell near maximum speed like no other but was a killer to drive with overly heavy controls and impossible to park, in all the years it was in production only at the very end of it's cycle was it ever the car it should have been from the beginning.

Finally the Murcielago and the Gallardo, both cars with Audi input and both cars which handle, perform to the letter not quoting figures which were never achieved and with a quality feel and finish that was worthy of the money asked. If making a car perform better, handle like it should and be more reliable than ever in it's history means they have made Lamborghini less than it should be then clearly I have lost the plot.

I always felt I had a good idea on what made a good car and car company, clearly I must have been wrong.

[HKS786]

No need to be sorry, that is your opinion. :thumb:

Think that is most interesting to me is, that for very long time now, some 25 years, people are shouting about 911s old design, and old engine lay out, but this car is still selling and gives some big headache to all those ''supercars''.

P.S.

It isn't 40 years old design, it's 44 now ! :thumb:

:cheers:

I agree that it can give a headache to other supercars, I just feel that Porsche isnt doing justice to their engineering with their designs. I do think that their designs have character, but I can think of a good few supercars with character that also have more presence and visual appeal. Of course that's just my opinion :thumb:

Also, I feel that the age factor comes into account when we think of the Porsche's presence on the road. I for one think that if Porsche's designs moved on, their cars would have more presence on the road. If the 997 was a revolution in design, I think it would have presence. However we have seen these designs for 44 years as you pointed out...

[Leadfoot]

No need to be sorry, that is your opinion. :thumb:

Think that is most interesting to me is, that for very long time now, some 25 years, people are shouting about 911s old design, and old engine lay out, but this car is still selling and gives some big headache to all those ''supercars''.

P.S.

It isn't 40 years old design, it's 44 now ! :thumb:

:cheers:

Well it's four years older than me and looks a lot better to boot, but I reckon if I had had as many face lifts then I too would look like Brad Pitt. ;)

I think Porsche has produced the car so all that they can't get rid of it, or are scared what effect it would have on it's overall sales. And with good reason.

[HKS786]

Wow, I didnt even notice some of the posts before my last post. To be honest, I think elstimpo simply didnt like this forum because we didnt agree with him. It shocks me that he was mad at people for not respecting his opinion and then when you have to tell him off for the same thing, you get no apology or even acknowledgment of his mistake.

Also, I do understand why he was angry about the lambo thing, but the took it over the top and actually deleted his account. What a character...:lovl:

Oh well people, I guess we're just "one-eyed" monsters :lovl:

[tazsura]

Cor blimey, hadn't realised elstimpo had deleted his account. Bit drastic and a shame. He was very opinionated and didn't like to be wrong (who does?!) but oh well, i suppose he'll spend his time on the other forums that agree with all his views! Probably the Ferrari and Lambo forums.

A shame as I though it was quite a good, if a little heated, thread! Leadie, have to disagree also about the Lambo comments, and the Porsche ones tbh! I love the 911 shape, hope it stays for a while yet!

Taz :asian:

[Leadfoot]

Cor blimey, hadn't realised elstimpo had deleted his account. Bit drastic and a shame. He was very opinionated and didn't like to be wrong (who does?!) but oh well, i suppose he'll spend his time on the other forums that agree with all his views! Probably the Ferrari and Lambo forums.

A shame as I though it was quite a good, if a little heated, thread! Leadie, have to disagree also about the Lambo comments, and the Porsche ones tbh! I love the 911 shape, hope it stays for a while yet!

Taz :asian:

It's a bit sad that a discussion would end in someone deleting their account just because you didn't agree with their opinion.

Taz, what can I say about Lamborghini, it's my opinion of the car and company, up until Audi took control they had no direction and no profit, if giving them this makes their cars all the less for it then it's time to step away and let them fall by the way side because clearly the Lambo fans aren't happy that the company has been now saved from bankruptcy. Sure through history they have play an important role in moulding what supercars are today but you also can't deny that along the way their cars haven't be the best there is to offer in both performance/handling and more importantly quality and reliability.

Regarding Porsche and namely the 911, sure it has been the back bone of the company but as technology and set-ups change the 911 has on a whole sat still and now more than ever with power figures going up and up Porsche have to find a bigger engine capacity to compete. Will this fit in it's current position, lord knows but even if it does the extra weight way out behind the rear axle will increase this gap that is starting to appear between it's out-right grip and control. Anyone who has sampled a Cayman on the track will know that for balance vs grip no 997 comes close and clearly the way forward is to provide this combination in something more expensive like the 997 for Porsche to stay ahead or even in touch with the competition. Sorry if this goes against your own opinions of the 911/997 but it is mine.

As for elstimpo, I hope he will return and except that not everyone has to agree with his opinion for him to get along with everyone, after all we are all adults aren't we. :cheers:

[RussianM3_dude]

Whewww! At least I am still around!!!!

Anyhoo... I think Audi has produced quiet a hybrid in the R8.

Personally I think it looks like an exotic, however everything about it's specs screams sports car. I think that it is also pretty unnecessary except as a technology demonstrator. I mean just because the R8 is very good, will not somehow convince me that the regular A4 is any fun to drive. Also, I think the R8 design will get tiresome soon and will not age very well.

Also, I don't understand why Audi wants to undermine Lambo to such an extent, especially if the V10 R8 will come out.

[Leadfoot]

I agree with almost everything you are said, what is totally amazing to me.

As for the fun in the rest of the range, I think when torque vectoring finally makes it in to the range I believe it will be the last time boring and Audi will be used in the same sentence. Also regarding the R8 design I too think it's life will be short but then again I thought the same of the original TT and yet it still looks fresh.

I am surprised that you seriously feel Audi should be held back from producing spirited machines, Lamborghini hasn't any real form of Motorsport history or success but this is not true of Audi and as such Audi should be producing car that display they abilities and achievements to the full. Audi are on a roll at the minute and regardless of what some might think, they are the company which is producing the exciting and sporty designs, they market share is expanding great than all other German manufacturers and their RS cars are currently regarded as an equal to the mighty M and AMG. If the RS6, TT/S and future R8v10 and RS5 are as good as believed they will I don't see anything that BMW or Mercedes will bring out that can better them.

Sorry if this sounds like I am up Audi's arse but I am looking at it from the current cars being produced and the direction the company is taking.

[RussianM3_dude]

Then Audi needs to get rid of Lambo. I always thought Lambo would be a better fit with BMW rather then the VAGina group.

The net result is some serious "friendly fire" within the group with everybody competing against each other. VW vs Audi vs Lambo vs Porsche (nowdays).

Lamborghini is just such an odd company to own for Volkswagen. Totally doesn't fit within their model ranges. I think Lambo needs to be off loaded and Audi should stop competing with Porsche. It only serves for both companies trying to outdo eachother and spend a lot of money for R&D AND push BMW to begin to think about developing sports cars of their own

[Lateknight]

Then Audi needs to get rid of Lambo. I always thought Lambo would be a better fit with BMW rather then the VAGina group.

The net result is some serious "friendly fire" within the group with everybody competing against each other. VW vs Audi vs Lambo vs Porsche (nowdays).

Lamborghini is just such an odd company to own for Volkswagen. Totally doesn't fit within their model ranges. I think Lambo needs to be off loaded and Audi should stop competing with Porsche. It only serves for both companies trying to outdo eachother and spend a lot of money for R&D AND push BMW to begin to think about developing sports cars of their own

:hihi: The VAGina group..... very amusing..... so true , it just means most people want to get in one.

I think your a little concerned that BMW is getting squeezed a little (all on its lonesome with only mini for company :cry: ) BMW need to think very carefully about developing its own sports car. The market is boyant now, but whose to tell what it will be like in 3/4 years time. Can they afford to take that gamble, just to keep up with the rest.

I think Lambo fits in very well with the VAG(ina) group:hihi: It WOULD have probably suited BMW better, but that didn't happen........ They bought Rover instead...:doh:

The only overlap I think your hinting at is the R8/Gallardo. They both have very healthy order books, so they cannot be taking too many sales from each other.
Rather they are taking more potential sales from other brands outside of the VAG group.
Porsche has its badge (its biggest asset) so there should not be too much concern about them. They survived the Cayenne dilution and came out stronger. Not sure about the look of the new Panamera though. :confused:
I'm sure the city boys will buy them in droves, irrespective of how godawful it looks.
:bye:

I'm now going to delete my account so I cant see what anybodies going to write about me:vhmmm:
I won't come back ever, ever again (sarc)

[Leadfoot]

Hi, dont knock the Panamera. ;)

Back to BMW producing a supercar (sorry elstimpo, old habits) I think the reason we haven't seen one as of yet is their many unsuccessful efforts so far that has given them cold feet. The M1 was a great idea but was way over price for what was a first attempt at a supercar and it wasn't even that fast for the times. Secondly the Z8, OK it wasn't a supercar but it was the price of some and again it's sales fell flat on it's face, the car just wasn't go enough to command the price being asked.

Mark my words, if BMW produce another so called supercar, you can bet your bottom dollar that this time it will be the dog's blocks. But even then with all that has gone before, will there be enough game people to take a chance on getting their fingers burn by the possible resale value.

The R8 vs Gallardo debate. I still say no need of Lambo but if they are to stay in the fold then drop the Gallardo and produce something like a Bentley GT Coupe only with Italian flare and in the same price bracket, that would surely sell a lot better than any Maserati offering. This would pave the way for Audi to produce the R8 in to a market that wouldn't really be stepping on other VAG group toes and offer something that could allow the Audi name to grow as a driver's brand, not just one for making the finest designs and interiors.

[tazsura]

Lambo was in the doldrums when Audi arrived and your absolutely correct in saying that Audi have turned this Co. around. However, before this they had a that mad character that would allow you to put up with all the problems that their cars had. Under Audi, a little of the character may have been lost, but they are a much better product for it.

I hope Audi does not get rid of it. They can co-exist in my eyes. The R8, as good as it is, will not win over the majority of people like our friend elstimpo, and thus Gallardo sales will niot be affected so greatly. Lambo could..and probably will move the Gallardo a notch or too higher in the price and power scale on the new model i feel, further distancing it from the R8.

Taz :cheers:

[tazsura]

:hihi: The VAGina group..... very amusing..... so true , it just means most people want to get in one.



Taz :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[RussianM3_dude]

Or it means they are sloppy, full of estrogene and bleed red ink once in a while.

[Leadfoot]

Lambo was in the doldrums when Audi arrived and your absolutely correct in saying that Audi have turned this Co. around. However, before this they had a that mad character that would allow you to put up with all the problems that their cars had. Under Audi, a little of the character may have been lost, but they are a much better product for it.

I hope Audi does not get rid of it. They can co-exist in my eyes. The R8, as good as it is, will not win over the majority of people like our friend elstimpo, and thus Gallardo sales will not be affected so greatly. Lambo could..and probably will move the Gallardo a notch or too higher in the price and power scale on the new model i feel, further distancing it from the R8.

Taz :cheers:

Taz,

Isn't it interesting that now that elstimpo has gone the whole mood of this tread has changed back to a friend discussion where differences don't end in arguments.:cheers:

As for your very valid points above, sure if the Gallardo goes up high enough in power and price then rightly so the R8 even in V10 form won't effect it. But if it's only a the small increase that is hinted it (550hp) then I am not so sure, but as the R8 will by this time have been on sale for almost a year in V8 form they meaning Audi/Lamborghini will be able to look and see if the R8 has effected the Gallardo's sales and if so make the decision as to how to rectify this and distance the two cars further, especially as the R8v10 will be doing the opposite.

Whats your opinions on this new Ferrari 2+2 that looks like the 599 but will be price below the F430, surely this is the new direction that I was talking about when I said for Lambo to make a Bentley GT type motor with an Italian feel. :brag:

[Lateknight]

this is the new direction that I was talking about when I said for Lambo to make a Bentley GT type motor with an Italian feel.

Could be interesting. :love2: a sort of maserati coupe rival?

One question : RWD or Quattro?

(I think I know the answer to this)

[tazsura]

Yeh, funny that ain't it?

With regards to the Fezza 2+2...i see no reason why this won't be a hot sucess. Cars like Ferrari, Lambo, Aston that can offer that little bit more flexibility with a couple of more seat would always sell i feel. My Dad and I has always loved the 456GT and 612...but the cost of a V12 sends the price through the roof ~£170K. Having a V8 2+2 should make it more tempting to those lucky few who can afford a £100K motor...! (I'll have my fingers crossed for the £88 million euro-draw tonight!)

I doubt it will dilute the brand at all. Lambo i'm sure will already be assessing the situation. I can see an Espada relplacement on the horizon....

Taz :burnout:

[tazsura]

Could be interesting. :love2: a sort of maserati coupe rival?

One question : RWD or Quattro?

(I think I know the answer to this)

Lol..yes..it begins with a 'Q' and ends in and o''....

Taz :mech:

[Leadfoot]

You see, old Leadie isn't as full of shit as elstimpo thought. No doubt many more of you would feel that a Lambo GT 2+2 would be a good idea and this would distance it from the R8 while allowing the Gallardo to move much more up market in terms of power and price, in the same way as Ferrari are now doing with their next F430 replacement.

Like I said, I always felt I had a good idea on what made a good car and car company. ;)

[tazsura]

You see, old Leadie isn't as full of shit as elstimpo thought. No doubt many more of you would feel that a Lambo GT 2+2 would be a good idea and this would distance it from the R8 while allowing the Gallardo to move much more up market in terms of power and price, in the same way as Ferrari are now doing with their next F430 replacement.

Like I said, I always felt I had a good idea on what made a good car and car company. ;)

Maybe he meant "full of GOOD shit"? Lol

Taz :vhmmm:

[Leadfoot]

Maybe he meant "full of GOOD shit"? Lol

Taz :vhmmm:

Well if that was indeed the case.

elstimpo :bow:

[Lateknight]

Hi, dont knock the Panamera. ;) .

Its ....how shall i say.....Quirky looking!
http://www.worldcarfans.com/9070921.005/porsche-panamera-spied-in-spain.

I'm quite confident it will drive very well, and thats most of what should matter in a sports saloon.
A lot of people will be turned of by its looks though.
We shall see.:cool2:




Back to BMW producing a supercar (sorry elstimpo, old habits) I think the reason we haven't seen one as of yet is their many unsuccessful efforts so far that has given them cold feet. .

I've read somewhere that BMW have trademark registered the name 'M10'.

[Leadfoot]

Lateknight,

No mate the reason I was saying not to knock the Panamera was that I happen to have my name already down for one. Also the info I have reckons the the rear end look in WCF isn't the finished example and it will look a lot better than presents seen in the many photoshop images out there.

Another thing about the Panamera, you would be surprised with the amount of names already down for the car, for Porsche this will be a big success of which I hope I will be able to drive for around a year and step out of with little or no loss in value. ;)

[RussianM3_dude]

Taz,

Isn't it interesting that now that elstimpo has gone the whole mood of this tread has changed back to a friend discussion where differences don't end in arguments.:cheers:




Angry, angry young man (or maybe in his late 40s? Would explain an awful lot). For somebody with a hot car and a hot GF, he sure seemed to spend too much time on the internet arguing about not much at all and getting angry all the time.

[stIm]

Ok, guys i let this site for a reason. I e-mailed Erik with these reasons and wished him well with the site.

I look back on this thread now and see piss taking and insults going my way and find you lot quite pathetic. To take the moral high ground and pat each other on the back about how well mannered you are and that the posts are all like friends together, whilst at the same time insulting and taking the piss out of a former member who has no right of reply, is utterly ironic and shows some of you for the people you are.

I left this site because for me personally, there is no reason for me to be here. The credability in my mind of most of the posters on this thread is zero. There are some absurd and ridiculous comments, oh no sorry 'opinions' on this thread that makes this, a place i don't want to be a part of. So i left, simple.

I'm a member on quite a few forums, another Audi forum, Ferrari forum and pistonheads which is open to all. This site is by far the most one eyed site by a mile. The other Audi site i use, had some good, interesting things to say on this subject. People who know what defines a supercar, people who don't rate Audi's because its an Audi, people who know that Lamborghini is one of the most important and historic car makers there has ever been and that it has a cult following with owners and fans 100 times more passionate than you could be about any Audi, BMW etc. Lambo make supercars, Audi makes Euro Box's and sports care - fact. To call the R8 a supercar is so laughable. You guys have no understanding about car makers like Ferrari and Lamborghini are all about, no understanding AT ALL.

The reason i left is because i dont rate or respect the opinions of most on here at all, and therefore its a waste of my time.

To come back on a read the comments made by some about me show you to be the small minded people you are !

ps - RussianM3 dude - you are a cock of the higest order and obviously very jelous. Next time you have something to say about me, why don't you just shut your mouth because i know for a fact if i was standing in front of you you wouldn't dare say it to my face. Pathetic little tosser. Internet really gives little scrots like you some sort of power doesnt it. Sad man

Delete this profile mods, only used it to come back on and defend myself against the comments made about me

[HKS786]

The reason i left is because i dont rate or respect the opinions of most on here at all, and therefore its a waste of my time.

That's just pathetic. Let me get this straight, you left a forum because you cant "respect the opinions of most". Just what do you think a forum is? :doh: I dont think you know what opinion is never mind a forum. Opinion deserves to be respected simply because it is just that. Opinion is the thought/feelings of fellow human beings.

I'll not speak for everyone, but I was totally reasonable with you, but lets look at how you spoke to me:



Guys, i have just come in and im knackered, i really can't be bothered to read through all these posts that tell me my OPINION is wrong. My opinion is just that, my Opinion, i dont give a crap what some bloke on a TV show says...

Im sorry, no one will change my OPINION...

Im going to bed now and wont be coming back to this thread to read how my opinion is wrong again


Well I respect your opinion actually. I might not agree with it always but I do respect it ;)


I agree. In my opinion R8 has more presence. Vanquish doesnt have nowhere near as much. Just my 2p...


You Audi guys crack me up. An R8 has more road presence than an Vanquish :lovl:

Pull the other one, its got bells on it.


I cant for the love of god see how an R8 has more road presence than a bigger, more muscular car like the Vanquish - i suggest you get to spec savers.

:doh: :nono: :eye: :nana:

[RussianM3_dude]

ps - RussianM3 dude - you are a cock of the higest order and obviously very jelous. Next time you have something to say about me, why don't you just shut your mouth because i know for a fact if i was standing in front of you you wouldn't dare say it to my face. Pathetic little tosser. Internet really gives little scrots like you some sort of power doesnt it. Sad man



Of course I am jealous. Who wouldn't be???? Also, I think you should take that "insulting somebody over the internet/internet tough guy" thing to heart since you are the only one doing it.

[Leadfoot]

I have sent a PM in the hope he will come back as to left with a comment like the above doesn't explain anything or add to the confusion as to why he left.


To call the R8 a supercar is so laughable. You guys have no understanding about car makers like Ferrari and Lamborghini are all about, no understanding AT ALL.

I am still a bit confused about this one, if Mr Clarkson who has I reckon had more supercars than most, including yourself. If he reckons the R8 is a supercar then why argue or is it arguing for the sake of it. He too has had the Gallardo, a Ford GT and numerous Ferrari cars, surely if in his opinion it's a better car than the Gallardo he currently owns and cars like the Ford GT and 599 then why is he so wrong. Lets face it, he isn't some uneducated noob who happens to like Audi cars, with the exception of the RS4 and R8 I don't think Audi are even close to being his favourite brand.

I always step back and look at all of the evidence before making an opinion on something and based on what I have seen and read about the R8 everyone with the exception of your good self feels otherwise. But I take on-board your opinion.

[stIm]

Of course I am jealous. Who wouldn't be???? Also, I think you should take that "insulting somebody over the internet/internet tough guy" thing to heart since you are the only one doing it.

next time your in London, say this shit to my face ! The we'll see who the internet tough guy is and you wont be able to hide behind your keyboard scum bag

shut up or put up twat

[Leadfoot]

stIm & RussianM3_dude,

Please stop with the insults and get back to a normal discussion, this is starting to sound like girls fighting in the school yard. Come on guys we are all adults are we not.

[stIm]

I have sent a PM in the hope he will come back as to left with a comment like the above doesn't explain anything or add to the confusion as to why he left.



I am still a bit confused about this one, if Mr Clarkson who has I reckon had more supercars than most, including yourself. If he reckons the R8 is a supercar then why argue or is it arguing for the sake of it. He too has had the Gallardo, a Ford GT and numerous Ferrari cars, surely if in his opinion it's a better car than the Gallardo he currently owns and cars like the Ford GT and 599 then why is he so wrong. Lets face it, he isn't some uneducated noob who happens to like Audi cars, with the exception of the RS4 and R8 I don't think Audi are even close to being his favourite brand.

I always step back and look at all of the evidence before making an opinion on something and based on what I have seen and read about the R8 everyone with the exception of your good self feels otherwise. But I take on-board your opinion.

If Jeremy Clarkson defines cars for you, then thats very sad. He says stuff to shift papaers, mags and bost viewings on TV. He has to say something controversial.

I consider him an entertainer, nothing more

Got you pm, im not staying i simple came back to face those who wanted to have a go at me while my back was turned.

I now have rugby to watch

MOD DELETE THIS USER NAME PLEASE AND DONT WORRY I WONT BE BACK, EVEN IF YOU BACK PATTERS CONTINUE TO SLATE SOMEONE BEHIND THEIR BACK

[RussianM3_dude]

stIm & RussianM3_dude,

Please stop with the insults and get back to a normal discussion, this is starting to sound like girls fighting in the school yard. Come on guys we are all adults are we not.

Your comment is completely unfair for if you review my posts, I have never insulted elstimpo in any way. I have never even adressed him except to say I would like to have a beer with him, for which I was rewarded with lots of abuse. He is the one who accuses me of insulting him from the safety of my computer yet, is ironically the one who insults me.

[Leadfoot]

Sorry mate that you feel this way, I think to turn your back on a discussion is to feel you aren't winning and best to stop. Sure JC is an entertainer but that don't to say that his comments aren't based in fact, I have meet the guy a few times and he always came across as a will informed bloke and regardless of what you think car manufacturers value his opinion which I know this to be true.

[Leadfoot]

Your comment is completely unfair for if you review my posts, I have never insulted elstimpo in any way. I have never even adressed him except to say I would like to have a beer with him, for which I was rewarded with lots of abuse. He is the one who accuses me of insulting him from the safety of my computer yet, is ironically the one who insults me.

Sorry I was trying to calm things down and show that these comments weren't going anywhere, it wasn't meant to be classed as a dig at either of you. :cheers:

[HKS786]

MOD DELETE THIS USER NAME PLEASE AND DONT WORRY I WONT BE BACK, EVEN IF YOU BACK PATTERS CONTINUE TO SLATE SOMEONE BEHIND THEIR BACK

Nice. You ignored me again. You know, your first mistake was not being able to "respect" or handle opinions. The second mistake is not acknowledging your mistake and walking away. :doh:

[RussianM3_dude]

Sorry I was trying to calm things down and show that these comments weren't going anywhere, it wasn't meant to be classed as a dig at either of you. :cheers:

Well you should really tell that to the other poster, since I didn't do anything untoward. Calling somebody an "angry young man" is hardly an insult, especially in view of what is directed at me.

[LamboM]

My God .
What did a simple question do to this place?
It got out of control.
And elstimpo banned?
Would someone please explain to me how the hell did all of this happen?

[Lateknight]

Can re-iterate that I would still take the Gallardo (getting back on topic)



..and if anybody disagrees, they are free to 'physically discuss it' in any pub carpark in Nottingham :(


(Joking):hihi:

[RussianM3_dude]

My God .
What did a simple question do to this place?
It got out of control.
And elstimpo banned?
Would someone please explain to me how the hell did all of this happen?

No, he got petulant that we do not bow down to his opinions and deleted his own account.

[HKS786]

My God .
What did a simple question do to this place?
It got out of control.
And elstimpo banned?
Would someone please explain to me how the hell did all of this happen?

You be the judge :lovl:

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showpost.php?p=108614&postcount=143

[Leadfoot]

No, he got petulant that we do not bow down to his opinions and deleted his own account.

Well said. :thumb:


by Lateknight
Can re-iterate that I would still take the Gallardo (getting back on topic)



..and if anybody disagrees, they are free to 'physically discuss it' in any pub carpark in Nottingham :(


(Joking):hihi:

The point that elstimpo forgot to put in his original post was whether the option of cars were your only mode of transport. If the answer was yes then I can only pick the R8, but if the answer had of been no then I don't know, it would have been a hard decision between the R8 and the Gallardo as the Ferrari will never get my vote, to over priced with not enough substance.

But in the end the head would win and I would still take the R8 as £40K is better in my pocket than some dealer's and you can do a hack of a lot of tuning for £10K and have something that's better to drive, looks as sharp, will turn as many heads, will be more reliable and be quicker to boot while still saving £30K.

What ever way you slice it, the R8 is hard to go pass it as the best choice........period. :thumb:

[BroddvonBronto]

I'd take the G over the others, it ahs spectacular lines/design, sounds amazing and flies by the competition on a track. G ftw!!

[LamboM]

Well said. :thumb:



The point that elstimpo forgot to put in his original post was whether the option of cars were your only mode of transport. If the answer was yes then I can only pick the R8, but if the answer had of been no then I don't know, it would have been a hard decision between the R8 and the Gallardo as the Ferrari will never get my vote, to over priced with not enough substance.

But in the end the head would win and I would still take the R8 as £40K is better in my pocket than some dealer's and you can do a hack of a lot of tuning for £10K and have something that's better to drive, looks as sharp, will turn as many heads, will be more reliable and be quicker to boot while still saving £30K.

What ever way you slice it, the R8 is hard to go pass it as the best choice........period. :thumb:
Leatfoot, you forgot the point of the thread, it sais:
Reliability price ETC... aside!
Besides , if you can afford a 100k car , there will be no problem upgrading it with 10k, agree?

But if the R8 is your choice , I won't even try to convince you it's Your choise,
and hopefuly it'll come true.
I wish the same to all of you, may all your greatest dreams come true.

[LamboM]

You be the judge :lovl:

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showpost.php?p=108614&postcount=143

Huh , He seemes nice at first .
You know?! you think you know someone...

Deleted his account?
Well I hope he'll be happier in his new community.

[RussianM3_dude]

Huh , He seemes nice at first .
You know?! you think you know someone...



You be the judge.


"next time your in London, say this shit to my face ! The we'll see who the internet tough guy is and you wont be able to hide behind your keyboard scum bag

shut up or put up twat"<!-- / message -->

[LamboM]

You be the judge.


"next time your in London, say this shit to my face ! The we'll see who the internet tough guy is and you wont be able to hide behind your keyboard scum bag

shut up or put up twat"<!-- / message -->

Dude what's wrong with you?
I was talking about elstimpo .
You said it yourself , "No, he got petulant that we do not bow down to his opinions"
does this seems like a nice guy to you?
Calm down and contain your language .

[RussianM3_dude]

Dude, I was QUOTING Elstimpo. Look at the previous page. That's what HE said to ME. I never lower myself to crass language while hiding behind a computer.

[Leadfoot]

Leatfoot, you forgot the point of the thread, it sais:
Reliability price ETC... aside!
Besides , if you can afford a 100k car , there will be no problem upgrading it with 10k, agree?

I know he talked about value and running cost etc. but the reality is that even if you have the money to purchase such cars you don't throw money away lightly and value, running cost, resale, reliability etc do come in to consideration.

I know he and I didn't agree on things like Ferrari and what a supercar was but at the end he was very abusive to myself and others because we didn't agree with his thinking and after checking my replies to his own, never was I once abusive back, a disagreement is not being abusive but not obviously didn't feel that way.

Clearly it was him with the problem and not us and in an case a bit of friendly banter is all part of the enjoyment of the site....is it not.
:cheers:

[LamboM]

Well clarckson ownes a gallrdo spyder.
Did you hear him complain about it?
No!
he complained about the ford GT , time will say if it's reliable to him, but I am quite confident it is.

Did I ever said the problem is with any of you?
Clearly he was the problem, I saw his replies from what HKS786 showed me.
I asked how it happen, I didn't accuse anybody, I do now - elstimpo .

[Leadfoot]

Well clarckson ownes a gallrdo spyder.
Did you hear him complain about it?
No!


My point exactly, yet elstimpo said that Lambo fans were complaining that Audi had destroyed what Lamborghini was. I don't know how many TVR owners have had times spent by the side of the road waiting recovery services. Sorry but I can't see any of them complaining if someone like Audi had taken them over and in the process of making them reliable and profitable that they had lose a little of their specialness then surely that can be put up with if the brand is still there.

Maybe my opinion is wrong.

[RussianM3_dude]

Reliable is good, however FIAT managed to make Ferrari reliable without turning it into Porsche. The Gallardo has basically a cross between a TT and an RS4 interior.
Also, there is too much technology cross sharing. RS4 has Gallardo steering wheel and brakes. S6 has the Gallardo engine. Audi also undermines the range by using Lambo tech to build cheaper versions of their cars, like the R8.

[stIm]

Dude, I was QUOTING Elstimpo. Look at the previous page. That's what HE said to ME. I never lower myself to crass language while hiding behind a computer.

Yet again i come on here and your shooting your mouth off. You stir trouble, make smart ass comments and say things you would never dare say to my face. Your pathetic and a coward. A perfect example of an Internet Warrior.

Do you know what 'put up or shut up' means? It means stop shooting your big mouth off if you don't have the courage to front up, be a man and have the guts to say this to my face - i have already told you i would gladly give you the opportunity.

either Stop making comments from behind your keyboard you coward or front up.

Simple

[stIm]

yet elstimpo said that Lambo fans were complaining that Audi had destroyed what Lamborghini was. .

Ok then, tell me. How unreliable were Diablo's, Muira, Countach ?? Find a forum where there are ACTUAL owners and you'll see that well looked after cars are as reliable, in fact in a lot of cases more reliable than Gallardo's and Murci's.

Its mostly the modern clutch's and electronics that go wrong on 'Audi' Lambo's, problems that past Lambo's never had

[stIm]

I asked how it happen, I didn't accuse anybody, I do now - elstimpo .

Predictable post from a member on this forum, blame everyone else but yourselves and pat yourself's on the back whilst stil slating another person.

Way to take the moral high ground. Very intelligent

[stIm]

.

Clearly it was him with the problem and not us and in an case a bit of friendly banter is all part of the enjoyment of the site....is it not.
:cheers:

Show me where i was abusive to you or any member with the exception of the coward and internet warrior russian m3 twat

ps - when your looking for examples of my abuse, please make sure it is in the definition of abuse

[RussianM3_dude]

Sjow me where I was an "internet warrior". I never said anything insulting about you. You were the one that started it all. I never called you names.

[Leadfoot]

Show me where i was abusive to you or any member with the exception of the coward and internet warrior russian m3 twat

ps - when your looking for examples of my abuse, please make sure it is in the definition of abuse


Oh jesus christ, thats it, all credability for this forum destroyed in one thread.
What a pile of shite you have come out with there.

No proper car enthusiast would ever make comments like you have.

Like I said this was my only opinion based on the fact that Audi had produced a better version of the Gallardo in the form of the R8, I know you disagree with this but it was my opinion. I didn't say to kill the brand or company, only it's use in the VAG was not really required.

The words a pile of shit was directed at me and me alone, so basically in your opinion I talk a pile of shit. How more abusive can you get than that. Never did I said anything against you and when I felt early on in the thread you might have thought so, I apologise just in case.

I hope you can mend bridges with some of the other members and continue to post on this site, as for myself, mate I haven't a problem with you and hope our differences can be put behind us. But when asked what happened I do feel that I should reply and state what I reckon transpired.

In any case, welcome back.:cheers:

[RussianM3_dude]

If anybody is playing internet tough guy it's elstimpo. He is being rude, petulant and acting like a 3 year old, who's Mom refuses to buy him a toy truck.

[stIm]

If anybody is playing internet tough guy it's elstimpo. He is being rude, petulant and acting like a 3 year old, who's Mom refuses to buy him a toy truck.

Nice one coward, keep up the smart ass comments. One of these days you might grow some balls and a backbone you gutless clown.

Your all talk, nothing more little boy.

[stIm]

Like I said this was my only opinion based on the fact that Audi had produced a better version of the Gallardo in the form of the R8, I know you disagree with this but it was my opinion. I didn't say to kill the brand or company, only it's use in the VAG was not really required.

The words a pile of shit was directed at me and me alone, so basically in your opinion I talk a pile of shit. How more abusive can you get than that. Never did I said anything against you and when I felt early on in the thread you might have thought so, I apologise just in case.

I hope you can mend bridges with some of the other members and continue to post on this site, as for myself, mate I haven't a problem with you and hope our differences can be put behind us. But when asked what happened I do feel that I should reply and state what I reckon transpired.

In any case, welcome back.:cheers:

I think i have reffered to something as a pile of shite on 4 or 5 different occasions today ! If pile of shite is something you take serious offence to , then i can't help that, but its not a term i'd find offensive.

PC world gone mad :nana:

By the way, is that it?? Is that you evidence that i sent abuse in your direction??? Give me strength

[RussianM3_dude]

Your all talk, nothing more little boy.

As oposed to no talk, all action like you???? You're all talk yourself there buddy, hiding behind the computer, saying big words, at least I am polite.

Don't take this as an offence, but I think you have anger problems. You are always swearing, slamming the door after you run out of the room and just plain being juvenile "come over and I'll beat you up". Yeah, like I am going to drop my work, buy an airplane ticket and go to London just to meet you. You know this and that's why you are being a tough guy. I bet you wouldn't say these things If I lived in London. For all you know I may be Nikolai Valuev's body double and have a dozen angry Albanian thug friends.

If you are however like this in real life, I hope not, but I think you will run into real trouble sometime. I had a friend like that, same attitude as you. Well, eventually he got stomped real bad. He was always like "did you just step on my foot??? .........Oh sorry dude, I didn't mean to....... Try again b******d..." fighting ensued. One day, he just got his comeuppance.

So my advice, drink a cup of cammomile tea, take a deap breath and let's all be civil to each other.

[stIm]

As oposed to no talk, all action like you???? You're all talk yourself there buddy, hiding behind the computer, saying big words, at least I am polite.

Don't take this as an offence, but I think you have anger problems. You are always swearing, slamming the door after you run out of the room and just plain being juvenile "come over and I'll beat you up". Yeah, like I am going to drop my work, buy an airplane ticket and go to London just to meet you. You know this and that's why you are being a tough guy. I bet you wouldn't say these things If I lived in London. For all you know I may be Nikolai Valuev's body double and have a dozen angry Albanian thug friends.

If you are however like this in real life, I hope not, but I think you will run into real trouble sometime. I had a friend like that, same attitude as you. Well, eventually he got stomped real bad. He was always like "did you just step on my foot??? .........Oh sorry dude, I didn't mean to....... Try again b******d..." fighting ensued. One day, he just got his comeuppance.

So my advice, drink a cup of cammomile tea, take a deap breath and let's all be civil to each other.

My god your full more full of shit than i thought. Thanks for your little Bull shit story.

Again, your a coward little boy, you shoot your mouth off , you should be man enough to say it to my face. If your ever in London i will give you the opportunity to do just that and if i ever have to go to the hole that is Switzerland, again, i'll give you the opportunity. ok clown ?

I take exception to internet big mouths. The only time i fight is in a ring, twice a week while kickboxing, tmrw morning i'll be thinking the other guy is you.

Do i have to say put up or shut up again clown ?

COWARD

[Leadfoot]

This thread has got out of hand and is not what I would expect from either you (RussianM3_dude) or stIm (elstimpo), seriously guys catch a grip.

stIm, I thought you didn't want to come back and wanted your account deleted, but when you came back I thought you had had a chill-out period and had come to reason. Sadly this is not the case from your most recent replies.

And RussianM3_dude, you have recently started to post some well informed and respected relies, get yourself back on track and don't fall in to the trap.

[stIm]

This thread has got out of hand and is not what I would expect from either you (RussianM3_dude) or stIm (elstimpo), seriously guys catch a grip.

stIm, I thought you didn't want to come back and wanted your account deleted, but when you came back I thought you had had a chill-out period and had come to reason. Sadly this is not the case from your most recent replies.

And RussianM3_dude, you have recently started to post some well informed and respected relies, get yourself back on track and don't fall in to the trap.

I'm only back on this forum to defend myself against the back stabbers and to give this little clown the chance to grow some balls !

Nothing more

[RussianM3_dude]

Look, I am trying to offer a truce here, while elstimpo posts what is borderline threats. I think I have nothing to apologize here.

[Leadfoot]

I'm only back on this forum to defend myself against the back stabbers and to give this little clown the chance to grow some balls !

Nothing more

Well I reckon if your not here to stay.:bye: Because there is no point to you bring here, you are not happy to someone having a different opinion to yourself and regardless of what you think you have been abusive to a number of fellow members. You might not think so but I reckon an apology is in order.

[HKS786]

Well I reckon if your not here to stay.:bye: Because there is no point to you bring here, you are not happy to someone having a different opinion to yourself and regardless of what you think you have been abusive to a number of fellow members. You might not think so but I reckon an apology is in order.

I agree. I cant really believe that he came back to tell us he cant respect fellow human being's opinions. :vhmmm::confused: He then goes on to swear and get angry for no good reason. I think he should just delete his account if he wont say sorry and face up to his mistakes like a man

[stIm]

Well I reckon if your not here to stay.:bye: Because there is no point to you bring here, you are not happy to someone having a different opinion to yourself and regardless of what you think you have been abusive to a number of fellow members. You might not think so but I reckon an apology is in order.

No apology will be coming from me anytime soon. No apology is warranted. Abuse is obviously like the term 'supercar' and open to interpretation. I haven't been abusive to anyone except the clown. Besides if i have been 'abusive' to anyone other than the clown, and need to apologise - where is my apology from the back stabbers ????

Hypocrites.

Clown - you think your clever by starting a post with your usual smart ass BS and ending it with a 'lets get along' crap. Shove it where the sun don't shine boy

[stIm]

I cant really believe that he came back to tell us he cant respect fellow human being's opinions.

Can you people read? I said i don't respect your views not i can't. Big difference there people.

[Audihead]

Well, yet another thread I need to shut down. I understand that automobiles are a very subjective topic to say the least. But, here we go again. I don't like to restrict freedom of speech, but name calling and just complete off topic crap I do not condone. Truly, how old are we? Can we not have a gentlemens' discussion about certain topics? I have shut this down in hopes that people will calm down and come to their senses on their own and we can continue as a cohesive automotive community whatever the makes we like. If we can't, I will shut threads down even sooner. I believe I am with the Admin of this site in the fact that we do not want this to become like AW. We are a class act and hope to remain this way.

-Audihead