The Ring time for the M3 V8 is expected to be:

[Erik]

8.03

A friend of mine asked Horst von Saurma after he drove it.

Cup tires and squeeling brakes :hihi:

[Leadfoot]

Horst does seem capable of getting his while in BMWs. So chances are he will be able to achieve the desire time in the M3. ;)

[Speedou]

8.03

A friend of mine asked Horst von Saurma after he drove it.

Cup tires and squeeling brakes :hihi:


Very good time. Now let see what CSL can do. Cup tires is nowadays standard and squeeling brakes means hard pads so the brakes doesn't fade. Nothing to compare ceramics on RS.

[audi_ch]

what if heard, the cup tyres are still not available for puplic if you order your m3... and also the racing brakes (so called in german) witch the use on the m3 doing the laps togehter with the mb clk black series.

You see witch effort bmw is gonna make to put a good time on the ns.

Buy the way, the racing brakes, are quit a bit better than the normal one, but sounds horrible all time.

And for all, the ceramic brakes used on the rs4 doesnt brake any better then the normal one, just live longer without any fading.

[7:53 RS6]

what if heard, the cup tyres are still not available for puplic if you order your m3... and also the racing brakes (so called in german) witch the use on the m3 doing the laps togehter with the mb clk black series.

You see witch effort bmw is gonna make to put a good time on the ns.

Buy the way, the racing brakes, are quit a bit better than the normal one, but sounds horrible all time.

And for all, the ceramic brakes used on the rs4 doesnt brake any better then the normal one, just live longer without any fading.

The reason there are many diffrent pad compound to chose from when racing....well its not exactly for getting lower laptimes:hahahehe:
Could you imagin standing in the shop......well give me a pad that cut 2 sec of my laptime on the ring:jlol: There are many compound to chose from, but they have not made them like this to cut time on laptimes, there are other reasons.
By the way there are 10 other reasons more logical on a lap on the ring that will cut time or not, rather than what pad you got on:applause:

Now even a proffessional would even have a problem to differ lap times based on even a whole brake setup change. Like to drive a stock M3 E92 vs a E92 whit a whole new rotors and caliper etc, well even this it will be hard to point out the gains or loses regarding just the laptime based on this change.

As well there are no one that are sure if the pads on this car was stock or not!
What ever it dont make a diffrens regarding time on one lap on the ring.

[audi_ch]

not many words ar needed, if i have brakes witch are able to break in 33 or 32 meters down from 100 to zero instead of 37 meters, and you take the amount of braking you have to do on the ns lap, you will see what it makes for i time gain.

and yes i know it there were racing brakes on it, and till know you cant order them on your new m3. Was on the ring as well, when hvS drove the clk and m3, saw them the whole day. maybee you have been there aswell, but then you havent look close enough on the car...

I personally think it is not correct to send a public car to puplic test in specification witch public people cant buy it. Nor cup tyres, nor racing brakes.

[Leadfoot]

Horst does seem capable of getting his while in BMWs. So chances are he will be able to achieve the desire time in the M3. ;)

I just realised that i had left out an important couple of words in my comment.

Horst does seem more capable of getting his best while in BMWs. So chances are he will be able to achieve the desired time in the M3. ;)

Hopefully this might explain what I think about Auto Sport and Horst von Saurma. ;)

[artur777]

M3 is a very potent car indeed with its 8:03 time.
Don't you know the time of C63 AMG?
It should be somewhere in this area also.

And with M-DCT M3 will post even better times due to better gearing and faster shifting...

[Speedou]

I personally think it is not correct to send a public car to puplic test in specification witch public people cant buy it. Nor cup tyres, nor racing brakes.

You can order it with cup tires why not? If it is not on the optional list, just say it to your seller. Can't be a problem. Same with the pads. But anyway I see your point there. It wouldn't be fair to compare M3 without cup tires, would it?

[7:53 RS6]

not many words ar needed, if i have brakes witch are able to break in 33 or 32 meters down from 100 to zero instead of 37 meters, and you take the amount of braking you have to do on the ns lap, you will see what it makes for i time gain.

and yes i know it there were racing brakes on it, and till know you cant order them on your new m3. Was on the ring as well, when hvS drove the clk and m3, saw them the whole day. maybee you have been there aswell, but then you havent look close enough on the car...

I personally think it is not correct to send a public car to puplic test in specification witch public people cant buy it. Nor cup tyres, nor racing brakes.


To make it short, you will not shorten your braking distance whit a slightly diffrent pad compound. Try to put a logging system in you car and show me how to shorten the braking distance whit 2 meters by using a diffrent pad only.

Diffrent compound pads is there for many reasons to use, but hardly to cut laptimes or distance in braking. Even a bigger system like bigger rotors an bigger calipers whit many pot will not accually make a very big diffrence in braking distance. But hey it will last over time and it could handel heat in a better way.

A stock singel pot CSL caliper is braking as superb as a 996 GT3 Mk2 RS, there is very diffrent calipers and brakes(many pots in GT3) singel in CSL etc, still they brake the same distance from speed, even CSL make a shorter distance.

As well to remember it takes more from the CSL driver to work whit in the maginals of its braking system as its smaller, as in the porsches you could get away whit being a lousy driver it still will work. If you are a smuck driver in CSL, yes it could be some fading issues. But if you know how to drive, well even small CSL rotors and calipers will out brake even GT3 RS 996.

By the way do you know how many times you hit the breake peal on the ring? Its quite many times accually as its a 20.8km track. Imagin to take of 2meaters on every braking point as you say, well that would shorten down the track quite some bit will you not agree? I would love to buy that pad.

I wounder how many seconds 40 extra hp or 60 will shorten down a lap time on the ring?

[7:53 RS6]

not many words ar needed, if i have brakes witch are able to break in 33 or 32 meters down from 100 to zero instead of 37 meters, and you take the amount of braking you have to do on the ns lap, you will see what it makes for i time gain.

and yes i know it there were racing brakes on it, and till know you cant order them on your new m3. Was on the ring as well, when hvS drove the clk and m3, saw them the whole day. maybee you have been there aswell, but then you havent look close enough on the car...

I personally think it is not correct to send a public car to puplic test in specification witch public people cant buy it. Nor cup tyres, nor racing brakes.

Are you sure that this car could not come from shops as it was tested?
Thats the whole point whit the Sport Auto test, straight from shop to test.
Do you mean that you can see thats its a diffrent pad than stock on the car or did Horst tell you so?. I guess you came right after he put them on then, as if he had driven the pad you can hardly see if its an other pad in the they all look the same when dust on. How do you know its not a stock pad anyway?

[audi_ch]

ask your bmw dealer about cup tyres, he wont have an idee about what you speak. till now you just get your m3 with the special developed mimmelin tyres for the new m3.
Actuelly bmw went the same way as porsche to develop tyres for a special type of car.
That is by the way a reason why porsches have normaly good braking results (this info comes from a developing person from bosch system, the develop the abs system for high performance cars, )

anyway back on topics, so if, as some people her say there is no difference about racing brakes, why does the m3 on severel test use them, and way, you cant order your car with them from bmw.Actuelly they had those brakes in spain as well at the press launtch event.

And just for the m3 csl driver, i know what i saw, and i know with who i spoke on the ring, and dont tell me what good brakes are able to do on the ring, i spent many days there having good fun, and spending nice amount of cash into my cars, to have them performed like i want to. Hope you have been there as well, but maybee the way from swedin is too long.

[7:53 RS6]

:lovl:
ask your bmw dealer about cup tyres, he wont have an idee about what you speak. till now you just get your m3 with the special developed mimmelin tyres for the new m3.
Actuelly bmw went the same way as porsche to develop tyres for a special type of car.
That is by the way a reason why porsches have normaly good braking results (this info comes from a developing person from bosch system, the develop the abs system for high performance cars, )

anyway back on topics, so if, as some people her say there is no difference about racing brakes, why does the m3 on severel test use them, and way, you cant order your car with them from bmw.Actuelly they had those brakes in spain as well at the press launtch event.

And just for the m3 csl driver, i know what i saw, and i know with who i spoke on the ring, and dont tell me what good brakes are able to do on the ring, i spent many days there having good fun, and spending nice amount of cash into my cars, to have them performed like i want to. Hope you have been there as well, but maybee the way from swedin is too long.

Apparently you dont know my BMW contacts:hihi:
you read to much mags. Just beccuse you are one of those guys spending much money on you car, uppgrading it as you say. You are not even close to take a regular BMW stock 3 series to its limit on the ring, but still you build up a car thats better than Porsche and M build them. I seen your many times on the ring, I mean your kind.
We have accually made test whit a stock CSL whit 2 proffessionals driving as well a hobbydriver as my selv. We drove slicks as well as r-compoud on a small 2.4km track for 2 days, logging it all. We drove stock CSL pads even whit slicks as well we drove other race compound pads, guess what its very diffrent to drive diffrent pads and a smuck driver cold get scared driving a softe stock pad, and a smuck driver would fade out a stock pad more easy, a god driver dont.

But still a stock pad will brake the car down very god even the pad is feeling softer and the pedal travel is longer due to a non heat resistent softer pad. I dont see any diffrent laptimes on my logging divice using diffrent pads. But hey the stock pads do wear out faster, as well dont provide the confidence as well their braking force is not as thrustworthy if you happen to outbrake your self, as well the stock pad is not the same in mouldulation a stock pad is not that consistent. A racepad is more consisten, doing the same thing time after time when hot, some stock pads dont. Still it would not effect a lap on the ring what pad you drive. Sure if you drive 24h, it would effect time as you go to pit all time as stock pads wear fast.
There are so many things that effect a lap time on a long track like the ring, what are you made of, how many test do you think a proffessional race driver would nead to do, to lap to come to a conclution that it was just the pad and nothing else that did cut or gain his time by 2 seconds on the lap.
We drove a short 2.4km track, even then its hard to be consistand in you driving, even for the pro. still ouer lap times was no diffrences as we could see.
Let me tell you that the pros was putting down fast laps on slicks in my CSL on stock pads, guess what still no fade and no slower times. But way diffrent to drive the diffrent pads. The way most hobbydrivers drive, sure why not have a more heat resistent pad, to make em last and tranfer confidens while they are overbraking the system. And yes most drivers in VLN are not proffessionals, they done get money to drive.....they pay to even sitt in a VLN race car.
Horst is a god driver and he will do fine on a stock pad, a smuck might fade out, but hardly on the ring in one or to laps. Sure you fit racepads, diffrent compound materials to fit diffrent drivers and if to last in a long run or sprint race.

But hey if you got pads that alone will cut 10sec from my ring lap time, i will buy them, still i driven most pads out there and yet not found the pad that cut my lap time by only being a other compound material.
Who nead r-compound or HP, hand out the special pads, you will be rich.

Ps you nead to be a very talented driver to make use of a singel pad compound and by that alone be sure this cut time on that long lap of 20.8km.
Sure a very talented driver might take benefit from a lighter bigger in total(rotor and caliper, depending on car) brake setup, but not likely 1 singel pad.

What about the other way around, the pad is so grippy and god in delivering stopping power, so you as a hobbydriver would accually go slower on the lap:hahahehe:

[Erik]

Horst does seem more capable of getting his best while in BMWs. So chances are he will be able to achieve the desired time in the M3. ;)


Very wrong IMO. :nono:

[audi_ch]

so first at all i think it is not the point to get personal here, nor do i, if mistaken by writting, then sorry, but so i wish to be treaten by any body else.

We have different opinions, so whats the point. i never said i am a good driver, never, i try to do my very best, to push my limits in the circonstances i am able to. And i do have fun with my cars and there for willing to spend money on my hobby.

I have no ideas to your bmw contacts, but i suggest that you dont have stright acces to garching, maybee i am wrong, than even better for you.

Last year i spent almost 2000km on the ns. For me thats a lot of time, but it is worth. I know other people do mutch more, but also others mutch less.

But i would never judge other people and say what skills they have ore not have, it is just rubish and doesnt belong here.
you can have on other opinion but dont try it to convince me on your opinion. i made my opinon concerning race breaking on what kind of chances i made on my cars, and there were massiv differences on normal brakes or so called racing brakes, and i do think if you get a couple of seconds differences just with using other brakes, thats a lot. and finaly that counts for my. And i still do think that a difference brake setup on the m3 affects the time witch will be atchieved on a track specially if the track is 20,6 or 20,8 km long.

[skratch]

throw on the ceramics that the rs4 uses and were all set.Bmw used a harder pad to limit brake fade.The pads wont make a huge difference,if any at all.It takes bigger calipers,rotors and bigger pistons to add greater braking power.Pads are just pads.They wont make a huge difference.

[OfftheHeZie]

So the M3 Cup strikes again huh?.. :rs4addict

[Leadfoot]

Very wrong IMO. :nono:

You may be right but you also have to look at the evidence for my opinion, new M3 vs R8, both are posting 8:03 on the ring in the hands of Horst von Saurma and yet every other test that puts these two cars together the difference between they is vast and this includes lateral G results, everything.

I only doing a Sherlock Homes here.

[7:53 RS6]

so first at all i think it is not the point to get personal here, nor do i, if mistaken by writting, then sorry, but so i wish to be treaten by any body else.

We have different opinions, so whats the point. i never said i am a good driver, never, i try to do my very best, to push my limits in the circonstances i am able to. And i do have fun with my cars and there for willing to spend money on my hobby.

I have no ideas to your bmw contacts, but i suggest that you dont have stright acces to garching, maybee i am wrong, than even better for you.

Last year i spent almost 2000km on the ns. For me thats a lot of time, but it is worth. I know other people do mutch more, but also others mutch less.

But i would never judge other people and say what skills they have ore not have, it is just rubish and doesnt belong here.
you can have on other opinion but dont try it to convince me on your opinion. i made my opinon concerning race breaking on what kind of chances i made on my cars, and there were massiv differences on normal brakes or so called racing brakes, and i do think if you get a couple of seconds differences just with using other brakes, thats a lot. and finaly that counts for my. And i still do think that a difference brake setup on the m3 affects the time witch will be atchieved on a track specially if the track is 20,6 or 20,8 km long.

Well sorry if i got personal, not my intention relly.
Clearly we got diffrent thinking.
But still a fast driver is not exaktly braking his way around the ring. Sure he will use them but not hard. No a fast driver on the ring is not braking that much, if he was he would not be fast.
A fast driver is not pulling his max braking G coming in to Swedenkrytz over the bump at ap 250 GPS speed, he is carrying his speed in to the cOrners using the grip of the car. Even at a scary place the offcamber left Swedenkrytz bend.

He will not pull his highest braking G down the foxhole at ap 250 GPS speed, no he will be pulling minor braking G, as he will use the upphill after compressin to as well brake the car, a fast driver will carry speed whit him all way.
He will not reach max braking G at the same place the hobbydrivers will do.
What pad a fast driver will have on a lap a singel lap or or to on the ring to get a time is not importent. Its more importent that the overall lap go well, whit not to many driver misstakes, so many thing could affect one singel lap on the long track.

In the end try to logg your selv on a ring lap, then after if you come in to pit and it differ 3 seconds among stock and other pad you try. Well i think you will have a hard time to accually say well the first lap i got the aftermaket pad, and thats why I was 3 seconds faster. In the end the full lap is 20.8km there could been other reaon why you drove faster in one of the laps, it could be so easy that you was using the throttel moore this lap:cheers:

On a 2km track its more easy to repeat the same things all way round, not that easy on 20.8km track.

How will you explain if you got a 3 sec differ among 2 laps was due to a singel pad. For all we know you could have been sideways all tru Icecurve, that might be the reason you was slower in one of the lap?

Even proffessionals have a very hard time to be consistent on a long ring lap. Horst von Saurma is no pro, sure he might benefit from a whole new suspension kit, as well from 40+ Hp or slicks etc, he miht do that, as well you and me might do that. But to benefit from a singel pad regading laptime, well i know it would be hard, at least to prove it:thumb: .

Well if BMW have put on more heat resistant pads on presscars, well i can see why, those press guys are very talented to fade brakes(not talking about Horst).
In my world the reason if this pad thing is tru, well the reason would be to not gett a lot of negative press as smuck reporters cant drive(not saying all, but some and those are often the one fading) and they fade out every braking system all time and wright home about it. Not strange the way some of them drive, trying to take a world record in braking while they are at track, there is no pont doing that if you want to go fast.

Well whit diffrent more heat resistant pads on, well less bad publicity. If this pad thing is tru(i have no ide), im sure its not on the car to make it go faster on a lap some where:cheers: Its just a singel pad.......................:bye:

[masa^^]

And the point with cups, BMW was tested with cups which do not come straight from the factory, so what. RS4 was also tested with cups and I have understood that it won´t either come with cups from the factory.

[Erik]

RS4 was also tested with cups and I have understood that it won´t either come with cups from the factory.

Wrong, it is possible to get the RS4 with the Pirelli Corsas from the factory, as well as Sports Suspension and Ceramic brakes.

[masa^^]

Okay, my bad. But still it´s time is with r-compound which is comparable with m3´s time

[Leadfoot]

Wrong, it is possible to get the RS4 with the Pirelli Corsas from the factory, as well as Sports Suspension and Ceramic brakes.

Agreed but why not test the car in the form that most people will purchase. I would reckon that 99% of RS4s will not be bought with ceramics or Corsas tyres, but if the M3 is to be offered these tyres solely with it's 19" alloys option then chances are the majority will be purchased with this.

P.S.

The M3 was on FifthGear last night and I must say it was a very impressive showing with Mr Needle put up. Never before have I seen powerslides so well done, clearly BMW and the M3 haven't lost their touch.;)

[OfftheHeZie]

Was the official lap time of the RS4 done with r-compound?...

~Mason

[Erik]

Agreed but why not test the car in the form that most people will purchase.

Well, how do you think the cars are configured once they reach Nordschleife?

R-tires are on most cars, ceramics perhaps not but wouldn't change the lap time a lot on NS.

[Leadfoot]

Well, how do you think the cars are configured once they reach Nordschleife?

R-tires are on most cars, ceramics perhaps not but wouldn't change the lap time a lot on NS.

So Erik, you are basically saying that Audi sent the RS4 with all of the above that was to be tested by Sport Auto. It's not hard to understand why because it will be the quickest format for the job but if I was Sport Auto I will want to test the car in it's most common set-up and clearly that wouldn't be the one which was used.

This is something that has always bugged me with roadtests, why test a set-up that only 1% of the public will purchase, in truth it isn't a test of any real relevance. This is only my opinion but I reckon I am not alone on this thought. :brag:

[Erik]

This is something that has always bugged me with roadtests, why test a set-up that only 1% of the public will purchase, in truth it isn't a test of any real relevance. This is only my opinion but I reckon I am not alone on this thought. :brag:

Well, the sport auto test is no road test it's a test that will tell you how fast a certain car is at Hockenheim, NS, wet track, 0-200-0 etc.
And if you like to perform well, why supply a car that has the wrong setup for the job?
Perhaps should supply an A4 1.8T for the Sport Auto test, after all it's what people buy... :vhmmm:
This is the first time I have ever heard anyone complain about cars being optimised for what they're supposed to do.

If you want road test, then you are reading the wrong magazine if you're looking into sport auto. I can't remember how many test's I've read that complain about the SS+ and the S-line's much harder setup, myself I love them.
Different tests for different people, apparently.

After all, probably only 1% of the buyers make their minds up after reading sport auto anyway... ;)

[Leadfoot]

Well, the sport auto test is no road test it's a test that will tell you how fast a certain car is at Hockenheim, NS, wet track, 0-200-0 etc.
And if you like to perform well, why supply a car that has the wrong setup for the job?
Perhaps should supply an A4 1.8T for the Sport Auto test, after all it's what people buy... :vhmmm:
This is the first time I have ever heard anyone complain about cars being optimised for what they're supposed to do.

If you want road test, then you are reading the wrong magazine if you're looking into sport auto. I can't remember how many test's I've read that complain about the SS+ and the S-line's much harder setup, myself I love them.
Different tests for different people, apparently.

After all, probably only 1% of the buyers make their minds up after reading sport auto anyway... ;)

Fair point, a bit blunt in your answer but I am man enough to take it. :cheers:

So basically the supertest that Sport Auto conduct are solely to find the quickest possible time from a given car, this might explain why some cars perform that little bit quicker than in other tests which are all testing 'normal' cars. ;)

As for the stiff suspension that Audi cars have had, I think most of the remarks will center about UK roadtests and to be fair they are correct as in the UK most roads aren't to the same standard as most of Europe, especially Germany. It was the thing that bugged me the most about my S4 but gladly Audi seem to be developing their suspension set-ups for the UK market and are seen here on a regular bases. The RS4 I have driven in both SS= and standard suspension and I couldn't really tell the difference, maybe back to back you could but there isn't any of the firmness that was so common with Audi sport suspension in the past.

[Erik]

I think most of the remarks will center about UK roadtests

Swedish as well.

[Rutkowsky]

Fair point, a bit blunt in your answer but I am man enough to take it. :cheers:

So basically the supertest that Sport Auto conduct are solely to find the quickest possible time from a given car, this might explain why some cars perform that little bit quicker than in other tests which are all testing 'normal' cars. ;)

As for the stiff suspension that Audi cars have had, I think most of the remarks will center about UK roadtests and to be fair they are correct as in the UK most roads aren't to the same standard as most of Europe, especially Germany. It was the thing that bugged me the most about my S4 but gladly Audi seem to be developing their suspension set-ups for the UK market and are seen here on a regular bases. The RS4 I have driven in both SS= and standard suspension and I couldn't really tell the difference, maybe back to back you could but there isn't any of the firmness that was so common with Audi sport suspension in the past.


To be honest, i still think using cups and bragging about Ring times achieved on tyres that have a very limited use on public road is Not On really. Ceramic brakes, i could say, it is ok but cups - never, all IMO. I raised the same issue on Mtorque (previously BM3W) in regards to new M3 being tested on cups :vhmmm:

[Rutkowsky]

Who on here wants to drive on cups even in dump conditions.. count me out!! :hihi:

[Leadfoot]

To be honest, i still think using cups and bragging about Ring times achieved on tyres that have a very limited use on public road is Not On really. Ceramic brakes, i could say, it is ok but cups - never, all IMO. I raised the same issue on Mtorque (previously BM3W) in regards to new M3 being tested on cups :vhmmm:

I don't know what these new cup tyres are like compared to the old ones but the previous ones in the CSL were awful in the rain and when cold, I know I former Kart champion who's father had one had a CSL with cups and he would only bring the car out in good weather. I don't think the new cups are as bad as this but still doubt they are close to normal hi-performance tyres designed to deal with rain as part of their make-up.

[Rutkowsky]

They are much better, but it is still R compound cup tyre and they are best to have on a track car in good, dry weather. My issue with M3, RS4 tested on Cups is that while they are high performance sports cars, they are no track cars

[7:53 RS6]

Who on here wants to drive on cups even in dump conditions.. count me out!! :hihi:



Me, whats the problem, well i cant see it, here im on cups.
Ussually im on cup even if it falling down rain on the track as well.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCJrcJzmFG0
A friend is behind me filming in his CSL.

This thing whit cup in rain, well its a drivers thing nothing else, cups are very much ok in rain or wet. Its so overtalked that cups in rain are not drivebel.
Kind of the same overtalk still go regarding Porsches being so difficult to drive.

None of them are tru.

Sure if you drive cup tiers on a dry track and do like 95% of the hobbydrivers on the ring do if it then starts to rain-......., well they accually slow down to that extent that they are just lurking around in like 40km or somthing, well not to stange its then hard to keep temp in the cups tiers!!.

Cups is drivebel in the rain, but hey they nead to be driven as well to get it slightly temperd, and it will work. But it will be slippery if you quit to drive, like let go off the throttel and driving around in like 40km/h on a track in rain!

[7:53 RS6]

I don't know what these new cup tyres are like compared to the old ones but the previous ones in the CSL were awful in the rain and when cold, I know I former Kart champion who's father had one had a CSL with cups and he would only bring the car out in good weather. I don't think the new cups are as bad as this but still doubt they are close to normal hi-performance tyres designed to deal with rain as part of their make-up.


Sorry to say so, but if you dont take your CSL out in the rain on cup tiers, well i have a hard time to belive its any kind of champion driver to be honest:bye:

[Leadfoot]

Sorry to say so, but if you dont take your CSL out in the rain on cup tiers, well i have a hard time to belive its any kind of champion driver to be honest:bye:

7:53RS6,

Re-read what I said, 'father of a Kart champion', he just happened to be a very daddy who happened to supply the money not the champion himself.;)

He did have it out in the rain and I believe it scared him enough to re-frame from using it in the rain again. But what I want to know is how the new ones perform compared to the old CSL versions?

[7:53 RS6]

To be honest, i still think using cups and bragging about Ring times achieved on tyres that have a very limited use on public road is Not On really. Ceramic brakes, i could say, it is ok but cups - never, all IMO. I raised the same issue on Mtorque (previously BM3W) in regards to new M3 being tested on cups :vhmmm:


Personally i think like in the RS4 case and in CSL cars and in all other case there r-compound is stock, well then i see no problem it tested on those stock tiers. All is fine.
I dont know anything as far as M3 E92 has r-comp as a stock option, if they dont well i dont like it tested like that! But if stock, well all ok!


A not to forget, well a AWD RS4 would not gain so much of a R-compound on the ring anyway, it allredy got god traction. A rear driven lightercar like CSL would benefit more from r-compound than a RS4 anyway. My guess is RS4 would go allmost as fast if on street tiers on the ring(it would differ but not by much)

The CSL would not lap as close to its r-comp time if on streets like the RS4 would, it would most likely lap closer to its R-comp time in street tiers than CSL would, on a track like the ring.
The stock996 turbo laps in 7.56 on the sport auto 20.6km lap, if on r-comp well it would gain but not so many seconds, as its still very fast due to god grip still.

[Leadfoot]

7:53RS6,

I am surprised that you would say the RS4 wouldn't gain as much as a rwd car would, surely the fact that they provide more ultimate grip would mean that the front end of the RS4 would hold it's line longer before going in to understeer and as such would be able to corner quicker.

Just a thought based on my experience with Karts, as heat increases in the tyres the grip improves and so does cornering speed.

[7:53 RS6]

7:53RS6,

Re-read what I said, 'father of a Kart champion', he just happened to be a very daddy who happened to supply the money not the champion himself.;)

He did have it out in the rain and I believe it scared him enough to re-frame from using it in the rain again. But what I want to know is how the new ones perform compared to the old CSL versions?


Oh sorry!
Still there is no new cups for CSL, im on the same cups as i allways was 3 yers back. And i guess M3 E92 was on the same as i use for my CSL, anyway that the roumor it was on cups? I dont accually know if so....( and i dont like if this tiers is not a stock option for this E92 M3 car, why was it driven whit it:w:, well was it driven whit it, are this info officall???? )

It might not be BMW that deliver this E92 for Horst?, cuse why would they give him a car that dont got stock tiers?? Sport auto is not that importent to BMW that they give a car to SA whit a tier that is not a stock option for the car in the first place, and in the end going tru all that to make SA do like 7 sec faster lap.
Cant belive it. Most peopel buying a M3 dont even know what the green Hell is(nurburgring)

But DONT forget i have still not seen it offical that M3 was in on 8.03 as well it was on cups.....................we might leave this talk untill we see it offical in Sport Auto!!!!!!!!

I nead to check into if Cups is to be considerd stock or not for E92 M3!


But the new cup tiers developed specally for 997 GT3/RS, well its a big diffrence in wet grip compared to mine, this cup tier is like driving a street tier in wet almost. Mine CSL cups are not that grippy in wett as 997 cups are. But still they are all ok, its in the end a drivers thing i guess? I got no problems driving old CSL cups in rain anyway.

[Leadfoot]

The word I heard was that the option was to be offered with a de-limiting package which increased the topspeed to 280km/h.

[7:53 RS6]

7:53RS6,

I am surprised that you would say the RS4 wouldn't gain as much as a rwd car would, surely the fact that they provide more ultimate grip would mean that the front end of the RS4 would hold it's line longer before going in to understeer and as such would be able to corner quicker.

Just a thought based on my experience with Karts, as heat increases in the tyres the grip improves and so does cornering speed.

Sure i see what you mean. But try to drive a rear driven CSL whit 360 Hp on street tiers vs RS4 on street tiers, well its more easy to get the power to the tarmac still in RS4 due to AWD. Still CSL woud be faster.

But the RS4 would lap closer to its R-comp time in street tiers on the ring than CSL would.
You would not belive the the grip comming from r-comp, it make you abel to even floor it in CSL whit out wheel spin out of corners, but on street you will not be abel to drive the same way in a rear driven car. In AWD its more or less the same if on streets or r-comp, you could flor it slightly more eighter way.

In the end understeer is not a big issu(sure at some place) on the ring, there is no hairpins etc, its a fast sweeping contry road track. And in the end thats why even a front heavy RS4 will do well here on the ring.

I would say RS4 would benefit more from R-comp on other tracks, but not ring so much. In a short track the street tiers would more easy overheat du to front pushing hard in to corners etc, and then R-com would make it more easy.

But on flowing cooling ring not so much, it would differ but not as much as CSL would differ its r-comp time vs street tiers time i think. AWD pull a car round the ring very god even in street tiers.

I could try to fint a test made on a 997 Turbo i think it was, it was tested on streets as well r-comp if my memory don let me down. The was not a big diffrence in the lap time. The AWD do pull the car fast and well forward even in street tiers, not that easy in lets say new GT2 to put in simular lap times on the ring if on streets vs R-comp.