altitude performance

[wild-rs4-man2]

:rs4kiss: just some info for all, I live here in Johannesburg ( 1600 meter above sea level ) I went to the coast a few days ago and I was really supprised on what little differance in performance was gained( RS4 B7 ). my older car which was the B6 S4 had a big differance ( + - 15 % ) but now it seems with FSI the differance is not that much!


Well done to FSI , cant wait to meet a new BMW M3 up here,,, will give it a good thrashing !!

:rs4addict

[Leadfoot]

I would have expected a greater difference, is there any noticeable difference between temperatures at sea level compared to altitude in your area? Difference temperatures also have an affect, maybe at sea level it's a bit warmer.

Just a thought.

[3x5PSI]

Wild-man, we have a club with some E46 M3's, 3 RS4's, a heavily modded B6 S4, some S2/R2's, Subaru's, Evo's, etc. PM me your address we will hook up. I can set you up with an E46 M3 race if you want. I don't think you will have any chance against an E92 M3. The record 1/4 mile for an RS4 at this elevation is 14.1 @ 157 km/h driven by a pro driver. That night there were 3 RS4's & they ran on average 14.3. If you want I can arraneg for your runs to be filmed & we can put it up on this forum.

[wild-rs4-man2]

@leadfoot

yea I also expected a greater diffarance , the temp at the coast was about 10 deg c in the morning and then 20 in the day ( winter time )

I really belive that FSI helps at higher altitide!! I know this for a fact cuz i owned a b6 s4 for over a year and I know the differance !!!


@3x5psi

You can bring any standard ME E46 and i know that i will give it a thrashing from 0 and all the way to 250 !!! , even scubys STI etc etc

If the car is modified then thats a different story ! , I am sure if I remove my aircon , radio , satnav , seats, chip the engine etc etc, I can give the modified cars you mentiond a good go !


i have come next to many many M3 E46 up here and the ones that wanna race ( only 1 out of 10 ) I am able to give a good trashing !

it will be closer with the new m3 V8 but i will still beat it ( just ) , for eg in my RS4 b7 , I can rev the car to 5000 rpm and turn off esp and then dump ( i mean dump ) the clutch and I am trown forward,,,, with very very little wheel spin,, try this in a m3, new or old and you will leave all rubber on the road !

and anyways the RS4 , (S4 essp) are not 1/4 mile cars, like the silly argument ppl always use , the M3 is better on the track. who buys a road car for use on the track !!, these cars are daily driven cars , so big deal if the RS4 does not allow the back to step out , I would rather be safe than have my back step out and hit a " taxi " head on , yes the M3 is a better track car,,, but i dont drive the car on the track , i drive the car on the road!!

anyways VIVA RS4 :rs4kiss:

[3x5PSI]

it will be closer with the new m3 V8 but i will still beat it ( just )

You will get the hiding of your life from an E92 & will struglle to get away from a stock E46 M3.

If you think I am talking bull then accept a challenge on this forum righ there, right now. We are in the same city, we can do tonight, or Thursday night. SoulbladeZA will come with his RS4, so you can have a chance to race another RS4. If you choose not to commit to the challenge then I assume all your claims arew hot air & keyboard talk.

[Leadfoot]

You will get the hiding of your life from an E92 & will struglle to get away from a stock E46 M3.

If you think I am talking bull then accept a challenge on this forum righ there, right now. We are in the same city, we can do tonight, or Thursday night. SoulbladeZA will come with his RS4, so you can have a chance to race another RS4. If you choose not to commit to the challenge then I assume all your claims arew hot air & keyboard talk.

I think you should allow him to bring another M3 to race yours just to prove that yours isn't warmed.

What do you reckon, fair.:D

[M3_SMG]

I have an E46 M3 SMG and i live in JHB. I will race you anytime anywhere. I have run multiple RS4's and i am always at their back door. My quickest 1/4 mile time in JHB has been a 13.8 @ 162. The quickest RS4 i have seen has run a 14.1

Lets hook it up

[3x5PSI]

I think you should allow him to bring another M3 to race yours just to prove that yours isn't warmed.

What do you reckon, fair.:D

There will be at least 3 E46 M3's if he accepts the challenge.

[M3_SMG]

There will be at least 3 E46 M3's if he accepts the challenge.

And mine is 1 of them. My car is completely stock. 3x5psi can verify that.

[Leadfoot]

And mine is 1 of them. My car is completely stock. 3x5psi can verify that.

I don't doubt that your car is stock, but please guys don't start arguments all over this site, some of value the friendship and knowledge that is pass.

[wild-rs4-man2]

hello all friendly M3 GUYS!!


I dont wanna argue , just read the specs, car magazine reviews ( ie RS4 0-100 4.65 sec ) no bmw exept the M5 has come close to that record

Why did " cars in action" give the RS4 the performace car of the year ?

if the BMW M3 is standard I will give it a thrashing !!, if its not stock then different story

anyways topic over ,, have a nice day

:rs4addict

[M3_SMG]

hello all friendly M3 GUYS!!


I dont wanna argue , just read the specs, car magazine reviews ( ie RS4 0-100 4.65 sec ) no bmw exept the M5 has come close to that record

Why did " cars in action" give the RS4 the performace car of the year ?

if the BMW M3 is standard I will give it a thrashing !!, if its not stock then different story

anyways topic over ,, have a nice day

:rs4addict


My M3 is stock. Still under Motorplan etc etc. If you are so sure of yourself then prove it.

Are you listening to me or not ? I HAVE RACED RS4'S.Some i win, some they win. Its too close to call

[3x5PSI]

hello all friendly M3 GUYS!!


I dont wanna argue , just read the specs, car magazine reviews ( ie RS4 0-100 4.65 sec ) no bmw exept the M5 has come close to that record

Why did " cars in action" give the RS4 the performace car of the year ?

if the BMW M3 is standard I will give it a thrashing !!, if its not stock then different story

anyways topic over ,, have a nice day

:rs4addict

Are you going to race or just stick to the magazine reviews done at sea-level when you live up here at altitude? BTW here is the local tests at altitude as tested by Star motoring who test at Gerotek at a very good facility which produces very good times:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Kkrutch/star.jpg

[wild-rs4-man2]

hiya

If you can get a BMW M3 CSL E 46, THAT will be more of a competition

stock M3 E46 is not really competition

anyway i started the message in the forum to say how the car performed at altitude and not to race against M3

if anyone wants to chalange me with a BMW M3 E46 the car has to be modded otherwise it wont be fair

[Leadfoot]

I have told this story before but I have raced (all not standing starts), a Porsche Cayman S, 3 M3s (2 E46 and 1 E36), an M5v8 and one RS4. The Cayman I had the better of, he finally pulled in behind me after 120mph though in doubt nearer the top he would have had me. Of the 3 M3s two were very close, one I beat easily which I will disregard, the other two both very close, the E46 the speed only got to 110mph and I reckon it could have gone either way and E36 I was behind when he floored it to over take and it went the 125mph, I was all over him but as I was in his air I can't say if I really had the better of him. I later learned that the E36 M3 had been tuned and was kicking an estimated 315hp. The M5 race was side by side and up to 120mph their was nothing in it.

Now the RS4 was a totally different story, like the E36 race I was behind waiting for the RS4 to go but when he went I was left for dead, between the space of most of 2nd, all of 3rd and most of 4th gear the RS4 pulled an easy 6+ lengths on me.

As for the acceleration of my S4, 0-125mph with the aid of a friend on a stopwatch so not the most accurate, my best time was mid/high 18s, can't remember exactly but it wasn't in the 19s that's for sure. It was standard but driven hard it's entire time and like the RS4 only really came on song until 15,000miles mark.

Based on my experience of both the M3 and RS4 I would be in no doubt that the RS4 is the quicker. But I don't know history of the RS4 so maybe it been warmed. As for the other I doubt it or like you said they would have won easily. ;)

[wild-rs4-man2]

yea from owning a B6 S4 and keeping up with a E46 BMW M3 and now having a B7 RS4 ( WHICH KILLS THE B6 S4 ), I KNOW how strong the RS4 is ,,,, way way quicker than the B6 s4 SO I have no fear of any standard M3 E46 or even the new V8 bmw M3

CHEERS FOR NOW

:rs4kiss:

[M3_SMG]

yea from owning a B6 S4 and keeping up with a E46 BMW M3 and now having a B7 RS4 ( WHICH KILLS THE B6 S4 ), I KNOW how strong the RS4 is ,,,, way way quicker than the B6 s4 SO I have no fear of any standard M3 E46 or even the new V8 bmw M3

CHEERS FOR NOW

:rs4kiss:

Lol.One of the funniest things i have ever heard.

An E46 M3 on the reef rapes poor B6 S4's. Even highly modded ones. In fact i can get an S4 owner on this board to tell you the same thing.

[SoulBladeZA]

Eh? Where is Pitzi's M5 vs my RS4 vid? Blood on the dancefloor :(

RS4 is slower than my 335i up here as well. Sad but true. Should run neck and neck with an E46 M3.

[wild-rs4-man2]

dude !!! never ever ever will a BMW M3 RAPE A B6 S4,,, it will be a close race but if there has to be a winner it will be the BMW M3 but only by 0.1 sec AND THATS IT !! CLOSE VERY CLOSE BUT NO THRASHING

AS I have said before B7 RS4 kills a E46 M3 ,, TOPIC OVER, LETS WAIT for Jermary to test the cars against each other ,, that should be good ,, look out for the next car magazine they should test the two together,,, umm new M3 ,, but i suppose you will say the E46 M3 is quicker than the new v8 M3

Just read the post on the forum on how the RS4 beats the new M3 , DONT FOR GET THE RS4 is 2 years behind , BMW had the advantage but lost... sorry to say


anyways have a nice day, and as they say " blik met wiele" , just kidding !!

[M3_SMG]

dude !!! never ever ever will a BMW M3 RAPE A B6 S4,,, it will be a close race but if there has to be a winner it will be the BMW M3 but only by 0.1 sec AND THATS IT !! CLOSE VERY CLOSE BUT NO THRASHING

AS I have said before B7 RS4 kills a E46 M3 ,, TOPIC OVER, LETS WAIT for Jermary to test the cars against each other ,, that should be good ,, look out for the next car magazine they should test the two together,,, umm new M3 ,, but i suppose you will say the E46 M3 is quicker than the new v8 M3

Just read the post on the forum on how the RS4 beats the new M3 , DONT FOR GET THE RS4 is 2 years behind , BMW had the advantage but lost... sorry to say


anyways have a nice day, and as they say " blik met wiele" , just kidding !!

I will post vids of S4's getting nailed by M3's. BIG TIME.

Some Euro mags have already tested the E92 M3 and it has posted significantly quicker times than the RS4 managed

[wild-rs4-man2]

@soulbladeza

I had a go against a 335i ( turbo helps ) but i still managed to beat him

@ m3 smg

pls show me the reports that the M3 is much quicker than the RS4 , ALL THE TEST i have read state otherwise

this as all getting way to angry !!

see ya on the road ,,, umm well in my rear view morror !!

bye
:rs4kiss:

[Leadfoot]

I personally have never experienced a thrashing by an M3, but like I say mine was pretty quick for a S4. Did I say that the M3 which I beat easy was in fact my brother-in-law's car, he has since changed to a Z4M Coupe which I look forward to tackling with the S5 when it's run in.

To the best of my knowledge the Z4M is a little quicker than the old M3 so it could be an interesting match. As for speed on the road, the S5 with destroy the Z4M, it one scary animal on the road.:MTM: And for all the wrong reasons.

Is it possible that some brands are set-up better for different fuel standards. Maybe in S.Africa the BMW performs better than in other countries, or maybe it the S4 and RS4 that isn't.

Just a thought.

[SoulBladeZA]

@soulbladeza

I had a go against a 335i ( turbo helps ) but i still managed to beat him


:rs4kiss:

We can have a pull with the stock 335i vs RS4 if you want? :race: Haven't raced an RS4 with it in an organised race before, anything can happen on the streets. :incar:

[3x5PSI]

BTW guys, SoulBlade has a 335i AND an RS4. So he speaks for both camps.

Here's some videos of S4's vs E46 M3's which we have done. We have friends that own all these cars. They run a second slower than M3's from a stop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiPLWtUZmfs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PngV3rmHK78

Here's M3 vs modified S4's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Don1MvSgnvA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNGoHVR16W8

I have not seen any video anywhere on the planet of an S4 beating an M3 in a race. If you gys find any please post.

[SoulBladeZA]

BTW guys, SoulBlade has a 335i AND an RS4. So he speaks for both camps.

Double agent FTW. Interpol wants my blood ese

[wild-rs4-man2]

i never said a s4 B6 WILL BEAT A M3 E46 , I SAID the opposite, the BMW WILL JUST BEAT IT

BUT THE rs4 IS ANOTHER ANIMAL , it will beat the M3 E46 and just pips the new V8

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/05/26/video-audi-rs4-vs-bmw-m3-cs/

HERE IS THE RS4 killing the M3 CS ,,, NOT EVEN THE STANDARD m3

i am not talking about the B6 s4 ( that was a bit of a donkey )

pls show me one " profesional test " where a BMW M3 E46 beats a RS4 b7

[SoulBladeZA]

Prepare for scans :p

[audi_ch]

maybe you have other cars then we have her in Switzerland and germany.

as far as i can say. My old rs4 b5 was quicker then every m3 i run against it, specialy on the german high ways. As quicker we go as bigger the difference, than when i tuned it, porsche 997 s where no problems either. Moderate tunning to 440 ps and 600 nm.

my new rs4 limo is definitly quicker than my old b5 in serie trims, but slightly slower then the b5 tunned to 440 ps.

M3 no problems at all, 335i no problems, carrera 4s more or less the same, in high speed a litle bit slower, up to 250, half of a car.

But it is also clear from my point of view that an s4 wont beat the m3.

But why some person think the old m3 will beat the rs4 limo, cant untersand.

By the way, between limo and avant b7 up to 200 kmh, is a difference from 11/2 car lenght, due tu weight.

I agree as well, the new m3 is different story, he will make the difference up from 150 kmh to topspeed. But from standing start the rs4 will be in front definitly for a few meters.

Why i say that. a good friend of mine develops the "abs" systems from Bosch for quick cars as Audi, Lambo aswell bmw M. (He spents many days on test track with those cars, Hockenheimring, Nürnburgring ect.)And he clairly said the grip level from standing start of the rs4 b7 is not comperable to the new m3, but as higher the speed goes the m is catching up meters and meters.

So everyone has to decide what he wants to. I want a car witch i can drive save and fast all years round, with 19" wheels witch are good looking. If wanted i high way bomber, than probably the m5 till know, but from tomorrow on the new rs6..

cu

[Leadfoot]

On this very site a S4 Avant raced an M3 SMG. Now remember that an Avant will be like audi ch says 1+1/2 car lengths slower you will see how close the race will be against the saloon.

AudiS4_vs_M3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQC-8CDdHog)

It looks pretty close to me, but then again I will be bias.

P.S.

Do you notice how close the S4Avant is after the acceleration carried on to the 250km/h point. I don't see a walking anywhere on this video and on some of the runs the M3 jumps the start, plus it's a SMG so better through the gears then any manual.

[wild-rs4-man2]

THANKS AUDI SUPORTERS !!


RS4 will beat the M3 E46,,, TOPIC CLOSED

JUST accept it BMW guys you were king for many years now accept the loss !!!

[audi_ch]

Rs4 b7 limo vs rs4b7 avant, there takes the limo a good car lenght difference or even 1 1/2 up to 200 kmh. Avant is almoust 100 kg heavier

Maybee i was not clear enough

[Mori]

Well wouldn't it be easier to race that E46 M3 and prove it instead of senseless babbling? :)

[Leadfoot]

The problem with any argument is there will always be two sides and with this one there the Audi fans like myself and others who believe the RS4 is much quicker than the E46 M3 and there is lots of video evidence to prove this to be true.

One sample being this_video (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IINJzDKNpcw) where clearly you see the M3 get the jump but still the RS4 pulls away, sure it's slow but when there is only a second or so between them to 100mph so that is only going to amount to 1 or 2 lengths and this is roughly what we see.

But like M&M sorry 3x5PSI said he has data proving different.

Even a race between them will only prove that between the two cars tested one will be quicker or equal to the other. The only thing we are sure of it that the RS4 posts an average split time to 200km/h almost 2 seconds quicker than the E46 M3. That is a fact that plain for everyone to see.

[3x5PSI]

For once I agree with Leadie. No 2 cars are the same (especially the Audi press cars which are all blue-printed). No 2 drivers are the same. No 2 races are the same. Anything can happen when cars are closely matched.

[//M Reich]

Wild RS4 man, how do you think your car fares against the E60 M5?

[wild-rs4-man2]

@ // m Reich

0-100 will be close after that the M5 will see me in the rear view Mirror

But we are not comparing appels with appels , the M5 IS a V 10,,, so once the baby gets going it really flys !!

[M3_SMG]

Well wouldn't it be easier to race that E46 M3 and prove it instead of senseless babbling? :)

I am ready and waiting. Fact is the quickest RS4 in JHB has run a 14.1 on the 1/4 mile. Stock M3's (mine included) have run 13.8's. Same track

[Leadfoot]

For once I agree with Leadie. No 2 cars are the same (especially the Audi press cars which are all blue-printed). No 2 drivers are the same. No 2 races are the same. Anything can happen when cars are closely matched.

This was what I was trying to show with that video of the S4 Avant vs the M3 SMG, on most of the short races the M3 pulled out a length or so but on one which ran through most of 4th gear the S4 stayed in front. Regardless of that one win the M3 is the quicker car, the facts are plain to see, average split times for an M3 are again almost 1~2 seconds quicker than the S4 depending on model, in other words a similar situation to that of the RS4 vs M3.

Even on the run to the 250km/h point the M3 was only pulling out a but 4~5 lengths (though through a fish eye lens it looks more), again disproving that the M3's top end grunt will see it walk a S4 or a CSL doing the same to a RS4.

You have to have a huge performance difference to show a real gap opening up between cars.

3x5PSI reckons his 335i is miles quicker than a stock RS4, but the video he post a long with this one shows they difference isn't that quicker, if anything.

RS4_vs_M5_E60_(525hp) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Amu9LJDQLM) another video M5_vs_RS4_both_stock (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrESTacAyD0) and now 3x5PSI video Tuned_335i_vs_stock_M5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qFJj2U84LY)

Am I the only one here who sees a similar race and outcome at roughly the same speeds.

[M3_SMG]

http://mmm.os.org.za/d/690-1/Driver3a.jpg

[KK265]

[QUOTE=M3_SMG;103354[/QUOTE]

Again the same fake test!!!!

http://www2.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11234&page=3
If you do not read Greek do not post Greek Drive magazine results because you do not know what you post.....

[3x5PSI]

3x5PSI reckons his 335i is miles quicker than a stock RS4, but the video he post a long with this one shows they difference isn't that quicker, if anything.

RS4_vs_M5_E60_(525hp) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Amu9LJDQLM) another video M5_vs_RS4_both_stock (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrESTacAyD0) and now 3x5PSI video Tuned_335i_vs_stock_M5 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qFJj2U84LY)

Am I the only one here who sees a similar race and outcome at roughly the same speeds.

Leadie, what are you doing? Posting random videos from Russia & Afghanistan & then drawing conclusions? WTF? We have these cars, we race each other. I raced Pitzi, Soul's RS4 raced Pitzi. Did you not see the videos? I will race Soul but we both know what's going to happen. My 335 DETROYS my M3. I am still an M3 man at heart but the 335 just runs away at any speed. Its not a race. Soul's stock 335i runs slightly ahead of his RS4 at this elevation. RS4's are trapping 157km/h overe 400m here, my 335 traps 180 at the same track.

I know you mean well to compare random videos, but we are all buddies. We have arranged side-by-side races. I will be sure to film it for you.

[//M Reich]

@ // m Reich

0-100 will be close after that the M5 will see me in the rear view Mirror

But we are not comparing appels with appels , the M5 IS a V 10,,, so once the baby gets going it really flys !!Wanna put that theory to test?

I own an M5, we can hook up and have a friendly race just for the fun of it.

We can even go and have a drink afterwards.

[M3_SMG]

Wanna put that theory to test?

I own an M5, we can hook up and have a friendly race just for the fun of it.

We can even go and have a drink afterwards.

Pizza is that you. Anyway i am also there. But i doubt Mr wild is gonna accept the challenge

[//M Reich]

M5_vs_RS4_both_stock (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrESTacAyD0) Im sorry to have to say this, but that M5 owner didn't know WTF he was doing.

This is what happens when you use launch control in P500 mode from a standing start as well as rolling start:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCnfxai775w

[Leadfoot]

Leadie, what are you doing? Posting random videos from Russia & Afghanistan & then drawing conclusions? WTF? We have these cars, we race each other. I raced Pitzi, Soul's RS4 raced Pitzi. Did you not see the videos? I will race Soul but we both know what's going to happen. My 335 DETROYS my M3. I am still an M3 man at heart but the 335 just runs away at any speed. Its not a race. Soul's stock 335i runs slightly ahead of his RS4 at this elevation. RS4's are trapping 157km/h overe 400m here, my 335 traps 180 at the same track.

I know you mean well to compare random videos, but we are all buddies. We have arranged side-by-side races. I will be sure to film it for you.

You have such an arrogant nature that only spell one thing to me, youth. You only accept the evidence that you are bringing to the table and nothing else.

An M5 regardless of the country and driver involved is still an M5, the same goes for a RS4 and the 335i. If the video evidence of all show that both the RS4 and your 335i roughly get taken by the M5 at similar speeds what is your problem, it doesn't meant your on set of rules. So all of a sudden only the races that take part in S.Africa are valid.

Alas this argument has gain momentum to a level that now all of your mates have joined the site and that can only spell problem for any discussions in the future.

This is one of the reasons why BMW and M drivers in particular piss me off big time. Not content to destroy their own web sites, they have to come on to others and do the same.

[Leadfoot]

Im sorry to have to say this, but that M5 owner didn't know WTF he was doing.

This is what happens when you use launch control in P500 mode from a standing start as well as rolling start:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCnfxai775w

So you are basically driving your M5 all the time in these setting. No wonder so many M5/6 have had broken transmissions.

I can see it now, M5 owner 'wait a minute there while I go in to my i-drive and enter sub-menu this and press this setting, right are you ready to race now'. :stick: 'WTF, where did the RS4 go, did any of you see it.' :lovl:

Now that would be a video worth posting. :thumb:

[BigRick]

So you are basically driving your M5 all the time in these setting. No wonder so many M5/6 have had broken transmissions.

I can see it now, M5 owner 'wait a minute there while I go in to my i-drive and enter sub-menu this and press this setting, right are you ready to race now'. :stick: 'WTF, where did the RS4 go, did any of you see it.' :lovl:

Now that would be a video worth posting. :thumb:


Looks like we have another wave of bimmers coming in... brace yourself everyone :noshake:

Strange how many of them we get these days. Can't they just either stay in their forum or buy an Audi and enjoy ours?! It's like they like Audi's forum more than BMW forum. So if that's the case then try their products... they're even more fun! :rs4kiss:

[wild-rs4-man2]

as I said TOPIC OVER ! RS4 IS FASTER THAN THE BM3 E46 !!!

Now this is a audi forum, if you beemer guys wanna sit here all day and argue , rather go out and purchase a RS4, what are you guys doing here anyway

I dont go to your forums and say how much quicker I am than you so pls get a life !!!

[wild-rs4-man2]

Wanna put that theory to test?

I own an M5, we can hook up and have a friendly race just for the fun of it.

We can even go and have a drink afterwards.


My sympathy for owning a M5

But I never said ILL beat you, I said the opposite , so what do you wanna prove !!

[//M Reich]

So you are basically driving your M5 all the time in these setting. No wonder so many M5/6 have had broken transmissions.

I can see it now, M5 owner 'wait a minute there while I go in to my i-drive and enter sub-menu this and press this setting, right are you ready to race now'. :stick: 'WTF, where did the RS4 go, did any of you see it.' :lovl:

Now that would be a video worth posting. :thumb:Grasping at straws I see. There is a button on the steering wheels that has a nice big M stamped on it, press that one and you are in P500 with the fastest MDM allowed gearbox shift speed. Just like your beloved RS4 has a sport button.

At least get your facts right before babbling nonsense.

[//M Reich]

My sympathy for owning a M5

But I never said ILL beat you, I said the opposite , so what do you wanna prove !!
Did I ever say something to that effect?

Whats with getting all defensive and aggressive at the same time when offered a simple race/meetup?

My goodness, some people need a chill pill. I offered a friendly hookup to compare 2 great cars of this era, seeing that you are a fellow South African, my bad.:noshake:

[wild-rs4-man2]

Grasping at straws I see. There is a button on the steering wheels that has a nice big M stamped on it, press that one and you are in P500 with the fastest MDM allowed gearbox shift speed. Just like your beloved RS4 has a sport button.

At least get your facts right before babbling nonsense.


umm talk about facts

The beloved sports button does not give any power advantage !

The RS4 has enough power anyway ! it just makes it sound fantastic !

[BigRick]

Did I ever say something to that effect?

Whats with getting all defensive and aggressive at the same time when offered a simple race/meetup?

My goodness, some people need a chill pill. I offered a friendly hookup to compare 2 great cars of this era, seeing that you are a fellow South African, my bad.:noshake:

Maybe we're judging too fast but we had our share of BMW drivers lately and let me tell you they made a bad impression to say the least...

You're coming in troublesome times. New M3 not up to the expectation in BMW camp makes them come in here to simply disturb our quiet and peacefull forum :)

Please prove us wrong

Cheers!

[Leadfoot]

Grasping at straws I see. There is a button on the steering wheels that has a nice big M stamped on it, press that one and you are in P500 with the fastest MDM allowed gearbox shift speed. Just like your beloved RS4 has a sport button.

At least get your facts right before babbling nonsense.

Of course I know the M5 has the M button, I has tested more than one or two, as well as the M6 and the 335i, 335d, X3, X5 etc, etc.

So you are saying that you drive the thing on P500, quickest shift pattern, suspension on firmest setting etc. but only when you press the M button. What about the rest of the time, is it P400 mode, :blush: that something I can't get my head around, who wants to have to always request the full power every time they drive the thing. :doh: Me things the reasons were reliability. ;)

My point was the stupidity of having all of these setting available, it's plain dumb, what is the bloody thing?, a car that you get in and drive or a computer game. Personally after driving them, I vote the latter.

[wild-rs4-man2]

Did I ever say something to that effect?

Whats with getting all defensive and aggressive at the same time when offered a simple race/meetup?

My goodness, some people need a chill pill. I offered a friendly hookup to compare 2 great cars of this era, seeing that you are a fellow South African, my bad.:noshake:


Sorry for being so rude !!!! , I thought you were being silly !!! my appologies !!

[//M Reich]

umm talk about facts

The beloved sports button does not give any power advantage !

The RS4 has enough power anyway ! it just makes it sound fantastic !
It's not purely for sound. It alters the throttle maps in the ECU as well as a different setting for the dampers.

It might not give it extra power, but certainly sharpens the car up.

I've driven one, so I'm not as uninformed as you may think.

[//M Reich]

Of course I know the M5 has the M button, I has tested more than one or two, as well as the M6 and the 335i, 335d, X3, X5 etc, etc.

So you are saying that you drive the thing on P500, quickest shift pattern, suspension on firmest setting etc. but only when you press the M button. What about the rest of the time, is it P400 mode, :blush: that something I can't get my head around, who wants to have to always request the full power every time they drive the thing. :doh: Me things the reasons were reliability. ;)

My point was the stupidity of having all of these setting available, it's plain dumb, what is the bloody thing?, a car that you get in and drive or a computer game. Personally after driving them, I vote the latter.P400 is very nice when you want to cruise around. The M5 is far from an out and out sports car, but a comfortable saloon that can be used for commuting as well as keeping up with supercars.

It's a pleasure to drive around in traffic in P400, the suspension is at it's softest setting, you can put SMG into auto mode and it's as comfortable as anything else out there as well as giving it a slkightly better fuel consumption. P500 is maniac mode, when you want to have fun.

If you are convinced that the M5 is a computer game, you've clearly never driven one and are just blabbing nonsense, as I predicted. RS4 also has electronically operated everything, including the AWD system, alas it doesnt have a "less power" mode. Does that make it less of a computer game?


Lastly, P400 has got nothing to do with reliability, my car has been driven hard for 16000kms and the only time it's ever seen the dealership was for oil changes.

[KK265]

My sympathy for owning a M5

But I never said ILL beat you, I said the opposite , so what do you wanna prove !!

That it is also reliable!!:lovl:

[Leadfoot]

If you are convinced that the M5 is a computer game, you've clearly never driven one and are just blabbing nonsense, as I predicted.

This reaction was expected, but sadly you are mistaken with your above comment. :boring:

Oh, I clearly have hit a nerve. :hihi:

[Leadfoot]

Lastly, P400 has got nothing to do with reliability, my car has been driven hard for 16000kms and the only time it's ever seen the dealership was for oil changes.

That might be what your dealer is telling you but .......... ;)

[wild-rs4-man2]

It's not purely for sound. It alters the throttle maps in the ECU as well as a different setting for the dampers.

It might not give it extra power, but certainly sharpens the car up.

I've driven one, so I'm not as uninformed as you may think.



ummmmmmmmm no

only sharpens the throttle responce ,,, ie time it takes to send some juce to those engine,,, so no ecu mapping

does not increase power , or damper setting !!!!! never heard of that in my life !!!

so you drove one !!! did you feel the dampers changing !!! mmm

dont think so

you experts test drive the car and you think you know how it works

or am I uninformed !!! as you think

[SoulBladeZA]

ummmmmmmmm no

only sharpens the throttle responce ,,, ie time it takes to send some juce to those engine,,, so no ecu mapping

does not increase power , or damper setting !!!!! never heard of that in my life !!!

so you drove one !!! did you feel the dampers changing !!! mmm

dont think so

you experts test drive the car and you think you know how it works

or am I uninformed !!! as you think

I own one. It does indeed make the ride firmer, makes the throttle response sharper, opens the flap in the exhaust and makes the bolsters in the seats grip harder.

Also, all that iDrive nonsense is rubbish. You set it up ONCE the way you like it when you want to have fun, ie M mode, then it stays like that forever. You can ask the dealer to have the car start in P500 mode if you want.

[SoulBladeZA]

That might be what your dealer is telling you but .......... ;)

One of my mates has an S4 that's on it's 3rd engine now. Suddenly all S4s are sh1t? Hardly.

[Leadfoot]

One of my mates has an S4 that's on it's 3rd engine now. Suddenly all S4s are sh1t? Hardly.

If they drive anything like you do I wouldn't be surprised.:boring:

[SoulBladeZA]

If they drive anything like you do I wouldn't be surprised.:boring:

I also have a 130i, it's on 45 000km now after one year and a bit. So far it's had 2 oil changes and 2 brake pad changes, that's it. I drive my cars hard yes, but they are also cared for, warming the components up properly etc. Actually I've never had a major component failure on any car I've owned. Must be rigged. :mech:

[Leadfoot]

So you were the guy who buy the 130i, we hear that BMW had finally sold one and we were wondering where is had gone. ;)

[SoulBladeZA]

So you were the guy who buy the 130i, we hear that BMW had finally sold one and we were wondering where is had gone. ;)

Yeah the potential customers never make it past the A3 test drive. So many poor souls dying of boredom, rest their souls :(

[M3_SMG]

Yeah the potential customers never make it past the A3 test drive. So many poor souls dying of boredom, rest their souls :(

lol good one Soul. I have driven S4's and almost feel asleep behind the wheel. RS4 was better but still not an //M

I will check you this weekend, bring the ORDI so we can put this RS4 vs M3 thing to bed

[Leadfoot]

WTF, not another one of you lot have jointed.

Erik, get your keyboard ready, we will soon have to re-name the site to RS6vsMcars.COM.

[SoulBladeZA]

lol good one Soul. I have driven S4's and almost feel asleep behind the wheel. RS4 was better but still not an //M

I will check you this weekend, bring the ORDI so we can put this RS4 vs M3 thing to bed

RS4 is NOTHING like an A3, thank goodness. Well except maybe for the 4 rings and the similarly styled interior, which isn't a bad thing anyway.

Will see if I have time this weekend for a mini-shootout :hahahehe:

[SoulBladeZA]

WTF, not another one of you lot have jointed.

Erik, get your keyboard ready, we will soon have to re-name the site to RS6vsMcars.COM.

Zimbabwe take-over, SA style! :D

[Mori]

I own one. It does indeed make the ride firmer, makes the throttle response sharper, opens the flap in the exhaust and makes the bolsters in the seats grip harder.

Also, all that iDrive nonsense is rubbish. You set it up ONCE the way you like it when you want to have fun, ie M mode, then it stays like that forever. You can ask the dealer to have the car start in P500 mode if you want.

It CANNOT make the ride firmer since the RS4 does not have electrically operated dampers like PASM in Porsche or Magnetic Ride in Audi TTs/R8s.

[M3_SMG]

RS4 is NOTHING like an A3, thank goodness. Well except maybe for the 4 rings and the similarly styled interior, which isn't a bad thing anyway.

Will see if I have time this weekend for a mini-shootout :hahahehe:

You gotta come pick up the PS2 this weekend so might as well bring the RS4.

Ye RS4 is much better than A3. But still not an //M

[BigRick]

Another wave of trolls... man they're many. We can't keep up with them; they're flooding the forum of so much crap that we can't keep up.

Was the forum sold to BMW or what? Any one knows about a private forum where no trolls are allowed?

:vgrumpy:

[//M Reich]

Just to make sure the rush remains where it should be, the RS4 has the S button. Punching it re-maps the throttle so its response becomes even sharper, while opening a couple of flaps - one to ease the air into the engine, the other to ease the exhaust's passage away from it.
http://www.autoreviewsonline.com/testdrives/2007/review/?article=071712118

The steering wheel is a square bottomed item, though significantly meatier than seen in the VW Golf (http://www.carenthusiast.com/roadtests.html?mode=article&id=1121), with a variety of controls fitted, including an 'S' for sport button that sharpens throttle response, alters the exhaust flow to beef up the exhaust note and even squeezes the side and thigh bolsters of the driver to make sure they feel very much part of the action.
http://www.carenthusiast.com/roadtests.html?article=1292

More on here:
http://www.audiforums.com/m_472175/tm.htm

Do you guys even own an RS4? I'm starting to have my doubts as you clearly don't know what you're talking about. I picked this up in a short 20kms drive in one after it was just launched, and you own the car and don't know it at all?

[wild-rs4-man2]

I own one. It does indeed make the ride firmer, makes the throttle response sharper, opens the flap in the exhaust and makes the bolsters in the seats grip harder.

Also, all that iDrive nonsense is rubbish. You set it up ONCE the way you like it when you want to have fun, ie M mode, then it stays like that forever. You can ask the dealer to have the car start in P500 mode if you want.


when does it firm the ride !!! never ever dude ! unless I am mistaken it does not firm the ride,,,,I certainly cannot feel that

I know all the rest ,,,, , i do own one and I have read the manual,,

[wild-rs4-man2]

Just to make sure the rush remains where it should be, the RS4 has the S button. Punching it re-maps the throttle so its response becomes even sharper, while opening a couple of flaps - one to ease the air into the engine, the other to ease the exhaust's passage away from it.
http://www.autoreviewsonline.com/testdrives/2007/review/?article=071712118

The steering wheel is a square bottomed item, though significantly meatier than seen in the VW Golf (http://www.carenthusiast.com/roadtests.html?mode=article&id=1121), with a variety of controls fitted, including an 'S' for sport button that sharpens throttle response, alters the exhaust flow to beef up the exhaust note and even squeezes the side and thigh bolsters of the driver to make sure they feel very much part of the action.
http://www.carenthusiast.com/roadtests.html?article=1292

More on here:
http://www.audiforums.com/m_472175/tm.htm

Do you guys even own an RS4? I'm starting to have my doubts as you clearly don't know what you're talking about. I picked this up in a short 20kms drive in one after it was just launched, and you own the car and don't know it at all?



Shame on you ,,, grasping at straws !!!

we know the car, all i said is it does not give you more power !!!! finished ! , pushing the S button only opens the flaps etc etc

[OzRS4]

Do you guys even own an RS4? I'm starting to have my doubts as you clearly don't know what you're talking about. I picked this up in a short 20kms drive in one after it was just launched, and you own the car and don't know it at all?[/FONT]

I do own one and I have read the manual too (page 144)...all the S button does is sharpen the throttle response, squeeze the side bolsters (if one choose to), open the exhaust flaps for more throatier noise. It DEFINITELY DOES NOT firm up the ride or nor it lowers the suspension. Get your facts from Audi itself please.

Anyway, each to their own. We buy certain cars because we like it for certain reasons. Happy driving.:thumb:

[wild-rs4-man2]

yip to rightly said by OZRS4 !!!

[Leadfoot]

To all these S.A. A-holes who think the RS4 adjusts the suspension. Check the options list, there is an option called SS+ suspension,:vhmmm: I wonder why offer a firmer suspension when clearly in S.Africa the car already comes with a button that basically does it for you.

Not only do you drive the RS4 like a girl, you have the mechanical knowledge of a girl. :lovl:

[Leadfoot]

I have a question to all you people like 3x5PSI (M&M), if you were banned from the site why come back to start the same BS all over again, you weren't welcome before so why do you think you will be welcomed again.

[wild-rs4-man2]

To all these S.A. A-holes who think the RS4 adjusts the suspension. Check the options list, there is an option called SS+ suspension,:vhmmm: I wonder why offer a firmer suspension when clearly in S.Africa the car already comes with a button that basically does it for you.

Not only do you drive the RS4 like a girl, you have the mechanical knowledge of a girl. :lovl:


Hi Leadfoot

He he !!


just as a matter of interest the SS+ is not avaliable here anyway ! , I think the roads here are in a bad condition !!!

but maybe as you said , just push the sports button and it selects the SS+ MODE,,, hehe,,, only avaliable here in South Africa,,, world first !!!

[SoulBladeZA]

when does it firm the ride !!! never ever dude ! unless I am mistaken it does not firm the ride,,,,I certainly cannot feel that

I know all the rest ,,,, , i do own one and I have read the manual,,

My bad, I usually only press S when on some empty backroads and pushing the car. I guess the combination of the seats gripping harder and the ride quality deteriorating at speed over B roads can fool one

[wild-rs4-man2]

My bad, I usually only press S when on some empty backroads and pushing the car. I guess the combination of the seats gripping harder and the ride quality deteriorating at speed over B roads can fool one


I have the sports button pressed 90 % of the time, the combinaton of the seats Gripping harder can be disabeled ! have you tried that ?


Just love the sound it makes so I have it on all the time !!

what is the colour of yours and what area in Jhb to you reside ?

[M3_SMG]

He lives in elbirtin...lol

[SoulBladeZA]

I have the sports button pressed 90 % of the time, the combinaton of the seats Gripping harder can be disabeled ! have you tried that ?


Just love the sound it makes so I have it on all the time !!

what is the colour of yours and what area in Jhb to you reside ?

Yeah I've tried it, I drive with it off most of the time, prefer travelling in stealth mode :hihi:

It's black on black, live in Alberton

[Leadfoot]

What it the octane rating of the fuel in S.Africa? And what do Audi quote as it's output there, because State Side the top fuel is only 93 octane and Audi of America has the RS4 re-mapping adjusted to suit that fuel.

[wild-rs4-man2]

Yeah I've tried it, I drive with it off most of the time, prefer travelling in stealth mode :hihi:

It's black on black, live in Alberton

Black on Black ? where did you disable the seat gripping ? why drive with the gloroius sound off? rather get a Lexus then !

[wild-rs4-man2]

What it the octane rating of the fuel in S.Africa? And what do Audi quote as it's output there, because State Side the top fuel is only 93 octane and Audi of America has the RS4 re-mapping adjusted to suit that fuel.

95 !!, Audi Quote 309 KW, THE car is not re-mapped (as far as i know ) the car was tested in SA and got a whopping 0-100 in 4.65 SEC

it seems to do well here in SA , thats why be give carrots to our fellow M3 cars ( opps will i start the whole story again )

[M3_SMG]

THen come try my M3 mister RS4 is UBER ALLES.

Anyway the difference is SA fuel octane is measured in RON and in the States they use MON. Their 93 is more like 98 RON

Google it

[Leadfoot]

THen come try my M3 mister RS4 is UBER ALLES.

Anyway the difference is SA fuel octane is measured in RON and in the States they use MON. Their 93 is more like 98 RON

Google it

Alas M3_SMG this is one subject I know a hack of a lot about and sorry but you are totally wrong, in the US it three grades are 87, 89 and 93, while in Europe most countries offer 95 and 98 though fuel companies like Shell and BP offer higher than this, Shell with 99 and BP with Ultima 102 a fuel design solely for racing and trackdays which costs a bomb. The fuel sold in the states is of a far lower quality than in Europe, this is down to European manufacturers pushing the boundary of engine technology and demanding the fuel manufacturers to come up with more advanced fuels to suit.

US engines are in general less advanced than their European cousins and as such BMW/Audi/Mercedes etc have to re-map their very high performance cars to suit this inferior fuel. Plain and simple.

[Leadfoot]

P.S.

I forgot the say that in the US they don't use the MON rating, they use RdON which is a average of the RON and MON rating of the fuel used in that country. Their 93 is equal to our 95 standard Unleaded fuel in Europe and this is why the cars which come from here that require Super Unleaded fuel or 98/99RON get re-mapped to suit.

This is why in the States the quoted power output for an M3 E46 is 333hp not the 343hp of Europe.

[//M Reich]

Hi Leadfoot

SS+ MODE,,, hehe,,, only avaliable here in South Africa,,, Have you passed matric yet?

[//M Reich]

I forgot the say that in the US they don't use the MON rating, they use RdON which is a average of the RON and MON rating of the fuel used in that country.Correct.


This is why in the States the quoted power output for an M3 E46 is 333hp not the 343hp of Europe.Incorrect.
That power output is lower due to the fact that US spec M3's have an extra pair of catalitic converters in the exhaust headers, to conform to California's emission laws.

We have 95RON (only had 93RON here when the M3 was launched in 2001) and the rated power was still 252kw.

Finally, wild RS4 man, the RS4 was indeed tested at 4.65 sec 0-100 by Car magazine at sea level, but at Gauteng altitude it's a different matter. 1600m above sea level is not kind to N/A motors.

[M3_SMG]

P.S.

I forgot the say that in the US they don't use the MON rating, they use RdON which is a average of the RON and MON rating of the fuel used in that country. Their 93 is equal to our 95 standard Unleaded fuel in Europe and this is why the cars which come from here that require Super Unleaded fuel or 98/99RON get re-mapped to suit.

This is why in the States the quoted power output for an M3 E46 is 333hp not the 343hp of Europe.

That was my point. Mixed up dRon with Mon. My point was that their 93 = our 95 etc etc. They get up to 98 dRon at some pumps aswell. Check Sunoco's website

Agreed with Pitzi, the US Spec M3's had cat's in the manifolds which dropped the power to 333 Bhp.

[Leadfoot]

Correct.

Incorrect.
That power output is lower due to the fact that US spec M3's have an extra pair of catalitic converters in the exhaust headers, to conform to California's emission laws.

I didn't know that but that is why I don't say I am an expert on all things BMW. The interesting thing about you explanation is that the M3 didn't meet the standard that all the other cars of the time did, the S4 didn't require this and neither did the Merc. Regardless of this, a simple re-map should have regained to lost hp or was it a case that any more tweaking wouldn't have allowed the M3 to be sold there at all.;)

[SoulBladeZA]

Black on Black ? where did you disable the seat gripping ? why drive with the gloroius sound off? rather get a Lexus then !

I just used the levers on the side to deflate the seats while in Sport mode, don't do it anyway, I like the way they grip when pushing hard.

I sometimes use sport for the hell of it, but in SA it's seldom a good idea to flash your cash too much. That's why I like the fact that the RS4 doesn't look too different from boggo 1.8T A4s. Then there's also the female speed and sound governor...

[wild-rs4-man2]

I just used the levers on the side to deflate the seats while in Sport mode, don't do it anyway, I like the way they grip when pushing hard.

I sometimes use sport for the hell of it, but in SA it's seldom a good idea to flash your cash too much. That's why I like the fact that the RS4 doesn't look too different from boggo 1.8T A4s. Then there's also the female speed and sound governor...


why dont you use the menu system ?

[SoulBladeZA]

why dont you use the menu system ?

Don't have MMI, car was bought at delivery mileage with a lot of options (incl. the R42 000 seats!!!! MADNESS), 19" etc, at way below base price. Has everything except Nav and MMI.

[Leadfoot]

[quote=M3_SMG;103636]That was my point. Mixed up dRon with Mon. My point was that their 93 = our 95 etc etc. They get up to 98 dRon at some pumps aswell. Check Sunoco's website

There is very few states that stock higher than 93RdON so you basically have to use 93, this is why the cars like the RS4 are re-mapped to suit, otherwise they would be quoting a lower power figure.

[SoulBladeZA]

Well that means they have at least the same fuel quality as us and the RS4 is quoted as making 309kW as sold in SA. It's also quite fast at the coast, being tested by our biggest mag at 4.65 0-100, doing a 7500rpm clutch dump. Up here at Johannesburg altitude the parasitic losses of the Quattro really hamper it though, doing the same style pull-away sees it bogging to just above 3000rpm and then pulling from there. The extra altitude losses simply cannot overcome the admittedly huge traction that Quattro offers.

Regardless of your view of my driving skill, you can't argue with the facts. On the rolling run with the M5 it DESTROYED me, he even let me get a jump. Normally I wouldn't even bring up the lack of performance of the RS4 at our altitude as a very small % of cars in the world operate at 5500ft above sea level, but this particular thread is all about exactly that.

The 17% power loss affects the RS4 more than it does an M car, due to them not having the penalty of extra drivetrain losses and extra weight afforded by having Quattro. An E46 M3 sadly IS a match for an RS4 up here, and my 335i wipes the floor with both. Replacing the 130i with a 135i soon, can't wait! Will be a little beast of note and a real killer up here in Johannesburg. 335i is getting replaced with an E92 M3, can't wait to do my own RS4 vs M3 shootout :hahahehe:

Will post a mini-review I did for a few SA forums now. Bear in mind any references made to speed etc. is based on my experiences with the car at Johannesburg altitude and thus do not represent the car's full potential at coastal altitudes.

[SoulBladeZA]

So I felt like a bit of hooning earlier, seeing as I can't sleep. Pulled out teh RS4 and headed off to some deserted backroads with one co-pilot who was supposed to be studying...

Anyways, hooning the RS4 is awesome. Oversteer just never happens regrettably (for me at least), even when doing VERY stupid antics the tail won't come out, the back end does get a little loose under heavy load transfers though but some throttle sorts it out quickly. Rear also gets a bit light under heavy braking, but those brakes work VERY well. They rumble a bit like M3 brakes after a few stops though... The handling is sublime, just sticks like it's on rails in corners where I was already mentally preparing to catch the oversteer, just never happened. Whether this is a good thing I'm not sure yet...

This brings me to the best part. THE SOUND. OMG, simply orgasmic! Tilt the sunroof a bit, Spawt mode on, indulge in aural pleausre. Man, what a sound. Engine pulls like a train from low revs now that it's been DF20'd, and I suppose it feels faster than it really is, but I don't care, it just goes and sounds so well. Also, the clutch is nice and light with good travel and the gearshift is a pleasure, just enough throw and it feels like a Porsche box in many ways. Smooth, but with a nice CLICK-CA-CHINK action, almost like loading a rifle.

The build quality is good, everything looks and feels good. The doors close with a satisfying THUNK. Sounds like a submarine hatch. Yes man. HOWEVER, there was one small niggle which turned out to be a HUGE headache.

The little RS4 badge in the steering wheel came loose, it always felt a bit flimsy, but it just fell out as I was cruising back on the way home...

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/448/photo0044ur0.jpg

This is what it looked like again after I spent A FCUKING HOUR crawling in and around every nook and cranny of the car until I eventually found it in a VERY frustrating little crevice :(

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/3989/photo0045ml8.jpg


Uber build quality my ass! At least none of our M cars throw away their badges! :p

Will post a short clip of a standing start running through the first 3 gears as soon as it's up.

[SoulBladeZA]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqdgTg3PrS8

Fear the bog! And yes, this is the fastest way to launch it, launching from lower revs simply sees it bogging at lower revs and slipping the clutch only makes it smell aweful whilst still not making the getaway any quicker.

[Leadfoot]

Well that means they have at least the same fuel quality as us and the RS4 is quoted as making 309kW as sold in SA. It's also quite fast at the coast, being tested by our biggest mag at 4.65 0-100, doing a 7500rpm clutch dump. Up here at Johannesburg altitude the parasitic losses of the Quattro really hamper it though, doing the same style pull-away sees it bogging to just above 3000rpm and then pulling from there. The extra altitude losses simply cannot overcome the admittedly huge traction that Quattro offers.

Regardless of your view of my driving skill, you can't argue with the facts. On the rolling run with the M5 it DESTROYED me, he even let me get a jump. Normally I wouldn't even bring up the lack of performance of the RS4 at our altitude as a very small % of cars in the world operate at 5500ft above sea level, but this particular thread is all about exactly that.

The 17% power loss affects the RS4 more than it does an M car, due to them not having the penalty of extra drivetrain losses and extra weight afforded by having Quattro. An E46 M3 sadly IS a match for an RS4 up here, and my 335i wipes the floor with both. Replacing the 130i with a 135i soon, can't wait! Will be a little beast of note and a real killer up here in Johannesburg. 335i is getting replaced with an E92 M3, can't wait to do my own RS4 vs M3 shootout :hahahehe:

Will post a mini-review I did for a few SA forums now. Bear in mind any references made to speed etc. is based on my experiences with the car at Johannesburg altitude and thus do not represent the car's full potential at coastal altitudes.

I can't argue with what you are saying and this might explain why you guys are finding different results from the rest of us.

I agree with the baby M1 (135i) a giant killer in the making.

[SoulBladeZA]

I can't argue with what you are saying and this might explain why you guys are finding different results from the rest of us.

I agree with the baby M1 (135i) a giant killer in the making.

In Cape Town or Durban the RS4 is king, E46 M3 is taken care of and the 335i is even further behind.

Turbo's rule up here! Stock 335's are doing over 200kW ATW :bigeyes: Stock M3's and RS4's only manage 180ish, with the strong ones making a bit more. Hopefully the 135i will make the same power, will be the altitude king.

The S3 is also a little demon though, chipped ones also yielding 200kW+ ATW, very impressive from the 2.0TFSI. 200kW ATW in a small car like the 135i or S3 is enough to run with bigger cars like M5s, E55's and even Gallardo's at this altitude :bigeyes:

[Vorsprung]

Soulblade, I'm glad to see your reviews are a little more objective these days, than being just BMW biased as they used to be in the past... :applause:

I suppose owning an RS4 now has somewhat broadened your perspective on things.

You're 100% in what you say though. JHB 1650m altitude kills the RS4's full potential. 95 Octane fuel doesnt help the cause either. Turbo cars rule the streets of JHB when it comes to straight line performance. But as you say, take these comparisons to coastal cities, and the RS4 is a MONSTER. Here in Australia, RS4's have been tested on par with M6's and M5's to the 1/4mile, and well ahead on the 0-100km/h launches. RS4's are considered the king here.

But owning an RS4, I'm sure you're also appreciating the car for more than just its performance. The build quality, looks, engine sound, short gear shift etc is to me what makes the RS4 such a great package as a whole.

thanks for your reviews. Keep em coming, with plenty of pics! :thumb: :rs4addict

[3x5PSI]

In Cape Town or Durban the RS4 is king, E46 M3 is taken care of and the 335i is even further behind.

I would agree the RS4 is faster. But as you can see in some of the links I posted its closer than you think even at sea-level. IN durban, the boys have been running with the RS4's & winning more than they losing. There have been some modified E36 M3's that have taken out RS4's at the Toll & petroport. As you guys know there is nowhere to hide at the Toll. If you have the horsepower you WILL come past as its a 3km drag. But the RS4's haven't been doing well there. They do better at the Quarry which is an 800m drag.

And I diasgree that an Audi loses "less" power than an M car. They lose the same. We all breathe the same air. We are all effectively getting 17% less oxygen in each stroke up here. Sure the VANOS might be alter the valve timing more effectively to adapt to the thinner air but that's not gonna' magically make more oxygen in the chamber. It's gonna' be maybe 1% better.

[Leadfoot]

I am curious to hear how you are comparing to the likes of a 997 Carrera and Carrera S, is it still a case of the M3 winning more than they lose, both are rwd but the Porsche has superior traction off the line.

[wild-rs4-man2]

I would agree the RS4 is faster. But as you can see in some of the links I posted its closer than you think even at sea-level. IN durban, the boys have been running with the RS4's & winning more than they losing. There have been some modified E36 M3's that have taken out RS4's at the Toll & petroport. As you guys know there is nowhere to hide at the Toll. If you have the horsepower you WILL come past as its a 3km drag. But the RS4's haven't been doing well there. They do better at the Quarry which is an 800m drag.

And I diasgree that an Audi loses "less" power than an M car. They lose the same. We all breathe the same air. We are all effectively getting 17% less oxygen in each stroke up here. Sure the VANOS might be alter the valve timing more effectively to adapt to the thinner air but that's not gonna' magically make more oxygen in the chamber. It's gonna' be maybe 1% better.


Yea and as i said in the beggining my B6 S4 performed much better at the coast ( 17 % , no FSI ) BUT my b7 RS4 did NOT have that much of a differance ( 8 % , i would then only assume that the FSI helps at higher altitudes )

I am just comparing differances from the NON FSI to the FSI,, ALL I know is that it seems to Help up Here in JHB (Thrashing M3s )

[M3_SMG]

Yea and as i said in the beggining my B6 S4 performed much better at the coast ( 17 % , no FSI ) BUT my b7 RS4 did NOT have that much of a differance ( 8 % , i would then only assume that the FSI helps at higher altitudes )

I am just comparing differances from the NON FSI to the FSI,, ALL I know is that it seems to Help up Here in JHB (Thrashing M3s )

RS4 does not thrash M3's in JHB man. Soulblade who OWNS an RS4 even says so. In fact he states that E46 M3 is a match for the RS4. Whats so hard for you to understand ?

If you are so confident then bring your RS4 and i will bring the M3.

Oh and by the way a European magazine has tested the E92 M3 and its 0 - 100 time is 4.4 as tested by them. Also did the 1/4 mile in the low 12's

RS4 what ?

[tvrfan]

RS4 does not thrash M3's in JHB man. Soulblade who OWNS an RS4 even says so. In fact he states that E46 M3 is a match for the RS4. Whats so hard for you to understand ?

If you are so confident then bring your RS4 and i will bring the M3.

Oh and by the way a European magazine has tested the E92 M3 and its 0 - 100 time is 4.4 as tested by them. Also did the 1/4 mile in the low 12's

RS4 what ?

dude you cant compare the E92 M3 with the B7 RS4. because, B7 = facelift from B6, and B7 RS4 is to be compared with the E46 M3. wait then you can compare the B8 RS4 with new M3 thats it. ;-) understand?

[Leadfoot]

RS4 does not thrash M3's in JHB man. Soulblade who OWNS an RS4 even says so. In fact he states that E46 M3 is a match for the RS4. Whats so hard for you to understand ?

If you are so confident then bring your RS4 and i will bring the M3.

Oh and by the way a European magazine has tested the E92 M3 and its 0 - 100 time is 4.4 as tested by them. Also did the 1/4 mile in the low 12's

RS4 what ?

Not it start up another argument but I have it on good authority that the next RS5 and RS4 will both be using forced induction, so I reckon you guys up in JHB should consider changing brands when these two come out as 3x5PSI states that up there it's the turbos which rule the streets.

[M3_SMG]

dude you cant compare the E92 M3 with the B7 RS4. because, B7 = facelift from B6, and B7 RS4 is to be compared with the E46 M3. wait then you can compare the B8 RS4 with new M3 thats it. ;-) understand?

Huh, i wasnt the one that brought it up. Mr Wild---a-a-x-x-x-x brought it up.

You want to compare the RS4 (2006) to the E46 M3 (2001). By the way Audi were so scared what the E92 M3 would do to the RS4 they stopped production on it.

[SoulBladeZA]

I would agree the RS4 is faster. But as you can see in some of the links I posted its closer than you think even at sea-level. IN durban, the boys have been running with the RS4's & winning more than they losing. There have been some modified E36 M3's that have taken out RS4's at the Toll & petroport. As you guys know there is nowhere to hide at the Toll. If you have the horsepower you WILL come past as its a 3km drag. But the RS4's haven't been doing well there. They do better at the Quarry which is an 800m drag.

And I diasgree that an Audi loses "less" power than an M car. They lose the same. We all breathe the same air. We are all effectively getting 17% less oxygen in each stroke up here. Sure the VANOS might be alter the valve timing more effectively to adapt to the thinner air but that's not gonna' magically make more oxygen in the chamber. It's gonna' be maybe 1% better.

True the Audi loses the same power at the flywheel, but it now has less power to overcome the parasitic losses of AWD and the extra weight afforded by it. In a country like SA where we never have snow etc. AWD is rather moot IMO, it does however flatter the driver much more than a high powered RWD car as it is more forgiving. Me? I like a bit of danger...

[SoulBladeZA]

Not it start up another argument but I have it on good authority that the next RS5 and RS4 will both be using forced induction, so I reckon you guys up in JHB should consider changing brands when these two come out as 3x5PSI states that up there it's the turbos which rule the streets.

For pure drag racing yes, can't beat the tehbohs. An M3/RS4 N/A will always be more fun to drive though and you can't beat the throttle response on a twisty road.

[Leadfoot]

The argument that Quattro flatters the driver isn't really true, a true rear bias awd system does that, like the one in a Porsche 997 or a R8 but not the normal Quattro system, it's abilities lay in never letting the driver get to out of control that it can't be brought back.

I understand most of you lot from S.Africa especially the M3/5 member of the group are in to drag racing, but how many do track racing? The difference between what a Quattro system is doing on the track and a good Professional driver in a race is actually one and the same, controlling grip, when traction is lost at the rear and in turn forward motion is greatly reduced so neatness is what rewards a good lap time, it might not be the most entertaining way to travel of the track but then again how many F1/DTM etc drivers are complaining that they never get the tail out.

But if you would like to see what makes awd so special you need to go somewhere very slippy and you will be able to this. Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-de2BOHfM5Q) Notice how the awd system is shifting the power to the wheels with most grip, it's amazing to watch.

[wild-rs4-man2]

dude you cant compare the E92 M3 with the B7 RS4. because, B7 = facelift from B6, and B7 RS4 is to be compared with the E46 M3. wait then you can compare the B8 RS4 with new M3 thats it. ;-) understand?


not really, RS4 B7 is almost a complete change from the b7 s4,,,, Audi target was to beat M3 with the older car ( got that right )

[wild-rs4-man2]

True the Audi loses the same power at the flywheel, but it now has less power to overcome the parasitic losses of AWD and the extra weight afforded by it. In a country like SA where we never have snow etc. AWD is rather moot IMO, it does however flatter the driver much more than a high powered RWD car as it is more forgiving. Me? I like a bit of danger...


so you think the AWD is for snow !!! ,silly you ! how many BMW M3 have lost it in the corner from the N1 going into the Pretoria highway ( that lovely corner that comes back at you, the long corner just before you get alandale off ramp ,,,, many M3 have seen thier arse around that corner, I have never ever seen or heard of a S4 or a RS4 loosing it in the corner

AWD come into play even in the dry , where you M3 guys loose control to quickly

Lets go for a drive up those twisty bits at pilgrams rest , I will get down the pass and have some tea in the kruger while you are sitting in Pilgrams rest

IF you own a RS4 like you say you should know that , or do you own one,and if you own one why do you keepon slaying it,,, cuz you dont own one,, i recone you own a cooper s ( bmw wanna be )

[3x5PSI]

not really, RS4 B7 is almost a complete change from the b7 s4,,,, Audi target was to beat M3 with the older car ( got that right )

Not trying to take down the achievement but why set yout sights so low to aim for a 3.2l 252kw car released in 2000?

[audi_ch]

RS4 does not thrash M3's in JHB man. Soulblade who OWNS an RS4 even says so. In fact he states that E46 M3 is a match for the RS4. Whats so hard for you to understand ?

If you are so confident then bring your RS4 and i will bring the M3.

Oh and by the way a European magazine has tested the E92 M3 and its 0 - 100 time is 4.4 as tested by them. Also did the 1/4 mile in the low 12's

RS4 what ?


if a m3 e46 beats an rs4 b7 there is definitly something wrong with it. no doubt. Not one m3 beats my here in Germany/switzerland,not from rolling start and definitly not from a still start.

new m3, 4,4 secons, almost as fast as a gt3 997, just forget it, I havent seen the magasine here in europe, that would mean new m3 is as fast as m6 with launtch control. ha ha ha

Why you dont write sutch bullshit in the m3post, or any bmw forums.
And by the why the m3 e46 i also destroyed with my old rs4 in standart trim.

unbelivable what some people really think.

[wild-rs4-man2]

Huh, i wasnt the one that brought it up. Mr Wild---a-a-x-x-x-x brought it up.

You want to compare the RS4 (2006) to the E46 M3 (2001). By the way Audi were so scared what the E92 M3 would do to the RS4 they stopped production on it.


NOW YOU ARE really grabbing at straws, they have stopped to make way for the RS6 ( M5 KILLER ), AND SOON THE A4 B8,,, FOOL !!!

[wild-rs4-man2]

if a m3 e46 beats an rs4 b7 there is definitly something wrong with it. no doubt. Not one m3 beats my here in Germany/switzerland,not from rolling start and definitly not from a still start.

new m3, 4,4 secons, almost as fast as a gt3 997, just forget it, I havent seen the magasine here in europe, that would mean new m3 is as fast as m6 with launtch control. ha ha ha

Why you dont write sutch bullshit in the m3post, or any bmw forums.
And by the why the m3 e46 i also destroyed with my old rs4 in standart trim.

unbelivable what some people really think.


yip , MY FELLOW SA guys are so effected by the high altitude and high crime rate , they belive they are the only ones in the world with fast M3 ( FASTER THAN B7 RS4 ) maybe BMW should open factory here( to produce M3 ) in SA since SA has the fastest BMW E46 in the world !! ( stock ):lovl:

[Leadfoot]

Not trying to take down the achievement but why set yout sights so low to aim for a 3.2l 252kw car released in 2000?

Please don't start this silly nonsense again about a victory against an older model, the same has been said when the new M3 wins against the RS4. Facts are the M3 has been improving over the years, finishing with the M3 CS which gained a lot of CSL parts and in many reviewers eyes was a better car than the CSL, sure it's roots started in 2000 but the same can be said about the RS4, it's a evolution of the B7 S4 which is in itself an evolution of the 2003 B6 S4.

The RS4 was design to beat the top car at the time and that was the M3 CS and though some here will disagree but the facts are Audi succeeded in this. When BMW were designing the new M3 it more than just coincidence that they just happen to pick it's power output of 420hp and a RRP within a few £s of the RS4, in their opinion it's the car they had to beat.

[M3_SMG]

yip , MY FELLOW SA guys are so effected by the high altitude and high crime rate , they belive they are the only ones in the world with fast M3 ( FASTER THAN B7 RS4 ) maybe BMW should open factory here( to produce M3 ) in SA since SA has the fastest BMW E46 in the world !! ( stock ):lovl:

So then put up or shut up. Bring your car big mouth. I have a couple RS4's and a few 335i's for you to try. We will video tape it so there can be no dispute.

Answer me this then. Quickest RS4 on the reef recorded a 14.1 1/4 mile. My STOCK M3 did a 13.8 on the same track with a higher trap speed. The Driver of the RS4 knows how to launch and drive. Trust me.

So this is your last chance to put your money where your mouth is and race us. I doubt this is going to happen though.

Damn keyboard racers

[M3_SMG]

Please don't start this silly nonsense again about a victory against an older model, the same has been said when the new M3 wins against the RS4. Facts are the M3 has been improving over the years, finishing with the M3 CS which gained a lot of CSL parts and in many reviewers eyes was a better car than the CSL, sure it's roots started in 2000 but the same can be said about the RS4, it's a evolution of the B7 S4 which is in itself an evolution of the 2003 B6 S4.

The RS4 was design to beat the top car at the time and that was the M3 CS and though some here will disagree but the facts are Audi succeeded in this. When BMW were designing the new M3 it more than just coincidence that they just happen to pick it's power output of 420hp and a RRP within a few £s of the RS4, in their opinion it's the car they had to beat.

And trust me when i say this. The E92 M3 is going to be quicker than the RS4.

Sorry who said the E92 M3 didnt do 0-100 in 4.4

Here it is. Or was it rigged

http://mmm.os.org.za/d/1607-1/IMG_1824r1.jpg

[Leadfoot]

M3 SMG,

I think he said in Europe, but in any case this result would still be amazing if it's not just a headlining figure as no other figures were provide like 0-100 or the 1/4mile time. You see why only print the 0-60mph time if a full road test was done. If they did and it's just not here then I take it all back.

[3x5PSI]

Car & Driver got 4.4 to 60 & 12.9 1/4 mile on a VERY SLIPPERY SURFACE. The link to the test is on their front page www.caranddriver.com (http://www.caranddriver.com)

They said they will go faster when they get to VIR which has very good traction. I expect some Yank mags to get 4.2 to 60.

[M3_SMG]

Car & Driver got 4.4 to 60 & 12.9 1/4 mile on a VERY SLIPPERY SURFACE. The link to the test is on their front page www.caranddriver.com (http://www.caranddriver.com)

They said they will go faster when they get to VIR which has very good traction. I expect some Yank mags to get 4.2 to 60.

Impossible ese. No BMW can be quicker than the legendary RS4

[Leadfoot]

When I am wrong I will admit it, take note boys and follow my example, remember that.:thumb:

Interestingly the M3 and the RS4 both achieved idential 1/4mile times by C&D, so clearly the two in the States at least are very closely matched, if not the case in JHB when the two finally meet.;)

[3x5PSI]

Car & Driver got 13.2 for the RS4. That's slower than the E46 M3. In fact the E46 M3 did a really good time of 13.1. But then again VIR does have very good traction.

[M3_SMG]

When I am wrong I will admit it, take note boys and follow my example, remember that.:thumb:

Interestingly the M3 and the RS4 both achieved idential 1/4mile times by C&D, so clearly the two in the States at least are very closely matched, if not the case in JHB when the two finally meet.;)

But it wasnt on C&D's usual test strip which has a lot more traction. They even state in that review that when they get to test the car on their strip they expect the times to get better

[Leadfoot]

Funny I remember bring home from my holiday in the States a C&D mag to read on the plane and I am sure in it they quoted at the back the RS4's time was 12.9s and a speed of 111mph. I am now starting to wonder was it C&D that I bought, it must have been one of the other US mags.

Sorry guys.

[3x5PSI]

I think it was MotorTrend or Road & Track that got 12.9. They normally get the fastest time of any mag in the US.

Here's the C&D test. NOte they say, "Grip was a serious issue, we never got a perfect launch. Expect faster times ..."

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z138/au335/m3_lastpage.jpg

[Leadfoot]

I think it might have been Road & Track but as I left it in the plane I can't be sure. Also it lateral grip was 0.3G below the M3 and 0.2G below that of the S5.

[SoulBladeZA]

so you think the AWD is for snow !!! ,silly you ! how many BMW M3 have lost it in the corner from the N1 going into the Pretoria highway ( that lovely corner that comes back at you, the long corner just before you get alandale off ramp ,,,, many M3 have seen thier arse around that corner, I have never ever seen or heard of a S4 or a RS4 loosing it in the corner

AWD come into play even in the dry , where you M3 guys loose control to quickly

Lets go for a drive up those twisty bits at pilgrams rest , I will get down the pass and have some tea in the kruger while you are sitting in Pilgrams rest

IF you own a RS4 like you say you should know that , or do you own one,and if you own one why do you keepon slaying it,,, cuz you dont own one,, i recone you own a cooper s ( bmw wanna be )

After I spank you in the 335i I'll show you how to drive the RS4. Keep it mature punk.

Got stats to back up the M3s being binned? Thought not. Smoke and mirrors. IF AND WHEN an M3, just like any other car, crashes, it's because the driver was going too fast for the conditions. I don't need Quattro to drive fast in the rain, because everyone else won't have Quattro nor will I suddenly have better visibility because I have AWD. Get it? I'll drive slow in the rain regardless if I'm on a scooter or an AWD car. Also, hate to break it to you, but AWD won't help you brake better in the rain. This is how most accidents on slippery surfaces happen, going too fast for the conditions because I have ABS/ESP/AWD yo! Guess what, you can't brake, it's not the car's fault, it's yours.

I'd rather take the LIGHTER car with less understeer in the twisty bits thanks, the LSD is more than competent enough. The lighter always have better braking, better corner entry and especially mid-corner speed. The only place where the AWD car scores is on corner exit. 3/4 > 1/4 last time I checked.

AGAIN, this isn't to put down the RS4, I love it to bits. I just get fed up with the Quattro-uber-alles mentality some people have. YES, it has advantages, but not in every situation and not in the hands of every driver. Geddit?

[SoulBladeZA]

NOW YOU ARE really grabbing at straws, they have stopped to make way for the RS6 ( M5 KILLER ), AND SOON THE A4 B8,,, FOOL !!!

Doesn't make sense. BMW can produce the M3/M5/M6/Z4 M all AT THE SAME TIME. OMG! Imagine that. RS4 stopped being produced, yet you can still buy EVERY other B7 A4 car here? Get real dude, the pulling of the RS4 is VERY suspect in my book. Why pull it? They wouldn't have lost any sales IMO.

[SoulBladeZA]

yip , MY FELLOW SA guys are so effected by the high altitude and high crime rate , they belive they are the only ones in the world with fast M3 ( FASTER THAN B7 RS4 ) maybe BMW should open factory here( to produce M3 ) in SA since SA has the fastest BMW E46 in the world !! ( stock ):lovl:

At the coast the RS4 is faster, up here it can't run away from an E46 M3. FACT. Random street encounters don't count, I've beaten many a M3 in my lowly 130i.

Care to disprove me?

[3x5PSI]

so you think the AWD is for snow !!! ,silly you ! how many BMW M3 have lost it in the corner from the N1 going into the Pretoria highway ( that lovely corner that comes back at you, the long corner just before you get alandale off ramp

It's weird you mention that corner. Soul & M3 SMG will remember a buddy of ours that had an accident there in the rain in a Subaru (which has 4WD BTW). It was very unfortunate as his fiance got trapped between the car & the barrier & she lost her arm in the process of removing her from the car. It was an accident & these things happen, but 4WD could not help him when he hit a puddle that was just a little too deep for the tread depth of his tyres & all 4 wheels started floating in an aquaplane situation.

But let me let you in a little secret that will prove you don't know what you are talking about. You know why people lose it there? Because like you said above the corner is like a spiral & it tightens on itself.

The 2nd part of it is worse than the 1st. What happens is that you come in too hot, go through most of the corner & then when it tightens further you panic & LIFT OFF. Lift-off oversteer happens when you unsettle the car by abruptly lifting off the throttle. It happens in any car, RWD, FWD, 4WD.

Ok so immediately you must realise the error of your post. When you lift off the throttle there is NO POWER going to any wheels. You are driving a NO WHEEL DRIVE car at that point. If you aren't on the throttle it makes no difference that the car is 4WD. Most of the people that crash there are off the throttle or actually on the brakes.

Anyway, 4WD gives you better traction, not higher cornerning speed. Lateral grip is a function of a whole heap of factors, mostly tyre & suspension related & not how many wheels are accepting power. That is a high speed 4th gear corner, most cars won't have problems with traction there unless they have 1000hp on the wheels.

[Leadfoot]

Sorry for you friend.

What you are talking about is lateral grip of the tyres, the difference between fwd, rwd and awd is what happens to each when the powered wheels over whelm the lateral grip, with fwd it's understeer which is easily controlled with a lift of throttle, to the large majority of awd systems the same applies but with rwd you go in to oversteer and lift off throttle doesn't work the same here.

But the real benefit of awd is when things get really slippy, they all have an uncanny knack of finding grip where neither fwd or rwd can find any. No benefit for you lot down in S.Africa but for the rest of us it's a worthwhile thing to have.

[wild-rs4-man2]

when you oversteer your first reaction is to take your foot off, therefore your power is in the back ( m3 ) so you continue on your slide,energy must go somewhere and since you dont have a drivetrain in the 2 front wheels the energy goes to the back where you are loosing it anyways !!! so bang she goes

in a awd drive (audi),, if you lose the back, same corner etc etc, the electronics help out by sending power to the front wheels hence it pulls you out of the slide and safely around the corner

now in the wet this helps even more !!!


in a corner for the average guy a AWD is much better, on the track it is different cuz you can make the back step out , but you dont have to negotiate a barrier on the side of the highway ( corner to midrand )

come on dude ,, surely you went on the advanced drving course if you have a RS4 , i have been at leat 4 times and drove the M3 and felt the disadvantage of loosing the back

As many many many car test have said " you have to be a absolute fool to loose it in a RS4 "


BUT as you said about your friend in the Scubby , IF YOU OVERCOOK IT IN A CORNER , and if you are going above the norms of grip not AWD will not help you


WE all know AWD is safer ,, but you have the fastest M3 IN THE WORLD and now the most safest !!!

[3x5PSI]

The benefit of 4WD is that it can distribute the tractive load between 4 tyres instead of 2. THAT'S IT. That is all 4WD does.

But wait, there is a benefit to this. The forces acting on a tyre are cumulative. So if you trying to accelerate & corner at the same time the sum of forces acting on the tyre add up until the tyre runs out of grip. So yes, 4WD sends some of the tractive force to the rear so there is more grip available at each tyre for pure cornering forces.

Unfortunately my friend all cars are designed to run out of lateral grip at the front 1st. All manufacturers design their cars to understeer on the limit for safety reasons. Even an M3 or M5 will understeer before it oversteers under high lateral loads. Hence the amount of grip you have at the rear is of no significance at the point the front starts to wash. All that matters is how much load the front tyres can take. Do you agree so far?

The point at which you will start to understeer is deemed almost completely by how much grip the front tyres can handle.

What you gain on the swings you lose on the roundabouts 'cos here comes the punch-line. A RWD car has ALL of its front-end grip available for cornering. ALL OF IT. It has no power coming to the front, & hence does not have to share cornering forces with tractive forces. Hence the reason 4WD understeer before a good RWD. The 4WD is putting power to the front & cornering.

[audi_ch]

And trust me when i say this. The E92 M3 is going to be quicker than the RS4.

Sorry who said the E92 M3 didnt do 0-100 in 4.4

Here it is. Or was it rigged

http://mmm.os.org.za/d/1607-1/IMG_1824r1.jpg

speak about figures where the car is produced, also0-100kmh and not 0-93kmh.

And here we go around 4,8 as bmw officialy mentiond. Good test, the figures were overtaken like always and messured.. Propably from the officiale test in spain..

And still remember how difficult to launch a rwd car manually to get the best out of it, mean the 4,8 mentiond by bmw..

Good luck

Or maybee it is easiar on hihg altitudes due to less drag......

[3x5PSI]

in a awd drive (audi),, if you lose the back, same corner etc etc, the electronics help out by sending power to the front wheels

How on earth is it going to send power to the front when you are off the throttle?

[wild-rs4-man2]

The benefit of 4WD is that it can distribute the tractive load between 4 tyres instead of 2. THAT'S IT. That is all 4WD does.

But wait, there is a benefit to this. The forces acting on a tyre are cumulative. So if you trying to accelerate & corner at the same time the sum of forces acting on the tyre add up until the tyre runs out of grip. So yes, 4WD sends some of the tractive force to the rear so there is more grip available at each tyre for pure cornering forces.

Unfortunately my friend all cars are designed to run out of lateral grip at the front 1st. All manufacturers design their cars to understeer on the limit for safety reasons. Even an M3 or M5 will understeer before it oversteers under high lateral loads. Hence the amount of grip you have at the rear is of no significance at the point the front starts to wash. All that matters is how much load the front tyres can take. Do you agree so far?

The point at which you will start to understeer is deemed almost completely by how much grip the front tyres can handle.

What you gain on the swings you lose on the roundabouts 'cos here comes the catch-line. A RWD car has ALL of its grip available for cornering. ALL OF IT. It has no power coming to the front, & hence does not have to share cornering forces with tractive forces. Hence the reason 4WD understeer before a good RWD. The 4WD is putting power to the front & cornering.



BLAH BLAH


4WD UNDERSTEER is cuz prevoius S4 etc have a " front wheel drive ",now the rs4 has a 60 % 40 % split ,,, 60 % rear,,, but can send power whever it needs it


all of the power in the RWD drive means you can lose it in a corner

[wild-rs4-man2]

How on earth is it going to send power to the front when you are off the throttle?

who sais you are off the throttle,,, after all i am in a RS4 NO NEED TO TAKE MY FOOT OFF THE PETROL !:hahahehe:


THE electronics displace the power as needed !

[3x5PSI]

BLAH BLAH


4WD UNDERSTEER is cuz prevoius S4 etc have a " front wheel drive "

My work here is done.

[Leadfoot]

I can't believe some of the theories about what awd does. Seriously I think some of you need to go to a rally school or something because it would open your eyes to just how amazing awd is when grip is at it's minimum. You can get a awd car almost 90degree to the corner and it's still recoverable, if you are lucky 35~40degree is the limit on a rwd car.

I guarantee that any of you who haven't tried rallying in an awd car will come away rating it more entertaining than rwd.

[OzRS4]

I can't believe some of the theories about what awd does. Seriously I think some of you need to go to a rally school or something because it would open your eyes to just how amazing awd is when grip is at it's minimum. You can get a awd car almost 90degree to the corner and it's still recoverable, if you are lucky 35~40degree is the limit on a rwd car.

I guarantee that any of you who haven't tried rallying in an awd car will come away rating it more entertaining than rwd.

Couldn't agree more. Well said mate. :thumb:

[SoulBladeZA]

Couldn't agree more. Well said mate. :thumb:

No use arguiging with the indoctrined :)

[Leadfoot]

No use arguiging with the indoctrined :)

SoulbladeZA,

It's a shame that in your country you will never experience what it is like to drive on snowy roads or very slippery conditions. I understand you have a RS4 and on the most part you like it, but to truly understand what Quattro brings to the party you have to experience what it is capable of and sadly you clearly haven't had the pleasure.

I know I keep going back to the rallying experience but I am trying to drive home what a difference rwd and awd is in this situation, where on the track with it's huge run off areas rwd is in it's element but when the conditions get very slippery and there is no run off points it's so far out of it's and your comfort zone it isn't funny, it takes real skill and guts to extract the most from a rwd car in such situations. But in these conditions Quattro or almost any awd system is totally in their element, the fact that you are entering a corner totally sideways and know 100% that by flooring the throttle the car will get you round is an amazing experience and will change anyone opinion on what they are capable of achieving and which is the best for road use, especially in like I said slippery conditions.

Modern technology has taken a lot of the danger out of driving rwd and fwd cars in such situations but with it has all of the fun gone.

[wild-rs4-man2]

My work here is done.


more bias to the front wheels fool !! thats why i had " front wheel drive " in brackets,,, idiot!!!

[3x5PSI]

I thnk you should Google Torsen & Haldex, then call me an idiot. FWD S4 indeed.

[Leadfoot]

Rwd is commonly known as the trickiest set-up to control and drive quickly. Fwd and awd are much easier and though in a lot of cases rwd can be as quick if not quicker, for most people either fwd or awd will be the bests suited.

In general the people who pick fast normal rwd cars (not supercars) and especially ones like the M cars with their LSD, choose them for what the car is capable of ie. drifting and powersliding regardless of whether they have the ability to control them in such situations. This is why a lot of other road users in general regard such people as dicks, because they are doing things on the road which should be resticted to the track with their cars.

The S4 is not a front bias awd system, the earlier ones had a split of 50/50 with up to 25% of it's power goes to either axle depending on grip, the later ones are now split 40/60 with again 25% being able to go to the axle with most grip. The only system that is front bias is the Haldex system and they range from 95/5 drop to a fixed 50/50 but never more than that because they can only shift a maximum of 50% to the rear. The Bugatti Veyron works in the opposite, it's Haldax sits in the rear and the power can be shifted front.

[wild-rs4-man2]

I thnk you should Google Torsen & Haldex, then call me an idiot. FWD S4 indeed.



maybe I sould say it differently !!! , WHEN the s4 ( b6) was pushed it would still understeer ( never able to get it to oversteer ) SO when I ment " more bias " to the front i ment you would loose it on the front ,,, understeer,,, and now with the RS4 it will tend to oversteer rather than understeer



I never ment to called you a idiot, rather a fool :hahahehe:

[wild-rs4-man2]

And trust me when i say this. The E92 M3 is going to be quicker than the RS4.

Sorry who said the E92 M3 didnt do 0-100 in 4.4

Here it is. Or was it rigged

http://mmm.os.org.za/d/1607-1/IMG_1824r1.jpg



yip this is rigged !!! just the same when you purchase a radio and it sais the power is 1500 P.M.P.O

NOW I stand to be corrected,i have seen a test with a rs4 ( two years older than the new M3) and in the test the figure for 0-60 ( 0-93 kmph ) was either 4.4 or 4.5,,,,

SO DONT GET TOOOO exited when you say 4.4 -0-100 cuz it aint !! its 0-93

[3x5PSI]

-0-100 cuz it aint !! its 0-93

Actually its 96.8 km/h, but what does a fool like me know?

[wild-rs4-man2]

Actually its 96.8 km/h, but what does a fool like me know?


actally
96.5608331214 to be exact ! sorry my mistake,, now i am the fool :bow:

[Leadfoot]

There seems to be an internal argument going on between you lot that has spilled on to this forum.

Who really cares if it's point this or point that, if it achieved 4.2s to 100km/h then you take off 0.1s for the drop to the 60mph mark. End of discussion................please.

[Leadfoot]

I would like to explain to you BMW lovers why they treasure this 50/50 weight balance so much. The simply facts are when you are rwd you are basically pushing the car forward, so to much weight on the nose will make for a car which is very tail happy, plus when it does go in to oversteer it will done with the speed of a hooker removing her drawers. This weight balance works well on car which less than 400hp but after this point really more weight is needed over the rear axle to control the grip that the increase in power is demanding on it. Ferrari, MacLaren, Maserati etc. all believe that a weight balance of 46/54 or there about is a much better balance with the increased power. But Ferrari believe that this split is the optimum regardless of power and they are correct if you only interests are total grip from both end of the car.

This explains why most regard the M cars with their M-diff among the most driftable cars in the world and a known favourite of one Tiff Needle.

Thanks God fwd and awd cars aren't so weight balance dependent or we would be up shit street. :jlol:

[SoulBladeZA]

So much theory. You'd swear RWD cars fall off the road daily too. Pity practice > theory then eh? ;)

[Leadfoot]

So much theory. You'd swear RWD cars fall off the road daily too. Pity practice > theory then eh? ;)

No one is saying that. I was simply explain why BMW use the 50/50 split and other choose something different. Modern technology like DSC keeps the rwd cars on the road, I thought you knew that. ;)

[wild-rs4-man2]

No one is saying that. I was simply explain why BMW use the 50/50 split and other choose something different. Modern technology like DSC keeps the rwd cars on the road, I thought you knew that. ;)


rightly so !!!


we are not saying a RWD car will fall off the road ( dont be so sensative )

it just when a AWD ( RS4 ) is a far better handling car when pushed to the limit

[M3_SMG]

rightly so !!!


we are not saying a RWD car will fall off the road ( dont be so sensative )

it just when a AWD ( RS4 ) is a far better handling car when pushed to the limit

Oh Crap man. Yussus you okes speak utter BS. Look at the top 10 cars around Nurburgring. Tell me how many of those are AWD. The CSL gives teh RS4 a hiding around any track.

A proper driver in a well sorted RWD car will be quicker than the same calibre driver in an AWD car. AWD is "safer" for some idiots on the roads that think they are schumacher. RWD will bite you if you dont know how to control it. But dont start on AWD is "better"...KAK

[wild-rs4-man2]

Oh Crap man. Yussus you okes speak utter BS. Look at the top 10 cars around Nurburgring. Tell me how many of those are AWD. The CSL gives teh RS4 a hiding around any track.

A proper driver in a well sorted RWD car will be quicker than the same calibre driver in an AWD car. AWD is "safer" for some idiots on the roads that think they are schumacher. RWD will bite you if you dont know how to control it. But dont start on AWD is "better"...KAK



KAK YOURSELF !!
POINT 1
Around a track i will have to agree that a well tuned RWD will be slightly better than a AWD !!!,,,, WITH A PROFESIONAL DRIVER
Point 2
We are not talking of use for the cars for track we are using them on the road,,, so for the average okie,,,, AWD is better and if you say its not then you need to stop drinking Klippes !!!
like the argumnet you BMW okies have to keep on useing ,,, " uhhh the BMW M3 is better( more fun ) on the track" yes it is but who of the M3 owners use the car on the track ???? 1 % so come on!!!! drop that excuse these cars are designed for road use

If the audi WANTED a more "dangerous " car they would of made one !!! and then it would not be as safe as the current models but would be more fun !!!
As they say !!!
Vorsprung durch technique
ahhhh ,, I know why they make BMW ,,, so that you okies can do doughnuts !!! like on Carte blanch yesterday ,,,, what will be funeral be without a BMW making doughnuts !!!

Come on get a life !!! we all know how safe AWD is,,,, even if there is no snow , rain etc etc ,,, I can bet one thing fir sure lets take moderfontien onramp together in the rain,,,, I will be many many car lenghts ahead of before we reach the highway,,, well thats if you make it!!

[Leadfoot]

rightly so !!!


we are not saying a RWD car will fall off the road ( dont be so sensative )

it just when a AWD ( RS4 ) is a far better handling car when pushed to the limit


Actually that is not totally actuate, rwd is when the balance is right equally as good and even better, especially on very smooth dry surfaces with plenty of grip (Racing Tracks), it's just awd cars are a lot easier to control when pushed to the limit.

Awd come more in to it own when conditions are less than perfect and generally this conditions happens mostly on public roads.

[wild-rs4-man2]

Actually that is not totally actuate, rwd is when the balance is right equally as good and even better, especially on very smooth dry surfaces with plenty of grip (Racing Tracks), it's just awd cars are a lot easier to control when pushed to the limit.

Awd come more in to it own when conditions are less than perfect and generally this conditions happens mostly on public roads.


you are correct,,, I am always refering to road conditions ( not perfect track conditions ) that is why a AWD drive car can be pushed more,,,,, ie average driver , average road , etc etc

[Leadfoot]

A proper driver in a well sorted RWD car will be quicker than the same calibre driver in an AWD car. AWD is "safer" for some idiots on the roads that think they are schumacher. RWD will bite you if you dont know how to control it. But dont start on AWD is "better"...KAK

Sorry mate but you are only partly correct in you statement, as the calibre of driver increases the less the advantage the awd will have until the point that the driver standard improves to a level that he can control the rwd car to the limits of it's grip. Awd cars are much easier to control near the limit and their limit only results in mild understeer not oversteer which is trickier to control, especially as the speed increases.

But clearly we are talking about ideal road conditions because as things get worse the awd will have such an advantage that even a skilled driver will never approach the times of the awd car in an equally good rwd car. In fact in conditions like this even fwd will quite possibly be better, but then again you will have already known that.

It's quite clearly from your comment that you regard yourself as a hell of a pilot and no doubt you have of a couple of Le Mans wins and a F1 driver's championship under your belt to regard people who drive awd cars not capable of handling rwd ones.

Any one who calls RWD cars unsafe are talking crap, all modern cars are safe, especially in the confines on road speed limits, but like everything no car can defeat the law of physics and all need to be driven to each person's abilities. It's just that both fwd and awd cars are easier to control at the limit.

[wild-rs4-man2]

:lovl: http://images.paultan.org/uploads/2007/04/p0035761.JPG



I know this is silly but there a few advantages with the side mirrors here in SA


On a cold day in winter you can stick your " black label" beer dumpies in the side mirrors and you will know that they will be cold by the time you arrive at your mates house in springs !!:dance:

now thats " lekker kwaai " kif ek se !

:hihi:


sorry I just had to say my part ( not as though i have not said enough already ),, !!!

[cit1991]

I know this is silly but there a few advantages with the side mirrors here in SA

On a cold day in winter you can stick your " black label" beer dumpies in the side mirrors and you will know that they will be cold by the time you arrive at your mates house in springs !!:dance:

now thats " lekker kwaai " kif ek se !


sorry I just had to say my part ( not as though i have not said enough already ),, !!!

Good idea. Next time I'm down, I'll have to try that. Imagine how cold they'll be by the time I get to Secunda.

Though, I'm still not used to all the "robots" down there.

[audi_ch]

Propably, the m3 in south africa will bet the new m3 as well, because ams testet it, and the performance figures are exactly the same as the rs4 b7

0-100 km/h in 4,9 s und auf 200 16,7 s.Slalom 18m 66,7 km/h ISO Wedelgasse 138,0 km/h.

What a great car the new m3....

Rs4 b7 4doors 4wdrive...

[KK265]

Propably, the m3 in south africa will bet the new m3 as well, because ams testet it, and the performance figures are exactly the same as the rs4 b7

0-100 km/h in 4,9 s und auf 200 16,7 s.Slalom 18m 66,7 km/h ISO Wedelgasse 138,0 km/h.

What a great car the new m3....

Rs4 b7 4doors 4wdrive...
And allthough 150 kg heavier (1778kg vs 1615kg AMS test cars weights)

[wild-rs4-man2]

Hello My fellow South Africans

Have you read the latest "wiel" magazine,,, well RS4 is KING once again

As they said the RS4 is , faster , better build quality , better ride quality etc etc than the NEW M3,,,, cant wait for " car " magazine to test the two against each other


well we will wait and see !!

[SoulBladeZA]

Car Magazine (which owns Wiel) and is a MUCH bigger mag rates the M3 is the new King. What now? At least the tested the car themselves, the Wiel review isn't even from a Wiel journo, it was Steve Sutcliffe. I'll wait until they are tested side-by-side by TopCar and Car thanks.

These sensationalist reviews hold about as much water as Robert Mugabe's democracy.

[wild-rs4-man2]

Car Magazine (which owns Wiel) and is a MUCH bigger mag rates the M3 is the new King. What now? At least the tested the car themselves, the Wiel review isn't even from a Wiel journo, it was Steve Sutcliffe. I'll wait until they are tested side-by-side by TopCar and Car thanks.

These sensationalist reviews hold about as much water as Robert Mugabe's democracy.


excuse me!!!

when did car magazine test the NEW M3 !!!!, they were invited overseas to drive the car ,,, look at the plates silly !!!

They did not say the car was better than the RS4 ,,, there will be a test soon and then we will see !!!

"Wiel" , said... THE RS4 IS QUICKER , BETTER LOOKING , BETTER HANDLING, ALL ROUND BETTER !!



YOU MEAN CAR magazine is "bigger " ,,,, has more pages ???? ,, come on !!!!

[SoulBladeZA]

Learn to read before you have a fanny wobble.

Wiel is simply the Afrikaans version of Car Magazine. 70% of their articles are shared with Car, I know because I subscribe to both. Both are owned by RS&P.

Further, the dude from Car actually DROVE the new M3, IMAGINE THAT. The Wiel article on the otherhand was written by Steve Sutcliffe, editor at UK's Autocar. So all it is Autocar's article rewritten in Afrikaans for Wiel. Wiel didn't even drive the car!

Like I said, wait until they are tested side-by-side by Car or TopCar in Cape Town.

[wild-rs4-man2]

Learn to read before you have a fanny wobble.

Wiel is simply the Afrikaans version of Car Magazine. 70% of their articles are shared with Car, I know because I subscribe to both. Both are owned by RS&P.

Further, the dude from Car actually DROVE the new M3, IMAGINE THAT. The Wiel article on the otherhand was written by Steve Sutcliffe, editor at UK's Autocar. So all it is Autocar's article rewritten in Afrikaans for Wiel. Wiel didn't even drive the car!

Like I said, wait until they are tested side-by-side by Car or TopCar in Cape Town.


I am not having a wobbily,,, I drive a AWD

[wild-rs4-man2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXBtmc7CAaY&mode=related&search=


just for my old BEEMER fans here is a test with the RS4 ,,, it got 4.4 0-100 mmmmmm

Can the new M3 do that,,,, uhh dont think so , maybe you know of a test that shows that type of performance , pls let me know if you see one

:rs4addict
:rs4kiss:

[Leadfoot]

I hate to tell you SoulBladeZA, but my old mate Steve (Sutcliffe) doesn't write for CAR magazine, it's AUTOCAR. Though it is very possible he did write to piece in question.

[SoulBladeZA]

I hate to tell you SoulBladeZA, but my old mate Steve (Sutcliffe) doesn't write for CAR magazine, it's AUTOCAR. Though it is very possible he did write to piece in question.

Go read again, that's what I said.

[Leadfoot]

If Steve has come to this conclusion then it's his own because the view of AUTOCAR is that the RS4 is the slightly better car overall, but then again it's this word overall that is the grey area, some like myself prefer a car that might not entertain as much as some but offer a better balanced performance in all conditions while others look for the ultimate entertainment and being excellent in the dry and just OK in the rain.

Each to their own, Steve would be from the latter camp. ;)

[SoulBladeZA]

Just for wild rs4 dude:

E92 M3 tested by Auto magazine

Performance M3:

0-400m 12.65
0-100km-h 4.50
0-120km-h 5.95
0-140km-h 7.81
0-160km-h 9.75
0-180km-h 12.42

80-120 km-h in VI gear 7.74

Braking:

100km-h 0 33.4m
160km-h 0 87.9m

As tested weight with full options & fuel 1605kg

Lap time: 2'56".50

On the same track:

Mercedes CLK63AMG 3'07"98 (481HP)

Wow, so it is in fact NOT HEAVIER than the RS4. Hate to be the one to break this to you okes.

Also, only .1 seconds off the RS4's 4.4. And we all know what happens when you have Quattro, helps on the launch after that it's just extra weight and losses. 12.65 1/4 mile is SMOKING.

[audi_ch]

why you dont mention that he was on michelin pilot sport cup+ tyres.....

[Leadfoot]

Just for wild rs4 dude:

E92 M3 tested by Auto magazine

Performance M3:

0-400m 12.65
0-100km-h 4.50
0-120km-h 5.95
0-140km-h 7.81
0-160km-h 9.75
0-180km-h 12.42

80-120 km-h in VI gear 7.74

Braking:

100km-h 0 33.4m
160km-h 0 87.9m

As tested weight with full options & fuel 1605kg

Lap time: 2'56".50

On the same track:

Mercedes CLK63AMG 3'07"98 (481HP)

Wow, so it is in fact NOT HEAVIER than the RS4. Hate to be the one to break this to you okes.

Also, only .1 seconds off the RS4's 4.4. And we all know what happens when you have Quattro, helps on the launch after that it's just extra weight and losses. 12.65 1/4 mile is SMOKING.


Great results, the only fly in the ointment is the weight, AUTOCAR tested one which though had a few opinions wasn't near fully loaded and it's weight was 1625kgs. Me thinks if the AUTO magazine tested weight is correct then BMW are up to their old tricks :nono: , not surprising when you consider it's recent reviews haven't been that great.

[SoulBladeZA]

Maybe Autocar's test included a driver? Who knows, I know the Auto Mag test doesn't include driver though.

Hardly surprising that the M3 runs similar times to the RS4, they aren't very far apart in weight and have similar power figures. Some people (both in the BMW and Audi camps) can't seem to see past this though.

[SoulBladeZA]

why you dont mention that he was on michelin pilot sport cup+ tyres.....

Because it wasn't? M3s come with special tyres yes, but they are hardly cups or semi-slicks. They are set up to induce mild understeer at the limit for "safer" handling for the masses. Those seeking more thrills can simply fit other tyres.

[Leadfoot]

Maybe Autocar's test included a driver? Who knows, I know the Auto Mag test doesn't include driver though.

Hardly surprising that the M3 runs similar times to the RS4, they aren't very far apart in weight and have similar power figures. Some people (both in the BMW and Audi camps) can't seem to see past this though.

As for the similar in their times well I am not surprised but most of your BMW co-owners must be, as they pipe on about power at the wheels etc and based on dyno figures this would be very unusual to see the heavier and less powerful (Power To Wheel) RS4 all but matching the M3's time.

But if you take dyno figures with a pinch of salt and look at the true power to weight figures then both should post similar times and surprise, surprise this just happens to be the case.

[wild-rs4-man2]

yea

you bmw guys have to look really hard to find a good test for the M3 ,but anyway happy hunting


did you see the bloke on the weekend caught doing 260km in the 120 km zone in his nissan skyline,,, i saw the car at the " motor show " on the weekend ,, funny how i did not see any RS4 there,,, either they are to good,,, hehe or they dont play those childish games like getting some smoke from the rears ( green and red smoke ekse !! )

All the test I see on the bloddy M3 they have to get smoke out the rears !!! come on grow up , get a life,,, get a AWD ,,mmmm

[SoulBladeZA]

Maybe the RS4 guys were just to scared to enter into Ultimate Street Car...

There sure were a lot of M cars.

Have you ever considered that getting the car sideways is fun? It's VERY addictive balancing the car on the throttle. But that isn't anything you'd know about.

[Leadfoot]

Maybe the RS4 guys were just to scared to enter into Ultimate Street Car...

There sure were a lot of M cars.

Have you ever considered that getting the car sideways is fun? It's VERY addictive balancing the car on the throttle. But that isn't anything you'd know about.

Try getting a car totally out of shape in a forest with trees either side and doing 80mph plus.

Only the brave and foolish apply.:D

[BigRick]

Maybe the RS4 guys were just to scared to enter into Ultimate Street Car...

There sure were a lot of M cars.

Have you ever considered that getting the car sideways is fun? It's VERY addictive balancing the car on the throttle. But that isn't anything you'd know about.

Maybe fun but sooooo useless... maybe you're also doing donuts with your car :doh:

Going sideways is something all real pilots are trying to avoid as much as possible. The only thing you get out of this is a smoke show and premature tire wear. Nothing you want during a real race.

Automobile constructors are spending big buck trying to keep the rear end stable (by adding down force or some electronics) and you still think this is funny! With Quattro we don't have to struggle with the throttle to keep the car on the pavement. And if you really feel like you need to go sideways then simply induce it and you'll be going 90 degrees (nothing you can really achieve with RWD) this is real sideway not semi sideway like what you do... The nice thing here is that this is a voluntary manoeuvre that leads to the car being sideways... not an error from the driver.

Never thought going sideways was that much of a deal in evaluating the performance of a car... after all I really thought cars were meant to be driven facing in the direction they’re going... but maybe I missed the point :vhmmm:

[wild-rs4-man2]

Maybe the RS4 guys were just to scared to enter into Ultimate Street Car...

There sure were a lot of M cars.

Have you ever considered that getting the car sideways is fun? It's VERY addictive balancing the car on the throttle. But that isn't anything you'd know about.



yea in most instances the rs4 would lose , 1/4 mile etc etc ,but the RS4 is no a schoolboy racer ( as said by Jermary ) , it is a mature ( over 18 ) sports car ,with safety and comfort etc etc,,,, but each to its own:rs4kiss:

The M3 is fun,, but standing at the pearly gates is not so fun !!:bye:

[Leadfoot]

There sure is no love lost among you S.African boys. You would almost feel it was personal.;)

[wild-rs4-man2]

well well well

soulblade!!!

what do you say now,, the new m3 was tested in cars in action, at altitude( 1400 M),, and the winer was RS4

IT beat the m3 in a 0-100, quater mile, etc etc ,, it was a very narrow margin but it still beat the !!! , so there is your altitude test that you were so eargerly waiting for but sorry for you the RS4 came out tops !!!

the olnly real advantage the M3 has was on the track,but as I said before who buys these cars to go around the track ( and it only just beat the RS4 ) But i am sure if the rs4 was in the right hands it would beat the M3 around the track,,, but who cares Audi RS4 is the king of the road once again,,

here are the specs !!

Audi rs4

0-100 5.4 SEC
QUATER MILE 13.5 SEC
1KM 24.5 SEC

BMW M3
0-100 5.6 SEC
QUATER MILE 13.8 SEC
1 KM 24.9 SEC

CLOSE BUT STILL A WIN !!!


VIVA RS4

[Leadfoot]

This is an amazing result and proves once again that the quattro drive-train has no noticeable lose over BMW's rwd set-up.

[SoulBladeZA]

ROFL. Cars in Action, their times are never accurate. New M3 doing the exact same 1/4 mile as the E46 M3. They test at Wesbank which is currently being demolished, there is so much dust there that the guys at Ultimate Street Car called it a rally stage :D They tested an E60 M5 a while back, 13.7. HAHAHAHAHAHHA. 3 M5s and 1 M6 have run at Tarlton, all ran late 12s first time out. Must be rigged. Hell I even have the vids. CiA = BIG pinch of salt.

Seriously though, just traded the 130i on an 06 M3 with 6000km. Figured I might as well have the last of an era. Flying down to East London on Friday to pick it up. What say we have some friendly races when I return? ;) I drove a new M3 last week and it was MUCH faster than my mates' SMG E46 M3.

[Leadfoot]

SoulBladeZA,

I can understand why you doubt the figures as I too do the same when I know that the results are not what should be expected. But if you examine the results of the test you can see that both performed badly off the line, possibly to do with the surface or the altitude but I reckon it's the latter as even the RS4 performed badly and it is less effected by surfaces.

Audi rs4

0-100 5.4 SEC
QUATER MILE 13.5 SEC
1KM 24.5 SEC

BMW M3
0-100 5.6 SEC
QUATER MILE 13.8 SEC
1 KM 24.9 SEC

So if you forget the actual times and concentrate more on the differences between the two cars you will see that both maintain this gap. Clearly the two cars are evenly matched, in this the RS4 was victorious and possibly the next it will be the M3 but the point is there isn't the drivetrain lose through the quattro system that so many believe there is and it has only been able to be shown since the M3 matched the RS4's power output.

I think there has been to many results to not believe what I am saying is true. :brag: Dyno machines are a great tool but not so great at measuring quattro type systems. ;)

[The RS6]

They test at Wesbank which is currently being demolished, there is so much dust there that the guys at Ultimate Street Car called it a rally stage :D

So?
There were same conditions for both the M3 and the RS4. The RS4 WON, again, for the 534th time, learn to live with that BMW boys :hihi:

[BigRick]

Leadfoot, you know why they're not usefull for comparing 4wd and 2wd... it's easy. These two front wheels need to move when on the tarmac something that is not taken into account when only measuring the rear wheels on a dyno. If someone was to factor-in the friction these wheels generate then everyone would see that the powerloss is not that great if any!


SoulBladeZA,
I think there has been to many results to not believe what I am saying is true. :brag: Dyno machines are a great tool but not so great at measuring quattro type systems. ;)

[KK265]

VIVA RS4
Are there scans please?

[wild-rs4-man2]

ROFL. Cars in Action, their times are never accurate. New M3 doing the exact same 1/4 mile as the E46 M3. They test at Wesbank which is currently being demolished, there is so much dust there that the guys at Ultimate Street Car called it a rally stage :D They tested an E60 M5 a while back, 13.7. HAHAHAHAHAHHA. 3 M5s and 1 M6 have run at Tarlton, all ran late 12s first time out. Must be rigged. Hell I even have the vids. CiA = BIG pinch of salt.

Seriously though, just traded the 130i on an 06 M3 with 6000km. Figured I might as well have the last of an era. Flying down to East London on Friday to pick it up. What say we have some friendly races when I return? ;) I drove a new M3 last week and it was MUCH faster than my mates' SMG E46 M3.



come on dude !!!!! excuses excuses !!! not accurate ,,, please man!!!!





so much for accuracy , topcar " tested " the cars against each other ,,, what a f@#$#$ up of a test , in the review they stated that the RS4 was tested at a higher temp , ie 6 deg c, I know in my car for eg att 22 deg c the car is ok but at 28 deg c the car is a lot slower ,,, obviosly they realised the mistake and that is why they never published a full test,,, pity ,,, but typical South African !!!!

The test in "cars in action " was at least well done and accurate surely the end test resaults would be slightly better if the temp was lower etc etc,,,, but how can you say the " cars in action " in not accurate,,, call old Mario lupini and tell him his magazine is not accurate!


please accept it , THE RS4 is the king of the road !!!!,, honestly the M3 is a really nice car , but there can only be one winner and it has to go to the RS4, as many many many test have shown ,,, uhhhhh exept if you wanna do dougnuts !!! then the M3 is the way to go !!

:rs4kiss:



oh yes ,,, the topcar tested the RS4 with 19 inch mags and the BMW with 18 inch, I am sure this will make a defferance, ie the RS4 will perform better with 18inch , ie less rubber on the road,,, but I stand to be corrected !!! maybe Mr Leadfoot can give me his input!

[SoulBladeZA]

So your RS4 vs my E46 M3, when? Already raced the new E92 M3 with two stock E46's and it pulled big gaps.

[Leadfoot]

SoulBladeZA and wild-rs4-man2,

Can you two not get along because there is more important things than seeing if your car is quicker than mine. Can we all not have a good discussion on the merits of both cars because I personally love the new M3, it the best example of the model to date by far and EVO magazine are in agreement on this.

Who really cares which is the quicker, the differences are small enough that on anything other than a track it would be impossible to see. One is rwd and the other is awd, one is clearly better fun on the track and the other is the better on the road and safer when slippery. Chose which you prefer and be happy with your choice.:cheers:

[Mori]

My daddy's car is faster than your daddy's car!!!

[Leadfoot]

My daddy's car is faster than your daddy's car!!!

Wrong,

MY DADDY'S IS THE QUICKEST. :wo:

[wild-rs4-man2]

SoulBladeZA and wild-rs4-man2,

Can you two not get along because there is more important things than seeing if your car is quicker than mine. Can we all not have a good discussion on the merits of both cars because I personally love the new M3, it the best example of the model to date by far and EVO magazine are in agreement on this.

Who really cares which is the quicker, the differences are small enough that on anything other than a track it would be impossible to see. One is rwd and the other is awd, one is clearly better fun on the track and the other is the better on the road and safer when slippery. Chose which you prefer and be happy with your choice.:cheers:


yip I agree with you

We both have way to much of that Testosterone thing in our blood!!!

fighting over split hairs !! each car is sooo close but anyways !! nice to have a argument

did you see my Q about the tyre sizes ?

Always wondered about that !

:rs4kiss:

[SoulBladeZA]

Leadfoot, in all honesty I rate wildman is a good oke, would love to meet him and talk some kak (Afrikaans for crap) Awesome chatting to likeminded guys who are as car smitten as I am.

I just like giving him a bit of a hard time online, it's only the Internet after all :) What's really important at the end of the day is that he has a stupid grin on his face when he's piloting his car

[Mori]

What's really important at the end of the day is that he has a stupid grin on his face when he's piloting his car

Respect. :incar:

[wild-rs4-man2]

Leadfoot, in all honesty I rate wildman is a good oke, would love to meet him and talk some kak (Afrikaans for crap) Awesome chatting to likeminded guys who are as car smitten as I am.

I just like giving him a bit of a hard time online, it's only the Internet after all :) What's really important at the end of the day is that he has a stupid grin on his face when he's piloting his car


yip how true !!!!

you must see my grin on my face when I went to the coast again last week,,,,, wow !!

See ya soon !! ( maybe on the road in JHB )
:rs4kiss:

[SoulBladeZA]

yip how true !!!!

you must see my grin on my face when I went to the coast again last week,,,,, wow !!

See ya soon !! ( maybe on the road in JHB )
:rs4kiss:

Know exactly what you mean, flew down to East London to collect the M3, man it pulls like a steamtrain down there. Up here it's still decently fast but lacks that extra bit of oomph :nana:

Haven't had the RS4 at the coast yet, but had the ex E60 M5 at the coast. Was chirping it on the 3-4 shift :bow:

[wild-rs4-man2]

Know exactly what you mean, flew down to East London to collect the M3, man it pulls like a steamtrain down there. Up here it's still decently fast but lacks that extra bit of oomph :nana:

Haven't had the RS4 at the coast yet, but had the ex E60 M5 at the coast. Was chirping it on the 3-4 shift :bow:

yea ,,, this is what started the whole " episode" was that the RS4 performes well up in JHB , Must be the FSI,,,,, NOT that the beemers dont perform, its just that the latest FSI in the Audi Engine does a better job than the older non FSI engines

But the bloody cops are all over Natal SO the only place I could have a bit of fun was at toll gates and stop streets ,,,, 0-100 ( 4.65 ) THEN ONTO 130 and then la la la cruse control at 130 km

:rs4kiss:

[Leadfoot]

I was always under the impression that the M3 had a similar system to the RS4's FSi system, is this wrong?

[wild-rs4-man2]

I was always under the impression that the M3 had a similar system to the RS4's FSi system, is this wrong?

I am not sure about BMW M3 engine , all i know is that at altitude I had a hard time with a BMW ( S4-B6, NO FSI )

Mr Soulblade , since you are a new proud owner of a M3 you might be able to shed some light on the engine ,,,, ( FSI ?? TYPE !! )

[SoulBladeZA]

I am not sure about BMW M3 engine , all i know is that at altitude I had a hard time with a BMW ( S4-B6, NO FSI )

Mr Soulblade , since you are a new proud owner of a M3 you might be able to shed some light on the engine ,,,, ( FSI ?? TYPE !! )

No FSI on the M3 engine, but the VANOS does advance the timing a bit which liberates an extra 1 or 2 % power over most N/A cars.

Took it to K.A.R. last week, made 191kW ATW up here at altitude, which is VERY strong if you factor in the 17% altitude losses and a conservative 15% drivetrain loss.

The 2004 on facelifted M3s are making more power than the pre-f/l ones though, they have a few hardware changes in the engine.

We should actually take the cabs to Snail Conversions on Beyers Naude Drive, they have a 4WD Hyperpower, VERY accurate dyno. Run the M3 and RS4 on the same day 10 mins apart, would give us a better idea of the assosiated losses from altitude and transmission. There is a dyno day there tomorrow 7 October BTW.