M5board member's driving impression of E92 M3

[EKaru]

http://i18.tinypic.com/62ee5i8.jpg

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=101739

[Leadfoot]

Did you not mean ex-M5board member after comments like that.

[Ruergard]

It didn't sound that good..

Btw, I saw an Silver RS4 Avant today. Damn it looks special in traffic, like nothing else.. the wheel arches, beautiful! :love:

[KK265]

Did you not mean ex-M5board member after comments like that.
These people are used and do not understand....
See this for example:http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=101829
They still ,after 3 years of million serious problems on M5, buying these cars while hundreds of them have towed their cars again and again and again...I can not really understand them.I would sell such a car the other day.I can not spend my time in dealer garagess ..
P.S:1.If BMWs M5 ( 3 years on the market and development) are such unreliable yet what happens when they are modified?

[RussianM3_dude]

I am having lots of small issues with my RS and my previous BMs were perfect.

[KK265]

I am having lots of small issues with my RS and my previous BMs were perfect.
What issues?I am very interested to hear.Was your car even towed?Please tell us what happened and what was the solution.

[Leadfoot]

These people are used and do not understand....
See this for example:http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=101829
They still ,after 3 years of million serious problems on M5, buying these cars while hundreds of them have towed their cars again and again and again...I can not really understand them.I would sell such a car the other day.I can not spend my time in dealer garagess ..
P.S:1.If BMWs M5 ( 3 years on the market and development) are such unreliable yet what happens when they are modified?

From memory was it not the transmissions that give the most problems and not the engines like it was with the early E46 M3s.

I will give BMW this, they really do push the limits of what is possible technology wise in main stream cars. Where Mercedes and the likes have always used big capacity engines to produce the power, BMW has looked to new technology to achieve similar results and always from much smaller engines. Outside of the supercar elite I can only think of Honda who have regularly gone for as many engines producing the magic 100hp per litre mark.

They policy has always been about this 50/50 balance and this is easier achieve with a smaller engine in the nose than anything else, but pushing the limit does mean there is more of a chance for faults to occur.

You might say that BMW has had a lot of faults with their M cars but I bet you that the like of Ferrari and Lamborghini proportionally have as many if not more faults with their engines/transmissions than BMW do.

I will not knock what BMW have done to improve engine and chassis design, like Porsche, Audi etc., they have an amazing workforce capable of some truly amazing feats of engineering.

:vhmmm: I just think Audi is better. :thumb:

[RussianM3_dude]

What issues?I am very interested to hear.Was your car even towed?Please tell us what happened and what was the solution.

Loose trim times 4, bad engine sensor - engine not idling properly, bad window switch relays, gear box either needs new oil or new synchros as 1st and 2nd need a lot of effort on the move to engage, some "phantom" problems, i.e. not constant, come and go. All in 4 months.

[Leadfoot]

Loose trim times 4, bad engine sensor - engine not idling properly, bad window switch relays, gear box either needs new oil or new synchros as 1st and 2nd need a lot of effort on the move to engage, some "phantom" problems, i.e. not constant, come and go. All in 4 months.

What can I say, you are one very unlucky guy. I wouldn't say I have every been this unlucky with any of the Beemers I have own or any other car for that matter.

I reckon with all these problems you are finding every single things more irritating than it really is and I couldn't blame you for that. I hope you get shot of it and get back to normality.

[RussianM3_dude]

I have a question actually about the gearbox. I suspect I have bad synchros because while on the move, shifting the gearlever into 1st and 2nd is pretty difficult, but not a problem while at rest. So synchros/need oil/other problem???? Or is it normal?

[Ricoloco]

Try using the clutch, it´s the pedal to the left. ;)

[Leadfoot]

Try using the clutch, it´s the pedal to the left. ;)

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Man and I thought I was bad on the competition.:cheers:

[skratch]

some good reviews so far.I don't know how some give this car bad press and some love it.It seems like BMW made the car so ballanced that it can drive like a toyota when cruising around town and drive like P-car when you open it up.The engine must feel unreal,it has a ruler flat torque curve from 2k-7k and the hp is very linier as well.Where ever you are in the rev range you can drop a gear and be right at your torque peak,this engine will feel awesome on the street.After 2k it just keeps making power and the torque stays the same.It will feel like it dosnt have any week spots at all in the rev range.I think BMW limited torque to give it a flat curve,so it will pull so clean to red line.


C&D -

"is the absolute state of the art in engine and chassis technology, it remains the soulful driving machine that made its predecessors perennial Car and Driver 10Best favorites"

"the M3 charged to 60 miles an hour in 4.4 seconds. That’s 0.4 second quicker than the last M3 we tested, despite a slippery road surface and hurried test schedule. Expect the ’08 to be even quicker when we get a chance to conduct a full road test."

" the M3 can fly though a turn in second gear where most cars need third. Of course, the M3 works fine in third gear, too, and that’s what makes this new car like its forerunners—it does everything well. Fast corners, slow corners, accelerating, or braking, it’s just sensational. There’s a playful, forgiving nature to the M3 that belies its extreme abilities in the same way that a tiger cub can be cuddly-cute one moment and ferocious the next. The M3 is fun to drive fast, but it’s even more fun to drive faster. There’s no starting point where the M3 comes alive, and there’s no ragged edge where the M3 switches from tossable to treacherous."

Car Connection -

"Connecting the power to the ground is the most sophisticated, most geek-loved-upon body and suspension ever put into an M3. So many of its pieces were massaged, tweaked, revamped, or chucked and subbed out for better performing hardware, the M3 is now more a distant cousin to the other 3-Series cars than ever before."

"With its good steering feel, correcting was no big deal."

"In general the steering is crisp and direct, so put that in its credit column, too."

"this is the best-looking M3 yet."

AOL Autos -
"It's one of the easiest cars to drive fast we have ever encountered."

"This is one of those rare cars that feels more like a precision tool than a transportation device, and we want to use it some more because we like the way it feels in our sweaty hands."

"I've driven all of the previous BMW M3 models, but I've never experienced this level of acceleration, braking, steering and handling in an M3."

Top Gear -

"10/10"
Exterior: "It's pretty aggressive, full of detail, but not overblown."
"This is an engine Ferrari would be proud of"
"this is an engine that is precision itself, tyrannical perfection."
"BMW has gone for balance. Insanely fast balance, true, but balance nonetheless."
"on roads like these, brakes take a complete hammering...the M3 stoppers never break even a significant sweat"
Sound: "it's a remarkable sonic experience"
"when you really stretch, it warbles, then grunts, then screams."
"it has a vocal range that would leave Mariah Carey popping an eyeball."
"It isn't the most hardcore car BMW could have made...that's the best thing about it; its real accessible speed."
"Bring on the group tests, bring on the awards discussion meetings - I'll bring the M3."

AutoCar -

"an extremely sharp driver’s car."
"It’s clearly a very special car."

Winding Road -

"the end result makes our neck hairs bristle just as they always have"

"leaving a seemingly perfect feeling to the entire rolling experience"

"the M3 rivals the 911 at times for total drive experience"

"Frankly, we love the German muscle car demeanor and stance"

"for everyday use, they're(brakes) great units."

Star Motoring -

"Thor's Sledgehammer."

"just about annihilate everything in its path."

"tame will never be a word you associate with this car."

"it's chalk and cheese to the previous M3. And any M3 before it, for that matter."

"more race-car than road-car here."

"mix between track and tar mean a purist's pearly gates."

"brakes never faded."

"the steering was precise"

"After testing the 335i in a few guises, I wondered if the Ultimate Three could pull it off, and can today say that it does, comfortably, and on all fronts."

Wheels 24 -

"Confidence, then, is what counts. And after a tentative start, the M3 rudder delivers. So does the rest of the car, in buckets and spades."

"This all contributes to easier and faster damping, plus that razor-sharp turn-in. The Audi - already nimble and quick - just can't live to the Bee-Em on this crucial stretch of tarmac."

"Which is exactly the point at which the M3 comes back at the RS4 with such a dynamic vengeance, if not out-and-out mechanical superiority (unless the RS4 clutch turns out to be as dodgy as some suspect). It's easy pushing the Beemer over the brim. But it is just as easy to control it on the wrong side of right and flirt with chaos, before bringing it all back home."

"We're talking savage fun, in other words. Compared with the RS4's clinical control and dogged four-wheel drive tracking, the M3 guarantees a lively, free-spirited style of creative driving. "

"The Beemer has all the means to be pin sharp and brutally quick, to the point where palms might sweat.

But it also has the capacity to stretch a smile right around your head, straight into the heart.

So, when the request came, I tapped off. I didn't mind. My soul was aglow already.

It will be for some time yet.

And that from a single encounter with the most powerfully addictive drug for on-road dynamics and sheer driving pleasure this side of a million bucks, and that side of a dinkum two-seater sports car.

This car, this animal, this beast, is alive and well and living right on top of the performance-&-pleasure heap. New M3 is the oversteer, tail-happy king of unadulterated, flat-out, feel-good fun. As a ferocious monster backed-up by delicate, subtle and pliable dynamics, there is nothing to beat it."

The Globe and Mail -

"the 2008 M3 is the best-balanced, most rewarding, most track-happy M3 since the 1986 original."

"LIKES - Like

Steering immediacy, feel
Super-safe handling
Comfort
Sound
Throttle response"

Canada National Post -

"The fourth-generation M3 proves it is possible to combine passenger pampering with outright performance, and without sacrificing either."

News.com Daily Telegraph -

'It is a lion of a car, with the capacity to maraud and maul, to rip the heart out of its rivals, yet also purr like a giant kitty."

"but BMW has done a brilliant job on a car that is still the pinnacle for the brand."

"And it's not about the speed. Yes, there is speed - and more than enough for any situation, up to and including a full-on racetrack attack.
But it's the flexibility and refinement that makes the big impact. The new M3 will pull from just beyond idle in any gear, including sixth, is as quiet and comfy as any other 3-Series coupe, and makes no special demands on the driver."

"It is a car you can thrash and push and hound, really having fun at the race track. And then you can drive it back to town."

Cars in Action -

"No. M3 isn’t an easy car to drive fast — it’s rather brutal, quick and hugely rewarding in the right hands and like that, it’s a driver’s tool to the tee. Respect it and M3 will respect you back, but unlike certain rivals that will unduly reward hands without talent, if you’re not up to it, rather leave the M3’s awesome electronic assistants on when you try drive it fast."

"But if it’s a pure driving machine you are after out of that lot, I’m already willing to stick my neck out and predict the M3 will undoubtedly be that car. In my mind, it’s already the obvious choice…"

The Car Enthusiast -

"this is a high-performance rear-wheel drive sportscar that can hold its own against a Porsche 911"

"There is not a single hole in the engine's delivery and you never feel short of go. Use every last horse and all the rev counter and you are rewarded with ferocious pace accompanied by a spine-tingling, hard-edged V8 exhaust note."

"An early review of the car suggested that it suffered from excess understeer, but we reckon this was due to a sector of the test route that was coated in a thin layer of dust with precious little grip. Even at low speeds, the M3 slithered around on this road, although it was a lot of fun and perfectly controllable."

"Even on its hardest setting, the car is not uncomfortable and the system certainly helps the M3 feel light on its feet."

"the new M3 is based on the safer, more refined, more comfortable, and more capable E92 3 Series Coupé. Yes, it does weigh nearly 100kg more than the previous car, but it substantially out-performs it, uses less fuel and emits less pollutants. Yes, it does cost about £5,000 more (€12,000 more in Ireland), but I suspect that if you offered owners of the current car an upgrade package that brought their car to the elevated level of the new M3 in all areas, they'd bite your hand off at twice the price."

"Performance - *****
Engine and Transmission - ****
Ride and Handling - *****
Tactility - ****
Fuel Economy - ****
Appearance - *****"


Irish Times -

"The Boss is back"

"The new BMW M3 is set to strike fear into its many fierce competitors"

"The new M3 certainly looks the part."

"The grip is astounding"

"The steering is quite light but accurate and despite what some reviews have said so far, there is plenty of feedback from the wheel."

"when you get out to the twisty stuff this car really comes alive."

"those brakes are nothing short of brilliant."

"This is a more grown-up, more refined but more fun M3 than the last car"

"The M3 is as we expected, a faster, more refined and more aggressive evolution of the old car. But we didn't expect it to be so much fun."

MSN UK -

"The new V8 is glorious. The sound captivates first. Rich and layered, there’s character that the more Teutonic Audi RS4 lacks."

"It’s an ethereal experience. The endorphins are still flowing inside me. Staggeringly aurally intoxicating, the M3 is also ferociously fast here, battering you with speed, not just vocals (and quad exhausts treating pedestrians, too). "

"“The whole car should unify,” says Rolf Sheibner project manager for M cars. It certainly does. An hour in and I was caning the engine yet had barely considered the rest of it. The front, so agile and light, yet grippy, the assured fluidity through tricky sequences, the unflappable composure across beaten-up Spanish tarmac. Only after being taken for granted did these towering achievements dawn. It’s how the whole gels rather than individual facets that wows: the M3, not just its nose, darts into corners with weight-defying finesse. The M3, not just its rear, adopts gracefully controlled arcs (with stability disengaged) out of them."

"verdict: 5/5"

"one of the best engines you can buy."

"Performance *****
Ride & handling *****
Interior ****
Safety ****
Price ****
Practicality *****
Fuel economy **

MSN Cars verdict *****"

[RussianM3_dude]

RS4 = teh pwndz

[Leadfoot]

No doubt it's a car that has merits which should appeal to a much wider audience than ever before and it's great to see BMW adopting the kind of torque characteristic that Audi have been using for years, I say better late than never. ;)

Most of the bad press seems to centre around the steering, gearbox and ride/handling and before you go all on the defencive, I mean it's not that bad just not the same crispness that use to be there. The ride/handling I personally put this down to the trick suspension, I believe it will perform a lot better with standard springs and dampers but it will be firmer in the process but be better balanced and this should aid the steering no end. The gearbox is a bigger problem, the same things have been addressed towards the M5 manual, so is it a problem that BMW are finding, that it's tricky to get the smoothness that is experienced with their normal cars to combine with the durability needed to cope with the power.

I like the looks, especially in silver and steel grey but I still have a problem with the interior design and the quality of the materials, it's just not up to Audi's high standards or their sense of style.

To some up, a great car that with some Audi touches could have been amazingly brilliant. :jlol:

[maybachgt]

"the M3 can fly though a turn in second gear where most cars need third"
wouldn't that mean its going slower through the turns??

[skratch]

"the M3 can fly though a turn in second gear where most cars need third"
wouldn't that mean its going slower through the turns??

I think they are talking about its high red line.Most cars can't rev that high and the M3 might have a long second gear.

[Leadfoot]

I think they are talking about its high red line.Most cars can't rev that high and the M3 might have a long second gear.

You might be right, the rumour is that a delimited M3 will reach 195mph, so unless it's got a very long 6th though I reckon the gears are well spaced, then 2nd gear could reach 70mph or even higher.

[maybachgt]

Got it but going through a turn in 2nd won't make in any better looking IMO

[KK265]

You might be right, the rumour is that a delimited M3 will reach 195mph
GT3 and 996 GT2, 996 X 50 killer?Same as 430?I doubt it......

[Leadfoot]

GT3 and 996 GT2, 996 X 50 killer?Same as 430?I doubt it......

Hey, I'm only repeating what I was told, it's not gospel. :looking:

And not to start another argument but the GT3 kick out roughly the same power, if this wasn't do-able for an M3 then surely the same can be said for a GT3. The last time I looked weight didn't play that much of a role in top speed, aerodynamics did .:eye:

[KK265]

Hey, I'm only repeating what I was told, it's not gospel. :looking:

And not to start another argument but the GT3 kick out roughly the same power, if this wasn't do-able for an M3 then surely the same can be said for a GT3. The last time I looked weight didn't play that much of a role in top speed, aerodynamics did .:eye:
Porsche always have more v-max than competitors.No argument.

[Leadfoot]

Porsche always have more v-max than competitors.No argument.

I don't know about that, the Carrera GT isn't the quickest and neither is the 997TT or the GT2 when compared to the competition.

Anyway, as for the M3's topspeed, like I had it's what I was told but I will tell you this, the true topspeed of a S5 is close on 180mph not the 155mph limiter that is meant to be there. ;)

[Speedou]

Would say it is very possible that M3 has very big top speed. It can beat Porsche and etc. Just because there is no spoilers and other things increasing air resistance.

[Leadfoot]

Just a word of warning to those of you wanting to de-limit your M3, Brabus engineers while talking to editors from Autocar who where doing a comparison test of V-Max speeds between a Brabus, M5, Vauxhall Lotus Carlton and a Monaro stated that they took the limiter over the old V8 M5 to see what it was go for and it run 185mph for 3 minutes and then blew up. Lots of laughing in German and said Brabus build their cars for maximum speed.

[KK265]

Would say it is very possible that M3 has very big top speed. It can beat Porsche and etc. Just because there is no spoilers and other things increasing air resistance.

BMW M3 E 46 v-max without limiter =280 km/h
Porsche 996 carrera coupe (300 PS)=280 km/h
Porsche 996 GT3 (360 PS)=302 km/h
Porsche 996 GT3 (380 PS)=306 km/h
Porsche 997 carrera (325 PS)=285 km/h
Porsche 997 s carrera (355 PS)=293 km/h
Maserati 4200 GT (390 PS)=285km/h
Ferrari 360 Modena (400 PS)=295 km/h
Ferrari 348 GTB (320 PS)=277 km/h
Aston Martin V8 Vantage (385 PS)=280 km/h
Aston Martin DB7 coupe (335 PS)=269 km/h
Do you see any problem with Porsche spoilers?Me not...The reverse.

[Leadfoot]

What's the max for the new GT3 (415hp), is it not 193mph(308km/h). I reckon at some point we will see a video on YOUTUBE of a new M3 reaching that magic speed, I only hope the vid stays long enough to see if it blows up in the process.

[KK265]

What's the max for the new GT3 (415hp), is it not 193mph(308km/h). I reckon at some point we will see a video on YOUTUBE of a new M3 reaching that magic speed, I only hope the vid stays long enough to see if it blows up in the process.
310 km/h for 997 GT3 (Sport auto 7/2006).
Lamborghini Gallardo E-gear (500 PS)=309 km/h
Brabus CLK 5.8 V8 (400 PS)=286 km/h
Brabus C V8 (426 PS)=302 km/h
So perhaps on speedo of an M you can see anything.I doubt if the new M3 can reach 310 km/h....M boss recently told that inan M5/M6 you can see on speedo 360 km/h!!!Like Enzo.....:rotflmao:

[Leadfoot]

Well, remember the other crap he talked about.

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showpost.php?p=100847&postcount=1

The man's an idiot.

[skratch]

Heres an M6 going well over 200mph with 4 people in the car and it DOSN'T blow up

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/1e8abd95-9afb-42f1-b2f9-980900405e28.htm

[KK265]

Heres an M6 going well over 200mph with 4 people in the car and it DOSN'T blow up

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/1e8abd95-9afb-42f1-b2f9-980900405e28.htm
Details:
1.2 people in the car
2.The car is modified to 550 PS
3.First attempt is a little bit uplill and second downhill
4.Mr.Leadfoot talks about cruising at 340 km/h for 3 min continiously not reaching and then stop.
5.M6 are not so reliable as perhaps you thing.

[Leadfoot]

Skratch,

Man, I am only reporting what was said on that day at the Brabus factory. Sure there might be a bit of back biting but I do believe what they were saying, all M engines are very highly strung, why do you think Alpina don't use them in their cars.;)

[Lateknight]

Loose trim times 4, bad engine sensor - engine not idling properly, bad window switch relays, gear box either needs new oil or new synchros as 1st and 2nd need a lot of effort on the move to engage, some "phantom" problems, i.e. not constant, come and go. All in 4 months.

Guff.....
The windows are not run through relays.

[rokke]

some things im wondering about......

why are so many "normal" drivers able to find so many things, that aren´t ok or good enough on an m3 while even experts and pro-drivers like stuck etc. loving this car to the bone and find words like "perfect" for it?
what do this m5 guys want? i dont think that ANYBODY of them is able to drive this car on its limits......i really think these guys are talking just because they want to say anything....thats just moaning on a very high level.....

greetz

[maybachgt]

Well it's true that the average m3 drive will never be able to reach its limits but they will do one thing that non of the professional drivers and 'ring lappers will do, drive it everyday and on surface roads. So both opions are just as import unless one plans on using it solely as a track car

[KK265]

Just a word of warning to those of you wanting to de-limit your M3, Brabus engineers while talking to editors from Autocar who where doing a comparison test of V-Max speeds between a Brabus, M5, Vauxhall Lotus Carlton and a Monaro stated that they took the limiter over the old V8 M5 to see what it was go for and it run 185mph for 3 minutes and then blew up. Lots of laughing in German and said Brabus build their cars for maximum speed.
Just saw this for Brabus
:harass: :http://www.need4speed.ws/video-231.html

[Leadfoot]

I did notice if they gave the explaination as to what had happened to the Rocket. Was it there?

[skratch]

I guess the BMWs are not the only engines that are prone to hight top end lol.

[Speedou]

Just a word of warning to those of you wanting to de-limit your M3, Brabus engineers while talking to editors from Autocar who where doing a comparison test of V-Max speeds between a Brabus, M5, Vauxhall Lotus Carlton and a Monaro stated that they took the limiter over the old V8 M5 to see what it was go for and it run 185mph for 3 minutes and then blew up. Lots of laughing in German and said Brabus build their cars for maximum speed.

You can think how many delimite M5 is on the autobahns and they are running fine. I know few and no problems. So what you are saying is same that if I see one RS4 blowing on the track and would say "RS4 can't be driven on track".

[Leadfoot]

The Brabus was actually being used the previous day in another video shot and was doing quite a lot of donuts etc. After the engineers got it back to the factory the problem was easily fixed and everything was fine, just a sensor.

The statement made by the Brabus engineers was their experience of the old M5, like they said 3 minutes at it's top speed blew the engine hinting that the engine wasn't design to run for long periods at such speeds. Brabus engineer their cars solely for this purpose, they are Autobahn cruisers with more bigger radiators and cooler than is normally on a Mercedes. When Nissan design the GTR for Europe they added extra coolers for the diff and gearbox solely for the purpose of long periods at high speeds. Alpina cars are designed for high speed cruising up to 200mph in some models.

I am not knocking BMW M cars, all I am saying is a word of warning for extended periods at maximum speed, the same more than likey is true for Audis and normal Mercs, but not the new RS6 it has been designed for such Autobahn antics. :hahahehe:

[Speedou]

You do have a point. I think still new cars should go some error mode before blowing, but never no. Don't want test it with my car :)

[Leadfoot]

Why fit an error mode when there is a pefect good speed limiter already fitted, why else do you think the warranty is void when removed. ;)

[skratch]

BMW will delimit your car if you track your car,and I'm almost positive that the M5 comes delimited to do 200,why would they bother giving it a 7spd when 6th goes to like 180mph.Now B is talking about the old M5 ok,name one AUDI back then that could touch the M5 ,The M5 comes with a engine,tranny,and diff oil coolers STOCK.

[Leadfoot]

It was the old M5 I was talking about not the new one. Clearly if BMW will de-limit the new M5 for you they must be sure that it's up to the job. Still no doubt the standard warranty goes out the window in the process.

[skratch]

It was the old M5 I was talking about not the new one. Clearly if BMW will de-limit the new M5 for you they must be sure that it's up to the job. Still no doubt the standard warranty goes out the window in the process.

The warenty doesnt go out the window,why would you think that?It comes like that stock.A long time ago the union got together and set a limited top speed for all cars and it was something like 155mph.That has been lifted and they especially don't limit there cars that were built for the autobahn.

I guess the mclaren F1 losses its warenty if you take it up to 240 lol,They would get sued for voiding a warenty for driving the car,legally at its max speed.I have a video of an M6 I will post it for you.

watch this bone stock M6 do over 190mph are you saying that this car lost its warenty?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DzsdSWTMug

[Leadfoot]

The warenty doesnt go out the window,why would you think that?It comes like that stock.A long time ago the union got together and set a limited top speed for all cars and it was something like 155mph.That has been lifted and they especially don't limit there cars that were built for the autobahn.

I guess the mclaren F1 losses its warenty if you take it up to 240 lol,They would get sued for voiding a warenty for driving the car,legally at its max speed.I have a video of an M6 I will post it for you.

watch this bone stock M6 do over 190mph are you saying that this car lost its warenty?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DzsdSWTMug

It wasn't the union that decided that the speed limit was imposed, VAG, BMW and Mercedes jointly decided with the German Government to impose this limit, Porsche decline saying that they built sportscars and it would have rightly hurt their business. If something comes from the factory fitted say like a limiter and then remover it's logical to expect the warranty to be void. Heck if you change anything on your car and have a problem that relates to the thing changed any company will try and get out of paying the repair.

As for the MacLaren F1 it hasn't have a limiter so why bring it up, what the logic in that. The F1 was design to travel at that speed, if not then it would have been fitted with one.:vhmmm:

If the car in the video has it's limiter remover then if the engine or something else had went tits up then trust me, BMW would have walked away. If you knew anything about the car industry you will understand that money is the only thing that's important and they don't give it away lightly. In fact some vehicles have been put on sale in the knowledge that they are very dangerous but because the profit outweighed the risk they were allowed on to the market place. This is what big business is all about everything comes down to bean counting.

[skratch]

My s4 has a limiter,does than mean it can't run up its max speed?absolutely not. I can't believe you would think the cars would be voided and cant run high rev for a sustained period of time.There was a video online that had an M3 doing top speed for over 15 min in the red and they car didn't blow up,My car has seen a beating that I would never even imagine my Audi doing at the track. I would of blown the turbos no doubt to the abuse my M has seen.Its plain silly to go around saying one of the best engine builders in the world are not reliable up top end.

that brabus car blew a turbo up top,They just said it was minor to save the embarrismant.

I have 2 blown turbos in my basement that were caused from a high heat condition when I was redlining my car racing my cousin coming from the beach.I had to pay almost 5,000 dollars to fix the S4,please I can tell you from first hand expirience that the M engine can take a crap load more abuse than an audi.The inline 6 is a pure ballanced engine from the get go.

[Leadfoot]

My s4 has a limiter,does than mean it can't run up its max speed?absolutely not. I can't believe you would think the cars would be voided and cant run high rev for a sustained period of time.There was a video online that had an M3 doing top speed for over 15 min in the red and they car didn't blow up,My car has seen a beating that I would never even imagine my Audi doing at the track. I would of blown the turbos no doubt to the abuse my M has seen.Its plain silly to go around saying one of the best engine builders in the world are not reliable up top end.

that brabus car blew a turbo up top,They just said it was minor to save the embarrismant.

I have 2 blown turbos in my basement that were caused from a high heat condition when I was redlining my car racing my cousin coming from the beach.I had to pay almost 5,000 dollars to fix the S4,please I can tell you from first hand expirience that the M engine can take a crap load more abuse than an audi.The inline 6 is a pure ballanced engine from the get go.

skratch,

Your are clearly missing my point and have gone on the defensive for simply no reason. The statement from the Brabus engineers was their experience of one M5v8, that was it. I didn't say it was to be expected of every one of them just a warning of what could happen.

Like I keep reminding you, if you or anyone other than by the express premission of BMW remove the limiter all warranties will be void. This is not to say if you happen be running to stock M car with limiter at maximum speed and it just happens to blow up that they won't foot the bill, of course they will, you haven't remover the limiter so what reason could they give.

I agree that blowers are more incline to give problems but they counter this with coolers and running at lower compression. In any case turbo technology has improve light years from the old S4 and RS4's days so I would feel very comfortable in the knowledge that they and the engine would be up to the task in hand.

Now to address the statement that the in-line 6 engine is a pure balanced engine.:vhmmm: Sorry mate but that statement is wrong on so many fronts but the main one is that all the cylinders are pushing in one direction, yes it's a lot more balanced than a 4cylinder, or any of the Vee engines but it's not even close to that of a boxer engine.

[Rutkowsky]

i'll just add that i had my M3 in 6th at 7300 rpm for quite a while and no probs. i'll take footage next time not that i need to prove anything but M cars are really tough mashines.

[Lateknight]

Removal of any factory set speed limiter COULD invalidate any warranty claim made against a component that has failed as a consequence due to the removal of this limiter. You are after all changing the manufacturers specification.
This could mean powertrain, drivetrain or suspension components could be affected.

It would be up to YOU to argue with the manufacturer that this was not the reason for the failure.
No-one is saying that the components cannot take these higher speeds, but there is an increased risk that they could fail at these higher speeds, a gamble the manufacturers would rather not take.

Not all the warranty would be invalid. This could not affect a claim on a failed electric window, for example.

Just a point for those that may have an 'ECU chipped' car. It is possible on a lot of the latest cars to measure an engines output via numerous data inputs on the latest diagnostic machines that the dealers use. If your car puts out more than the manufacturers tolerences allow, your warranty may be in jeapordy too. there would certainly be an investigation into why this could be before any relevant warranty work would be paid for.

In the cold light of day, (as Leadie pointed out) car manufacturers are there to make money. Every business is the same.

Dont think the manufacturers are there to f*ck you over though. (even though it may seem so sometimes). They need you more than you need them.

imagine;
If you had a product on the market that you spent a great deal of time getting the combination of product quality at a competitive price, and someone returned one to you under your guarantee, but it had been modified by them. :mech: Would you want to give them their money back?

[Leadfoot]

i'll just add that i had my M3 in 6th at 7300 rpm for quite a while and no probs. i'll take footage next time not that i need to prove anything but M cars are really tough mashines.

What's 6th gear pull per 1000rpm in an E46 M3?

I would have though it must be near 24mph or so which would equal 175mph(280km/h). That is something I would totally believe, in fact I wouldn't be surprise to see a little higher. But the M3 will rev to over 8000rpm were as the E39 M5 only could rev to 7300rpm, the 185+mph that the Brabus boys were talking about would mean that the M5 would have been sitting pretty close to the limit for the duration of 3minutes. Quite demanding for any engine.

But anyway why are we all making such a big deal about it, I only included in the discussions so some of you knew that shit happens and you are taking an awfully big risk running your engines without the limiter especially if precaution aren't taken, like what Brabus and the who manufacturers who's cars were design to run to the limit.

Like I told 3x5PSI, the CSL and GT3 have had a hell of a lot of money spent on them for what seems little return but the reason is they are design to race and endure very long periods at maximum revs.

[Rutkowsky]

i didn't mean to start anything, just wanted to add from my first hand experience and i had arrow over 300 km/h indicated. I didn't have gps to tell me the exact speed though. After about 30sec. or so sitting at 300 km/h the arrow slowly goes past top speed. I also have a great experience from my '98 S8 ownership, that car can take some hooligan treatment and my short 1 month ownership of RS6- can't say the same

[skratch]

The csl is nothing more than a alpha-n ecu and mass air delete,huge intake system.Every other part is the same.

An inline 6 is more ballanced than a v6/8 is all I was saying,you knew that leadie.It makes 3 power strokes per revolution of the crank and that is what gives it a natural,smooth and very high rev range.

That is also the reason why a v12 is the best engine for smoothness ,There is nothing smoother than a v12.It has a power cycle 6 times / rev There is never a unballanced power stroke on the crank.

[Leadfoot]

The csl is nothing more than a alpha-n ecu and mass air delete,huge intake system.Every other part is the same.

Would you bet your life on that statement. ;)

[skratch]

Would you bet your life on that statement. ;)

engine wise that is all,It also has a diffent exh system,but we are talking about the engines here,You can make a normal s54 into the csl.People are doing it here in the states,I know a few s54s running alpha n ecus with mass air delete.

[AudiSuperDriver]

i have 4 services on my street and all of them everyday have at least one bmw with broken engine to fix...bmw engines best in the world?when? my oppinion is other...and thefore i would like to say that every magazine who teste rs4 vs m3 said that new m3 is quieter than the RS4 who's engine sounds much better and louder than M3...and thefore BMW said that they have the best evacuation for the M3 not so "boring and lab tested" like RS4....RS4 sound much better and they are very gelous of RS4 sound...sweet...:D