Is the 3 series in trouble?

[Leadfoot]

Not only are BMW's sales falling but after reading the recent comparison test between the Mercedes C350 and the 330i in which they from the Merc to not only ride better, steer better and corner better which isn't to be unexpected considering that the Merc is a key rival and priced similarly, but recently the new Ford Mondeo had a similar result against a lesser 3 series.

Is it a case that the others have finally stepped up to the mark or is it a case that BMW have taken their eye off the ball? :eye:

[artur777]

Leadfoot, look at the volume of sales of BMW 3-series!
I don't see they fall.

The competition in automarkets rises heavily and car manufacturers finally stepped up.

[Leadfoot]

artur777,

I just wish I could lay my hand on the figures at the minute but BMW's world wide sales have dropped something like 13% this year, mainly the 5 series and 7 series but also the 1 series. Yes the 3 series is it's bread and butter so to speak and that is why I made the remark that it's most important model has for the first time had more brands beat it is reviews for things that their are normally best at.

And I repeat the statement, has BMW took it's eye off the ball.

[artur777]

Leadfoot,

in my opinion car manufacturers have periods of rise and periods of fall.
May be it's the time BMW is going to fall a little. And Mercedes was in fall during last years and now is going to rise. Audi is rising now and looks better than others.

The only chance for BMW is to change their approach and start producing better cars for customers. In my opinion, more their cars should be AWD, design and quality could be improved also.
Concluding, in all models except 3-series and X-series, BMW took it's eye of the ball.

[Leadfoot]

I think it's quality of materials, fit and finish that is most concerning. Mercedes took their eye off the ball a few years ago and look what happened to their JD Power rating, BMW still has a good rating but there is no doubt that they interior fit and finish is below that of Audi, Mercedes and Lexus. Though this was forgiven because of it's superior handling etc., now with the other equaling or in some cases bettering them this quality concerns will be a major problem soon if things don't change.

[MPT]

I think it's quality of materials, fit and finish that is most concerning. Mercedes took their eye off the ball a few years ago and look what happened to their JD Power rating, BMW still has a good rating but there is no doubt that they interior fit and finish is below that of Audi, Mercedes and Lexus. Though this was forgiven because of it's superior handling etc., now with the other equaling or in some cases bettering them this quality concerns will be a major problem soon if things don't change.

I just don't see your point at all. ALL official reports from BMW i suggesting 2007 to be a better year than any other year, regarding sales. It's natural that a certain model is more attractive to the costumers one year, and the next year the sales drop (because of the model is ageing, there is offered new models etc.) - this happenes.
Here is what the BMW sales report say: http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/08/01/056969.html

"BMW took it's eye of the ball" - i don't see this either. The build-quality of BMW have never been higher, and most models are as nicely build (interior, engines, suspension, design etc.) as an equivalent Audi, Mercedes, Lexus.

Regards.

[Leadfoot]

"BMW took it's eye of the ball" - i don't see this either. The build-quality of BMW have never been higher, and most models are as nicely build (interior, engines, suspension, design etc.) as an equivalent Audi, Mercedes, Lexus.

Regards.

Maybe your opinion of quality is different than mine, that's all. The engineering of the car is spot-on but their actual build quality and choice of interior materials are not of the standard of the others.

This has all happened after Bangle became head of design. Until BMW reverse his thinking I feel BMW will struggle to match the success that Audi are now making.

[skratch]

Leadie where did you hear that BMW 3 series sales are going down?Everything I read is that there sales are the highest they have ever been for the 3 series.

BMW hasnt even launched its flagship car yet and there sales are up,what do you think is going to happen when BMW sells its expected 100k M3s?

the c350 is a flagship c-class and should be compaired to a 335 not a 330

[Leadfoot]

skratch,

Not the 3 series, it's sales are still great, it's the rest of the range that is suffering, especially the 1, 5 and the 7 series. When they talk about 100,000 M3 they aren't talking about all of those in one year now are they.

I agree, I don't know why they choose the 330i instead on the 335i, maybe it was because their power to weight figures were more evenly match or something, but the outcome did not come down to the performance of each car but the fact that they felt the Merc was the better overall package, it handled better, it steered better, it's ride was better, it's interior was made from better quality materials and in their opinion a nice place to be, in fact with the exception of the engine (their rate the BMW in-line six as the best engine in this class and something I would agree) the Merc won everything.

So if the 335i had been chosen then the result should have been the same.

But don't get me wrong, the 3 series is one car BMW has to get right and up to now they have won almost every comparison, but with the introduction of the new C-class and the soon to be launched A4, I reckon BMW are in for rough times ahead.

[RussianM3_dude]

The C class is a much newer design and has some trick hardware to help it. Most magazines still place the 3er ahead as a driver's tool. BMW can just add the piloted suspension to the 3er as an option and be way ahead again.

[Leadfoot]

Quite possibly, but at present in this test (Autocar) the 3 series isn't as competitive as normal.

[skratch]

I don't have any trust in autocar what so ever.The 335 is basically a baby M3,It does everything the e46 does with just a hair under it.The Mag used the 330 to make the c350 look good.Why use the flagship C-class and not compair it to the flagship 3 series.The 335 is a HUGE step above the 330i,every one knows that.

[Leadfoot]

I don't have any trust in autocar what so ever.The 335 is basically a baby M3,It does everything the e46 does with just a hair under it.The Mag used the 330 to make the c350 look good.Why use the flagship C-class and not compair it to the flagship 3 series.The 335 is a HUGE step above the 330i,every one knows that.

skratch,

Knowing as I do that you are from the State I will try to enlighten you in the history of Autocar. Ever since BMW introduced the 3 series model in to the UK, Autocar have always placed it top of every test, be it against an Audi or Mercedes, in fact anything other than with a Porsche badge on it's nose.

Everyone from the UK could back this up, there is no magazine anywhere is the world that have been an avid supporter of the BMW brand than Autocar and for them to all of a sudden start placing other brands ahead in review means only two possibilities, BMW aren't good as they use to be or the others have leap frogged them and are now the much better product. The choice is yours to believe as you see fit but either way they aren't winning current tests anywhere near as frequently as their use to.

[skratch]

Leadie,thats why they choosed a 330 over the 335 so they can post a loss for the BMW.My uncle has a brand new c350 and it drives so wonderfully and so smooth.It has no driver feedback what so ever.An infant can turn the steeringwheel its so light.The car is the ultimate cruiser and its so confortable.It has nothing in the drivers segment.I agree that it should beat the 330(it does)and I would rather have the c-class over it,but the little twin turbo 335 smokes the c-350 so bad that they didn't even bother putting it up againt it.

The 335 can go heads up against the e46 M3 and comes in second barely in every test.It even beats it in some casses.Its like 2 seconds slower around the ring and even beat the z4m in some tracks.

like I said if there so respected why did they hand pick a car that everyone knoes will loose against it.

[Leadfoot]

I think the problem with a lot of tests are the choice of cars provided by the manufacturers. I the case of the C350 vs 330i, it was the C350 sport and the Beemer was the SE model. Both are great car in their own right but they aren't true direct rivals, the Merc has is trick suspension and stiffer steering response will the BMW is in it's most comfortable form.

I have watched this on numerous tests, where Audi have always supplied a S-Line model while the rest supply the SE equivalent. Also Mercedes seldom supply cars with anything other than standard size tyres and rims but the rest especially Audi supply theirs with the biggest ones on the options list.

I haven't drove the new C-class but a neighbor has just to delivery of a C220d Sport, it looks OK but not really my cup of tea. I do believe that each brand have a core of die-hard buyers who will only buy that brand and the majority on this site are those type of people. As for the rest, they go where the best price and review is.