R8 VIR times vs. the bunch

[Erik]

Consolidated VIR times from 2 different articles here it is....

1 - Chevrolet Corvette Z06 - 2:58.2
2 - Ford GT: 3:00.7
3 - Dodge Viper: 3:01.6
4 - Porsche 911 GT3 -3:01.8
5 - Chevrolet Corvette C6 - 3:03.6
6 - Lotus Exige S - 3:04.5
7 - Audi R8 - 3:04.6
8 - Porsche 911 Turbo - 3:05.8 :hihi:
9 - Shelby GT500- 3:05.9
10 - Lotus Elise: 3:09.2
11 - Porsche Cayman S: 3:09.5
12 - BMW M6: 3:10.0
13 - BMW 335i - 3:10.5
14 - Audi RS4- 3:11.2
15 - BMW Z4M - 3:11.7 ---> 2 seater M car? :hihi:
16 - Nissan 350Z: 3:12.5
17 - Mitsubishi Evo MR: 3:13.5
18 - Pontiac Solstice GXP - 3:15.7
19 - Mazda Speed 3 - 3:16.0
20 - Dodge Charger SRT8: 3:18.2
21 - Mazda RX-8: 3:19.0
22 - Chevy Cobalt SS: 3:20.6
23 - Ford Mustang GT: 3:20.9
24 - Mini Cooper S - 3:22.9
25/26 - VW GTI and Honda Civic Si: 3:24.6
27 - Mazda MX-5: 3:29.3

[KresoF1]

These resluts are pure http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/ekelig/k015.gif!

[Leadfoot]

Am I missing something, what does VIR time mean?:vhmmm:

[Mjolnir]

Am I missing something, what does VIR time mean?:vhmmm:

It's a track in Virginia that is beginning to pick up some kudos and notoriety...

http://www.virclub.com/vir/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

M

[Z07]

The Corvette C6 is faster?

[chewym]

Inconsistent. The RS4 ran very slow there. But it is quicker than the 335i in all other tests.

[Speedou]

Consolidated VIR times from 2 different articles here it is....

1 - Chevrolet Corvette Z06 - 2:58.2
2 - Ford GT: 3:00.7
3 - Dodge Viper: 3:01.6
4 - Porsche 911 GT3 -3:01.8
5 - Chevrolet Corvette C6 - 3:03.6
6 - Lotus Exige S - 3:04.5
7 - Audi R8 - 3:04.6
8 - Porsche 911 Turbo - 3:05.8 :hihi:
9 - Shelby GT500- 3:05.9
10 - Lotus Elise: 3:09.2
11 - Porsche Cayman S: 3:09.5
12 - BMW M6: 3:10.0
13 - BMW 335i - 3:10.5
14 - Audi RS4- 3:11.2
15 - BMW Z4M - 3:11.7 ---> 2 seater M car? :hihi:
16 - Nissan 350Z: 3:12.5
17 - Mitsubishi Evo MR: 3:13.5
18 - Pontiac Solstice GXP - 3:15.7
19 - Mazda Speed 3 - 3:16.0
20 - Dodge Charger SRT8: 3:18.2
21 - Mazda RX-8: 3:19.0
22 - Chevy Cobalt SS: 3:20.6
23 - Ford Mustang GT: 3:20.9
24 - Mini Cooper S - 3:22.9
25/26 - VW GTI and Honda Civic Si: 3:24.6
27 - Mazda MX-5: 3:29.3

Nicely you picked up Z4M and Porsche, but not 335 vs RS4 ;)

And yes, this test is so much BS that we haven't seen it before :nono:

[Leadfoot]

Inconsistent. The RS4 ran very slow there. But it is quicker than the 335i in all other tests.

After checking out the map of the track, I am not at all surprised that the RS4 was a bit slower than the 335i. Tight hairpins do not suit a nose heavy awd car and this track looks to have two of them, and most of the corner look quite slow (2nd/3rd gear) which again doesn't suit a nose heavy awd car.

This is not to excuse the RS4, just a fact. But the really interesting thing is the fact that the 335i beat the Z4M which after all is the M car with it's M-diff and the more track-based car, why did the 335i beat it. I think what we have here is an M car that really isn't that good, on the track or off it, like-wise the M6, with all the extra grunt it should have been mixing it with the big boys but it clearly isn't. I hope for BMW's sake the new M3 restores our faith in their products because in recent attempts their designs have been found wants.

Seven out of the first eight cars you would expect to see at the top of the list, the exception being the C6 Vette, that I think surprised everyone here.

[3x5PSI]

I'd imagine the E92 M3 will be significantly faster than a 335. 335 doesn't even have an LSD & yet it beat the RS4. They weigh similar but the RS4 has signficantly more power.

[Leadfoot]

3x5PSI,

I always seem to notice that you like to comment on how the 335i does better than the RS4 but are less willing to comment of why the Z4M did so bad or why the M6 didn't perform to the level of it's horsepower and price would expect, I know for a fact that on a track the Z4m Coupe is quicker than the last M3 on the track regardless of which track they are compared, so on a track like this it should have also beat the RS4 but it didn't and neither would the last M3. The 335i is without a doubt the best BMW since the CSL regardless of whether it has M badge or not.

I also reckon that on this VIR track the E92 M3 will beat the RS4, but there is a logical reason for this, as I have already explained. I will wait until there is a full comparison test between the RS4 and the E92 M3 to make judgement.

[3x5PSI]

OK 1stly the M6 is a GT & a bit of a pig. IT's not a car you buy for handling. You buy it to cross continents in luxury.

The E46 M3 has beaten the Z4 M around some circuits. Around others it didn't. It depends on the circuit layout.

But all that is immaterial. The Z4 did well for the power it has. The point is the RS4 & 335 are comparable. Both 4 seater family cars. 335 isn't even an M car. And it gave the RS4 a solid thump around the circuit by over a second.

[chewym]

But the RS4 destroyed the 335i on other race tracks.

Sport AUto - Nurburgring
RS4 - 8:09
335i - 8:26

Sport Auto - Hockenheim
RS4 - 1:15.4
335i - 1:17.8

Autozeitung
RS4 - 1:41.3
335i - 1:45.8

[Leadfoot]

chewym,

You are an intelligent guy, you understand why the RS4 doesn't work so well on the VIR track.:thumb:

This is for 3x5PSI, the 335i is like I said an impressive piece of kit but to think it is the match of a RS4 is plain silly and I reckon you know as much. The hype surrounding M cars is simply overrated in my opinion, the standard BMW range perform the duties of a driver's car every bit as good as the M range if not better, one of the main differences between the two is the M-diff which is exclusive to M cars and while it's purpose is valid it's not the be all and end all. The real advantage of a LSD is on tight corners like hairpins etc when the inside wheel is unloaded and spins but on everything else there is no benefit....oh, apart from show boating with the odd powerslide which the M-diff is the ultimate master of LSDs for performing such tricks.

Like I say the E92 M3 will more than likely better the RS4 on most tight tracks and so it should given it's from a chassis design that is 4 years newer. But I doubt it will have it's own way on every track and road as the bumpier the surface the more the advantage will be handed back to the RS4 with it's superior grip and more forgiving awd system.

[RXBG]

leadie. you have a point i will agree with. this track does seem to favor light cars with lots of low end grunt (torque). having only one of the two isn't enough- witness the M6. i am surprised the GT500 did what it did given it's terrible dynamics. whoever drove it was good.

given these factors the R8 deserves a cigar for its performance.

[PeterJohn]

AWD should be a benefit in tight corners. If you know how to use it, that is.

[Erik]

The article explains that the Z06 was significantly helped by the new shocks and the GT500 was hampered last time by a timing fault during its best lap. There is, however, an interesting note in the "Rules" section of the article -- three editors were the drivers, and each was assigned four or five of the cars. Makes one wonder whether noticeable differences exist between the three drivers' skills.

[3x5PSI]

But the RS4 destroyed the 335i on other race tracks.

Sport AUto - Nurburgring
RS4 - 8:09
335i - 8:26

Sport Auto - Hockenheim
RS4 - 1:15.4
335i - 1:17.8

Autozeitung
RS4 - 1:41.3
335i - 1:45.8

The Sport Auto test was done on Corsa's with optional Ceramin brakes & optional sports suspension. And with the slicks it was only 2 seconds faster around Hockenheim.

BTW I cannot believe we are comparing the mighty RS4 to a 335. 335 weighs over 1600kg as well, so its not light.

[Leadfoot]

The article explains that the Z06 was significantly helped by the new shocks and the GT500 was hampered last time by a timing fault during its best lap. There is, however, an interesting note in the "Rules" section of the article -- three editors were the drivers, and each was assigned four or five of the cars. Makes one wonder whether noticeable differences exist between the three drivers' skills.


Erik,

You are so right, TOP GEAR may be only a entertainment programme now but at least it uses professional race drivers to conduct it's tests on the track and knowing the skill of one of these drivers they only use the best available.

[sechsgang]

ya....that test has been talked about alot...most feel it an inadiquate representation of many of the cars abilities...especially the porsche...

that being said, the fact that the r8 with a normal driver can contend with those other cars with the same drivers is pretty cool