lexus LF-A

[RXBG]

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070620/FREE/70619009/1530/FREE

hopefully we'll see this beast in frankfurt. getting to sound more and more like a worthy trip to me. RS6, new A4, and maybe the TT-S. looks like 500 hp is the nice round V10 number acura and lexus are going after for their top of the line cars. and from all accounts for the R8 too, so it doesn't get left behind in the comparos.

oh, and the new skyline too, of course, though it sounds like it'll be relative unrefined, less of a cruiser and more of a track day special.

still. i tip my hat in favor of the V10 R8. but maybe i am biased :)

[Damienr8]

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070620/FREE/70619009/1530/FREE

hopefully we'll see this beast in frankfurt. getting to sound more and more like a worthy trip to me. RS6, new A4, and maybe the TT-S. looks like 500 hp is the nice round V10 number acura and lexus are going after for their top of the line cars. and from all accounts for the R8 too, so it doesn't get left behind in the comparos.

oh, and the new skyline too, of course, though it sounds like it'll be relative unrefined, less of a cruiser and more of a track day special.

still. i tip my hat in favor of the V10 R8. but maybe i am biased :)

Nope you are not biased RXBG. The R8 V10 is going to dominate it's market segment. Just look at what the V8 R8 is doing to cars with +100 HP and costing twice as much.....Audi has struck GOLD with the R8, the perfect sports car. Let's see how Lexus' entry into this market segment turns out...

[Audiphile]

It will be interesting what this Lexus can do. I am skeptical about a car maker that pretends to be build a sports car without sport car creditentials that are earned on the racetrack. Last time I checked Audi has been racing for 100 years plus with a prolific and vaunted racing heritage that is historical as well as modern (7 Le Mans wins to just name one race Audi has won). I am bias of course (no excuses from me) towards Audi, but it just seems strange for a car maker building a $100,000 plus sports car and yet they have never raced against any of the makes in this category. It might work ok selling the LS, but for me anyway, no way would I buy a pretender like Lexus. It's an oxymoron to me. Lexus must go out and challenge the likes of Audi, BMW, Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes-Benz etc. to be credible as a purveyor of performance vehicles. Otherwise, stick to rebadging Toyotas.

[Leadfoot]

Audiphile,

You have to remember that the Lexus brand is very new throughout the world, it was only invented to crack the US and in this it has been very successful. But Lexus is owned by Toyota which has been a very successful motorsports brand name for many years, in rallying, Le Mans and F1 racing, in fact they have been in more forms of high-end motorsport than Audi.

I agree with Toyota in not branding the LF-A as a Toyota, yes the Toyota brand is associated with motorsport but it's own badge couldn't carry such an expensive car. My biggest doubt about the LF-A is their previous effort, it was as nearer a luxury boat than a sportscar, has Toyota learned that to compete in this market performance is even more important than luxury.

[Benman]

...but it just seems strange for a car maker building a $100,000 plus sports car and yet they have never raced against any of the makes in this category.

Yes, it is true, Audi has won many sport events. But the R8 road car has won nothing. It is not the R8 LeMans racecar. Not the same anything, except for namesake.

Lexus HAS won races. They currently have a very successful Rolex program in the top class. Is Lexus close to Audi in it's achievements? Not even close. But as Leadie points out, they are brand new in comparison. Give em' time...

Ben:addict:

[Audiphile]

The street R8 road car does not have to race directly; yet, it carries credibility as a serious sports machine because of Audi's technology transfer (just look the ingenious design of the R8's undercarriage that ulitizes the design and technology directly from the R8 and R10 Le Mans racecars) and Audi's reputation in motor sports. I am talking about the marquee. Through racing, you achieve certain street credentials because of your success on the race track. Audi, too, has put many of its street cars in various races. Heck, they started doing that in 1912 where they dominated the rigorous Alpine Runs of the day for 4 years running.

Yes, Lexus is new at this and although they race in Rolex, the race doesn't compare to ALMS, Le Mans, or even DTM to just name a few that Audi has raced in both in street clothes and tuxedos (R8s and R10s).

I won't give the Lexus time of day, whether its their LS or their so-called sports car - never. As a European, I have no interest in them. I'll leave that to you Americans that seem to be awed by the whole rebadged Lexatoyota thing. I'll stick to my prestige brands of Audi and Mercedes-Benz. Substance over marketing gimmicks.

[Leadfoot]

Audiphile,

Are you forgetting the racing heritage of the parent company (Toyota). You can't say Lexus hasn't the heritage of Audi just because their name isn't on the bodywork of all the forms of motorsport Toyota enter.

Toyota only created Lexus to move up-market just like VW did with Audi, if Toyota bring all of the racing know-how to bare on the Lexus LF-A then I reckon we will be in for something very impressive indeed.

[Audiphile]

However, there is one major huge difference between Lexus and Audi. VW did not create Audi. Audi has existed as a separate company for over 100 years with its own DNA, culture, and heritage. Even though Audi is part of the VW Automotive Group (a new strategy adopted by former Audi CEO Martin Winterkorn), Audi is very much run as a separate entity from almost every aspect of corporate and cultural goverance and oversight. Even the top leaders of the VW Automotive Group are all Audi chieftians. Audi's finances, sales, etc. are all separate from VW and Audi operates very much as an independent company within the Group. That is sometimes why you hear the term the VW-Audi Group. You can buy separate Audi stock at somewhere at 600 Euro per share.

Lexus is not a separate company from Toyota. Its is a separate marketing and product line. For me that is big difference. Toyota does not release separate corporate figures for Lexus nor does Lexus hold a shareholders or general meeting in the way Audi does. It is like comparing apples to oranges. By the way, Audi has been upscale since the inception of Horch in 1899. It is not Audi's fault that it wound up in eastern Germany at the end of WWII and therefore had to restart from the beginning to move back upscale and recreate itself while maintaining its own identity. Luckily, as part of the VW Automotive Group, Audi has had access to resources though itself is highly profitable and cash rich to fund its own growth and development on a global scale. Same could not be said for Lexus on a global level. Moving about 450,000 units world-wide, it is not likely that Lexus is profitable in many markets other than the US.

I am sure you are very correct that Toyota could do well in various autosports, but it is not just about resources, it is about certain know how born of decades of heritage that gives Audi the credentials to not only win but be legendary. I think 7 Le Mans wins in 8 years qualifies that. I doubt that Lexus could do that so quickly if ever.

[Benman]

... I think 7 Le Mans wins in 8 years qualifies that. I doubt that Lexus could do that so quickly if ever.

Well, 8 wins in 8 years as we all know the Bentley "effort" was really Audi's...

And yes, you're correct, Toyota will never match that record, ever. To date, Mazda is still the only Japanese car manufacture to ever win Le Mans.

That still doesn't stop the LF-A from being a good car.

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

Audiphile,

You were quite right in saying that Audi had been a motor manufacturer for the best part of 100 years where as Lexus has not. But my analysis was correct when I said that VW chose to use the Audi brand name to allow them to move up market, in the same way as Mercedes used Maybach and Toyota uses Lexus. Each of these parent company have been making cars in their respective price ranges for so long that to move out of this area and move up-market require a new brand image.

Like Ben says, the road R8 has little in common with it's racing namesake bar four wheels and an engine, sure it has FSi but then again so does a Golf GTi, in fact it's engine has even more in common because it's turbo charged as well. The R8 has even less in common with Audi's motorsport heritage than about any other Audi, it doesn't even have the same awd system that most of the other Audi use which was developed in rallying.

Point is the Lexus doesn't need to have a racing heritage to be a good supercar, if Toyota bring their combined motor racing knowledge to bare on this car then it will be just as amazing as the R8 or any other supercar you care to name.

[HKS786]

Audiphile,

You were quite right in saying that Audi had been a motor manufacturer for the best part of 100 years where as Lexus has not. But my analysis was correct when I said that VW chose to use the Audi brand name to allow them to move up market, in the same way as Mercedes used Maybach and Toyota uses Lexus. Each of these parent company have been making cars in their respective price ranges for so long that to move out of this area and move up-market require a new brand image.

Like Ben says, the road R8 has little in common with it's racing namesake bar four wheels and an engine, sure it has FSi but then again so does a Golf GTi, in fact it's engine has even more in common because it's turbo charged as well. The R8 has even less in common with Audi's motorsport heritage than about any other Audi, it doesn't even have the same awd system that most of the other Audi use which was developed in rallying.

Point is the Lexus doesn't need to have a racing heritage to be a good supercar, if Toyota bring their combined motor racing knowledge to bare on this car then it will be just as amazing as the R8 or any other supercar you care to name.

+1

I actually really like this Lexus. I think it's a good move. If they can somehow keep the weight as low as possible, it will be a great machine. It's supposed to be V10 powered and it looks like it's got great aerodynamics too!

Leadie, do you think it'll have an electronic spoiler that will go up and down depending on the speed of the car? I think it's a possibility...

[roozbeh007]

it look good on the pix, but the problem with Japanese cars is that they don't keep their look. they have no soul on their cars. look at this Lexus, I bet you 6 months after it's release, it's going to look boring and unattractive.