RS600 Manual Transmission [Archive] - RS6.com

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pieron

June 9th, 2007, 13:23

Just tuned my RS6 with Sportec to 602PS (hp). In addition, I changed the factory tires and rims to...well not sure of the sizes...rims are 21", and tires are wide as hell. Lastly, I had a quick shift kit installed.

Its actually slower from 0-60 mph, but takes off like a rocket after 110mph. The car will do about 210 mph, but you couldn't stop! Brakes fail completely as there is too much rubber on the road...and a lot of weight on those tires. New brakes is a necessity.

I would like to change the transmission to manual immediately. Anybody know of a shop in Europe that can acheive this?

No matter how many horses or qs kits....a sportscar NEEDS to have a manual transmission! very expensive lesson...please learn from it!

Can anyone help with recommend companies to change the transmission to manual?

The RS6

June 9th, 2007, 14:48

Manual transmision with 600HP and 4wd...?

Hmmm that could be very expensive...

Mr Balsen

June 9th, 2007, 14:52

In Europe, MTM is the only who has done it with the RS6 CLubsport.

But this is going to be very expensive. But it is sooooo gooood after....

Cheers,
Frederic

AndyBG

June 9th, 2007, 15:22

Just tuned my RS6 with Sportec to 602PS (hp). In addition, I changed the factory tires and rims to...well not sure of the sizes...rims are 21", and tires are wide as hell...

Can you PLEASE post some pic's of that ''BEAST'' ! :addict:

rs-6

June 9th, 2007, 16:48

here you can see a movie

http://www.mtm-online.de/en/index.php?nav=5&subnav=&id=6&video_id=39#video

Mr Balsen

June 9th, 2007, 17:54

This one is the best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_eP9HhFipw

Frederic

AndyBG

June 10th, 2007, 00:20

Scary car ... ! :revs:

rs-6

June 10th, 2007, 07:15

found this on the net, don't know if this is a relyable company

Schaltgetriebeumbau auf 6-Gang-Schaltgetriebe mit Quattroantriebsstrang, jeweils in Verbindung mit Leistungssteigerung nur mit Drehmomentbegrenzung dauerhaft einsetzbar, max. Drehmoment auf Dauer 700Nm, Motorelektronikanpassung auf Schaltgetriebesteuerung
Preis: 12500,- € inkl. 16% Mwst., Montage nur in unserem Haus möglich, Umbaudauer nach Voranmeldung 10 Arbeitstage

http://www.dh-exclusiv.de/rs6_sonder.htm (http://www.dh-exclusiv.de/rs6_sonder.htm)

pieron

June 10th, 2007, 14:31

AuditudeA642

June 10th, 2007, 18:28

Let me get this straight. You added 152HP and 200 lb/tq to a 4wd car with no tire spin and the 0-60 time go slower. Can you explain why? Also a manual conversion will be extremely expensive. You are better off sending you tranmsission out to make it shift faster and hold up to all that hp. If you have 20k to blow go with the manual.

pieron

June 10th, 2007, 21:02

Slower 0-60 mph<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
That's right. The car is slower from 0-60 mph. I was waiting for someone to attack that!<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
The new turbo chargers are much bigger and take longer to spool up. This means that their maximum output is at a higher RPM. Once the RPM's are high and remain high the engine will produce greater hp, torque, and performance. This explains why the car is faster from the high end of first gear and remains faster through the rest of the gears. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
However, from a dead stop the factory turbo's spool up faster and the engine has more torque, hp, and performance at low RPM's. Yes, you could probably brake-torque her...or do a neutral drop...but i wouldn't recommend it.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
AWD<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
RS6’s are heavy. It does matter whether she’s 450hp or 600hp….she’s not going to spin all 4 tires. You will NOT have a faster beast if you buy wider tires….just a meaner looking one! <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Manual Transmission<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
I am a former RS4 (tuned 460hp) owner, and the biggest mistake i ever made was switching to an automatic transmission....how boring! I'm just trying to save you all some grief...don't do it! You minds well drive a farm tractor!<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Please keep the recommendations coming on the RS6 Manual Transmission. I will contact MTM in the morning and update everyone.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Thanks,<O:p</O:p
James.<O:p</O:p

Yahh

June 11th, 2007, 00:37

:p (sorry. couldn't resist)

pieron

June 11th, 2007, 11:20

Well even a farm tractor is faster than the new RS4! What a dog! Audi even lies about the hp, torque, and performance tests. Take it to the track and/or dyno and see for yourself.

My RS4 was already 4 years old and quite beat-up....I had to make a switch....and what choice did i have?

Porsche
been there. impratical..not enough room....great second car

BMW
been there. M3's are annoying and get there ass-kicked by tuned S3's. M5/M6's are ugly and should be destroyed!

Italian Racers
Unreliable and impractical

AndyBG

June 11th, 2007, 23:41

Come on, RS 4 isn't that slow...

After all, it's N/A car, what can you expect, it's TOTALY different 'animal'' from its predecesor B5 RS 4, you know that best for yourself, you had one.

If B7 RS 4 is to slow for you, i suggest you to take one to MTM

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12267

and see what they can do with one, maybe you will change your mind...

If this doesn't convince you, wait for thenew RS 6 or Porsche Panamera, turbo version will be 600 ps + :revs:

:cheers:

AuditudeA642

June 12th, 2007, 00:27

For you i recomend the BMW M5. Its the perfect car for you. The new RS4 is slow? Where are you living? The RS4 is an extremely fast sedan that will give any car a run for the money race.

RacerBice

June 12th, 2007, 10:07

For you i recomend the BMW M5. Its the perfect car for you. The new RS4 is slow? Where are you living? The RS4 is an extremely fast sedan that will give any car a run for the money race.

What....you mean apart from the fact that it's an UGLY FOTHERMUCKER.....? :incar:

RacerBice

June 12th, 2007, 10:08

M5/M6's are ugly and should be destroyed!

Best quote of the day..... :applause:

Leadfoot

June 12th, 2007, 10:47

This is my first post on the thread and like AuditudeA642 said it surprising to see a car with this much more power and torque would be slower.:vhmmm:

I don't doubt the output of your car, it just a bit unusual that's all. Is it possible that because of the extra grip that the automatic tranny is slipping more than normal until it get to a speed when it's able to cope.

Is the gearing been altered for topspeed?

AuditudeA642

June 12th, 2007, 14:51

I never said that i like the M5/M6 myself. I also think they are very ugly. It seems to me this car suits him the best though, It has a manual transmission, same size as the RS6 and has a potent V10.

pieron

June 14th, 2007, 01:06

M5

UGLY FOTHERMUCKER! funny shi*! Regardless of performance and options, Cars are like women....looks matter!

0-60mph slower

I don't know why everyone is having trouble with this. The enormous Sportec turbo's spool-up at about 3800 RPM, the smaller Audi factory turbo's spool up at about 2500 RPM. The factory turbo's produce a higher output a lower RPM's....the car is faster from a dead-stop with the factory turbo's. Of course the increased HP and torque from the Sportec turbo's quickly compensate and the car is much faster from 0-100mph, or 0-200mph for that matter. Sportec and MTM will warn you about this.

Manual Transmission RS6 (+600hp, +850 Nm)

50,000 EUR. Thanks Mr. Balsen!
I had a long conversation with the Chief Mechanic at MTM. You would not believe the modifications that have to be made to put a 6-speed into an RS6 with 602 HP, and 863 Nm...actually have to change the block. Anyway, I've made an appointment and I'll let you know how it turns out. Should be a 3.0-3.5 sec. car afterwards. Let's see.

I'm a newcomer to this sight and i think it is great to have a forum on which we all can help each other.

Thanks again to everyone. -James.

florin08

June 14th, 2007, 12:49

Should be a 3.0-3.5 sec. car afterwards. Let's see.

Damn , that`s fast :addict:

Mr Balsen

June 14th, 2007, 14:12

Damn , that`s fast :addict:

As fast as a 996 GT3 RS at Hockenheim. Not too bad for an Avant ! ! !

Frederic

AndyBG

June 14th, 2007, 14:35

...50,000 EUR. Thanks Mr. Balsen!
I had a long conversation with the Chief Mechanic at MTM....

50 000 EUR

Thay gona love YOU at MTM !

Hope that you gona come to RS6.COM meeting with that car !

pieron

June 15th, 2007, 00:03

AndyBG

June 15th, 2007, 00:25

Just for the record...its not a grocery getter (Avant)...its a Sedan...mean as hell looking.

pictures coming!

When's the meeting? I would love to come and let you boys take her for a spin!

:incar:

James.

First of all, for me it wouldn't be a problem even if it is a Avant, i like it.

Second, about RS6.COM meeting, I don't where that all talking end up...

... there was much conversation on that subject, but I don't are we reached some agreement, maybe some other member can give us some info... :eye:

Leadfoot

June 15th, 2007, 10:10

Am I the only one at a bit lose as to why changing to a manual gearbox will improve the acceleration so dramatically. Please explain how this can be possible, you say that it's acceleration is slower because of the slow spool up of the turbos, how can this improve changing to a manual. In an automatic when you floor it, the revs build and hold at a level until the speed gets to this point and only after this do the revs climb but in a manual this won't be the case and there will be little or no slip to help maintain the revs.

I would thought if anything the automatic would be the quicker of the two in much the same way as it is in the 997tt.

Sorry if this sounds so stupid. :blush:

PeterJohn

June 15th, 2007, 15:50

I would guess there is a lag b/c of the torque converter. Pressure plates versus oil bath.
I also think the RS6 gearbox evolution is closer to the Porsche 993 tiptronic, than the 997 Turbo.

Personally, I think it goes against the RS6es destiny as an autobahn cruiser. The B5 RS4 seems like a much better starting point for a project like this.
On the other hand, the contrast between the luxury car and the performance drivetrain is interesting.

pieron

June 17th, 2007, 05:12

You are right Leadfoot. Changing from an automatic gearbox to a manual gearbox would not improve acceleration. It would actually decrease acceleration, because a human cannot shift as efficient as a machine. That's why drag cars have automatic transmissions.

But, that's not the point.

I will be changing from a 4-speed to a 6-speed....and that will dramatically improve acceleration. This would be true with any RS6, however it is especially true in the case of my RS600. The large Sportec turbos will be forced to spool up quicker because of the higher gear ratios.

And, if we want to get "real" technical..... An automatic transmission has parasitic loss which strips away between 15-20% of the car's power to the ground. I am looking forward to getting that 15-20% back!

And, if we want to get "real real" technical....an automatic transmission ways approx. 75 kilograms more than a manual. This weight reduction will add another 15 HP to the car.

However, at the end of the day Leadfoot is right. Even ALL of the above gains do not compensate for the inefficiency of a human shifter, manual gear box and clutch. For that reason, a 5 or 6-speed automatic transmission would probably be the fastest solution.

But dammit Leadfoot....it just wouldn't be as much fun!

:incar:

That's all I have to say about that. - Forrest Gump

Leadfoot

June 17th, 2007, 08:52

pieron,

I was under the impression that RS6 automatics were all 5speed or is this not the case. Anyway a manual would give you back a lot of lost power and if you can always change gear correctly and quickly then I would say it's the way to go, though I could offer you an alternative which doesn't weigh any more than a standard manual, gives as good if not better economy (though I doubt this way interest you ;) ) and will out accelerate even a DSG gearbox.

http://www.torotrak.com/

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=5029

I think you might find it a much cheaper and better option, though you might have to want a couple of years.;)

pieron

June 17th, 2007, 15:33

Leadfoot,

Yes, all RS6's are 5-speed tiptronic(s), however the 5th gear is actually an overdrive gear. So, 4-speed +OD.

Great minds think alike! I actually convinced the Sales guy at Sportec to change the gear ratios of the 5-speed....and even pre-paid for it! :hahahehe:

However, the head mechanic said it was too complicated considering the Torsen Center Unit and the electronic distribution of power between the front and rear independent axels. :nono:

Anyway, below is a gear-ratios to MPH matrix for my RS600. You see my problem here. I actually only use the 5th gear until after 110mph (unless i'm cruising!).

Keep the suggestions comming...great dialog.

James.

pieron

June 17th, 2007, 15:39

AndyBG

June 17th, 2007, 16:24

4 + Overdrive...

...I didn't now that...

pieron

September 8th, 2007, 17:13

Update on the RS600-6M

MTM has renamed it 6M ("6" for the 6-Speed, and "M" for the MTM). Many parts needed to be special ordered, so the beast is still in the shop.....looks like I'll just catch the end of the summer.

Enjoy the Pic's

MTM dyno clocked her at 608 HP.

stay tuned....

AndyBG

September 8th, 2007, 18:33

This is going to be one mean machine... :revs:

Can't wait to see some vid's of it. :addict:

RussianM3_dude

September 8th, 2007, 20:16

Mori

September 8th, 2007, 21:56

Mr Balsen

September 9th, 2007, 09:22

Pieron,

Is your RS6 a sedan in Avus gray paint ? ? ?

Frederic

pieron

September 9th, 2007, 13:24

Yes. It's a Limousine. I'm not a fan of the Avant.

J.

Z07

September 9th, 2007, 15:20

This manual sounds good. Less weight and 5% more power at the wheels for any given flywheel hp.

42TT

September 12th, 2007, 05:36

Awesome project and with a 300kg in weight reduction this would scare most cars on the road, one question I have is why does the engine block need changing?

42TT

September 19th, 2007, 08:20

steve

October 3rd, 2007, 16:12

I was at MTM yesterday and heard your car being started and driven into the workshop. Amazing sound and looks! :thumb:

Mr Balsen

October 3rd, 2007, 21:12

I was at MTM yesterday and heard your car being started and driven into the workshop. Amazing sound and looks! :thumb:

I did not say anything ! ! ! !

Frederic

flash

October 13th, 2007, 22:24

Guys, I cant understand, why are you talking about the reduction of acceleration with manual transmition? I can`t understand. For example lets look at drug racers. Who of them use automatic transmission?
Other example - Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution. Their limited versions like Evo 8 FQ 400. It does 0-100 km/h in 3,5. But Mitsubishi ingeneers installed manual transmition, not sequental (with their rally expirence they could). I sopose that in good hands manual transmition is much better than any other. But unfortunately there are so few `good hands`.

Cargo8

October 14th, 2007, 01:21

i just tuned into this thread. 50,000 euros for the manual transmission in a ridiculous rs6 600 / 850.
Pieron, I have two comments:
a) You are crazy.
b) You are my idol.

LU-RS6

May 5th, 2008, 08:47

Any update/news on this conversion? I am more than interested!

Mr Balsen

May 5th, 2008, 09:02

I have looked into this upgrade further and discovered the block isnt changed it is the crankshaft, other's have used the S8 manual crankshft, fywheel and custom clutch. I would think that a custom billet flywheel to suit the RS6 crankshaft would have been a better alternative unless you itend on upgrading internals

42tt

It is a lot more than just changing the block...
Just imagine the work on the electronic (ECU, ABS and so on).

For the MTM conversion, the parts for the gearbox are around 10K euros...

Frederic

LU-RS6

May 6th, 2008, 13:11

Frederic,

Did you hear any news from the owner, is he still driving the RS6, and how is his experience?

Mr Balsen

May 7th, 2008, 07:05

Frederic,

Did you hear any news from the owner, is he still driving the RS6, and how is his experience?

Actually not. The customer is from Switzerland.

When I drove the RS6 Clubsport many times four years ago. I was really impressed.

Frederic

LU-RS6

May 7th, 2008, 09:02

Hopefully he'll return one day and share his experience too.

Mr Balsen

May 7th, 2008, 09:21

Hopefully he'll return one day and share his experience too.

I understood 'Pieron' is the owner of this RS6 mit manual gearbox !

Frederic

ZeroCool

May 7th, 2008, 19:13

@Mr. Balsen...

Yeah - he is - but he don't wrote on this thread since 9th of September 2007 (!)

Mr Balsen

May 7th, 2008, 19:16

@Mr. Balsen...

Yeah - he is - but he don't wrote on this thread since 9th of September 2007 (!)

Not suprising from somebody who has a car with MTM Kit ! ! ! !

:applause: :applause: :applause:

Frederic

pieron

May 8th, 2008, 01:02

THE JOB

Early this year the car was finished.....it was an amazing project. You can imagine how many things had to be changed.

1. The Manual Gearbox broke the entire electronic system (ECM) so the car was sent to Bosch (Germany) to be reprogrammed.

2. The Manual Gearbox breaks ABS, had to be re-engineered and re-programmed as well.

3. Power distribution between front and rear axles....a very difficult balance and a hell of a job done by MTM. This is ALL custom work....these pieces cannot be ordered they need to be engineered.( NOTE: This is the part that Sportec claimed was impossible and they refused the work.)

4. The Tires (needed for the horsepower) were so large that they created braking problems so an entire new braking system had to engineered. I think Porsche had their hands in this, or a least the parts came from Porsche.

----------------------

The last thing I want to say is that MTM is AWESOME !!

pieron

May 8th, 2008, 01:20

THE CAR

The car is absolutely incredible. Fast as hell....accelation is scary. An ENORMOUS difference between the automatic. Anyone who buys an expensive sportscar that is a tiptronic (or) automatic should REALLY THINK TWICE. I wanted to say that they are an "idiot"....and I say this only to prevent others from making the same mistake i did!

Did I mention that the car is ridicoulously fast?

I raced a Lamborghini Gallardo for about an hour a absolutely pounded it at every speed. It was a joke....and embarrasing for him with his girlfriend in the car. The Gallardo could weave in and out of traffic more efficiently, well...from what i could observe in my REAR-VIEW mirror!

I could go on and on..... but you would have to drive the car yourself to understand the power and acceleration. Although power is VERY smooth and balanced....the second gear especially is scary....you actually get nervous from the power......and anyone in the passenger seat will freak-out when you give full-gas.

Check out the pics....

pieron

May 8th, 2008, 01:40

The Police

Well....all good things must come to an end.

I was detained by the Swiss Police for speeding and the car was impounded. Mr. Balsen is correct. If this would not have happened, I would never be writing this thread....I would be out racing!

Unfortunately, one of the policeman was a huge Audi fan and realized that the car had a manual transmission. In Switzerland you have to have a Handelregistrarsauszug, (registration), which includes an exact description of the car (torque, horsepower, etc). If the registation doesn't match the car, then you have to get a new one....which involves an inspection of the car. At one point, the Swiss Police contacted Sportec because of the markings on the engine and Sportec denied the 610 Horsepower.....funny shit!

Since the Swiss Authorities would need to disassemble the car completely to make a proper inspection, we agreed that they would return the car and I would export it immediately to the US. The car arrives in the States this week.

Check out the Pics of the car at the shipping yard!

Look out Vipers....when I'm in the States you will be getting you ass kicked by a family sedan! :incar:

!
!

Cargo8

May 8th, 2008, 04:32

HAHA! Hope to see you stateside!
Glad the rig is working well for you, sounds like a monster!

LU-RS6

May 8th, 2008, 08:22

Sick car, sick experience :applause::applause:

Thanks for sharing your info.

LU-RS6

May 8th, 2008, 08:23

At one point, the Swiss Police contacted Sportec because of the markings on the engine and Sportec denied the 610 Horsepower.....funny shit!

Why would they deny? There is a "Gutachten" for this mod, no?

Mr Balsen

May 8th, 2008, 11:50

I can only agree with the sick aspect of the MTM Kit !

Only MTM has been able to developp the whole think. Nobody else in the past, nobody else in the futur except by copying MTM.

Homologation is the big issue. Because MTM has never done anything on this matter. The now famous RS6 Clubsport has no homologation paper, not even chassis identification. Back then, It was a sole prototype to developp the Gumpert Apollo.

Anyway, a normal RS6 is still a great car. You can improve the tiptronic with new ECU. Not good as the manual but still amazing !!!

Frederic

rs-mad

May 9th, 2008, 03:29

Any one have any information regarding the C6 RS6 and the turbocharger's it uses?

Ruergard

May 11th, 2008, 17:44

Sounds mean, very mean!

I'd be more than happy if you cold post some times of the car, 100-200 km/h or something like that. I'd love to see what it's capable of! :revs:

Congratz!

JAXRS6

May 20th, 2008, 23:02

The car arrives in the States this week

So it's over here now? What part of the US? Still owned by you? For sale? What's happening? You could have a blast at Daytona with that car, assuming vehicle id works out; see recent thread under events. Plus I'd like to see it, if allowed, and I'll be driving mine through six states soon: Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky, Ohio and Michigan.

vinny.dtw

July 28th, 2008, 06:37

Is this car in Michigan currently?

pieron

August 10th, 2008, 18:31

Yes!

She's now in storage -- but I was in the US for a few days and I got to drive her. She run's a bit different in the different climate. Slower during the day and much faster during the evening. I understand the laws of thermodynamics and that all combustable engines (and especially those with turbos) behave similiary, but the difference seems to be much more "noticeable" in the US.

All in all -- very happy. American's certainly aren't used to something with that kind of power -- I was destroying american muscle cars on the freeway.

If you are living in Michigan, we will definiitely hook-up for a test-ride the next time I am stateside.

Ciao,
James.

vinny.dtw

August 10th, 2008, 18:47

KfabR8

August 11th, 2008, 14:43

All in all -- very happy. American's certainly aren't used to something with that kind of power -- I was destroying american muscle cars on the freeway. Very cool - nothing like eating the locals for lunch, eh? :applause:

The the majority of US drivers and everyone in Louisiana have no clue how to drive - the fast lane is for passing, not for cruising in!

I really enjoyed driving on the Autobahn years ago. People understand how to drive there!

I still wonder what the very low yellow thing was that passed me one night. I'm guessing a Lambo or Ferrari, but I'm not sure.

There was a flash of headlights in my rearview, a sudden blurr of yellow flying by and a rumble that was awesome. The little A4 that I was in didn't stand a chance! :thumb:

Cdo

September 16th, 2008, 21:04

Thanks everyone for the responses and help.

The "beast" has 863Nm, so the above solution with "dh-exclusiv.de" wouldn't work. The tranny would get chewed-up after the first take-off.

I tried to include a picture of the dyno diagrams, but this website is too damn complicated to post a picture.

Thanks again....and please keep the suggestions coming.

Pieron, respect to the car and the power. I've raced against the mother MTM at Spa, it was quite quick during the long straight stretches..... but what's the purpose for you to have all the power? I guess the beast always will be to heavy to do some serious track-times..... added to that a lot of understeering. But do you want to ride he streets quicker than anyone else? I think the automatic gearbox fits perfect for the highway cruiser the beast is for me, besides when you once have tried DSG gearbox, this veteran gearbox is sloooooow.

/Claus

PeterJohn

September 26th, 2008, 09:50

I could go on and on..... but you would have to drive the car yourself to understand the power and acceleration.

Well, if you say I have to drive it, I guess I can make that sacrifice. :hahahehe:

Erik

September 26th, 2008, 11:01

Well, if you say I have to drive it, I guess I can make that sacrifice. :hahahehe:

Add me as well...

Do you have any pics of the interior with the stick? (sorry if I missed them) :blush:

Clubsport

January 25th, 2009, 15:57

I read all the posts and I am laughing as I am the actual owner of THE Clubsport. I broke the gearbox in september and took the time to repair it. Now i can say you that there is only one special part in the gearbox (which come from a S6 C5). THE special part is the outputshaft from AudiSport.

Cdo

March 4th, 2009, 19:59

...still just love the car and the specs. Also the fact that the car is a saloon. That's not so much of us ;)

I can see from the pictures that the car has something i really want: front "net" without the small front lights. Anybody knows where I can reach that part? Sportec is only making them for RS4 B5....

Thanks.

/Claus

Clubsport

March 4th, 2009, 20:26

Sportec is only making them for RS4 B5....

/Claus

I don't think you're right cause I asked them in december and they made also for RS6.:race:

Cdo

March 9th, 2009, 13:41

I don't think you're right cause I asked them in december and they made also for RS6.:race:

That's great news, I'll order them asap. It's a must on my beast! :addict: