TTS news.

[Iceman]

The first TTS info is surfacing.

270 hp 2.0T FSI,
Quattro,
Manual and S-tronic, ???
Bi-Xenon,
LED-lamps,
Carbon fibre options, ???
modified front bumper with additional air intakes at the sides,
platinum-grey radiator grill,
S-specific 18" wheels, (S3-S8 wheel.)
S-typical chrome/silver side-mirrors,
platinum-grey rear diffusor,
quad pipe exhaust,

No special cost colors: Sprint blue and glow orange.
A few things are in the line of the S3.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Hans,

Thanks for this great info, is there any idea on a release date?

[Leadfoot]

I take it that because of the A5/S5 launch window being around July the new TT/S will have to wait until Sept~Oct before we will see it on the roads.

[Iceman]

Hans,

Thanks for this great info, is there any idea on a release date?
2th quater 2008.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

I lot later than I thought, is there any reason for this?

[Iceman]

I lot later than I thought, is there any reason for this?
I've know idea why it need to take till the second quater of 2008.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

:vhmmm: I have one thing bugging me with the spec of this TT/S. If the car is a whole 9+ months away, how can they set the spec so early on ?

We are only really knowing the spec of the RS6 now and it's only a few months away, this does sound surprisingly early for a finished spec don't you think. :brag:

And by the way, I wouldn't be disappointed if this was it. :looking:

[Iceman]

German Audi dealers can order there showroom cars already.
The info comes partly from that.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

I see that you are unsure as to whether the TT/S will be offered with S-Tronic. Is this because of the fact that the option isn't available on the S3 ?

[Iceman]

I see that you are unsure as to whether the TT/S will be offered with S-Tronic. Is this because of the fact that the option isn't available on the S3 ?
No because the info is not availeble to confirm it.
But Audi have tested the combination during the 24h @ the nordschleife in a S3.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

No because the info is not availeble to confirm it.
But Audi have tested the combination during the 24h @ the nordschleife in a S3.

Hans.

That's interesting, how did it perform in the race and did the gearbox stand up to such a demanding race ? :stick:

P.S.

Does this mean the S3 will be getting the S-Tronic some time soon ? :D

[Iceman]

I'm not sure, but Audi made a street version of it and showed it on Wörtensee.
With 270 hp by 6500 rpm and 340 Nm of torque by 2500 rpm.
This is the same engine that will go in to the TTS.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Well Hans are you still disappointed with this new TT/S ?

I know, we all would have preferred something with a more musical note but the engine have great potential, much more than a N/A 3.2 or 3.6 unless you include the mega bucks that adding turbos will give these two. Like I have said and you already know this engine can gain 50hp for well under £1K and the turbo lag still won't be cause for concern and keep the principle of the car alive, which is the provide a stylist coupe with bags of performance for little more money than well specced small executive saloon.

I think the looks are right on the money, the alloys are great and hopefully will stand out of the options list of the standard model plus the addition of four pipes will give the rear of the a mean purposeful looks and also provide your defeated rivals something to look at while you drift off in to the distance.

[Iceman]

In the looks department there will be nothing wrong with the TTS.
But engine wise i'm still disapointed and have still my doubts.
Maybe the new quad valve exhaust will give it a dignified sound.
And i have to test drive it first to have a final opinion.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

In the looks department there will be nothing wrong with the TTS.
But engine wise i'm still disapointed and have still my doubts.
Maybe the new quad valve exhaust will give it a dignified sound.
And i have to test drive it first to have a final opinion.

Hans.

Well what is your opinions on the current versions of the TT, with and without MagneticRide ?

Personally I like the 2.0TT fwd or found the 3.2TT Quattro not an willing to change directions like the 2.0 and found that the quattro drive did little to improve the movement of the rear. Though I haven't sampled the S3, from those I have spoke to find it a much more playful things and say that extreme speeds are needed to make it understeer and the tail is much more willing to be controlled by the throttle.

Hopefully the same and more will be said about the TT/S.

[Iceman]

Magnetic Ride is a must on a TT, the normal suspension is awefull.
And i'm not happy with the two present TT models.
I don't like the 2.0T fwd at all, to much wheelspin if you push it.
The 3.2 Quattro is the better option IMHO.
But it's not that sharp in conners due to the heavy VR6.
The TTS look like a bliss, light, 4WD, lots of power with great tuning options.
But the down point will most likely be the engine sound. :rolleyes:
But the rumour is that it will have a valve exhaust system developed with the help of Lamborghini.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Magnetic Ride is a must on a TT, the normal suspension is awefull.
And i'm not happy with the two present TT models.
I don't like the 2.0T fwd at all, to much wheelspin if you push it.
The 3.2 Quattro is the better option IMHO.
But it's not that sharp in conners due to the heavy VR6.
The TTS look like a bliss, light, 4WD, lots of power with great tuning options.
But the down point will most likely be the engine sound. :rolleyes:
But the rumour is that it will have a valve exhaust system developed with the help of Lamborghini.

Hans.

Agreed about the wheelspin as the wife drives a Mk5 GTi which also suffers the same problem. Though it does feel more live in the corners than the 3.2v6, that heavy engine would always cause handling problems regardless of the power it was given.

If Lamborghini is involved in tuning the exhaust note then I'm a happy bunny. Like when was the last time you heard a bad sounding Lambo :vhmmm: .

[Iceman]

If the new TTS after some engine tuning sound like this i think i will be happy.

TT Quattro on Dyno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHi0c9WJOzg)

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

The fact that the TT/S is coming out 2rd quarter 2008 leads me to believe that if or when they get round to developing a TT/RS will be well down line, quite possibly as late as 2010, especially when you consider the amount of models that will be launched between now and then ..... RS6, RS5, possibly RS4 and the R8v10. That doesn't leave much time or men power to turn their attention to develop a TT/RS and in any case what would the effect of such a model be on the Porsche Cayenne S.

[Leadfoot]

If the new TTS after some engine tuning sound like this i think i will be happy.

TT Quattro on Dyno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaN5HGqKnTs)

Hans.

The link to the TT Quattro on dyno just take you to the standard YouTube page. What do you put in after this ?

[Iceman]

That doesn't leave much time or men power to turn their attention to develop a TT/RS and in any case what would the effect of such a model be on the Porsche Cayenne S.
You mean Cayman S right.
The Cayman boxer engine's will also get direct fuel injection.
The Cayman get 265 hp and the Cayman S 315 hp with it.

btw, How do you like the TT Quattro Dyno movie.

Hans.

[Iceman]

New movie link must work now.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

You mean Cayman S right.
The Cayman boxer engine's will also get direct fuel injection.
The Cayman get 265 hp and the Cayman S 315 hp with it.

btw, How do you like the TT Quattro Dyno movie.

Hans.

You're right, I meant Cayman not Cayenne.:doh:

If the Cayman is getting 265hp that puts it not only on level pegging with the TT/S but I guess the price will be quite close as well, lets say not more than £2K apart. I know that when they spec is matched the Porsche will most likely be £5K dearer but most look at the basic price and will see the Porsche as real value for money. It could be a hard sell for Audi.

By the way is the video of a old shaped blue TT ?

[Iceman]

TT Quattro on Dyno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHi0c9WJOzg)

I think it's black.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

TT Quattro on Dyno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHi0c9WJOzg)

I think it's black.

Hans.

I take it judging by the note from the exhaust that this is a tuned TT, what's the power output and what has been done to it ?

[Leadfoot]

One question on the spec of the TT/S if you know, what are the brakes, are they anything different to the rest of the TT range ?

[Iceman]

One question on the spec of the TT/S if you know, what are the brakes, are they anything different to the rest of the TT range ?
If my info is correct they will be the same as the RS4, RS6, R8 and Gallardo, the 8 pod caliper with big rotors/disks.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

If my info is correct they will be the same as the RS4, RS6, R8 and Gallardo, the 8 pod caliper with big rotors/disks.

Hans.

A bit over-kill for a 270hp TT don't you think.;) But saying that you never can have enough stopping power.

[Iceman]

A bit over-kill for a 270hp TT don't you think.;) But saying that you never can have enough stopping power.
I think the TTS will be close to 1400 Kg and with 270 hp and a high tuning potential i hope it will get the 8 pod calipers.

Hans.

[Iceman]

I take it judging by the note from the exhaust that this is a tuned TT, what's the power output and what has been done to it ?
I have no idea, only have one's found this video.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

I think the TTS will be close to 1400 Kg and with 270 hp and a high tuning potential i hope it will get the 8 pod calipers.

Hans.

This weight thing has be thinking. The weight of a TT2.0 is 1260Kgs while an A3 2.0 S-Line is 1430Kgs and the TT3.2Quattro is 1410Kgs while the A3 3.2S-Line Quattro is 1495Kgs.

Could someone explain to me why in the A3 the difference between these two models is only 65Kgs but in the TT the difference is 150Kgs ? :confused:

I was always under the impression that the Haldex unit weighed 50Kgs on it's own so surely the difference between the 2.0TFSi and the 3.2v6 is more than 15Kgs, but by the same measure it surely isn't the extra 100Kgs it is shown for the TT after you allow for the Quattro. I know some of this might be the differing exhaust systems but it can't count for all of it.

[Iceman]

The S3 weigh 1455 Kg thats 135 Kg more then an A3 2.0T FSI FWD.
If the same difference aply to the TT the TTS will weigh 1395 Kg.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Hans,

Unless there is something wrong with the Audi UK website's figures the A3 2.0TFSi fwd S-Line weighs 1430Kgs which isn't 135Kgs less than a S3 but actual 25Kgs.

Audi A3 2.0TFSi fwd S-Line

http://www.audi.co.uk/audi/uk/en2/new_cars/a3/a3/specifications.techdata.a3.a3.8p1c2c_2_grcmrcm_mhk a9ak.html

Audi S3

http://www.audi.co.uk/audi/uk/en2/new_cars/a3/a3/specifications.techdata.a3.a3.8p1c2c_2_grcmrcm_mhk a9ak.html


Now on the German website the A3 2.0TFSi is 1320Kgs not 1430Kgs, man am I confused.:doh:

If the German site is correct then you are correct in your estimates of just under 1400Kgs which isn't that great really. It basically means that in adding the Haldex unit they have had to add an additional 85Kgs of strengthening.:rolleyes:

[Benman]

But the down point will most likely be the engine sound. :rolleyes:
But the rumour is that it will have a valve exhaust system developed with the help of Lamborghini.

Hans.

Oh... I don't know. Our 1.8T 4 banger sounded just fine without a fancy quad exhaust... ;)

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showpost.php?p=76048&postcount=36 (clicky link) :cheers:

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

I think the TTS will be close to 1400 Kg and with 270 hp and a high tuning potential i hope it will get the 8 pod calipers.

Hans.

Is there any reason why they wouldn't be using the ones from the S3 or even the S5 which is at least 200Kgs heavier and with an extra 85hp. Don't get me wrong I like the idea of the big brakes it just sound excessive especially when the car don't require them and is adding cost to the car that would be better served by keeping the retail of the car down and help extend the value difference between itself and the likes of the Z4 3.0M/Sport and the Cayman.

The only reason I see why they would be going to such extremes is for there to be another more powerful version waiting in the wings.

[SigmaS6]

I think the TTS will be close to 1400 Kg and with 270 hp and a high tuning potential i hope it will get the 8 pod calipers.
Cheap tuning I can see, as it's a turbo engine, but the high potential I can't see. With 5hp more than the S3 the engine will not have any hardware mods installed, otherwise the difference would be bigger. And if it's the same there's also the same tuning program available, i.e. cheap but limited.

Not to forget that the lag and throttle response wont honor a tuning far beyond 300hp, so I think it will be a great looking car but you shouldn't start to compare it against other sporty cars in that price range as the result might be disappointing.

And concerning the sound, I can't imagine how they could make a 4 cylinder sound great, even if some lambo-guys are designing the pipes. They are used to enhance the sound of power, not to create the illusion of more cylinders ;)

[Leadfoot]

I would like to jump to Iceman's defence here.


Cheap tuning I can see, as it's a turbo engine, but the high potential I can't see. With 5hp more than the S3 the engine will not have any hardware mods installed, otherwise the difference would be bigger. And if it's the same there's also the same tuning program available, i.e. cheap but limited.

Hans would have liked a V6 or the 5cylinder unit which is rumoured but as this is what we are getting, deal with it. You are correct, this engine is all but identical to the unit in the S3 with the except being the exhaust system.


Not to forget that the lag and throttle response wont honor a tuning far beyond 300hp, so I think it will be a great looking car but you shouldn't start to compare it against other sporty cars in that price range as the result might be disappointing.

There has been a lot of talk about turbo lag but there is little or no noticeable difference between a S3 and a Golf GTi so Audi have done an impressive job with the S3. Based on the previous TT225, tuning it to 285hp showed a lag difference which was very acceptable so I reckon a new TT/S with 325hp should show similar if not less lag. But if I bought one I personally wouldn't tune it anything more than 300hp and hope the chip could be programmed to improve the torque more than overall power.

Why would the TT/S be more disappointing against similar priced sportscars? I take it you are talking about the Cayman/Boxster which I will agree with but if you are talking about anything else then I sorry but the TT/S will better than all of the rest. The TT2.0 out drives the similar powered A3 and I don't expect the TT/S will be any difference against the S3 which I would like to add gets very close to the times posted by the RS4 when the tracks are tight, so the handling is on the money.


And concerning the sound, I can't imagine how they could make a 4 cylinder sound great, even if some lambo-guys are designing the pipes. They are used to enhance the sound of power, not to create the illusion of more cylinders ;)

This is one area I totally agree with you, 4cylinder engine don't sound as good as 6cylinder engine plain and simple, but exhausts are amazing things and I don't doubt that Audi with Lambroghini's help will get it to sound one of the best sounding 4cylinder engine around.

[SigmaS6]

There has been a lot of talk about turbo lag but there is little or no noticeable difference between a S3 and a Golf GTi

I don't know the GTI but in the S3 I found it pretty noticable. You get reminded of the displacement whenever you try to do something starting from <3000 rpm.


I take it you are talking about the Cayman/Boxster which I will agree with but if you are talking about anything else then I sorry but the TT/S will better than all of the rest.

I don't think it's great handling can cope with the power disadvantage. Unless you are talking about a customized version with e.g. the above 325hp I think the TTS will have a hard time even against cheaper cars (I'm thinking of the typical japanese awd-models here with 300-325hp without a mod) as they simply have more stock performance.

Imo the TTS could have been a clear winner here as the base certainly allows that but audi should have been a bit more progressive engine-wise.


gets very close to the times posted by the RS4 when the tracks are tight

Sure, the lower the speeds the more the weight and the less the performance matters. I remember the race of the FQ400 against the lambo shown on top gear, but I'm not sure I'd call the FQ the better sports car just because of that. Power simply does matter. I can understand though that the results may vary, especially in countries where you have general speed limits.


will get it to sound one of the best sounding 4cylinder engine around.
I have no doubt about that, but that doesn't say anything about the sound on a global scale ;)

[Leadfoot]

I don't know the GTI but in the S3 I found it pretty noticable. You get reminded of the displacement whenever you try to do something starting from <3000 rpm.

I think the difference between you and me is that I have driven turbo engined cars most of my life and have been used to driving around the little lag they have. Compared to a big engine a turbo isn't really a substitute but in it's defence putting a big engine in the front of a TT would be a worst option than the small turbo unit.


I don't think it's great handling can cope with the power disadvantage. Unless you are talking about a customized version with e.g. the above 325hp I think the TTS will have a hard time even against cheaper cars (I'm thinking of the typical Japanese awd-models here with 300-325hp without a mod) as they simply have more stock performance.

I have experience numerous Japanese cars, EVOs, GTRs & STis and they has always been more turbo lag for these cars than I have ever seen in an European rival and the TT/S will be no difference.


Imo the TTS could have been a clear winner here as the base certainly allows that but audi should have been a bit more progressive engine-wise.

The TT/S will be a winner, the S3 is at the top of the tree in it's marketplace and the TT/S will be the same with the one exception being the Cayman which is in my opinion is in another league but again to the TT's defence, spec to spec it's in another price league as well. When comparing the TT/S to it's true price rivals (Z4 3.0M/Sport, Z350 and SLK350) the TT/S will easily beat all of these and in style.


Sure, the lower the speeds the more the weight and the less the performance matters. I remember the race of the FQ400 against the lambo shown on top gear, but I'm not sure I'd call the FQ the better sports car just because of that. Power simply does matter. I can understand though that the results may vary, especially in countries where you have general speed limits.


I have no doubt about that, but that doesn't say anything about the sound on a global scale ;)

I know what you mean about the Lambo and the EVO but in fairness the two example between the them and the RS4 and the S3 are totally difference. For one the Lambo is mid-engine while the EVO is front engine and both are made by different manufacturers, but the other two are made by Audi, have the same nose heavy design but differ in that one is blessed with an almighty engine and trick suspension while the other isn't but still matches it's time. Sure power matter when the straight are long enough but if that is the be all and end all in your opinion then why are you driving a S6 and not something more powerful, are you saying that when the RS6 comes out the S6 won't be good enough for you and you will have to change up.

I don't think you are seeing the bigger picture here, power equals money, most people can't afford the RS4s and RS6s of this world but they can possibly afford a TT/S and that the difference between our thinking. :cheers:

[SigmaS6]

I think the difference between you and me is that I have driven turbo engined cars most of my life and have been used to driving around the little lag they have.
I tend to see things on a global scale, I don't really care if it's good for a turbo 4 cylinder. If a five cylinder or V6 would offer the same without lag I see the 4 cylinder as the inferior solution.


and the TT/S will be no difference.
How it will feel with 270hp should be clear as it's the S3 engine but I'd call the reviews with regards to the lag at least 'mixed'.


When comparing the TT/S to it's true price rivals (Z4 3.0M/Sport, Z350 and SLK350) the TT/S will easily beat all of these and in style.
Style-wise I don't disagree at all, but I just can't see how the TTS with 270hp from two liter with the well known K04 can beat a WRX STi with 325hp from 2.5 liter. The latter one has roughly 100nm more torque as well. And yes, it's ugly as hell ;)

Somehow I had wished that audi would have addressed competitors like this. Maybe you're right and they did, but I can't see the tricky part yet that allows the TTS to beat that.


Sure power matter when the straight are long enough but if that is the be all and end all in your opinion then why are you driving a S6 and not something more powerful, are you saying that when the RS6 comes out the S6 won't be good enough for you and you will have to change up.

You don't always drive what you really want and it's always good to know that there are still models on the market that are worth working for. I just think that the TTS is not representing what audi could have done. The limitations are artificial and based on what they had in stock instead of what the platform could handle. That's a bit sad imo, especially as we might never see an RS.


most people can't afford the RS4s and RS6s of this world but they can possibly afford a TT/S and that the difference between our thinking. :cheers:
I don't think that the lower S-models should be seen as models for people who can't afford a better car. For me the S has always been a guarantee that you'll get a car that is up par with the other cars in it's class, even though it comes at a certain price. Interpreting a sub-par power output as a nice gesture from audi to keep the price low sounds weird to me, if that's what you meant?

I also wonder what amount of money we're talking about: a fully specced 3.2l costs >50.000 euro. What would a 5 cylinder 2.5l engine with let's say 320hp have added to that? 7-8% maybe (not to forget that the option packs are cheaper on S/RS models)?

[Leadfoot]

I tend to see things on a global scale, I don't really care if it's good for a turbo 4 cylinder. If a five cylinder or V6 would offer the same without lag I see the 4 cylinder as the inferior solution.


How it will feel with 270hp should be clear as it's the S3 engine but I'd call the reviews with regards to the lag at least 'mixed'.


Style-wise I don't disagree at all, but I just can't see how the TTS with 270hp from two liter with the well known K04 can beat a WRX STi with 325hp from 2.5 liter. The latter one has roughly 100nm more torque as well. And yes, it's ugly as hell ;)

Somehow I had wished that audi would have addressed competitors like this. Maybe you're right and they did, but I can't see the tricky part yet that allows the TTS to beat that).

I think we need get over the part about the engine being just 4cylinder, it what Audi have chosen to use and from past experience this engine will do the job well. About the Japanese competition, I can't think of anyone who would class these cars as rivals, the EVO, STI etc are low rent cars compared to the quality of BMW and Audi, sure they go like shit but come on get real, would you have consider a one of these if they made a similar version to your S6.

In my opinion they could be miles quicker and I still wouldn't buy one, but hey that's me, maybe you or some others might take a different view on this.




You don't always drive what you really want and it's always good to know that there are still models on the market that are worth working for. I just think that the TTS is not representing what Audi could have done. The limitations are artificial and based on what they had in stock instead of what the platform could handle. That's a bit sad imo, especially as we might never see an RS.


I don't think that the lower S-models should be seen as models for people who can't afford a better car. For me the S has always been a guarantee that you'll get a car that is up par with the other cars in it's class, even though it comes at a certain price. Interpreting a sub-par power output as a nice gesture from audi to keep the price low sounds weird to me, if that's what you meant?

I also wonder what amount of money we're talking about: a fully specced 3.2l costs >50.000 euro. What would a 5 cylinder 2.5l engine with let's say 320hp have added to that? 7-8% maybe (not to forget that the option packs are cheaper on S/RS models)?

We are discussing problems with a car that hasn't even been tested, I look at the S3 and see a car that is better than it's main rivals and I believe the same will be true of the TT/S, sure it could have been better but then it would have be in a different price bracket and up against different rivals, if Hans is correct and the TT/S will be priced less than the TT3.2 then it going to under cut the Z4 3.0M/Sport by £3K and the Cayman by £7K+ yet besting both of them in performance. That to me spells amazing value for money and that is where it's success will be. You say the S was a guarantee of being on par with the competition, sorry but things look to have changed on that part. The S5 is on par with the 335i now not the M3 and it's now a full £4k dearer than it's BMW rival. The S6 at present sits in a position where performance-wise it hasn't got any real rivals and the S3 equals the 130i on price and power, surely the TT/S is doing exactly the same thing as the S3, matching it's closest rival on power but bettering it on performance.

If Audi had choose to up the power and price then the TT/S would have been to close in performance with it's S5 and then it's power would have had to be up as well and so on, right up the rest of the range. The TT/S will have a PTW close to 200hp/ton, if it had 325hp then it would have been closer to 230hp/ton and that would have been well above the S5's 218hp/ton.

If a TT/RS did come I reckon the most Audi could give it would be 325~330hp be cause of the above reasons.

[SigmaS6]

In my opinion they could be miles quicker and I still wouldn't buy one, but hey that's me, maybe you or some others might take a different view on this.
I'm not blind, so those cars aren't an option, but I would have appreciated it nevertheless if audi would have matched them engine-wise. Why can't a car look better and be as powerful as a japanese one? ;)

The EVO even offers a DSG starting from 2008, so I think audi is silently loosing it's vorsprung if they continue to try to match instead of slightly exceed.


If Audi had choose to up the power and price then the TT/S would have been to close in performance with it's S5 and then it's power would have had to be up as well and so on, right up the rest of the range.
But there's certainly still much room between 270 and 353hp. even if the mentioned 320hp might be wishful thinking a magic 300 would have been possible without any class overlaps. It would also have positioned the TT over the A3, which wouldn't be so wrong either.


if it had 325hp then it would have been closer to 230hp/ton and that would have been well above the S5's 218hp/ton.
Which is ok imo as we're comparing a limousine with a two seater.


If a TT/RS did come I reckon the most Audi could give it would be 325~330hp be cause of the above reasons.
But I'd still be happy to see that one TT to rule them all, japanese included :)

[Leadfoot]

The EVO even offers a DSG starting from 2008, so I think audi is silently loosing it's vorsprung if they continue to try to match instead of slightly exceed.

Sure they are getting a similar gearbox to what Audi are using, but so is the BMW M3 and you have to remember that Audi have had this box for over 5yrs. If that isn't VORSPRUNG then what is.



But there's certainly still much room between 270 and 353hp. even if the mentioned 320hp might be wishful thinking a magic 300 would have been possible without any class overlaps. It would also have positioned the TT over the A3, which wouldn't be so wrong either.


Which is ok imo as we're comparing a limousine with a two seater.

Sure there is a difference between 270 and 353, but acceleration is the important thing as it's it that is used the most, not topspeed and this is where PTW is the most telling factor, give the TT over 300hp and it will out accelerate the S5 and that would be a marketing disaster. Why would one buy a dearer but slower model from the same supplier.

Truth me, the M3 might beat the M5 to 60mph but I reckon the M5 will still be the quicker as the speed increases.



But I'd still be happy to see that one TT to rule them all, japanese included :)

Well here's hoping.:thumb:

[SigmaS6]

Sure they are getting a similar gearbox to what Audi are using, but so is the BMW M3 and you have to remember that Audi have had this box for over 5yrs. If that isn't VORSPRUNG then what is.
That's what I meant: don't only start it but continue that way. The japanese apparently have a version ready that can handle ~430nm, the DSG from VW that audi is using for some years now only handles 350nm (it was designed for the Golf/Rabbit class, so that's no big surprise). The DQ500 is still at least one year away from production.


Why would one buy a dearer but slower model from the same supplier.

Truth me, the M3 might beat the M5 to 60mph but I reckon the M5 will still be the quicker as the speed increases.
But that's it, I mean if you compare the 0-30 times you have a whole different world once more, but losing on the 0-60 times to get the crap beaten out from 60-120 is still a valid reason to buy the bigger car :)

Especially as I don't think the S5 and TT are rivals. I read that many potential TT-guys were thinking about the S5 recently due to the engine, but I can't imagine that many S5 guys would think about the TTS if it had 320hp.

The average age for the S5 was ~55 according to audi, I'm sure the fluctuation to the TT wouldn't be big, no matter what.

[Leadfoot]

That's what I meant: don't only start it but continue that way. The japanese apparently have a version ready that can handle ~430nm, the DSG from VW that audi is using for some years now only handles 350nm (it was designed for the Golf/Rabbit class, so that's no big surprise). The DQ500 is still at least one year away from production.

Are sure it will be at least one year away. ;)


But that's it, I mean if you compare the 0-30 times you have a whole different world once more, but losing on the 0-60 times to get the crap beaten out from 60-120 is still a valid reason to buy the bigger car :)

Especially as I don't think the S5 and TT are rivals. I read that many potential TT-guys were thinking about the S5 recently due to the engine, but I can't imagine that many S5 guys would think about the TTS if it had 320hp.

Well there you go, I must be in the minority because I am considering a S5 but will hold off until I get to sample the TT/S which according to AUTOCAR is to be launched Sept/Oct '07. I think the main difference between our thinking is I seldom go above 100mph because of the speed limits and you drive the Autobahn. The TT/S because of it's weight advantage will feel more alive on the twisty roads (where I spent most of my time) than the S5, even if the S5 is a little quicker. Price isn't my main consideration as I will be having a RS5 when it's finally launched, either of these cars are just I fill in until it arrives. I purely see Audi's point for not going over-board and giving the TT/S too much power.


The average age for the S5 was ~55 according to audi, I'm sure the fluctuation to the TT wouldn't be big, no matter what.

The average age is what ! :eek:

Well that all but puts pay to me having an S5, I'm going through enough of a middle life crisis without making myself older than I already am, thank you very much. :doh:

[SigmaS6]

The average age is what ! :eek:
I was surprised when I heard that the first time as well, but the main reason according to audi is the price of the car. It just takes most people some years till they are able to buy it. The age distribution would also be interesting to see, maybe there are some 90 year olds ruining the stats ;)

But the reason why audi published those numbers was to show that it's appealing to a younger audience. The average age is lower than that for other models in this limousine class. So you can calm down again :)
Stress isn't good for someone your age anyway :D

[Leadfoot]

Hans,

As I was telling SigmaS6, Autocar are stating that the TT/S is actually being launched at the Frankfurt show in much the same way as the A/S5 was launched at the Geneva show. Maybe this is why the German dealers are able to order these car already as the launch has indeed been brought forward a few months.

What do you think? :brag:

[Iceman]

Imo the TTS could have been a clear winner here as the base certainly allows that but Audi should have been a bit more progressive engine-wise.

They will with the TTS, there will be a Factory engine tuning option for the TT.
You can order 290 hp with full factory engine warenty for 2500,- Euro.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

They will with the TTS, there will be a Factory engine tuning option for the TT.
You can order 290 hp with full factory engine warenty for 2500,- Euro.

Hans.

I was just informed the same thing today. :thumb: I was wondering something, Audi have stated on more than one occassion that the RS versions will be kept to a chosen few models, namely the A4, A5, A6 and possibly the A8. If this is true and the likes of the A3, TT and others won't get a RS version in the range is these factory tuning packs a way of offering a halfway house between a S and a RS?

This is a must have for any budding Michael Schumacher. :D

[Benman]

I'm not blind, so those cars aren't an option, but I would have appreciated it nevertheless if audi would have matched them engine-wise. Why can't a car look better and be as powerful as a japanese one? ;)



Actually, that is a dang good point! We certainly know it will be more expensive!!!

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

Actually, that is a dang good point! We certainly know it will be more expensive!!!

Ben:addict:

Sure SigmaS6 has very valid points and I totally agree that a V6 under the bonnet would have been the more desirable option, but at this price level choosing the wrong engine could have resulted in a possible £3K~£4K price increase which in something like a RS6 wouldn't be the end of the world as the car will most likely cost in excess of £70K, but in something like the TT this price increase will amount to a 10%~13% increase and may result in ultimately a better car but one which isn't value for money.

The best we could have expected from a N/A 3.2Lv6 would have been 300hp and maybe 325hp out of a 3.6Lv6, so I think the slightly less responsive and less musical 2.0TFSi is the better choice all round, it will handle better, provide better economy and have a fuller torque band, but the ultimate decider for me is the price.

Look at the S3, it's is winning almost every grouptest it's in but with some testers the price is a little to high for their liking. Now it's getting away with this because the car is so good but it's competition is a lot greater than what the TT has. The S3 has to compete with hot hatches like the Renault Megane and the Focus ST as well as the likes of the R32 and 130i. The TT has none of this, look at it's competition and you has really only one costing less, the Z350 and the rest are all dearer, the guy that will be buying the TT/S will be looking at a limiting group of cars and with the exception of the Cayman S all the rest don't has the style or go of the Audi, the Z4 3.0 will be walked in both acceleration and handling as will the Nissan but the Porsche the TT covered but look at the price difference.

TT/S specced well estimated £36K and the Cayman S, more like £50K.

What Hans is saying about the price is that we have in the TT/S, a better handling, much quicker, sportier and visually appealing car for less money than the standard 3.2Lv6. IT'S A NO BRAINER.

[Benman]

Sure SigmaS6 has very valid points and I totally agree that a V6 under the bonnet would have been the more desirable option...


Actually Leadie,

What I mean is that he has a point in the regard that for how much more Audi is charging for the better interior and higher overall quality, they could have matched the performance that the Japanese get out of their 4 bangers.

I am all for a 4 pot under the hood, I just think it should match the Jap cars in the HP/Lb/Ft department. If they are putting out 300+ out of 2.0s, then so should the TT.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

Actually Leadie,

What I mean is that he has a point in the regard that for how much more Audi is charging for the better interior and higher overall quality, they could have matched the performance that the Japanese get out of their 4 bangers.

I am all for a 4 pot under the hood, I just think it should match the Jap cars in the HP/Lb/Ft department. If they are putting out 300+ out of 2.0s, then so should the TT.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

Sure Ben, Audi could have done it easily but, and there's always a but, the problem is Turbo lag, like SigmaS6 rightly said, turbo lag will be a problem but he didn't comment on the lag from these Japanese pocket rocket which is unbelievable compared to any European equivalent. The Subaru STi does nothing until 3500rpm and then it goes like a rocket have been stuck up it's arse, the EVO is much the same. If Audi were to do something so crude as this then I wouldn't buy it, WOULD YOU?

[Benman]

Sure I would. Our Audi racecar is a perfect example of great power and smooth torque from a "tiny" 4 pot. There is torque as low as 2800rpm and it builds smoothly to a plateau at only 3800rpm! From there it stays steady till just before 7000rpm where it starts to fall off (redline is @7500-7900rpm).

Yes, our car is a racecar, but my point is that a 2.0 4 banger does not have to be nothing before 3500rpm. Especially one done by Audi. And as a side, our 1.8T puts a reliable 290hp to the wheels so it should be plenty doable for Audi to get 300hp+ gross.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[Iceman]

I still have my doubts about the TTS vs TT 3.2 Quattro.
The TTS will look good but the engine sound will be a worry IMHO.
Even if it will have a quad valve exhaust with the help of Lamborghini.
270 hp 2.0TFSI vs 250 hp 3.2 VR6, Turbo vs Atmo, 1375-1400 kg vs 1410 Kg.
Both will probably have a S-tronic option (TTS is not yet sure) with Haldex Quattro.
New body kit ? vs S-Line.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

I know where you are coming from but until we get to drive the TT/S and compare it to the 3.2 we will not know how much if any the TT/S is better, quicker and better looking.

But when one compares the S3 to the A3 3.2 S-Line Quattro there is no doubt the S3 is the much more enjoyable car to drive, plus it's quicker in every acceleration exercise.

I think at worst case, the TT/S will weigh only 35Kg less than the 3.2 but this could be even more if Audi chose to change the steel doors for alloy and chose a difference lighter seating option. I wouldn't be surprised to see the TT/S being 60~70Kgs less and when you factor in the additional power and torque offered from the engine then I reckon the TT3.2 will run it a very distance second as the TT of choice.

[Iceman]

The problem stil is that i don't like nervous 4 cylinder turbo engines.
I have drove allmost 15 years Audi 5cylinder engine with and without turbo's.
And in my eyes a much better engine then the 4-pod.
Also like the idea of a 294 hp by 6600 rpm / 350 Nm by 3300 rpm tuned atmo 3.2 VR6 with a rpm limit of 7300 rpm.
Also possible is a volume upgrade to 3.4 litre with 310 hp as result.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Hans,

You must admit that most people will not be tuning their new TT/S cars, apart from the option being offered by Audi themselves. And even if they do chose to tune the engine a software up-grade is the most anyone likes to go because of the ease to return it to standard when the car goes in for a service.

I personally think the VR6 days are numbered, the engine potential was limited by the demands on it's design, choosing a very narrow vee limited what could be done reliably and all of the above options you are talking about will cost twice if not three times more than it would with the 2.0L unit.

[Iceman]

Yes and the same go's up for a inline five 2.5TFSI.
But i don't think the day's of the VR6 are numbered, maybe the use in Audi's.
But even when Audi stop using the VR6 engine's they need to come with something else to replace it, and not with a 4-pod turbo.
If Audi dicide to bring back the inline five for use in the A3 and TT, then the Audi day's for the VR6 are numbered.
Also Audi is using a 280 hp 3.6 VR6 in the Q7 as is Porsche in the cayenne.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

As for the VR6 in the A3/TT, I feel Audi need to look for an option that provides the power/torque in a package that matches it musically but weighs less. I remember the talk about the inline 5cylinder 2.5TFSi, has it been canned or is it still being developed?

As for the Q7 and Cayenne, why use the VR6 when Audi's own house 3.2v6 is a much better engine and is perfectly suit to this application? There is no good reason for either company to use this engine apart from the fact that they have a production plant that would take to much to re-tool for something else.

VW has tried to use the VR engine in different forms without success, remember the W8 in the Passat, now there was a winner.........NOT.

[ültje1]

hey when will we see some new spypics of the STT ??? or when will audi go official with the STT ????

[Iceman]

Whe will never see a STT but whe will see a TTS in less then 3 months.

Hans.

[Charles DLF]

iceman, i read all you thoughts about the 3.2 vs the 2.0T engine, and just keep in mind the 3.2 is a very heavy engine, and therefore spoils the handling quite a bit in such a small car. It sounds fantastic, true, but just so heavy up front!! I love it in my A3, but the only performance i'm looking for is highway punch, not the kind of suff a tts would be made for. Don't you think?

Anyway, we'll have to wait and see, my bets right now are on a 2.0T engine, no auto, maybe a few lightweight features in the car... Now that would be one fun little car!

Cheers everyone

Charles

[Iceman]

Sound wise the 2.0TFSI can't win agains a VR6, but performance wise it probably will.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Whe will never see a STT but whe will see a TTS in less then 3 months.

Hans.

Is it your opinion that the TT/S will be shown at Frankfurt?

That would be a hell of a lot of Audis all getting their first outing, TT/S, A4(maybe), Q5(maybe) and the RS6.

[Iceman]

Is it your opinion that the TT/S will be shown at Frankfurt?

That would be a hell of a lot of Audis all getting their first outing, TT/S, A4(maybe), Q5(maybe) and the RS6.
If it will be in the showroom by December according to German Audi dealers it will be @ frankfurt.
We will not see the Q5 and RS6 @ frankfurt, Q5 most likely in Detroit and RS6 @ Geneva.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

So you are reckoning on the RS6 not being shown until March'08, to the best of my knowledge the car will be on sale around this time. Surely that cutting it a little close don't you think.

[di-caro]

:ttaddict: I saw the car today in Braunschweig its near to Hannover.:ttaddict:
http://rapidshare.com/files/36545910/Audi_TTRS.rar

[Iceman]

:ttaddict: I saw the car today in Braunschweig its near to Hannover.:ttaddict:
http://rapidshare.com/files/36545910/Audi_TTRS.rar
Yes thats the red Audi TT testmule where whe have seen more pictures of.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

:ttaddict: I saw the car today in Braunschweig its near to Hannover.:ttaddict:
http://rapidshare.com/files/36545910/Audi_TTRS.rar

Did you happen to hear what the engine sounded like, was it a 2.0TFSi or was it a V6? I have a feeling that there is more than one TT currently under development, this is purely a gut feeling with no info to back this up apart from the fact that this TT testmule has been seen for quite some time now and it always looks the exact same.

[SigmaS6]

That test mule has the 3.2l V6 engine as they need the maximum weight to stress the brakes.

Btw, if audi really offers a 290hp upgrade I wonder how it compares to e.g. the 310hp mod from MTM for the S3 engine. Would be interesting to see who's more experienced tuning turbo engines :)

[Leadfoot]

That test mule has the 3.2l V6 engine as they need the maximum weight to stress the brakes.

Btw, if audi really offers a 290hp upgrade I wonder how it compares to e.g. the 310hp mod from MTM for the S3 engine. Would be interesting to see who's more experienced tuning turbo engines :)

So you reckon this red TT is purely a car testing brakes, interesting idea.

I must agree about the MTM TT, I was thinking the same thing, I wouldn't be surprised to find the Audi is the smoother power delivery but the MTM feels a lot more powerful, more than the 20hp difference suggests.

[Toto89]

Is it chanceless to have a more powerful V6, like 3.6 or so as well? I don't mean in TTS, but simply in TT. It could be needed i think.

[SigmaS6]

So you reckon this red TT is purely a car testing brakes, interesting idea.
at least that was the result of a longer thread in a german audi forum :)


I must agree about the MTM TT, I was thinking the same thing, I wouldn't be surprised to find the Audi is the smoother power delivery but the MTM feels a lot more powerful, more than the 20hp difference suggests.
Would be interesting to see the power diagramms, but even MTM only published that for the 330 hp mod.

I'm also wondering because of the price: MTM is 1200 euro for 310hp and the removal of the vmax-limit (which is at least in germany a not so seldom customer wish). if you buy the 290hp mod from audi you pay 2500 euros plus 800 euros for the vmax removal (from MTM, audi is not offering this for non-RS-models).

I'd really like to know what the average engine damage that is not covered by the audi warranty costs, because you're saving ~2000 euros if you take the additional 20hp from MTM. Maybe it's not only more powerful but also cheaper even if you have to cover damages yourself ;)

And no, I'm not affiliated with MTM :) I'm just wondering once again why audi does not try to parry the existing options that are already on the market (plus 300hp is a psychoogical number that sounds much better than e.g. 291 hp). I'd go for the audi option even if it costs twice the price, but then I'd expect it to be a similar tuning. Yes, I know we're talking about just 20hp here, but it's the general idea that counts ;)

[SigmaS6]

I don't mean in TTS, but simply in TT.
But then, what model is over the S but below the RS?

This would only work if the TTS is really the TTQS, but as the dealer documents call it officially TTS I'd say audi has decided how to call it already ;)

[Leadfoot]

Do MTM not offer a warranty option of their own to cover any work carried out by them that causes failure?

I don't like the fact that to keep your present warranty on your car you must chose the Audi up-grade especially as it's more expensive and doesn't offer the same performance but such is life. Personally I'm not one for tuning a car, believing what the manufacture has given is more than enough to maintain reliability.

As for two TT/S cars, I wouldn't be surprised to see European one being a 2.0TFSi and a US version sporting a 3.6v6. Hans has talked about a 3.6v6 going to the States and I agree that over there they wouldn't buy in to a small 2.0TFSi in the same way as they would a bigger V6 and when you see the way most of the cars handle you could put a bloody big v10 in the front of the TT and it would still out perform the most of them.

[SigmaS6]

Do MTM not offer a warranty option of their own to cover any work carried out by them that causes failure?
Sure, but you can imagine how well it works if two manufacturers and their insurance companies blame the oponent of being accountable for the costs. So in theory yes, but in fact I'd say everything that breaks has to be paid out of your own pocket. If you get it back from one side mark the day in your calendar :)


Personally I'm not one for tuning a car,
Me neither, that's why I wonder why audi doesn't recognize that opportunity to simply sell the same thing at a much higher price :)


believing what the manufacture has given is more than enough to maintain reliability.
I'm not so sure about that if I see the options of the tuners. Or of Audi: It's the same engine as in the S3, but then with 290 instead of 265hp? So there was definitely room for improvements without altering the reliability and that applies to all other engines as well I assume.



As for two TT/S cars, I wouldn't be surprised to see European one being a 2.0TFSi and a US version sporting a 3.6v6.
I remember having read that the TTS was not even supposed to reach the US as you don't get the needed super plus fuel (dunno how it's called in the US) there.

[Iceman]

Audi did the same with the A4/S4 DTM edition.
The Euro version was the A4 2.0TFSI DTM edition and the US version was the S4 V8 4.2 DTM edition, only they called it 25Quattro - USA.

Hans.

[Iceman]

I remember having read that the TTS was not even supposed to reach the US as you don't get the needed super plus fuel (dunno how it's called in the US) there.
The 280 hp 3.6 VR6 FSI engine is working just fine with US fuel.
And if, it just will be called TT 3.6 Quattro in the US.

Hans.

[PeterJohn]

MTM warrenty (http://www.mtm-online.de/en/index.php?nav=7)

NSA 2 - Vehicles up to 2 years from date of first registration, up to maximum of 100.000km
12 month guarantee for engine, turbo-loader, gearbox and driveline
100,- EUR surcharge beside the performance tuning

NSA 5 - Vehicles up to 5 years from date of first registration, up to maximum of 80.000km
12 month guarantee for engine, turbo-loader, gearbox and driveline
225,- EUR for addiotional achievment beside a
existing guarantee-insurande or for surcharge beside the performance tuning
35,- EUR surcharge for vehicles with four-wheel drive
30,- EUR surcharge for vehicles with turbo engine


Performance Range:
Engie, turbo loader up to 100.000km, mechanic an automatic gear, input shafts, wheell drive assembly and four-wheel drive, rent-vehicle up to maximum of 968,- EUR, maximum of covering 2.580 EUR, 6.450 EUR for engine, increase of performance for surcharge possible

Scope:
The guarantee applies in germany. If the vehicle is transitory not in the area, the guarantee applies in Europe.

Visitation / upkeep:
Visitations and upkeep work is only allowed to authorized garages (contractual partner of the respective manufactor or NSA). The passbook of the vehicle has to be filled.

Conclusion:
The data and submission of the insuranced vehicles will be sent by MTM to NSA. If a conclusion is made about a mtm-dealer, the submission has to be submitted and charged by mtm. A confirmation to the customer is sent by NSA after this submission.

Claims handling:
The customer has to contact MTM respectively the responsible mtm-dealer before loss assessment and repair work. Out of the office hours the 24 hours service-hotline is available.

Further conditions:
-Vehicles of VDAT
-Guarantee period 12 month, after that extendible monthly

[Leadfoot]

I don't see why anyone would be that surprised by different versions of the same car being offered in different markets. In the US fuel prices are by in large a third of the price in Europe, so while in Europe manufacturers are offering the same performance but from smaller engine with more efficiency, in the US the public have a like for all things big and an engine that is approaching twice the size suits that market, even if it is that efficient or even that economical.

[MPT]

Audi did the same with the A4/S4 DTM edition.
The Euro version was the A4 2.0TFSI DTM edition and the US version was the S4 V8 4.2 DTM edition, only they called it 25Quattro - USA.

Hans.

You're referring to two different models. The DTM was made because of the succes from DTM, the 25Quattro because of the 25 years with Quattro :hihi:..

The TTS will only come in one version (don't know if it will come to the states). There will also be offered one more engine to the TT :)

[Leadfoot]

You're referring to two different models. The DTM was made because of the succes from DTM, the 25Quattro because of the 25 years with Quattro :hihi:..

The TTS will only come in one version (don't know if it will come to the states). There will also be offered one more engine to the TT :)

I do agree with your option that they are two different models, but for differing reasons. For a start Audi Europe didn't do a 25Quattro only Audi US and the only reason Audi US did it was they didn't have a 2.0TFSi engine in their range. They both decided to make limited edition models, Europe chose the DTM version because of their success and the States chose the 25 years of Quattro.

I agree that there will only be one version of the TT/S because unless it has all that the TT/S has then it can't be called a TT/S, so in the States it will be supplied with a different engine and called something else, like Hans has already said.:doh: I reckon that you will see the TT/S state side coming with either a tuned version of the 3.2L or possibly a 3.6L of the same power and will most likely be called the TT280 or something like that.

[Iceman]

The more i think about it, the more likely it's that i will not buy a TTS.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Well my decision will be made very soon when I get to sample both versions of the TT along side the S5. If the S5 is much better than either of them then it will be a S5..................well until the RS5 becomes available.:D

[Iceman]

The problem is i don't like the A5/S5, that leave beside the TT the R8.
But the R8 will put to much of a attack on my finance. :D

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

The problem is i don't like the A5/S5, that leave beside the TT the R8.
But the R8 will put to much of a attack on my finance. :D

Hans.

I might be able to afford the R8 but I would never put THAT much money into any car. I love the TT and the last model I had for three years and was actually sad to see it go which is something I have never been with any other car, in fact I have never kept another car for that long. Ideally I would like to have a TT with a 5cylinder engine kicking out 350hp but the reality is that Audi won't product such a car and my only options out of the Audi range is either the S5 or the TT/S.

I doubt that the TT/S will drive much different than the standard 2.0T apart from when you really press the car on and the awd system start to show it's worth. If the S5 feels better than this and when I finally get to see it in the flesh and still like it's looks then I reckon I will be soon the proud owner of a S5, if not then I will have the TT/S.:D

One thing I will say about both cars is the TT/S will give you a more sportscar experience than the A5/S5 car, it's basically just a two door saloon, exactly the same experience that the 3series coupe gives.

[Iceman]

I have drove 15 years Audi saloons with 5 cylinder engines.
After Audi stopped production of the 5 cylinder engine i lost a bit of interest in Audi engine wise.
I'm a big fan of the TT Mk1 and even better the Mk2 but engine wise i still don't like it.
The VR6 is not a bad engine but it need a aluminium/titanium engine block to loose a lot of weight.
Combine that with FSI and Valve-lift technology with a volume of 3.2-3.6 and a power output between 285 and 345 hp (without a turbo) and you will have a great engine with a mind blowing sound.
The 4 pod turbo can not be the replacement for the VR6 engine and also the 5 pod turbo will be a different engine and can not be compare with a 3.2-3.6 atmo engine.
Another point is that turbo's kill engine sound.
The atmo 2.3 20v five cylinder engine sound better then a turbo one, but if you put revs ( up to 7800 rpm) to the turbo five it start to sound awesome.
The best axample for how a high rev five turbo will sound is the Gallardo superleggera.
mind blowing, mind blowing, IMHO.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

What are the chances of VAG making the engine block out of aluminium, or an even better question, why wasn't it made from it in the first place. I love the sound of the VR6 but in standard form it seems or should I say feels a little thin on torque (a narrow band). Will adding FSi and Valvelift improve this to a level where it is measurably better than a BMW 6cylinder.

[Iceman]

Valve-lift will be possitive for the torque curve, but a turbo will do wonders for the torque curve.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Valve-lift will be possitive for the torque curve, but a turbo will do wonders for the torque curve.

Hans.

Yeah, but like you say the turbo will kill that lovely noise.:doh: Bummer.:rolleyes:

[Iceman]

Yeah, but like you say the turbo will kill that lovely noise.:doh: Bummer.:rolleyes:

Yes, it will kill that lovely sound.

Hans.

[Arslanoff]

Who wanted to see the RED TTS?
(http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publish/Features/article_3268.shtml)

[Iceman]

Who wanted to see the RED TTS?
(http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publish/Features/article_3268.shtml)
Very cool car, i always want one of them.
Fast little car.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Right Hans,

What sort of Photoshop will you come up with this time.:D

[Leadfoot]

Back on topic, I don't know about you but info on the TT/S has gone very quiet at the minute. I expected more pictures to show up of the car being tested, more leaks regarding the spec and this power upgrade, etc.

I understand why little is getting out about the RS6, it's the big thing to hit the Audi stand at the Frankfurt show but this TT/S is after all just another TT model, not the beast from hell which is going to destroy the M5 and Mercedes E63 is one foul swoop.

[Iceman]

NON ;)

btw, there is uncertainty about the TTS, if it will show up @ the IAA Frankfurt.
It's getting quiet about the relaese date.
There are even indications that the introduction can/will take place @ the Essen Motorshow.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

So it's still possible for a January on sale date then. I sincerely hope so or other-wise I will have to have the new S5 and at present without driving and experiencing the car I not that impressed with the reviews it has been getting. Will know more soon and hopefully be able to quiz some of the top Audi UK guys about the TT/S and find out for definite when it will be on sale.

[Iceman]

In Germany they still say that it will be in the showrooms by December.

Hans.

[SigmaS6]

btw, there is uncertainty about the TTS, if it will show up @ the IAA Frankfurt.
Any reasons given for that rumor? Like a feedback worse than expected concerning the choice of engine which made them think about upgrading it in some way? (a man can still dream, can't he ;))

[Iceman]

Any reasons given for that rumor?
No, but i think the RS6 have something to do with it.
btw, VW used Essen for the introduction of the Passat R36.

Hans.

[SigmaS6]

I wonder what that means for the TT-RS: would they push that date back then as well? Would be a nice surprise if they'd introduce both at the same event :)

[ZeroCool]

i don't think that they will introduce them at the same event...
IMO the TT-RS will come in Summer 2009

[Iceman]

The 40th TOKIO Motorshow (26/10-11/11) is also possible.
In 1995 Audi showed the Ur-TTS @ Tokio.

http://www.carstyling.ru/resources/concept/95audi_tts.jpg

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

I was talking to a Audi UK representative and he confirmed that the TT/S is to be available to order and spec as from the few months time, with cars being delivered from Jan'08. No word on the power up-grade at the moment and was kind of surprised that I knew anything about it. ;)

S-Tronic is expected but couldn't confirm this which leads me to believe it mightn't be available at launch. :stick:

Also saw and drove the A5 and wasn't as impressed as I was hoping to be, it drives well and the interior is a very step forward in design and finish from the A4 but the exterior just doesn't look sporty enough in my opinion. Also it only looks right in some colours, surprisingly silver does nothing for the design, but blue and dark colours look much better. The B&O sound system is very precise with not that much bass, in other words very accurate but not that good for a car which is after all a noisy bass sapping environment, the Bose system is much better.

[Iceman]

The B&O system in the A8/S8/R8 is superb IMHO.
But sound is different for every one.
I don't like the A5/S5 at all it's just a GT and not a sports coup.
I only like the TT and R8 (beside the ring less gril).

Hans.

[SigmaS6]

@Leadfoot: Just wondering why you tested the A5 instead of the S5? I thought you were interested in the latter model?

Also I wonder if the release of the TT-RS is part of your decision making process as well? Are you sure the TTS will be good enough to not look back in anger once the RS gets available one year later? Or do you swap cars fast enough so that it doesn't matter?

[Leadfoot]

@Leadfoot: Just wondering why you tested the A5 instead of the S5? I thought you were interested in the latter model?

Also I wonder if the release of the TT-RS is part of your decision making process as well? Are you sure the TTS will be good enough to not look back in anger once the RS gets available one year later? Or do you swap cars fast enough so that it doesn't matter?


I don't believe that the TT/RS will be available in early '09 but as that is a year away taking a TT/S in January wouldn't lose too much money because of the newness and limited supply.

My ideal choice will be the RS5, so it will more than likely get the first look and if I like what I see than that's what I will get. But it and the TT are two totally different cars to drive, the TT is very much the more sporty drive while the A5/S5 is more a GT car with refinement the order of the day. I just hope the RS5 when it comes bring a little bit of rawness in much the same way as the RS4 did.

[Leadfoot]

The B&O system in the A8/S8/R8 is superb IMHO.
But sound is different for every one.
I don't like the A5/S5 at all it's just a GT and not a sports coup.
I only like the TT and R8 (beside the ring less gril).

Hans.

Agreed, the B&O system in the A8 is mighty impressive but again very precise with the bass which in something as quiet as the A8 works, but after driving the A5 it a refined car though not to the level of the A8 and as such it's system could have done with a bit fuller sound on the bottom end.

Also I agree about the role of the A5/S5, it is a GT car through and through and after sampling the TT again if you are after the enjoyment of throwing a car down a twisty road the A5 is not the car you should be looking at, though it is very capable of doing the job and no doubt very efficiently. Plus there is no substitute for the S-Tronic gearbox, something that the rest of the range needs for offer as soon as possible.

[Arslanoff]

The 40th TOKIO Motorshow (26/10-11/11)

According to The German car blog the Audi TTS will not be unveiled at the Frankfurt Motor Show and instead the car is going to be shown at the Tokyo Motor Show. But it is only a month difference.

[Leadfoot]

According to The German car blog the Audi TTS will not be unveiled at the Frankfurt Motor Show and instead the car is going to be shown at the Tokyo Motor Show. But it is only a month difference.

My dealer confirmed that at Frankfurt the only Audis having the premier there will be the RS6 and the A4, so I reckon you are right about Tokyo for the TT/S.

Oh and another thing, he smiled when I quizzed him about the introduction of this new 7sp DSG, does this mean him doesn't know or more than likely he knows but isn't telling, like it's something he knows and I don't that's coming soon.:vhmmm:

:eye: Confused, me to. :lovl:

[Arslanoff]

does this mean him doesn't know or more than likely he knows but isn't telling, like it's something he knows and I don't that's coming soon.:vhmmm:

WOW :brag:

And did you ask him about S4? Any news? Will it come with A4?

[ZeroCool]

@Arslanoff...

I'm sure, that the S4 will come with the A4 ... they'll do it like they did with A5/S5...

[Iceman]

preview for Germany:

Audi TTS 2.0TFSI 198KW, Manual, Quattro Q2/08
Audi TTS 2.0TFSI 198KW, S -Tronic, Quattro Q2/08

the info is dated as of 06.07.07.

Hans.

[ZeroCool]

Q2/08 ... what is at this date?! The official Presentation or do the customer get the cars?!

[Iceman]

Q2/08 ... what is at this date?! The official Presentation or do the customer get the cars?!
Market introduction/first deliveries.

Hans.

[ZeroCool]

Wonderful...thanx for that...

[Kowalski]

There are rumours the TTS might be powered by a Twin-Turbo variant of the 2.5 R5 20V used in the North American spec Jetta and Golf (Rabbit).

Now while I'm all for bringing back the raspy purr sound of Turbo 5-cylinders of the hot Audis of old.

However, I'd like to reconsider and suggest to bolt a couple Turbos to the A6's 2.8 V6 FSI engine. 6-cylinder and Two mini turbos just like the BMW 335i.

[guessWHO]

There are rumours the TTS might be powered by a Twin-Turbo variant of the 2.5 R5 20V used in the North American spec Jetta and Golf (Rabbit).

Now while I'm all for bringing back the raspy purr sound of Turbo 5-cylinders of the hot Audis of old.

However, I'd like to reconsider and suggest to bolt a couple Turbos to the A6's 2.8 V6 FSI engine. 6-cylinder and Two mini turbos just like the BMW 335i.

I'm sorry but the TTS is going to have the same engine as the S3. That's sure 1000000000000% :)

[Kowalski]

I'm sorry but the TTS is going to have the same engine as the S3. That's sure 1000000000000% :)

Oh shit! :vgrumpy:

The 2.0 16V TFSI normally is a pretty good engine in 200 Bhp form.

But the boffins at Audi managed to ruin it when they added the extra 60 Bhp for the S3; they the main rule when designing a Turbo engine:



The smaller the engine relative to its power, the more turbo boost is required to achieve it, and the more turbo lag results.

[SigmaS6]

That point of view sounds familiar ;)

270hp from 2l is not really the ultimate ride imo, but I'm sure it'll attract many buyers due to the low price that results from this engine choice. Attractive model: yes, S-worthy: no.

I'd recommend just not to buy this model and to ask Audi for the release-date of the TTRS. I hope the RS will end the struggle for a performance TT without compromises.

[Iceman]

http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/albums//Design/Photoshop%20Illustrations/Hans%20Zwijnenburg/006.jpg

New TTS / TT RS Illustrations, And More Sources Say 350hp I5. (http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=3346104)

Source: Fourtitude.com.

Hans.

[SigmaS6]

I'd be even more interested in the release date that those sources predict for the RS.

[TooFastForYou]

I'd be even more interested in the release date that those sources predict for the RS.

Rumors say, minimum one year after TTS, should mean Q2/09 :cry:

Greez - TFFY

[Leadfoot]

Rumors say, minimum one year after TTS, should mean Q2/09 :cry:

Greez - TFFY

I too heard rumours of a year after the TT-S, but on a plus note the rumour was attached to an output of 400hp.:D

[Iceman]

I too heard rumours of a year after the TT-S, but on a plus note the rumour was attached to an output of 400hp.:D
Whe will never see a factory TT RS with more then 365 hp.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Whe will never see a factory TT RS with more then 365 hp.

Hans.


Hans, it was a rumour nothing more. That's why I attached the cheesy grin to go with it.;)

I still doubt we will see a TT-RS any time soon and definately not in the early half of 2009 judging by production list of cars Quattro GmbH are to release before then. :eye:

[TooFastForYou]

I too heard rumours of a year after the TT-S, but on a plus note the rumour was attached to an output of 400hp.:D

No chance, Audi would never kick the R8's ass (420 hp, 1590 kg) with a 400 PS ~1410 kg TTRS, more than EUR 40K cheaper than the R8 :deal:

Greez - TFFY

[DJim]

Trouwens.. Jouw nickname Iceman, heeft dat met Dennis Bergkamp te maken toevallig ?

[Iceman]

Trouwens.. Jouw nickname Iceman, heeft dat met Dennis Bergkamp te maken toevallig ?
Nee totaal niet.
Was wel een wereld voetballer.

Hans.

[DJim]

oke, was zeker een wereld voetballer, daarom nam ik ook de moeite om het even te vragen:)

[RXBG]

i don't think we'll ever see an RS version of this TT.

we'll see an S and the diesel but that is about it.

an S will make about 300 hp and drop 0-60 to 5 secs.

anything faster would be too close to the R8. plus, lets face it. audi needs quattro to make the R8 and its 3 or so more versions coming out, the RS6, the RS5, the next RS4. i mean come on.

[Iceman]

Quattro GmbH produce only one RS model at the time.
The RS4 in 3 versions will soon to be end.
And they will start producing the RS6.
When the new A6 arrive in 2010 the RS6 production will end.
Quattro GmbH can produce the RS5 Coupe' along side the RS6 sedan and avant production.
The rumour is there will not be a new RS4 again and the new S4 will have a 3.0 V6 Bi-turbo FSI engine with a power output between 330-400 hp.

Hans.

[RXBG]

i think quattro can produce more than one RS at a time (as you state icey) and that it will eventually be large enoguh to make many a la AMG, but that will take a long time. and it will not take place while this TT is in place.

even if there is a quicker version than the S version of the TT it will probably not be an RS but a stripped down, lightweight version in limited edition that will probably not have many of the creature comforts RS versions usually have. and it'll prob only be sold in europe and likely be almost as quick as an R8 but not be a daily drive type automobile.

[Leadfoot]

I too believe that Quattro GmbH will be able to produce more than one model at a time. This is it's current restrictions, especial with production of the R8 in full swing, but presently they do all the work in-house, what is to stop them doing the final assembly at Quattro and the other work being farmed out to other Audi sites and co-partners.

Quattro GmbH is a specialist is personalising and development so their skill should be used in this way allowing other parties to do the donkey work.

[guessWHO]

My opinion:

- there will be only a TT-S version, there will not be a TT RS
- there will be a new RS4 (saloon & avant)
- there will be a new RS5 (coupe, cabrio & maybe sportback)
- there will be an RS6 (saloon & avant)

They will all be produced by quattro.

It's just my opinion :)

[ültje1]

brand new official Info :)


Audi TTS 2.0 TFSI 198 kW HS quattro 2. Quartal 2008
Audi TTS 2.0 TFSI 198 kW S tronic quattro 2. Quartal 2008


presentation Frankfurt or Tokio ............

Audi RS 6 Avant 5.0 TFSI tiptronic quattro 1. Quartal 2008

cya

mfg

www.alex-poellinger.de

[Iceman]

brand new official Info :)
Audi RS 6 Avant 5.0 TFSI tiptronic quattro - 1. Quartal 2008

No RS6 sedan then. ;)

Hans.

[TooFastForYou]

preview for Germany:

Audi TTS 2.0TFSI 198KW, Manual, Quattro Q2/08
Audi TTS 2.0TFSI 198KW, S -Tronic, Quattro Q2/08

the info is dated as of 06.07.07.



brand new official Info :)

Audi TTS 2.0 TFSI 198 kW HS quattro 2. Quartal 2008
Audi TTS 2.0 TFSI 198 kW S tronic quattro 2. Quartal 2008

Kann es sein, dass Du hier (wie in einigen anderen Foren auch) eher Werbung für Deine HP machen willst, nachdem Du immer wieder längst bekannte Infos als angebliche Neuheiten postest ? :nono:
Und "offiziell" ist an der Info schonmal gar nichts - oder gibt es etwa eine Pressemeldung von Audi ? ;)


LG - TFFY

[ültje1]

ich gebe nur mir neue Infos weiter und wenn dich meine Signatur stört ...... kann ich dir auch nicht helfen.

[roadrunner]

to TooFastForYou and ültje1

and now we :cheers: to each other and continue in english, how about that.

rumors, speculations, news, good discussions - thats what RS6.com is all about :thumb:

and sometimes news is old news

[ültje1]

Maybe :D :ttaddict:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2040/ttsne5.jpg

[Leadfoot]

With all the excitement centering around the RS6 and the new A4 things relating to the new TT/S have taken very much a back seat. Anyway I was told that delivery will be starting early next year and prices look to be set around £32K. I hope this isn't salesmen getting hopeful and just talking hot air.

[Iceman]

The German tax free base price will be 38.000,- Euro's.
That means that the Dutch include taxes price will be something like 57.000,- Euro's to start with.
A nicely spect TTS will probably cost close to 70.000,- Euro's.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Based on your figures for the German base price less tax, if you convert to pounds sterling and add or V.A.T. you end up with a price of £31K, so I doubt his price is correct because UK cars and normally better specced than in German, so I reckon it's true price over here will be closer to £33K. That is unless this time round the two specs are quite similar.

[Iceman]

German "Autobild" do not mention a faster TT in there overview to 2010. :confused:
It's getting quiet about the suppossed TTS.

Hans.

[RXBG]

as certain as i am about there being no TT RS i am certain that there WILL be a TTS. given the current car's timeline i'd see the TTS being shown at one of the auto shows in the latter half of CY 2008. less sure is the powerplant.

something tells me audi is going to revamp the TT engines here in the US soon. the mysterious lack of an an entry model with quattro will be fixed, but the domino effect of the consequent upgrading of the higher powered offerings will shake things up considerably. i am still pretty sure the TTS will not be four cylinders.

[Iceman]

The question is will there be a TT3, or will it be replaced by the R4/R6.
Most logical will be to replace the 3.2 VR6 engine for 3.6 VR6 FSI with 300 hp (Passat R36 engine) and upgrade the 2.0T FSI engine to 220-265 hp.
Another option is a inline five cylinder turbo FSI.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

With the present changes in both ownership and leadership within VAG I wouldn't be surprised to hear that it had been put on hold but like I said earlier the UK dealer I believe are taking orders for early 2008 delivery.

[RussianM3_dude]

Problem is, why buy a "titty" S or RS whatever, when you can just get a Cayman. Much more kudos and will still be a vastly better drive.

[roadrunner]

Problem is, why buy a "titty" S or RS whatever, when you can just get a Cayman. Much more kudos and will still be a vastly better drive.

Why am i not surprised that this post is from you ;)

Try to answer your question:
Maybe because it is not always all about "kudos" and "better drive" is a subjective matter, everyone has to answer for themselfes.

Besides that i like the current special black edition of the Cayman - very apealing :thumb:

[Leadfoot]

Problem is, why buy a "titty" S or RS whatever, when you can just get a Cayman. Much more kudos and will still be a vastly better drive.

Actually this is a very good question for which I will give an equally good answer. ;)

Having owned two Boxsters both S models I can speak from experience that the Cayman has no equals when it comes to ultimate finesse and handling, especially in the dry. If you have ever had the pleasure to drive either of them at Porsche trackdays then you would clearly shout from the tallest building explaining that there is no better car, period.

But like my good friend roadrunner says it's not all about "kudos" and "better to drive", most purchases are from the heart and though I love the Porsches when it comes down to which looks the more special and the more enjoyable to sit in well I vote the TT every time. The Porsche is easily the better engine and for those brief moment of blasting down a road, but as an everyday option they are noisy on the motorway, twitchy when the road surface is bad and in extreme conditions (icy/snow) a milk float will leave you for dead. In fact if you were to check with any Porsche dealer they will openly admit that over 60% get damaged within the last 6 months of ownership.

The Porsche in my opinions ticks less boxes than the TT/S, both will be equally as quick in a straight line and chances are there will be little to separate them in lap times, though the Porsche will be the more entertaining but the Audi easier to enjoy more of the time. Like I said the interior is better and the outside more unique plus offering rear seat space regardless of how little is it.

To dismiss the TT out of hand just because the Porsche is the better the better drive and brand image is belittling the Audi because the difference in overall enjoyment isn't that great.

[RussianM3_dude]

I had a Cayman S for 3 days and except for the fact that it is very underpowered, it was a brilliant drive. Doubt that Audi will be able to equal a RWD mid-engined purpose built sports car with a front engined FWD chassis. Of course some people will buy it, but I'd say 90% will buy a Cayman.

[Leadfoot]

Yeah, but like I said the Cayman like the M3 is plain scary in extremely slippery conditions, on these occasions that fwd chassis you are talking about will be welcomed.

If I had excess to another high quality car on the occasions when I needed more space or when conditions demanded extra care then I too would still consider the Cayman but on a one car option the TT is the best option.

But in any case a well specced TT/S when it arrives will be no more than £36~38K compared to the Cayman S at £52K. Can they really be consider as rivals.

[Iceman]

Not me, i will never buy a RWD Cayman S.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

I must say of all the cars I drove at the launch of the new A5, which included the Q7, S8, S6, Allroader, A5 3.0d and S3, the one car that impressed me the most was the little TTv6 S-Tronic, it's one very polished wee car which shouts quality beyond anything this side of £60K that don't have an Audi brand on it's nose.

[SigmaS6]

the one car that impressed me the most was the little TTv6 S-Tronic, it's one very polished wee car which shouts quality beyond anything this side of £60K that don't have an Audi brand on it's nose.
Imo the combination of power, handling, DSG and AWD would make an TT-RS one of the best choices in this segment. Plus the RS models are good examples for understatement: unless you really know about those models you'll have no idea how fast and expensive that car is. Personally I like that very much and instead of driving a cheap Cayman I'd go for a fully specced RS all the time.

And concerning the Porsche price model: if you spec a Cayman S with everything that sounds like fun you'll end up in the range of a 911, by when you should ask yourself if the Cayman S is really the best choice. Then you can put out just a bit more and end up with a Carrera 4S, but by that time you left the TT price range a long time ago...

[Leadfoot]

A Cayman S with the right spec which is needed for re-sale ends up well over £50K and sorry but that places the car well beyond the TT/S even if performance wise they won't be to far apart. Sure the brand can account for some of this but to me the only reason for picking a Cayman over the TT is pure snobbery, plain and simply.

[RussianM3_dude]

and yet again, you'd be wrong :lovl:

Whatever, most people would prefer saying they drive a Porsche rather then a dime a dozen TT, however many R/S/RS/RRRSR acronyms it has. The fact that the Porsche will be dynamically superior will be just the icing on the cake.

[RussianM3_dude]

A Cayman S with the right spec which is needed for re-sale ends up well over £50K and sorry but that places the car well beyond the TT/S even if performance wise they won't be to far apart. Sure the brand can account for some of this but to me the only reason for picking a Cayman over the TT is pure snobbery, plain and simply.

The Porker will be a much more fun car to drive, where's the snobbery in that???

I don't know about England, but here in Switzerland a V6 TT will all the bits that look like fun, is already pretty pricey. Base price for the S should be almost the same as a base Cayman S.

[SigmaS6]

Whatever, most people would prefer saying they drive a Porsche rather then a dime a dozen TT
It's a matter of your POV: do you buy the car to impress others or do you buy it to impress yourself? If you don't care about other peoples opinion, or as in my case even prefer it if they get the wrong opinion you buy a car based on the technical aspects, not based on the image.

And if you then live in a country where rain and snow are nothing unusual you think twice about going for a Cayman S anyway.


Base price for the S should be almost the same as a base Cayman S.
But we both know what the base price includes for a Prosche. If you'd try to buy a base version from your dealer you could probably see him turn pale as clay :D

[Iceman]

I don't want to be found dead in a Porsche to be honest, let alone to be alive.

Hans.

[RussianM3_dude]

It's a matter of your POV: do you buy the car to impress others or do you buy it to impress yourself? If you don't care about other peoples opinion, or as in my case even prefer it if they get the wrong opinion you buy a car based on the technical aspects, not based on the image.

And if you then live in a country where rain and snow are nothing unusual you think twice about going for a Cayman S anyway.


But we both know what the base price includes for a Prosche. If you'd try to buy a base version from your dealer you could probably see him turn pale as clay :D

I am not talking about muself. I would definetly choose fun over prestige, however for 90% of people it's different AND Porsche would be better to drive.

[artur777]

Though Cayman is not a very popular car.
People often choose 911 instead as it is positioned higher and costs not that much higher.

[Leadfoot]

RussianM3_dude,

Agreed that for pure enjoyment around a track nothing and I mean nothing comes close to a Cayman that doesn't carry a six figure price tag. But on the road where most of the time is spent either on the motorway, in traffic or in a queue the Cayman and that Porsche badge stands for nothing. Like I said they are noisy to point that on long journeys it gave me a headache, that steering which was great on the track was a distraction on a bumpy road and fact still remains that you are driving a Porsche and as such you will have to joys of coming out of a night club to seeing go-faster strips have been added courtesy of a key.

Need I say more.

[RussianM3_dude]

I think TTs will be the target of vandals just as much. Besides, I drove the Cayman on the road and it seemed very easy to live with AND it did fine in the rain.

[Leadfoot]

Funny how a car which in general terms is regarded a lot worse than the likes of the RS4 in rain and yet you find the opposite.

Funny that, but then again you time with the car has been limited.

[RussianM3_dude]

I didn't say RS4 was bad in the rain. I only said it was not THAT good, due to somewhat unpredictable front end grip.

[Iceman]

The RS4 is one of the best cars in the world in the rain/snow IMHO.

Hans.

[RussianM3_dude]

Putting the power down with no drama, yes. Understeering like a pig on skates... YESSSS!!!!!

[Leadfoot]

I think you are mistaking safety for understeer, there is a difference. The rest are giving you a hard time but clearly you have some issues with Audi cars in general because of the RS4, but to regard the RS4 an understeering pig on skates, apart from making me laugh makes me think you haven't driven anything with any power at all.

The RS4 have the same level of grip as a new M3 so you have to class it the same. The RS4 has better traction out of and through any corner plus it's easily approached limits make for a car which builds confidence in it's driver.

The problem I have with your opinions of the RS4 is that quite a few including myself has had some semi-professional racing experience and none are experiencing anything like what you describe.

I still doubt you actually own and drive a RS4 based on your comments.

[RussianM3_dude]

I am not a total stranger to tracks...

http://forums.montrealracing.com/showthread.php?t=489821

[+44 Dave]

I am not a total stranger to tracks...

http://forums.montrealracing.com/showthread.php?t=489821



If you thought the finish in your £50,000 RS4 was bad, i'd love to see what you thought you the finish in some Ferrari's. I used to regularly go out with a friend who had a F355 and almost each journey we took something fell off the interior. One day we had stopped outside a pub and when returning, after having a few drinks, i pulled the door handle a bit to hard, not realising the car didnt have central locking and the handle came straight off the body work. This was partly due to the handles location as you have to pull up on it and the force i put on it.
It was worth it for the noise though. I expect modern Ferraris particularly the touring models (599 and 612) will be much better finished but the 360 is known to be poorly made as well.

[RussianM3_dude]

Didn't notice that.

[Leadfoot]

I'm interested in your opinions of the F430 as I have tracked both it and the 360. Were both F1 transmission cars and what did you think of the overall experience of driving a Ferrari.

[RussianM3_dude]

The 430 transmission is next to perfect for such type. The 360 was still a bit raw, especially on downshifts, it was a bit hesitant and also at rest it "spinned the clutch" too much. There was a slight delay between giving it gas and the car advancing, made jumping into openings in traffic a bit tricky and jerky. No such problem with the 430.

As for track, I only tried the 430 coupe and Spider. The coupe is actually a very effective track tool, especially with CCeramic brakes. This is a car you actually learn with you won't be that fast with it if you are no good. One thing that I found interesting is that in a turn, you basically kept braking as you were well on your way turning towards the apex. Mass transfer or something.
Obviously if you do a lot of track days I can see how you may want a challenge stradale/scuderia or a Radical/JaguarPalmer, but for occasional trips to the track, I think a regular coupe is fine.

[Leadfoot]

Actually I wasn't impressed by the 360 at all, I found the all experience very raw with none of the finesse that the GT3 has. The Porsche feels very much the trackday tool where as the Ferrari felt very much out of it's depth, especially when you really lean on it.

Now the F430 is a much better car, it's balance and power is at a level well above the 360, the thing feels special were as the 360 made you feel and think 'where's the money in this thing?'.

But on the track, for me personally there is only one machine, the GT3. The devil is in the detail.:hahahehe:

[RussianM3_dude]

Never tried the GT3 but I suspect it will be better, then again it should be compared to the Scuderia really.

[artur777]

Never tried the GT3 but I suspect it will be better, then again it should be compared to the Scuderia really.

I have read about your travel to Ferrari base.
Interesting one!

+ 1 Rep. :cheers:

[Leadfoot]

Never tried the GT3 but I suspect it will be better, then again it should be compared to the Scuderia really.

This again prove how over priced Ferraris are when you need to go to something which is double the price of the Porsche to compete. :hihi:

And great as the GT3 is, I reckon that Porsche could easily better it with a trackday special of the Cayman. :looking:

[RussianM3_dude]

Well, Porsche has huge economies of scale and no expensive race series to maintain. Like comparing a Rolex to a Vacheron Constantin. My biggest beef with Porsche are the weedy engines (except for GT/Turbo). The 300hp Cayman just felt plain slow, and most modern Porsche engines don't sound that good.

[Leadfoot]

Well, Porsche has huge economies of scale and no expensive race series to maintain. Like comparing a Rolex to a Vacheron Constantin. My biggest beef with Porsche are the weedy engines (except for GT/Turbo). The 300hp Cayman just felt plain slow, and most modern Porsche engines don't sound that good.

Well there again you have gone off on one of your blond moments, Porsche build some of the best engine in the world and this includes the humble Cayman/Boxster units. The fact that they are all but indestructible hold little water with you it seems and their torque range is as impressive as many a unit fitted with turbos pulling cleanly from less than 500rpm. Power for power I reckon Porsche engines produce more acceleration than anything, just look at the Cayman S to the S5 and Z4M Coupe, both have a higher PTW but the Porsche is their equal in acceleration.

I think you are once again getting suck in to this numbers thing that a lot of manufactures seem to think is important, including Audi, Mercedes and BMW, but mainly it's Italian rivals. Outright acceleration is only really an argument settler when the two drivers are crap to begin with and are only capable of racing in a straight line, but Porsche are one of those companies which understand that finesse of the chassis and brakes can prove more of a leveler than pure grunt in most cases and this can be seen in almost every group test that involves a Porsche. I might prefer the TT over a Cayman but on a given stretch of road no power advantage would give the TT the victory if the Porsche is in the hands of a gifted driver.

With regards to the Cayman, I drove a basic Boxster against other Porsches on the Porsche trackday which including 997 S cars with ceramics and this weedy Boxster with 230+hp had the licking of all of them. On the track never underestimate the Cayman because chances are you'll be watching your mirror, not to see him fade in to the distance but watching to make sure you aren't holding him up.

[RussianM3_dude]

I know the Cayman is fast on track, I don't doubt that, What I am saying is that it just doesn't feel fast on the road... You know everyday. I have tried pretty much every regular 911 model and it's the same story, they just don't have the oomph. I also find BMW 3.0 liter superior to the 2.7 and the 3.2 VASTLY superior to the 3.4 and this is an informed opinion even if you don't agree with it. I find the Z4 more fun to drive, but obviously the Boxter is a much better handler, no question.

[tazsura]

The "feel of power aspect" is a common comment with regards to Porsche. However, most will understand that this is due to the fact that their modern chassis's are soo well sorted that they inevitably feel as though they can handle more power and thus, feel anaemic as a result.

I was test driving a 964 a couple of weeks ago, and can safely say that was as much fun i've had in a car in a long time. "Only" circa 250bhp but felt like soo much more! Great fun, and i will be going back for more....

Taz :burnout:

[tazsura]

I'd take a 360 CS over a 430 every day of the week. Its better in every department in my book.

430 Scud is the only 430 i would consider

Definately!

A 360CS passes my Office everyday and downchanges just as he passes as we are on a bend....I WANT IT!

Taz :dig:

[tazsura]

Oh, and i forgot to mention, its probably the best sounding Ferrari. Although a mate has just wacked a Tubi on his Enzo - yet to hear that.

Same mate has just come back from Fiorano for the launch event of the 430 Scud. Wil post his pics up later. Massa and Kimi showing the car off.

Looks great in black.

Question - Does your Mate need another mate? Lol

Seriously, The Tubi sound amazing (heard one on a Murcie) but don't know if could live with it.

A Black Scuderia 430 must look Hoooooot!

Pics ASAP PLEASE!

Taz :asian:

[RussianM3_dude]

I'd take a 360 CS over a 430 every day of the week. Its better in every department in my book.

430 Scud is the only 430 i would consider

Well obviously. it's like comparing a 996 GT3 and a 997C2S. I would take a CS over a regular 430 too. On my recent trip to Mugello, some dudes 360CS on slicks and a wing was not far off a 430 Challenge in lap times. And I find the 360 pretty well made. The only "bemole" is the F1 box which is good but not great.

[RussianM3_dude]

Oh, and i forgot to mention, its probably the best sounding Ferrari. Although a mate has just wacked a Tubi on his Enzo - yet to hear that.

Same mate has just come back from Fiorano for the launch event of the 430 Scud. Wil post his pics up later. Massa and Kimi showing the car off.

Looks great in black.

A dude (well he is almost 50) was supposed to attend it too. He is ordering one.

[Leadfoot]

We have had very different experiences of the Cayman. It was fun, but its not that fast and its certanly not a track day hero.

If your talking about a car that bats above its weight due to its handling abiity, its the Lotus Exige - not a question about it.

Its the best handling car i have ever driven. Cayman wouldn't stand a chance

I happen to own a Lotus so my knowledge of their abilities are not new. But you are talking of something that was design mainly for the track and aren't really an everyday opinion in the same way as the Cayman, no car has the steering feel of a Lotus but it's grip is not the ultimate just it's so easily approached, driven at and even beyond. If we are to stick to things more day to day drive able I still believe the Cayman S is hard to better.

As for the Ferraris, I can only comment on my brief time will each and personally I rate the 430 a much better driving machine than the 360, it's more polished and not near as raw. The 430 reminds me more like a Porsche, more German in it's engineering overkill than the 360, it feels more Italian, in much the same way as a lot of people prefer the pre-Audi Lamborghinis but where I am the opposite.

[Iceman]

You all are way way off topic here.....
Can a moderator clean this threat up and remove all non TTS stuff.

Hans.

[RussianM3_dude]

Ok.

Alright, so I am sure if Audi improves the TTr over the regular model as much as the RS4 over the A4, many people will be interested. However I still can't imagine people will be getting them over a Cayman. There are just too many TTs around, many with those aftermarket kits.
Here in Switzerland I can't see this happening.

[Iceman]

Ok.

Alright, so I am sure if Audi improves the TTr over the regular model as much as the RS4 over the A4, many people will be interested. However I still can't imagine people will be getting them over a Cayman. There are just too many TTs around, many with those aftermarket kits.
Here in Switzerland I can't see this happening.
Here in the Netherlands they are still not common.
I still don't see them every day, only 1 or 2 times a week.
Last week i only saw a red one.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

In the UK we buy more Audi TTs than anyone, including Germany and if your lucky you will see 3 per week. In fact where I live there is only 3 new shaped TTs, one 3.2Coupe, a 2.0 Cab and a 2.0 Coupe. I know of 2 Caymans, and countless Boxsters but as it have been out longer it wouldn't be fair to judge the Boxsters numbers.

I would reckon based on how rare RS models are that the TT/S or TT/RS if it came would be like hen's teeth and far fewer would be on the roads than either of the Caymans.

Imagine if the 2.5TFSi was basically half of the RS6 engine with a little bit more power and torque than the 50% of it. You would get a 315hp monster which produced it's torque from 1500~6250rpm, a thing which would comfortable be able to mix it with the big boys. :love2:

[Iceman]

I like the idea but i starting to have doubts about the fact that a straight five will not fit transverse in a TT body in combination with Haldex/Quattro.
The US Golf, Jetta and New Beetle use it only in combination with FWD.
And the 2.3 VR5 FSI Turbo story need to come from somewhere and based on something.

Hans.

[RacerBice]

This thread is now huuuuuuuuuuuuge, and I don't have the energy to scroll through it in its entirety. So someone..... (Leadfoot?); will there be a TTS or not....?

RB

[Leadfoot]

I was told by the dealer about a month ago that the TT/S will be launched early '08 and the price will be £33K, but I haven't confirmed it from my usual source.

[Leadfoot]

According to Autocar the TT/S has been signed off for production and will be launched early half of next year. Also the TT/RS is lose to getting the rubber stamp for launch sometime in 2009, it will be getting the v5 engine of the US Jetta etc and will be producing the 350hp we have been discussing.

Expect performance to match the current RS4/M3, so should be interesting. :hahahehe:

[Mori]

They should really put regular quattro in the TT platform cars - would be much better to drive. :(

[Iceman]

They should really put regular quattro in the TT platform cars - would be much better to drive. :(
Just put in Haldex Fourth Generation All-Wheel drive system.

http://www.haldex-xwd.com

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

I reckon this would be equally as good as the original Quattro system of the A4 and above and if my eyes seen correctly this version of Haldex allows all of the power to shift to either axle and either side.

[SigmaS6]

Sounds too good to be true. I'd like to see this in the TT, but i don't think Audi would do an upgrade like this during the normal life cycle. Maybe for the RS, but currently I'd say we're lucky if we see that at all.

[Mori]

Just put in Haldex Fourth Generation All-Wheel drive system.

http://www.haldex-xwd.com

Hans.

This system sucks for me until 4% of torque is directed to the rear wheels for normal driving "in order to conserve fuel (...)". ;)

I'm not a fan of more power in the front unfortunately...

[Leadfoot]

Mori,

Surely you have driven the new TT and the S3, both are among the best handling front bias awd cars around. I really like both and only really see the front bias thing becoming a problem if you go on track where even the modern touring cars are a bit boring to drive so I'm told. But on the road where you are never really pushing to the limits of grip I reckon this system would be a hoot.

[Mori]

Haven't driven the S3, had a go on a track with the new TT 3.2 with magnetic ride though. Not much fun to tell the truth .... compared to my RS. ;) Its just too quiet, etc.

Yes they might be excellent in that regard, but I really prefer RWD over FWD (not counting quattro of course), and I did promise myself I wouldn't buy myself a FWD car ever - unless it was a previous gen. CooperS JCW. ;)