Sportauto supertest: Corvette Z06

[Erik]

7-litres V8 engine
bore x stroke: 104.8 x 101.6 mms
compression: 11.0 : 1
512 PS at 6,300 rpm
72.2 PS/litre
637 NM at 4,800 rpm

0-100 km/h: 4.5 secs.
0-160 km/h: 8.9 secs.
0-200 km/h: 13.6 secs.

Vmax: 320 km/h

kerb weight: 1440 kg
power-to-weight: 355.55 PS/ton

100-0 km/h: 35.1/34.4 m with cold/warm brakes
200-0 km/h: 140.2 m

av. fuel consumption in test: 17.4 l/100 km

18 m slalom: 68.2 km/h
36 m slalom: 134 km/h
110 m evasion test: 142 km/h

wet handling: 1:32.7 mins.

Nurburgring: 7:49 mins.
Hockenheimring: 1:11.7 mins.


FAST!!! :deal:


Porsche Carrera GT ------------------------------------- 7.32 min
Pagani Zonda F ----------------------------- 7.33 min
Koenigsegg CCR --------------------------- 7.34 min
Pagani Zonda S ----------------------------------------- 7.44 min
Porsche 911 GT2 (462hp) ------------------------------ 7.46 min
Lamborghini Murciélago LP640 -------------------------------- 7.47 min
Porsche 996 GT3 RS ----------------------------------------- 7.47 min
Porsche 997 GT3 RS ----------------------------------------- 7.48 min (R-tire)
Porsche 997 GT3 ----------------------------------------- 7.48 min (R-tire)
Corvette C6 Z06 ------------------------------------------ 7.49 min
Lamborghini Murciélago -------------------------------- 7.50 min

[Ruergard]

Very fast indeed! :revs:

[Benman]

Cheapest "real" car that goes that fast around the Ring. Yes, I know Donkeyworts (:D) or whatever they're called are even quicker, but I'm talking "real" cars.

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

Ben,

Are you right in calling an American car, a 'real' car.:D

[Fab]

fast indeed but very difficult to drive as fast as the numbers released by Sportauto.

[Benman]

Ben,

Are you right in calling an American car, a 'real' car.:D

:applause:

Well, no less "real" than British cars... oh wait, they're all made by Germans now, so I guess they would be "real"... :applause:

Ben:addict:

[PeterJohn]

I've grown to dislike the Z06 b/c of the marketing, and the kind of people that buy them. A big wall street corperation with bad books is able to undercut the price of the competition, and they act like they are David versus Goliath. As if Porsche couldn't build a piece of tupperware with a big engine, and loose billions of investors money doing it. As a human being, you buy a car in part for social reasons. I wouldn't buy a Z06, b/c I don't want to be associated with self proclaimed underdogship. Not by actual underdogs, and certainly not by the upper middle class owners of the Z06. Give me the arrogance of a Porsche any day over false humility.

Great piece of engineering, though. If it was made by some humble company, bought by straight forward folk, I would put it on the wish list.

Some pictures of the latest evolution of the Donkervoort. Weighs only 20kg more than the regular version, despite the roof and stuff like an adjustable suspension. It's an aerodynamic masterpiece. Will cost about double of the Z06. But traditionally a Donkervoort depreciates at a rate equal to inflation. Making it one of the cheapest cars in world. At a maximum production of 50 cars per year, the GT version will be no different. I wonder what you'll get for your Z06 in 5 years time.

[Benman]

Peter,

My intention was not to imply that American cars are "real" and others are not. Merely that Porsches, Corvettes, Lambos, etc... are "real" vs track day specials such as Donkervoort, Radicals, etc. I was not "knocking" the engineering behind those cars, merely the practicality of them.

As for the economics of it (my interests)...

That is very good indeed if Donkervoorts only lose resale @ equivalent to depreciation. If we set that at @ 3.5%, we come up with the following (assuming it really is double the purchase price of a Z06):

Donkervoort:

$144,000.00USD total 5 year payment at 5.75apr (interest included):
$176032.93 (including the $10K down payment)
At 3.5% annual loss in value: $120,503.00 resale value

$56K loss

Z06:

$72,000.00USD total 5 year payment at 5.75apr (interest included):
$88,016.40 (including $5K down payment to keep all things equal)
can't predict the future of 07' resales, so must use 02's for reference. They sell for @$34-37K. New they cost $55K... that is a 36% loss, so for a assumed 36% loss on a 07' in 5 years, it would sell for @ $46K) so resale would be:

a 42K loss

However, we have not addressed the additional $1383.61 5 year monthly payment the Z06 owner saved. Had he invested it in a conservative (along with the other $5K that the Donkervoort owner used on the downpayment) 9.5%apy mutual fund (again, can not predict the future, but most funds have managed 10%+ over the last 5 years... he'd have $105,876.00 if his investment was taxed at a rate of 25%.

So the Z06 owner would after 5 years have $46K + $105K for a total of $151K for his total "investment" of $176K whereas teh Donkervoort owner would have $120K...

The Z06 owner has an additional $56K over his Donkervoort friend. So no, the Donkervoort is not a cheaper car than the Z06.

Now, as for GM's arrogance, I think the company is also run poorly (hence, I have no stocks with them) but this is not as much due to the cars (although most are admittedly subpar) as it does with the dumb labor unions and health insurance/pension issues. In fact, it is so bad, GM is sad to lose $2500.00 PER CAR vs the Toyota equivalent!!! No wonder the share holders are getting screwed and no wonder Toyota is now the world's largest car company! But this hardly has anything to do with the Z06 itself. As you even state: "Great piece of engineering, though."

As for Porsche building a fantastic car that can lose lots of invester's money... they did... it was called the 959.

Again, my comments had nothing to do with "American superiority" and everything to do with prcacticality. A "useable" car and not a trackday special.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

:applause:

Well, no less "real" than British cars... oh wait, they're all made by Germans now, so I guess they would be "real"... :applause:

Ben:addict:

Good reply.:bow:

No joking aside I see PeterJohn's opinion about the Z06, it's achieving the same results as either a Porsche or a Ferrari for a fraction of their price but the difference isn't as great this side of the water as it is state side. A Z06 costs £60~65K in the UK compared to £85~90K for a GT3, the Porsche is a scalpel compared to the butcher's knife that the Z06, both able to cut through fresh just one is more precise at it.

GM believe that quality interiors and great finishes aren't that important and this may be correct for the American public but over here where Porsche, BMW, Mercedes and Audi are the norm and we are use to quality interiors, fit & finish, in fact even the humble Ford or Opal have a better quality feel than the Z06.

For GM to be rated in the same class as the others they will have to up their game and unfortunately this will up the price of the car to something approaching that of Porsche.

Remember Porsche is called the bargain supercar for a reason and it's a title they won't let go of easily.

[KK265]

Z 06 is slower than C6 on the wet!
Any scans anyone please?

[gjg]

Originally Posted by Leadfoot http://www.rs6.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?p=95551#post95551)
Ben,

Are you right in calling an American car, a 'real' car.:D


Ben got a point, and let's not forget since Germans took over the British car industry there is no need for a second car in the garage for spare parts ..... :applause: :applause: :applause:

[PeterJohn]

I wasn't aiming directly at you Ben. I recently visited a Z06 board, and there was just too much BS. I also saw a ALMS documentairy about the Corvette team on Discorvery channel, and it was embarrasing to watch. Some big factory team beating small teams with cash flow is nothing new in motorsport. But going on about how much of an underdog you are, b/c the road car costs less, is bad sportsmenship. Those other teams have to count every penny. And they use Porsches, b/c they can't afford to turn any random car into a racecar.

I wouldn't mind if GM was arrogant. Instead they are false.

Now Donkervoort is a company that has really struggled. They don't enjoy special treatment like other small automakers in GB for instance. The left elitist politicians of continental Europe hate the automobile (probably afraid of peoples freedom). So they gave Donkervoort a hard time. Donkervoort has had to live up to every single regulation, of every single country. And that for a car that is based on a 60ies kit car. To sell the car in Spain, they had to make 150 changes.

Donkervoort has to build every car twice. Only one model is regulated. So they build each car as that model first, get it registered, then take it back to the factory to rebuild it according to spec.

The Donkervoort is an achievement against the odds. It's not one of these ultima type deals. Not some tub frame with an engine and a plastic body. It's an actual car. Some are daily drivers. It's as comfortable as a sportscar should be, it's fast and up to date, it's solid as a rock. Almost all Donkervoorts ever build are stilling running. It took hard work and skill, not big numbers.

With the change over to euros it's hard to tell the depreciation of the Donkervoort. However, the price of a second hand Donkervoort is still the same as the competition in the current new car market. So that's why I discribed it the way I did with inflation. Post euro cars seem to have lost little to non of their value.

Cars like the Corvette are often a false economy. No car is a sound investment, but what appears cheaper at first might be expensive in the long run. You make a lot of assumtions in your calculation. I don't think any Donkervoort has ever been bought in payments. And it's the new GT that costs double, in comparison to US price. The Z06 costs €115k in Holland. Here in Belgium only about €90k. But since tax/insurance is based on engine size, you'll probably pay over €15k a year to keep a license plate on it. My humble Diesel cost €5k to get it registered. But it's a tax friendly version. One kW more, and it would've doubled. A base Donkervoort is €45k, the GT starts at €125k. The small engine is more tax friendly.

I checked it out, and the Corvette does seem to hold it's value well. In the US, that is. Here, big engines are not popular on the second hand market. For Europe a Donkervoort is an all round better deal. A normal version won't be as fast as the Corvette, though. But the roof stays on at cruising speeds, and that's always a plus.

Looks like the pictures didn't work. Here's an excellent gallery (http://www.donkervoort.info/gallery/Donkervoort-D8-GT-Coup%E9) of the new streamlined Donkervoort GT.

[Leadfoot]

Ben got a point, and let's not forget since Germans took over the British car industry there is no need for a second car in the garage for spare parts ..... :applause: :applause: :applause:

Oh gig that hurt, I feel wounded by your statement.:cry:

OK we don't have a car industry as such these days but we are the leaders in car technology, to prove my point a little question to you all.

HOW MANY F1 TEAMS ARE BASED IN GERMANY OR ANY OTHER PART OF EUROPE OTHER THAN THE UK? :hihi:

[Benman]

I wasn't aiming directly at you Ben. I recently visited a Z06 board, and there was just too much BS...

The Donkervoort is an achievement against the odds. It's not one of these ultima type deals. You make a lot of assumtions in your calculation.



PeterJohn,

You make many excellent points. I wasn't really trying to "dis" the Donkervoort by calling it Donkeywort, merely, didn't know how to spell it and decided on a play of words. And yes, I'll admit ignorace to it being different than an Ultima (which I thought it was just like). I have no problems with cars like Ultimas, Radicals, etc... in fact, I came very close to purchasing an Ultima. SO thank you for pointing out that the Donkervoort is in fact, not a kit car like the Ultima. I still do not believe it would make as good as a daily driver as a Z06 would, but that is only my opinion.

As for my assumptions, you are correct, as I could have no way of guessing the retail price of the Z06 in several different EU countries, nor could I fathom the resale value in those countries.

And yes, GM throws way more money at their "underdog" racing program than their competition does, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's fun to see a $70K car whoop a $150K car's butt, but then, large amounts of money will do that. ;)

I think the main point of this thread was that the Z06 (at least here in the States) is excellent value. It is cheap to insure (relatively speaking), cheap to maintain, and has some excellent duribility over the long haul. For Americans, it is a fantastic value.

I didn't mean to come off as having no respect for Donkervoort, as I'm all too familiar with the little guy trying to compete with the big dogs... afterall, it was GM's pure arogance many years ago that doomed teh American car industry when they sabotaged Tucker's car program. By their actions, they closed the door on alternative American manufactures, and opened up the floodgates to imports... and now we have Toyota as the worlds #1 automotive manufacture... was Tucker a profit? Yes he was.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[gmbh6]

fast indeed but very difficult to drive as fast as the numbers released by Sportauto.

Vettes are notorious for whale tailing....but that's half the fun.




I've grown to dislike the Z06 b/c of the marketing, and the kind of people that buy them.

I wouldn't go as far as generalizing the people that buy them. Possibly abroad but here in the US the people I see driving ZO6's are about as regular as you can get. Now some of those M3 & S4 drivers can be a little pompous....but they're usually younger and eventually grow out of it :D





As for Porsche building a fantastic car that can lose lots of invester's money... they did... it was called the 959.
Ben:addict:

:doh: my brother in law has one of those.

[Leadfoot]

I think the problem this side of the water is how the manufactures can charge so little for their cars state side. The Vette over here is roughly £65K which with current exchange rates would be $125K. That means we are paying over $50K more and that is why we don't rate the car the same as you in the US do.

It may be a great car but only at the US price over here is over-priced and HOW.

[Northalius]

I've read these tests were done in the wet.

It'd explain the 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds... when Car and Driver got 0-60 in 3.4 seconds on their own. The official 0-60 for the Z06 is around 3.7 seconds.

The Z06 also got a 7:42 laptime around N-ring on another run.

[Leadfoot]

I see there is to be an even quicker Z06 coming out called the 'Blue Devil' which is reportedly running a blower and 600hp.:bigeyes:

Reports are also saying that already the test mule is dipping below the 7:42 time of the standard Z06, mightly impressive for what is a car with suspension from the dark ages.:jlol:

[Northalius]

I see there is to be an even quicker Z06 coming out called the 'Blue Devil' which is reportedly running a blower and 600hp.:bigeyes:

Reports are also saying that already the test mule is dipping below the 7:42 time of the standard Z06, mightly impressive for what is a car with suspension from the dark ages.:jlol:

Yes. The "Blue Devil" was its old nickname; I believe the official tag is the "Corvette SS" now. It'll have more than 600 hp, actually. There was an article I was reading, interviewing an official that is working on the very car, saying something like "Oh, 600 hp is where our rivals are at; we don't want to be on par, but better than our rivals..."

Many have said 650 hp for a long time, and that statement from the official at Corvette just backs it up now.

He said they might try 700 hp the next year ('09), maybe. :D

If memory is correct, this Corvette SS will be lighter than the current C6 Z06 Corvette, which is lighter than a Carrera GT. So, we can only imagine what the Corvette SS's speed is going to be like! :O

I believe I heard it's rumored to be made almost entirely of carbon fiber on the outside.

I'm assuming the price is going to be around $100,000... which'll be a STEAL for the performance! It'll be like how the C6 Z06 is so cheap, yet has $150,000-$200,000 performance. :)

I just HOPE they throw nice, full, leather interior inside the SS. ;)

[Benman]

I just HOPE they throw nice, full, leather interior inside the SS. ;)

Please do! Hopefully the interior is overhauled as well!

Ben:addict:

[Leadfoot]

I am not wanting to dis the Corvette as it's an icon in the same way as the 911 is and the Lotus Seven, all have stood the test of time and are still here and selling well, but like Ben says the interior especially is a major let down, the words low rent spring to mind which is a shame as on a whole the electric is generally sound and the car is packed with the most up to date technology.

I have always got the feeling that American car manufactures don't see this as a problem, feeling that the American public are only concerned with their bang for their buck so to speak. I look at the beautifully styled concept cars that their always come out with that shows only to be let down with the finished product, the looks are usually there with the style but the finish is always a disappointment.

Does any of you over the pond feel the same way or has the manufacturers hit the nail of the head and in fact the quality of the materials aren't that important.

[Northalius]

I am not wanting to dis the Corvette as it's an icon in the same way as the 911 is and the Lotus Seven, all have stood the test of time and are still here and selling well, but like Ben says the interior especially is a major let down, the words low rent spring to mind which is a shame as on a whole the electric is generally sound and the car is packed with the most up to date technology.

I have always got the feeling that American car manufactures don't see this as a problem, feeling that the American public are only concerned with their bang for their buck so to speak. I look at the beautifully styled concept cars that their always come out with that shows only to be let down with the finished product, the looks are usually there with the style but the finish is always a disappointment.

Does any of you over the pond feel the same way or has the manufacturers hit the nail of the head and in fact the quality of the materials aren't that important.

I believe you hit the nail on the head, actually. Many that 'diss' American cars from foreign contries mostly believe that American car companies don't know how to make good, quality cars; not true. It's just that most American's (sadly) don't care much for top quality interior, or great handling around corners at higher speeds! When they want to merely spend less money on the car. They want to save money! lol

They don't go track racing with their cars, so the suspension in most American cars aren't bothered to be made great for cornering.

And if they want to, they can always get leather interior on their own installed in their car.

I said I hope they throw leather interior in the SS, because I'm sick of hearing the car magazines and car shows (like Top Gear) rag on our cars because of the lack of leather inside. :P

Anyway, I think American car companies were stupid to sit back and just feed one type of buyer; they sat back and watched Europe study up on great handling. Now we're losing many sales in that market.

Slowly, but not too surely yet, American car companies are waking up a little. The Corvette C6, C6 Z06, and the SS are the start... sort of. Saleen S7 was a good start. Had a few glitches in the beginning, but has come up pretty nicely. It's doing pretty good on the GT racing scene.

Mosler with their MT900 is very nice, with a Corvette engine. lol

But, overall, no, American car companies just aren't into make sportscars like Europe. I wish they were! It ticks me off how all the money we could be spending on F1 racing, or GT racing, is going into NASCAR... BLAH!

Ah, well. :)

[Benman]

:addict:
I believe you hit the nail on the head, actually. Many that 'diss' American cars from foreign contries mostly believe that American car companies don't know how to make good, quality cars; not true. It's just that most American's (sadly) don't care much for top quality interior, or great handling around corners at higher speeds! When they want to merely spend less money on the car. They want to save money! lol

They don't go track racing with their cars, so the suspension in most American cars aren't bothered to be made great for cornering...




A stereotype... but a true one. At least 95% of the American public couldn't care a wit what other nations think of their cars. And the same percentage couldn't care a wit about "refined" interiors (which ironically, is where we spend all our time ;))... no, bang for the buck is king... I mean, why buy an expensive import when home built is just "as good". Even I find myself using the phrase "Bang for the Buck" all the time. It is imbedded into the American phyche.

But as you mentioned, the car makers are slowly coming around...

Ben

[Leadfoot]

Northalius,

I can tell you are passionate about your American sportscars. Agreed some of the companies are awakening up to handling but they have to drop the leaf spring suspension to really improve the cars overall handling performance, it's no good making the cars handle if it's at the expense of comfort and as tested in all the European mags, the Corvette while it can handle rides like there is no suspension at all, in fact they reckon it feels like the only suspension comes from the fat tyres.

We all know they can perform, just look at the power/torque and the times they can produce so it's a small step they have to make with regards to finish and handling/ride and they will be there mixing it with the big boys.

My only concern is to achieve this what will it do to the overall price of the finished product, with so many years ignoring this side of the market will have effected any chances they may have had.