RS6 Suspension Issues

[AMG EATR]

Have had the classic thump in the rear suspension as well as a bouncy suspension. The car has been two dealer many times with same complaint and they have been unable to repair. They replaced both central valves, 3 shocks, and a strut but still unable to resolve the loud thump in the rear suspension that many RS6 owners complain of. The dealer now claims the sound is normal in an RS6. Any suggestions.

[Radiation Joe]

You need to go to the AW RS6 forum and search the archives for "DRC repair".

Here is one example. (http://forums.audiworld.com/rs6/msgs/33229.phtml)

[KCRS6]

I would ask the dealer why they have replaced so may parts for a condition they claim is normal.

[Hy Octane]

Tell your dealer that you want him to call AoA in your presence and have someone there comfirm that the RS6 has a loud thump from the rear built in at the factory on all $85,000 RS6 cars standard,.. :rolleyes:

Good luck getting the DRC repaired..

[AMG EATR]

I have already read all the DRC postings and they have helped me understand the problem. I called AoA to file a complaint and they are following up with service manager. The main issue is that the dealer drives car on smooth road so obviously there is no noise from suspension and they claim that noise from suspension over bumps is normal. I really do not know what else to do; dealer claims they train other RS6 techs so they are supposed to be the best.

[Hy Octane]

Tell them you know the days are over where the customer is always right, but how dare they imply that you are lying! Why would you be there reporting a problem if none existed? Now stop trying to discredit me and get on with fixing the problem I have described to you!

[LIRS6]

Then again, you can do what I just did - give up on Audi's total indifference to the issue of DRC, and go the after-maket route; I am awaiting delivery of my STaSIS-Ohlins any day now. I am tired of floating around benders like an old Caddy

[Radiation Joe]

So we all will know who is still dragging their feet.
My dealer in Minneapolis says they will repair mine (when it works fine and shows signs of a tiny leak at two shocks) for $50 as soon as I say "Do it.". I'm not going to take the risk of messing it up until the system has leaked enough fluid to loosen up.

[Hy Octane]

There isnt a whole lot of fluid in there to begin with..

BTW Whats the $50 for?

[Radiation Joe]

CPO warranty deductible is $50.
My car drives fine and has a tiny leak in the LF and RR shocks. Once enough fluid leaks out the central valve will start to bottom out on rebound with the now infamous clunk from the back of the car.

[SoCal]

Thump is not normal. Ypour dealer should fix it, though given their track record you may want the repair done elsewhere.

[Aronis]

Another one bites the dust.....

When I first posted my DRC issues I got FLACK about it because it was "A Rare Problem just with a 'few' cars."

Well Well....

They CAN fix it...they just have to follow the Audi Directions - EXACTLY....
1. find the leaking spots....that's SPOTS...all four seals are suspect, one at each shock.
2. Replace all four shocks, if the fluid was out, the shock inner guts are damaged, thus the CLUNK.
3. Reconnect shocks and tubes,
4. Repressurize shocks and tubes to min 5 barr.
5. Reconnect NEW central valves which come from the factory with 16 barr pressure.

Done.

Anything else is a waste of your time and the shops time.
Price....central valves 1300 each, shocks 400 each (or less, not 100% sure on the shocks).
Value of YOUR TIME going back and forth...priceless.

Mike

[AMG EATR]

Mike,

Thanks for info and you are 100% correct. My dealer replaced 3 shocks but all at seperate times and they have replaced the central valves for the second time and there is still a thump. Dealer originally fixed thump then it came back actually. They probably should have replaced all four shocks from the start but I guess they will only replace if they see a leak. My dealer says they did the best they can and now claim that thump sound is normal after 3 shocks, strut, and replacing center valves twice. Waiting for a response from AoA.

[AMG EATR]

Mike,

Are your instructions posted clearly in the techs manual. I do not understand why the tech did not replace all four shocks from the start.

Dan

[Aronis]

The basic take is that if a shock is emptied of fluid or partially that shock cannot be trusted.

If all the check valves work and all the seals are replaced, there is not much lost by not replacing a possibly damaged shock, as long as it can be precharged to 5 barr and it does not leak after the NEW central valve is installed.

So from a common sense standpoint the extra money spent on replacing all four shocks at the onset will most likely save the added cost of replacing the central valves TWICE.

The valves are $1400 each, while the shocks are 300 or 400 each...do the math.

My guys went through THREE sets of central valves before replacing the front shocks, and fortunately the newly installed new REAR shocks did not get damaged when the then fully repressurized soon to leak front shocks actually began to leak AS I PREDICTED to them.

What happened is the rear seals went first, leaking from the rear, emptying the REAR shocks (both) thus the bouncing rear end and the clunk. By the time they trouble shot the bouncing car and sent me back and forth FOUR hours each way the rears were completely empty. Since the pressure was down the RATE of loss of fluid was slow enough that the front shocks did not appear to become damaged.

They replaced the rear seals, repressured to the 5 barr (most they can do at the shop) but did not replace the central valves until I started screaming at them....then they finally agreed to replace the rear shocks which had been damaged but at least were not leaking at that point.

Once the system was repressuzed with new Central Valves the system was back to that 16 barr number....it did not take a rocket scientist to predict that the same problem with the seals in the rear would also effect the front. By the time I drove off the lot the system had already began to get soft. They then replaced the FRONT shocks and seals, but the central valves had already become depressurized. They had already gone through two sets of central valves by that point if I recall the exact sequence of events.

The second dealership which I stumbled on in Cicero noted that the suspension was not right immediately when they drove it. They found another leak up front, replaced the tubing/check valve, repressurized the four shocks and after making sure there were NO LEAKS, connected set number three of central valves, and the car was close to normal where it remains. Fortunately for me.

I offered to buy the four shocks in the first place, figuring if not needed I'd simply have then available for the future. The price was about $1200 for the four if I recall. My time was worth more than that....

They wasted about $3000 in parts, plus extra labor, plus MY TIME fixing it.

Audi did give me two months lease payments back though, and I used that to buy the extended warrantee as I ate up about 8000 miles of my warrantee going back and forth over 3 months.

Good luck.

Mike

[AMG EATR]

Mike,

Thanks for the help. Sounds like my problem is very similar as the central valves were replaced twice and system is still not right. Still waiting on AoA response. Did you deal with anyone at AoA who may be able to help me.

[Aronis]

Mike,

Thanks for the help. Sounds like my problem is very similar as the central valves were replaced twice and system is still not right. Still waiting on AoA response. Did you deal with anyone at AoA who may be able to help me.

Glenn Mac Gregor
Technical Field Manager

Audi of America
Product Quality and Technical Service
Northeast region
753 Forest St.
Marlboro, MA 01752
Tel.508 460 0358
Fax. 508 460 1891

[AMG EATR]

Mike,

I have talked with Glen already, he was pretty passive about the whole issue. AoA called and service manager said the suspension is sport and should make loud noises over bumps. They say there is nothing else they can do. I knew the service manager would say that and AoA is using this as a copout. ANy suggestions.

[Aronis]

Supposed to make loud noices over bumps???

BULLexcrement>

My answer...don't buy another (*&()^&*%(Audi...

Mike

[gjg]

AoA called and service manager said the suspension is sport and should make loud noises over bumps.

this is crap - there is a sport suspension option for rs (a stock on +) and rest assured it does not make ANY F.....G noises over bumps. And we have plenty here - local roads make Detroit look like Ferrari F1 testing grounds. :doh:

I'd go over AoA's rep to his management - it is obvious he is not there to help you, the customer.

[Aronis]

These posts bring back too many memories of the crappy after-sales-service I have recieved at the hands of AOA with regard to my DRC repair.

While the guy working on my car now at a different dealership was able to fix my DRC right the first time and has done excellent work, I have to say, I doubt I'll ever buy/lease another Audi. My current lease is up in December and I was planning on buying the car at that point, and it probably will be a good value, but the thought of having another DRC issue scares the crap out of me as I do not want to begin dumping large amounts of money into this car.

My Platinum Extended warratee is the 5 year 75000 mile on which as the fine print says runs out this January 1 (5 years from Jan 1 of the MODEL YEAR, not the purchase year), so I basically bought enought extrawarrantee to cover the extra miles over my 48k/4y warrantee. This was a pure ripoff of a extended warrantee, and I was foolish not to carefully read all the fine print, but I did ask for enough coverage to cover the car through to the end of 2008, ie 5 years from my purchase date.

So overall, AOA/Audi, as all autodealers, cannot be trusted.

Mike

[Hy Octane]

Ya know, I just thought of something.. When they replace the accumulators, what do they do with the old ones they removed? They send them back to be refilled. So, why would they cost $1500 when all we are doing is basically having them recharged, not replaced? Shouldnt we only be charged for the refilling and shipping? (this assuming the car is out of warranty btw)..:vhmmm:

[Aronis]

I don't think they feal it is safe to recharge them!
From a safety/legal risk perspective it's probably the policy to just junk them.
Mike

[simon]

Hi guys I live in the Uk and own a 2 year old RS6 it is in the dealers now for the second set of shocks and valves last set only lasted 6 months ! took 2 week to convince dealer the banging in the back was not standard !
nor reluctantly thinking of getting rid before warranty runs out anyone know if the air system on the S8 is more reliable

[s42ski]

I guess I can add my story to this list - brought the car in for a 40K mile oil change and to take care of some rattles and check the brakes. When I put the new wheels on I noticed a very small shock leak and had them look at that as well. Dealer is now debating if they need to replace all 4 shocks ( 2 are leaking on a diagonal). I suggested they replace all 4 based on what I have read here. That plus new brakes ( second time for pads and rotors). If this was out of warranty I would be out $5K or so ?:nana:

At least they gave me a new A3 as a loaner car - more fun than the A4 that I usually get.

[Hy Octane]

Dude. make sure they observe the ride before surgery so you have an argument if they screw it up. You going to pacific?

[s42ski]

Yes, car is at Pacific, we did a "before" drive around prior to the work to get the tech info on the rattles, as well as how it feels so we can do an "after".

We are at day 3 of repairs.

[s42ski]

Oh brother - they are only going to replace the diagonal that is leaking:nana: and not replace all 4.

From what I can gather it will be likely that the other 2 will fail shortly after this fix is performed.

The only good news is the dealer is about 3 miles from my house.....

This is not looking good. I called Gregg and it sounds like this problem is very widespread. Apparently Audi does not have a corporate policy on how to fix this yet. Perhaps I should send them to this site???

[Hy Octane]

Have they started the work yet? If not, take it up to Bev Hills P/A and ask for Tim.. The guys there have it figured out.. they have done several...GL!!

[s42ski]

That's what makes me think this problem is getting generic, the service manager told me they have done 4 rs4 and rs6 suspensions in the last month.

Will AoA please stand up and fix this issue ?

[jimmy94507]

That's what makes me think this problem is getting generic, the service manager told me they have done 4 rs4 and rs6 suspensions in the last month.

Will AoA please stand up and fix this issue ?

Audi must have a DRC policy which guides the Service managers/Technicians on replacements. Otherwise, warranty replacements couldn't be justified. My dealer has successfully done several RS6's and a couple RS4's.

I'm just at the 50K mileage limit. No apparent degredation in DRC performance even though I've had over 40 days at various tracks. Car was in shop for final Factory Warranty items. I pointed out 3 of 4 shocks were showing signs of oil seepage. They investigated and are awaiting parts to complete the replacement of all 4 shocks and central valves. There has to be a reasonable warranty policy in place or they wouldn't be replacing mine. Maybe some Dealer's are more astute at interpreting the warranty policies??

Central Valves -
I've been told Audi is investigating what it will cost to develop a re-charge capability for the central valves. Seems like a centralized facility somewhere in the US could be cost-effective, especially at the rate we're hearing of RS6 failures and how early the RS4's are being effected.

Regards, Jimmy S.

[Aronis]

If perhaps at the time the central control valves were designed they could have included a threaded rod system to push the piston back to compress the AIR containing part of the valve....this is where the pressure is 'stored' in compress air chamber...that is what gets depressurized (as hydraulic fluid CANNOT be compressed).

Somehow I doubt that at manufacturing process they compress the Air Chamber by pushing hydraulic fluid into the fluid chamber to compress the air chamber...but who knows...

There are some excellent drawings of the inner workings of the central valves in the RS6 repair manual....

Mike

[s42ski]

Well my joy shall continue - got the car back from the shop after they replace one diagonal ( shocks and accumulator) The car felt funny right as I drove it off the lot, but it was not scary, just very different. Got home and did the old fashion shock test which is push on the corner of the car and try and get it rocking, let go, and see how long it takes to stop.

Previous to surgery you could barely get the car to move even if you put a lot of weight on it ( I weigh 200 lbs).

Well.... now two corners are as I described above and the other two are softer than my wifes Lexus:w: #$%@... I can get three rebounds after I let go of the corner of the car.....

Guess which two were replaced this week :vhmmm:

Back to the shop we go.....

[Aronis]

Oh too familiar....my car would reboung three or four times, and the "regional expert" said that was NORMAL....I tried to tell them it was at least as stiff as the S4 parted next to my car, but they would not listen.....

Mine has been ok, but not factory spec....

Best of luck getting it back to near normal...

Mike

[s42ski]

It will be interesting to see how they can argue that the new replaced half is supposed to be softer the the original with 40K miles.... That may be helpful

[Hy Octane]

Welcome to the DaRC side..

[s42ski]

The saga continues :cry: - so I called the dealer this morning and told them that the car was not right - they had me drive it over and as I was driving I heard the thumping noise out of the rear ( on the side that was replaced!) that has been discussed on these pages. Showed the service manager the car and demonstrated the "bounce" test and he agreed that the car was not right. More to come....

[Hy Octane]

So, Pacific still dosent know how to fix them. Good to know.. Now you see why I was so frustrated down there that time. Did that guy Paris do it?

[s42ski]

Well, car is back on the road and it seems to be OK :rs6kiss: - at least for the local drives it feels the same - now I need to take it for a good spin and see if it is truly all better.

Two shocks, two valves and labor - about $4500 at list prices, so say $2500 actual cost. You think Audi would want to make a bulk buy of PSS9's or something to fix this.

[Audiline]

Did they fit the Bilstein PSS-9 on your RS6? Would be very interested to hear how it works and if its even og better than DRC

Audiline

[s42ski]

Audiline - no they just fixed the DRC - so far so good - car feels about the same.

[SoCal]

Audiline - no they just fixed the DRC - so far so good - car feels about the same.

Glad to hear you finally got the problem fixed. It's surprising that they did only the diagonal the first time. Did they end up changing out all four shocks plus the central valve? Keep us posted on how it goes and GOOD LUCK! Enjoy your Beast.

:rs6kiss:

[s42ski]

Socal, they replaced one shock (!), the one that was leaking and then the central valve (twice) for that diagonal. The other diaganal they left alone since there was no leakage. I discussed replacing all four at length and got a firm but polite no. The regional rep came out, looked at the leakage and stated " I would not have replaced the leaking shock since the suspension was still firm". :nana:

When I was a mechanic long time ago you replace the shock when it leaked, you did wait for the car to start bouncing all over the highway.

In any case:rs6kiss: the car feels good so far.