RS6, Q5 and TT-S to be seen by dealers

[Leadfoot]

I was informed that the dealers are to be shown the RS6, Q5 and TT-S within the next few weeks.

The TT-S he believes has a 3.6L v6 with 300hp and the RS6 has a 5.2L V10TT, but then we already knew that. :D

[ültje1]

on the german Forum Motor-Talk.de they said that the S TT will have the 2.0 TFSI Enginge from the S3 with 280 PS....

But hey if you ask me my favorite still is the 3.6 V6 :dig:

[Leadfoot]

on the german Forum Motor-Talk.de they said that the S TT will have the 2.0 TFSI Enginge from the S3 with 280 PS....

But hey if you ask me my favorite still is the 3.6 V6 :dig:

Well the 3.6L might have been him trying to throw me off a little because he wouldn't comment on the RS6's power at all.

[ültje1]

by the way any release date of the S TT yet?

[Leadfoot]

by the way any release date of the S TT yet?

Not as yet, will hopefully know more when he gets back. It will depend if he gets to drive it, if so then it's the finished product and will most likely be launched at the Frankfurt show or possibly sooner.

[Ruergard]

Great info as always, thanks! :thumb:
Let's just hope that the figures we've seen are true when the cars hits the streets.

[ültje1]

oh men can´t wait :trash: :jlol: :incar:

[RXBG]

i just think that TT-S, RS6, and A4 are too much for frankfurt. the A4 and RS6 would be enough.

TTS maybe this summer sometime.

[rqiu]

i just think that TT-S, RS6, and A4 are too much for frankfurt. the A4 and RS6 would be enough.

If Audi could handle it, I wouldn't complain. :jlol:

[Tanner]

B8 A4 is also to be shown.

[RXBG]

i am currently thinking of making a quick 3 day trip to germany to see the show and visit the factory in september....... would be nice to kill three birds with one stone while i am there.

:R8:

[Tanner]

RXBG, not sure if you're with a dealer or not, but only dealer principles from what I have heard here will be able to see the new cars under a non-disclosure agreement.

[RXBG]

i meant at the auto show......

[Iceman]

Well the 3.6L might have been him trying to throw me off a little because he wouldn't comment on the RS6's power at all.
560 hp for the RS6 leady.

Hans.

[Iceman]

The TT-S he believes has a 3.6L v6 with 300hp... :D
I still put my money on a 330 hp 2.5 litre in-line 5 cylinder FSI turbo engine for the TTS.
And i will be very dissapointed if Audi put the S3 engine in the TTS.
The S3 engine is nice for a TT 2.0T FSI Quattro but not for the TTS.
I'm not sure the TT will be very sporty with the heavy 3.6 VR6 FSI under the bonnet, aspecialy dynamic and connering wise.

Hans.

[Iceman]

I was informed that the dealers are to be shown a 5 cylinder FSI Turbo TT(S/RS) next week.

Hans.

[RXBG]

I was informed that the dealers are to be shown a 5 cylinder FSI Turbo TT(S/RS) next week.

Hans.

it does sound reasonable to have an inline 5 turbo in the TT-S. good combo of torque and weight control. would not fit in with the traditional usa marketing ideas audi has traditionally had though, given the decrease in the number of cylinders. yet, since i believe the midlevel TT will eventually get the A5's new 3.2 VL at 265 hp, i think another 60 horses or so would justify a TT-S and give the cayman S a run for its money- as well as the Z4 M and maybe even Z and G37.....

[Iceman]

it does sound reasonable to have an inline 5 turbo in the TT-S. good combo of torque and weight control. would not fit in with the traditional usa marketing ideas audi has traditionally had though, given the decrease in the number of cylinders. yet, since i believe the midlevel TT will eventually get the A5's new 3.2 VL at 265 hp, i think another 60 horses or so would justify a TT-S and give the cayman S a run for its money- as well as the Z4 M and maybe even Z and G37.....
The 3.2 V6 out of the A5 will not fit in the TT it's a longitudinal V6 engine.
Audi can give the US TT different engines.

Hans.

[RXBG]

aaaah. thanks for the info. then it will have to remain the current V6 for now. and the inline 5 for the TT-S. perfect IMO. at 320 or so hp......... imagine the mod potential. my god.

with such an engine i'd say numbers similar to the S5's would be possible. and modded..... it'd catch an M3. so far this looks liek it will be the next B5 S4 style audi number. at least until the RS6 engine and the purported V6TT come out.

[mbolo]

Wow, wasn't aware the B8 A4 was already in the making (or at least ready for presentation). Wonder how this will affect the prices on current A4:s, and especially RS4s?
Anyone know when we can expect an B8 RS4?

[Auto]

Please someone tell me how the A4 B8 will look like!!!!

[artur777]

Auto - there are some pics of B8 A4 already at this forum.

[Auto]

Auto - there are some pics of B8 A4 already at this forum.

Where????!!!!!
I hope you don't mean the huckfeldt pics and so on?

[Mr Balsen]

I was informed that the dealers are to be shown a 5 cylinder FSI Turbo TT(S/RS) next week.

Hans.

My little finger heard exactly the same yesterday at Ingolstadt.....

Cheers,
Frederic

[Leadfoot]

I was informed that the dealers are to be shown a 5 cylinder FSI Turbo TT(S/RS) next week.

Hans.

Well at least I got the date right but not the engine. My dealer said he was expecting either the S3 engine or the 3.6L, could it have been possible that he didn't know or was he pulling my chain.

I would be a little annoyed if it was the latter.:vgrumpy:

[RXBG]

The 3.2 V6 out of the A5 will not fit in the TT it's a longitudinal V6 engine.
Audi can give the US TT different engines.

Hans.


ah. good point indeed. thanks for straightening me out. i'd def go for the turbo 5 over the 3.6L V6, unless they can make it as light as the 3.2. if it's the former, though, i can't imagine the mod potential. :MTM:

[Iceman]

There is not that much weight difference between the 3.2 and 3.6 VR6 engines.
But a inline 5 will weigh a lot less and just a little more then a inline R4 2.0T FSI.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

If you are correct that the TT/S will indeed be getting the 5cly TFSi engine then we will hopefully see the car reach it's true capabilities and finally be a worth while competitor to the Cayman S or Z4M Coupe.

[Mr Balsen]

If you are correct that the TT/S will indeed be getting the 5cly TFSi engine

The 5 cylinders engine, the TTS will have...

Frederic

[Leadfoot]

The 5 cylinders engine, the TTS will have...

Frederic

Well quite a while ago I was told that the TT/S would have over 300+hp and have already lapped the ring with MagneticRide in 8:14 which is a lot quicker than either of the two current TTs.

Now if a test mule of several months ago can lap the ring in that time what can one more developed not do. :hahahehe:

[Ruergard]

The 5 cylinders engine, the TTS will have...

Frederic

I just hope you are right.. that would be awesome!! :ttaddict:

[SigmaS6]

According to a german forum the dealers can already pre-order showroom cars for the TTS for next year which means they also got the specs. And according to those documents it'll have the 2l TFSI engine from the S3 but with 270PS instead of 265PS in the S3. Surprising, but not really in a positive way I'd say.

Or did anyone here guess/knew it right? ;)

[Iceman]

It's the worse case senario to give the TTS a 2.0T engine instead of the 3.6 VR6 or 2.5T R5.
But Audi will have there reasons for doing that.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

According to a german forum the dealers can already pre-order showroom cars for the TTS for next year which means they also got the specs. And according to those documents it'll have the 2l TFSI engine from the S3 but with 270PS instead of 265PS in the S3. Surprising, but not really in a positive way I'd say.

Or did anyone here guess/knew it right? ;)

I was told a long time ago it was 2.0TFSi but the power output was much higher, but as this was a test mule and not the finished example I thought when other said it would be 2.5TFSi I reckon Audi were testing many options and decided on one of the other options.

Based on the difference in power between the test mule and the real thing I reckon the new lap time on the ring for the TT/S will be 8:20~25s.

I must say I am a little disappointed that they settled on 270hp, if that is the case because the chassis can cope with so much more and the car's handling has so much more to give.

To looks are right as is the interior, now all they have to do is to give it the performance it's crying out for.

[Iceman]

I must say I am a little disappointed that they settled on 270hp, if that is the case.....
202 Kw/275 hp by 6500 rpm/min, 340 Nm by 2500 rpm/min, S-Tronic Quattro, R8 brakes.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

202 Kw/275 hp by 6500 rpm/min, 340 Nm by 2500 rpm/min, S-tronic Quattro, R8 brakes.

Hans.

Still a disappointed don't you think, OK it will get to 60mph in 5s and 100mph in 12.5s but the car is capable of so much more. By the way, what is the word on weight and weight balance for the TT/S?

Is this the first signs of Porsche's control stopping the TT from stealing sales from the basic Cayman?

[Iceman]

By the way, what is the word on weight and weight balance for the TT/S?
No word on weight, but the FWD 2.0TFSI S-Tronic weigh 1280 Kg.
If you put a axle and Haldex unit to it, lets say 40 kg more.
The Question is will the TTS have rear seats yes or no and RS Recaro's
If it have no rear seats and have RS Recaro's it can weigh almost the same as a FWD 2.0TFSI.
But yes, still a big disapointment, i don't like 2.0TFSI engines.
Nothing beats the in-line R5 2.5TFSI engine, but i don't know wat happen with that.

Hans.

[Toto89]

Ohh, it's a bit disappointing...can we say that these are 100% sure? Or we have some hope?

[Iceman]

Ohh, it's a bit disappointing...can we say that these are 100% sure? Or we have some hope?
Nothing is 100% sure till Audi say so.

Hans.

[SigmaS6]

But as this was taken from the Audi-material sent to the dealers I'd say Audi has already said so.

And concerning the weight advantage: that's a good thing for e.g. a nice 0-60 time but if you then check the 80-120 time power is the determining factor, not weight. But if you mainly drive in the city instead of the highways... :)

I think the Porsche-idea is not so far away from the truth, because they are about to control VAG much more in the near future and if your designated boss tells you to make sure you don't reach the Cayman S you probably don't think twice if you do that or not.

Porsche can now relax till the RS comes out, unless it gets canceled for mysterious reasons.

[Toto89]

I think the Porsche-idea is not so far away from the truth, because they are about to control VAG much more in the near future and if your designated boss tells you to make sure you don't reach the Cayman S you probably don't think twice if you do that or not.

Porsche can now relax till the RS comes out, unless it gets canceled for mysterious reasons.

Clear, that's why separateness would be better.

[Iceman]

Porsche can now relax till the RS comes out, unless it gets canceled for mysterious reasons.
Porsche is developing FSI for the Cayman Boxer engines.
The Cayman get 265 hp and the Cayman S 315 hp with it.
In that case Audi can bring a TT CS/RS with a 300+ hp inline five cylinder 2.5TFSI engine. :ttaddict:


Hans.

[Leadfoot]

The only silver lining to the fact that the TT/S is getting a 275hp 2.0TFSi is that with a simple chip upgrade 315hp is there for the taking and all for £500.

I will watch with interest to see what the car mags make of this car as they loved the fwd 2.0TFSi TT better than the v6 Quattro. Hopefully the combination of the lighter engine with Quattro will be a winning package and driver's car we hoped it would be from the beginning.

[SigmaS6]

The only silver lining to the fact that the TT/S is getting a 275hp 2.0TFSi is that with a simple chip upgrade 315hp is there for the taking and all for £500.
They obviously also had the price in mind when they went for the 2.0l engine. I'm just not sure if the price should be the all-determining factor for S-models. Imo delivering enough power to be at the eye level of a 350Z would have been more appreciated by most S-lovers.

[Leadfoot]

They obviously also had the price in mind when they went for the 2.0l engine. I'm just not sure if the price should be the all-determining factor for S-models. Imo delivering enough power to be at the eye level of a 350Z would have been more appreciated by most S-lovers.

Compared to the output of the 350Z, yes the new TT/S is down on power but in it's favour it's only 21hp and it will have a weight advantage of around 260Kgs+ which will mean with the addition of S-Tronic that the TT/S will be in another league performance wise. Basing the performance of the S3 which weighs in at roughly 1455Kgs on a slightly more powerful TT/S and weighing about 180Kgs less plus factor in the quicker transmission and I reckon it will post times in the mid to low 12s for the 100mph sprint. Now that's a full 2.5s quicker than the 350z and surely worth the extra 5~6K that Audi will be asking.

I agree that like most here 300hp was the figure we all expected to see, but over the weekend I have started to think that 275hp isn't really that bad, especially when you consider there's a 2.0TFSi in place of the heavier v6. For one it's going to be easier on fuel when not pushing on and combined with the Haldex diff at the rear the weight balance is going to be greatly improved, making the TT/S handle and drive like a true sportscar instead of the more understeery 3.2TT.

[SigmaS6]

Compared to the output of the 350Z, yes the new TT/S is down on power but in it's favour it's only 21hp
The 350Z is listed with 313 hp for this model year.



and it will have a weight advantage of around 260Kgs+
I'm not sure where you all got the weight from, I've only see estimations so far and some threads where people showed why these numbers can't be true. Yes, it will be lighter than the 3.2, but I don't see much improvement here, at least not enough to reduce the power.

Don't get me wrong, of course it will outhandle the 350Z, but it already does that with the 3.2l engine ;)



I agree that like most here 300hp was the figure we all expected to see, but over the weekend I have started to think that 275hp isn't really that bad, especially when you consider there's a 2.0TFSi in place of the heavier v6.
The weight difference between S3 and A3 3.2 is exactly 40kg. That's a 2.7% advantage over the 3.2.



For one it's going to be easier on fuel when not pushing on
Once again the 'cheaper' argument: is it really that important how much fuel it uses if you buy an S or RS?


making the TT/S handle and drive like a true sportscar
Let's wait till it's out, but at this time I'm far less euphoric about Audis decision. Maybe they surprise us with an early RS to make up for the S ;)

[Iceman]

I still think Audi have made a wrong decision engine wise.
How bigger the power output (Bigger turbo) of the 2.0T FSI how bigger the lag.
Futher a 2.0T FSI will not hack it sound wise.
A TT 2.0T FSI Quattro will weigh something like 1375 Kg IMHO.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Sorry I didn't workout the difference between the S3 and TT/S correctly. The TT/S should weigh roughly 50Kgs more than the basic TT2.0TFSi S-Tronic model which would make the TT/S 1330Kgs, a still healthy 125kgs advantage over the S3. I know this is an estimate but based on experience this shouldn't be too far from the mark. The S3 will do 0-100mph in 13.6s, S-Tronic will on it's own improve this by 0.5s minimum and I reckon the 125Kgs less weight should improve this again by 0.5~0.7s showing a estimated time of 12.4s or less.

You are right that there is only 40Kgs difference between the S3 and A3 3.2 but as all of this is from the engine that would be the equivalent to an extra 40Kgs being placed on the rear axle compared to 3.2TT. This will make an amazing difference to the way the two cars drive and that without factoring in the improved suspension set-up the S model would have over the 3.2TT.

The new 350Z have 311hp and weighs 1590Kgs, which give it a power to weight of 195hp/ton, the estimated PTW of the TT/S based on the above figures is 206hp/ton. Like I said, when you combine this with the quicker gear shift from the S-Tronic and you will have a car that is in a different league performance wise. Now include the better grip provided by the Quattro system and the two car can't really be compared in the same sentence in my opinion.

[SigmaS6]

That might be true for a track day or at lower speeds, but on a highway it will be disappointing to let a 350Z pass by as it just has more power which is what matters for the top speed. So you'll be quickly in front of him but give him a few kilometers and you're behind him.

I had hoped to see an S where this situation couldn't happen, i.e. with a similar output. And with ~40hp more the track times would once again profit, too ;)

[Leadfoot]

That might be true for a track day or at lower speeds, but on a highway it will be disappointing to let a 350Z pass by as it just has more power which is what matters for the top speed. So you'll be quickly in front of him but give him a few kilometers and you're behind him.

I had hoped to see an S where this situation couldn't happen, i.e. with a similar output. And with ~40hp more the track times would once again profit, too ;)

Well are we not all in agreement that a simple chip upgrade will fix this problem.:thumb:

[SigmaS6]

Somehow i knew this point would come up ;)

But with the chipping goes the warranty and if I don't care about the warranty I can also start to think about a supercharger or even a turbo for the 3.2l, which then outperforms the chipped TTS by power and sound :)

Also I'm not sure what the impact of a 330hp mod for a 2l engine is that has a very noticable turbo lag already with 265hp. As Hans said, it's not getting better by increasing the power.

[Leadfoot]

Also I'm not sure what the impact of a 330hp mod for a 2l engine is that has a very noticable turbo lag already with 265hp. As Hans said, it's not getting better by increasing the power.

Well the same thing will be experienced with a 2.5TFSi engine to some degree, which is and always will be the case with turbo engines, but I have driven the new S3 and didn't find a noticable difference in lag between it and a standard Golf GTi. OK there is some but not it a way which will that really noticed and espically not when you are going hell for leather.

You see it a no win situation, you want the power and instant throttle performance of a big N/A engine but with that is the heavy nose and dull handling or you choose the small/lighter turbo unit with much better handling but get a little lag.:brag:

You sound to me like a 'glass half empty' kind of a guy. I take it by you handle you drive a S6 which must mean you won't like the RS6 with it's turbos either.;)

[SigmaS6]

Well the same thing will be experienced with a 2.5TFSi engine to some degree, which is and always will be the case with turbo engines
Sure, but the question is how much base performance do you have and how much does the turbo add. A 270hp TTS will probably get like what, half of it's power from the turbo? So chipping it to 330hp will increase the difference and the lag wont get smaller by that...

This also explains why I have no problems at all with turbo engines :), but you need to keep a good balance between the performance the engine delivers and the addon the turbo gives.


You see it a no win situation, you want the power and instant throttle performance of a big N/A engine but with that is the heavy nose and dull handling
How much more weight would a 2.5l I5 have? Imo not enough to call it heavy or dull.

And if the 2l engine is powerful enough for >300hp why is Audi not even putting in the 300hp version from the clubsport?

Anyway, I still think the TTS will be much less than it could have been if Audi just would have wanted.

[Leadfoot]

Sure, but the question is how much base performance do you have and how much does the turbo add. A 270hp TTS will probably get like what, half of it's power from the turbo? So chipping it to 330hp will increase the difference and the lag wont get smaller by that....

Sorry, I though we were comparing the 2.0TFSi TT/S against the 350Z, if so then chipping to 330hp would be over-kill, something like 300hp would be plenty and with the extra torque provided by this the TT would still be ahead of a Z350 even on the Autobahn.:bye:



How much more weight would a 2.5l I5 have? Imo not enough to call it heavy or dull.

And if the 2l engine is powerful enough for >300hp why is Audi not even putting in the 300hp version from the clubsport?

Anyway, I still think the TTS will be much less than it could have been if Audi just would have wanted.

Now as you seem to be now talking about the 2.5TFSi engine, I agree I like everyone here would have preferred it over the 2.0L if only for the noise alone, but like you say the performance would be more rounded with no more lag than the 275hp 2.0TFSi but obviously more power. I reckon the weight of the engine would be somewhere in between the 2.0TFSi and the 3.2v6.

I reckon Audi choose this output for the same reasons they choose 580hp for the RS6 instead of something like 630hp, it's a better balance performance being more drive-able while slightly down in performance.

As I live in a country with speed limits out right top speed is less important to me than overall handling and cornering speed and I am still happier with a 2.0TFSi with 275hp than a nose heavier 3.6FSi with 300hp.
Given these options which would you be happier with?:vhmmm:

[SigmaS6]

with the extra torque provided by this the TT would still be ahead of a Z350 even on the Autobahn.:bye:
Maybe we'll see some test results with e.g. 120-200 times to settle this once it's out, but at this time I still think the 350Z would win this by plain old displacement power over tweaked downsizing technology.


I reckon Audi choose this output for the same reasons they choose 580hp for the RS6 instead of something like 630hp, it's a better balance performance being more drive-able while slightly down in performance.
True, 270hp are better suited for that engine, but not for that car. Maybe that point of view makes the difference between accepting the choice and disliking it.


Given these options which would you be happier with?:vhmmm:
As i'm on the track only a few weekends per year but on the Autobahn every workday I'd go for power over corner handling, but to each his own.

[Leadfoot]

Autocar roadtest S3

0-30mph 2.1 sec
0-60mph 5.8 sec
0-100mph 13.6 sec
30-50mph in 3rd/4th 2.7 / 4.1
40-60mph in 4th/5th 3.6 / 5.3 sec
50-70mph in 5th 4.8 sec

Now I see that the 350Z with 309hp weighs not 1550Kgs but 1644Kgs what means the Nissan would not have a PTW of 194hp/ton but a now 186hp/ton, that's a full 20hp/ton less than the TT/S. I don't believe that with even 34hp advantage would be enough the best the TT/S, but like you said until the times are posted by a handful of magazine for both car we can but only guess.

I appreciate your reasoning and now understand why you would be happier with top speed over handling, like you said 'each to their own'.:cheers: