6.0 litre W12 engine future. ?

[Iceman]

Have the 6.0 W12 engine any future within VAG. ?
There are no recent new cars that have that engine.
And it's only in use with the A8 W12, VW Paeton W12 and as a Bi-turbo in the Bentley's Continental GT/GTC and Flying Spur.

I think the W12 have only a future if VW will develop a new 7.2 litre W12 FSi with ± 560 hp based on two 280 hp 3.6 VR6 FSI engines.

Hans.

[PeterJohn]

I don't think it has a future.

I was made at a time that Piëch was being "creative". The Veyron, the Passat W8, the Nardo Supercar that was production ready but had to subside for Lamborghini, the aluminium A2, Lupo and an A2 3L,...

The new architecture doesn't need engines that compact. We know the A8 and A6 can accomodate V10s, and the Q7 can take a V12TDI (even though it has next to no overhang).

The VR design has it drawbacks. The intakes and exhaust overlap, and the heat exchange between them harms the effeciency. They are also limited in the piston dimentions, b/c they cross each others path.

It's a great piece of mechanical poetry, but even in the transverse VR6 version you have to wonder what it has on a 2.0T. In a competitive market, effecieny is more important than mechanical oddities that only enthusiasts can appreciate. The VR6 and W12 are needlessly complicated, and offer no real benefit over the proven traditional solutions.

There haven't been any new developments of the W12. The S8/S6 opted for a new V10. The W8 is dead as the dodo. The VR6 is still around, but the S3 uses a 2.0T, and the TT 2.0T is considered a better car than the VR6 version.

The Passat VR6 was made for the American market I think, where they like big numbers like "6" and "3.6". The VR design is still a great way to fit a big engine in a small space. But when a small engine can offer the same performance, or the engine bay can fit a large traditional engine, you can't make a case for the VR/W engines.

[Lateknight]

I think the W12 have only a future if VW will develop a new 7.2 litre W12 FSi with ± 560 hp based on two 280 hp 3.6 VR6 FSI engines.

Hans.
Hmmmm.... I like the sound of that:D (might as well round it up to 600hp while were at it).
One last hurrah for big capacity engines :)
The new Audi RS8 ..... now, that could be one of two possible cars :harass:

They would have to do something with the soundtrack though.
The current 6.0 doesn't make enough of the right noises. :revs:

Alas, the W's are dead in the water in my opinion. They will be killed off for smaller more efficient engines. (if you call a 5.2 V10 small and efficient :doh: )

I think the Vr6s will be around for a while yet, despite their drawbacks. Not everybody is just after outright performance.
There are those out there that want their cars to sound good aswell.

I will never go back to a 4 banger, no matter what.

[Toto89]

I hope it will have a nice future, it's a great engine, I think it will be tuned at ~520hp with VL or FSI but IMO only for next generation A8.
The 7.2L is also a good way but it could be 'too big', I see the future of the A8(D4) like this: 6.0 W12 (500hp+) as the 12 cylinder, and the S8 could get the 5.2 Biturbo (maybe detuned RS6 engine). A W12 biturbo concept also could be interesting in some cases...

[Leadfoot]

They would have to do something with the soundtrack though.
The current 6.0 doesn't make enough of the right noises. :revs:

It funny when you consider that the W12 is basically two VR6 engine put together, because the R32 and the TT3.2 are two of the best sounding 6 cylinder engines around at the minute. One would have thought the same would be true of the W12 but as I have never heard one I must bow to your better judgement.

Could the sound it makes be down to the type of cars currently using it, all luxury so the engineers had to keep the sound to the minimum, maybe in the right car the sound it already there fighting to be heard.

[Pit]

I'm driving a a8 w12. I love this car after an s8, rs6 and m5, the "overall"-power, the silent, powerfull acceleration over 270kmh and the high drive culture also over 300kmh are unique. Can only hope some times a new w12 will get the Bentley Continental engine - it's based on the n/a w12 and could deliver 700bhp+. A dream!

Pit.

[Leadfoot]

Tell me is there room in the R8's engine bay for a W12 or is it to bigger because I remember back to the supercar that VW made which broken a lot of speed records a few years ago and thought something like it would make a nice option instead of the V10 Audi are about to fit. After all the V10 is basically a Gallardo engine.

[Toto89]

I think the W12 engine is a great concept and it could have many opportunities. But I'm also afraid of it will be replaced with V10s or so. They are also very good engines but you can not replace an engine with a 2 cylinder smaller one (and of course minus ~1000ccm).
7.2L is interesting but for me sounds too futuristic. Maybe Audi will follow the x.2 line, i mean: 3.2; 4.2; 5.2 and maybe a 6.2 will arrive with 500hp. Otherwise the W12 format is way better than V12 in my opinion. And if you think current one will replaced with some V10s or so, what will the next (D4) A8's strongest version get?

As i said before, the logical way for next generation would be a V10 TT S8 with ~550hp, a 6.2 W12 500hp and maybe a W12 TT/supercharged verison delivering 600hp. Of course only in D4. Do you think it can be reality or am i dreaming?:blush:

[AndyBG]

W12 is fantastic concept, I hope that VAG want leave it behind...

[Der Major]

I think the W12 engine is a great concept and it could have many opportunities. But I'm also afraid of it will be replaced with V10s or so. They are also very good engines but you can not replace an engine with a 2 cylinder smaller one (and of course minus ~1000ccm).
7.2L is interesting but for me sounds too futuristic. Maybe Audi will follow the x.2 line, i mean: 3.2; 4.2; 5.2 and maybe a 6.2 will arrive with 500hp. Otherwise the W12 format is way better than V12 in my opinion. And if you think current one will replaced with some V10s or so, what will the next (D4) A8's strongest version get?

As i said before, the logical way for next generation would be a V10 TT S8 with ~550hp, a 6.2 W12 500hp and maybe a W12 TT/supercharged verison delivering 600hp. Of course only in D4. Do you think it can be reality or am i dreaming?:blush:

Dreaming all the way. Who in the hell needs 7.2 L engines anyway or TT W12? :doh:

Do you guys listen to yourselfes from time to time? :lovl: No matter how big our powerful an engine will be it will NEVER be enough for you. :doh:

[absent]

Dreaming all the way. Who in the hell needs 7.2 L engines anyway or TT W12? :doh:

Do you guys listen to yourselfes from time to time? :lovl: No matter how big our powerful an engine will be it will NEVER be enough for you. :doh:

You are right,our hunger for more power is insatiable.
I believe,if we ever get a 1000 hp sedan in standard guise,we would still ask for more....:cheers: :cheers:

[AndyBG]

...,we would still ask for more....:cheers: :cheers:

Isn't that in our nature... ?

[Toto89]

Dreaming all the way. Who in the hell needs 7.2 L engines anyway or TT W12? :doh:

Do you guys listen to yourselfes from time to time? :lovl: No matter how big our powerful an engine will be it will NEVER be enough for you. :doh:

I understand your point friend, but if you look at Audi's competitors, they do the same, so if Audi won't follow them, it could easily be an inferior to them...

[Der Major]

I understand your point friend, but if you look at Audi's competitors, they do the same, so if Audi won't follow them, it could easily be an inferior to them...

Sure you are right but if this insanity continues who will be able to afford this kind of cars? Not talking about the price or gas but the other kind of stuff (Insurance, Tax etc). Not to mentions that gas gets more expensive every day. Here in germany 1 liter cost about 1.40 €:vgrumpy:

That´s why everyone switches to diesel here. Favorite is 2.0 TDI.

[AndyBG]

Yes but Exonn mobile was most profitable company in fiscal 2006, think about that...

Owners of Exon and similar people don't even think about gas price, they just want that 1000 hps car !

[absent]

Sure you are right but if this insanity continues who will be able to afford this kind of cars? Not talking about the price or gas but the other kind of stuff (Insurance, Tax etc). Not to mentions that gas gets more expensive every day. Here in germany 1 liter cost about 1.40 €:vgrumpy:

That´s why everyone switches to diesel here. Favorite is 2.0 TDI.

The real cost of unleaded gasoline in Germany is just 0.52 Euro per liter.
You guys in Europe are just stuck with these crazy taxes added by your "generous" politicians....
:noshake:

[Leadfoot]

The real cost of unleaded gasoline in Germany is just 0.52 Euro per liter.
You guys in Europe are just stuck with these crazy taxes added by your "generous" politicians....
:noshake:

Yeah, but some of us do have a free health service.:hihi:

[absent]

Yeah, but some of us do have a free health service.:hihi:

There is nothing there that is free ,ever...
I'd rather pay my health insurance premiums and have the care I want ,not the one provided to me by the government.
Before US,lived in Austria,Italy and Germany so have a good comparison now.
Sorry for hijacking the thread....

[Pit]

crazy taxes added by your "generous" politicians....
YES YES YES :hihi: And all those crazy taxes keeps every Polo's, Corollas, Pandas away from our WAY OF LIFE : The Autobahn :applause:

So, let the politicians go on :dig:

Pit.

[Toto89]

Here is a webpage which explains the build up of VW's VR and W engines. Strange to hear that Audi had a traditional W concept before VW but it had 3 cylinder banks and wasn't so capable of living.
http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/tech_engine_packaging.htm