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Leadfoot
April 24th, 2007, 09:08
This the the review by CAR magazine of the S5, nothing like the others.


Because Audi knew BMW was going to launch its M3 this spring and wanted to spoil the Munich firm's thunder. So it decided to launch both the A5 and its hot 354bhp S5 spin-off at the same time. The £39,725 S5 isn't so much a rival for the 414bhp M3 though, as a rival for the £35,670 twin-turbo 335i. But there are bound to be a few potential buyers prepared to pay a few thousand extra for the M3. And a few more prepared to pay even more, probably more than £50k for the Audi RS5 when that turns up in 2009.

It's a 3-series coupe rival with a new-to-Audi swoopy design language. But it's also so much more because underneath those coke-bottle hips is Audi's new MLB chassis. MLB stands for modular longitudinal chassis and it's the architecture that will underpin the Q5 off-roader and A7 coupe as well as the replacements for the A4, A6 and A8.

Audi has stuck to its longitudinal engine layout, the same layout that has been criticised for making Audis feel nose heavy. But one of the key differences is that the front diff is now mounted ahead of the clutch. Another is the longer wheelbase. Together they reduce the front overhang and improve weight distribution to an ideal 50:50 split. Other changes include a steering column mounted lower in the chassis for better steering feel.

Yes. Compared with rivals' racks (and with the honourable exception of the RS4), Audi steering feel has been foggier than a spring dawn. But with the S5, the inertia has gone; things happen just off the straight ahead position, and turn-in is a little prompter and a lot more communicative. And there is absolutely no kicking and tugging no matter how cratered the road and how crazy the pace. Unwinding lock is no longer a kick and rush affair, the helm does not stiffen up momentarily during quick lane changes, and precision has improved hugely.

And it's one quick car. The S5 runs the latest version of the familiar 4.2-litre V8, equipped with FSI direct injection. This boosts peak power to 354bhp at 7000rpm, with maximum torque of 325lb ft kicking in at 3500rpm. Sixty takes just 5.1sec, although the push in the back feels more refined than frenetic.

For now, power is sent to all four wheels by a manual six-speeder. A six-speed auto arrives early next year, a seven-speed S-tronic dual-clutch box won't come to market before 2010. But the manual transmission provides a decent start. First is short enough even for the most extreme hairpins, second slurps up the short connecting stretches, third unleashes the car vigorously onto more open terrain, and fourth is just perfect for blasts on high visibility straights.

The S5 cockpit is Audi at its finest, so you get top quality, top materials and top ergonomics in one attractively styled package. MMI (Audi's take on iDrive) is still the pace-setter in terms of secondary controls, but the centre console is getting more and more crowded, and we certainly don't need any more chrome bezels and bling bits either.

Turning to the rear, those upright and oddly-shaped back seats may look uncomfortable, but they're actually okay for the broad-shouldered, even if headroom isn't generous. Accessing them isn't easy though. If you travel three or four up most of the time, it's best to wait another year for the new S4 saloon. With 455 litres of lugagge space - and that's before any folding manouevre - the new coupe's boot almost matches the outgoing saloon's for space.

Much like BMW's 3-series coupe, the A5 comes in various flavours from very mild upwards. Bottom of the ladder is the £30,175 2.7TDi. It's front-wheel drive, like all A5s for now, comes only with Audi's Multitronic CVT gearbox, takes 7.6sec to reach 62mph and delivers 42.1mpg. The bigger 3.0TDi costs £33,410 and cracks 62mph in just 5.9sec but gives away 3mpg. And for petrol fans, there's the 3.2FSi - £33,205, CVT-only, 33mpg and 6.1sec.

Verdict

Would I buy an S5? Yes. It's a pretty car and a convincing grand tourer. The new suspension hugely improves ride quality, the steering feels alive, and four-wheel drive gives the Audi a real-world edge over its rear-drive rivals.
The transformation of Audi ride and handling shows that the MLB approach is a confident step in the right direction. With this flexible chassis as a foundation, it's no surprise Audi talks of dominating the premium world.

Georg Kacher


As I have already said AUTOCAR are a little bit anti-Audi.

M3 owner
April 24th, 2007, 11:19
Most of the reviews I have read have been brutal ! I posted a link 2 one article earlier 2day but avoided posting links 2 so many others because I didn't want 2 start a war. The S5 v 335i articles have been particularly nasty.
I can't wait 2 sample 1 myself.

Leadfoot
April 24th, 2007, 12:36
M3 owner,

After sampling the 335i I can honestly say that it is BMW's best 3 series ever, that engine is a peach and one of the reason I am hoping Audi return to turbo power for their performance models in the future. The only reason apart from the lack of awd that I wouldn't have one is the interior looks, something you either love or hate and I unfortunately hate it.

I have seen all most all Audi first drive reviews that when sampled in such a short time normally ends in a bad opinion of the cars, but when sampled over a full and longer review especially on the roads that are familiar the S models seem to perform a lot better and in recent tests like the TT, S3, S8 and RS4 the reviews have been amazing. Normally in the UK Audi are knocked back for their poor steering feel and hard ride, but both of these I find to be no worse than that of an M3.

I believe the S5 will be a revelation for Audi and will when a full comparison test is done against it's rivals will do really well, whether it beats the 335i is debatable given the fact that the price is almost £4K dearer and this will cloud any opinions but in the main areas like quality, design, luxury, driveability and cross-country speed the S5 will beat all comers.

QuattroFun
April 24th, 2007, 17:45
Thx for review - at last, something more positive. Georg Kacher usually is on top of things, but the 50-50% weight split must be a typo. Wont happen - and strictly speaking does need to happen as along as there is material progress...

Audiphile
April 25th, 2007, 06:01
Sorry if I am a bit harsh, but I do not get why you find it necessary to post on an all Audi site with the Moniker M3 Owner and then try to point out in a back door kind of way that the S5 is somehow inferior. I know you do not want to start a war, but such back door comments are patronizing at best. The A5 and S5 will prove to be damn good as Leadfoot points out and as do other reviews. Please check the the review from the German car magazine Autobild on-line (link through Fourtitude.com) that just conducted its first drive of the A5. The final sentence of Autobild's review is quite telling. It simply states "BMW can pack up." in reference to the A5's driving dynamics. Of course add Audi's vaunted build quality, higher reliability, and interior execution and the A5 is a complete package.

M3 owner
April 25th, 2007, 09:05
Hey leadfoot

Don’t misunderstand me mate,I’m not saying that the S5 is inferior 2 the 335.
The review u posted painted a far more positive picture of the S5 then the reviews I have been reading & I find it refreshing. The reviews that I have read have been very critical of the S5,esp when compared 2 the 335.I haven’t posted any of these negative articles because I don’t want 2 b responsible 4 another pointless audi v bmw debate.

Audis are maligned in Aus as well,the RS4 is the 1st time an Audi has been praised in Aus car mags.Different strokes 4 different folks,100 journalists could hate the S5 & I could love it.

Audiphile,run a search on my name & c how many Audi videos & links I have provided 4 u guys in the short time I have been here then cast stones.None of my videos have been reposts either.
I have NEVER trashed talked an Audi since I have been here,I have had nothing but praise 4 these weapons & have always been very respectful 2 this place & it's members.Can u say the same ?

Leadfoot
April 25th, 2007, 09:32
Hey leadfoot

Don’t misunderstand me mate,I’m not saying that the S5 is inferior 2 the 335.
The review u posted painted a far more positive picture of the S5 then the reviews I have been reading & I find it refreshing. The reviews that I have read have been very critical of the S5,esp when compared 2 the 335.I haven’t posted any of these negative articles because I don’t want 2 b responsible 4 another pointless audi v bmw debate.

Audis are maligned in Aus as well,the RS4 is the 1st time an Audi has been praised in Aus car mags.Different strokes 4 different folks,100 journalists could hate the S5 & I could love it.

Audiphile,run a search on my name & c how many RS4 videos & links I have provided 4 u guys in the short time I have been here then cast stones.None of my videos have been reposts either.
I have NEVER trashed talked an Audi since I have been here,I have had nothing but praise 4 these weapons & have always been very respectful 2 this place & it's members.Can u say the same ?

M3 owner,

I am agreeing with you on the 335i, it's an amazingly good car, I was high-lighting my reasons as to why I wouldn't buy one even if it was indeed a better car to the S5. I am looking forward to see what EVO make of the S5 when they get to drive the car back here in the UK, if it gets the same praise as CAR bestowed on it then I reckon the car is very good indeed, if it beats the 335i as a driver's car that's debatable but if it gets close that's good enough for me and in this I believe it will be the case.

As for Australia only finding the RS4 the only Audi worth praising doesn't surprise me. Most motoring journalists want to be entertained and awd cars in general don't entertain as well as rwd cars because of the efficiency of the drive system with regards to traction, awd is designed to four wheel drift instead of powersliding and this isn't as entertaining or requires the same driver input, so your country's reviews are similar to many others.

I haven't found any of your post disrespectful and if all comments on this site were only praise then it would be a very unrealistic and boring to say the least.

QuattroFun
April 25th, 2007, 18:25
Well, journalists are journalists everywhere - but based on the stack of reviews so far it seems that the S5's chassis set-up is deliberately "typical non-RS/R Audi". I myself am far more interested in what the new platform is capable of when it is tuned to be more sporty - i.e. what Quattro Gmbh can squeeze out of it. I must say that I look forward to the new RS5 and RS4 quite a lot...

Leadfoot
April 26th, 2007, 10:23
First group test in AUTOCAR. S5 vs 335i and a very predictable result.

Cut of long story short, the 335i was the better entertainer but was left for dead on the twisties by the S5's extra traction. The S5 ultimately understeered and the steering was numb and too light but it's interior quality was much better and it's the more driver's focus interior.

But as I said earlier, £6K is to big of a difference between the two models for the S5 to stand a chance and that was ultimately the view of AUTOCAR which in a way I agree with.

This leaves me with a question : How will the M3 compete against the 335i ?, fair based on the fact it will be an extra £16K more expensive.

Leadfoot
April 26th, 2007, 14:28
What do you reckon the S5 will post on both the ring and on tight circuits like Hockenheim.

Here's some food for thought.


Autocar. Grouptest S5 vs 335i

Yet on the tight, Alpine passes north of Verona, the S5 comprehensively blitzes the 335i on A-B pace.

We've talking of a difference that would equate to several seconds a stage mile here.

Now with talk like that the Audi S5 might post very low times on the ring, even lower than I thought possible (8:13) and given the tightness of Hockenheim, it might even better the time of the RS4.

Look passed things like steering feel, which I reckon will be fixed with the RS5 as will ride quality (Magneticride) and the RS5 might be to ultimate everyday coupe ever, bar none.

QuattroFun
April 28th, 2007, 16:24
Hmm, the new AMS has - apart from the glowing R8 test (real praise I say) - also a first drive of the S5.

The new platform has reportedly the following weight distribution: A5 3.2 55%:45% and S5 58%:42%. As the B7 S4 is 60%:40%, it seems that the new platform balances the front and rear only moderately. Could be the reason - among others - for why the press generally have been a bit disappointed on the whole. However, AMS thought that the S5 was pretty good on the twisties so there is hope...

Leadfoot
April 28th, 2007, 16:39
I have a real problem with their weight balance figures, 55%/45% for a A5 3.2 which is fwd and has less alloy in it's front end construction while the S5 is awd (extra diff at the rear). Check out the weight of the two engines and you will see that the difference isn't that huge and when you factor in the rear diff, the S5 will give a better weight balance so someone has got their figures wrong.

Another thing, AUTOCAR rated the S5 as better than the 335i when it came to changing direct, now does that sound like a car that is still very much so front end heavy.

I haven't a problem with them preferring rwd when it comes to entertainment as this comes down to personal taste, but I do object to misquoting facts and AMS should be picked up on this.

QuattroFun
April 28th, 2007, 17:42
Well, I am just the messenger, buddy. AMS's take is no better or no worse than the Car's typo of 50%:50% for S5, which surely will prove to be wrong. At this stage, I have no idea what the truth is - just reporting like you but hoping for the best. That said, A5 also has front wings of aluminium, Quattro does not improve weight balance and factor in suspension and brakes as well when judging weight distribution.

Leadfoot
April 29th, 2007, 12:14
Well, I am just the messenger, buddy. AMS's take is no better or no worse than the Car's typo of 50%:50% for S5, which surely will prove to be wrong. At this stage, I have no idea what the truth is - just reporting like you but hoping for the best. That said, A5 also has front wings of aluminium, Quattro does not improve weight balance and factor in suspension and brakes as well when judging weight distribution.

Sorry if my statement sounds like it was directed at you because it wasn't. I know CAR's 50%/50% for the S5 was also wrong, but I disagree that the rear diff of the Quattro system doesn't improve the balance, there is more weight in the axle itself because of the fact it's taking power through it, so between the diff, the thicker axle and bigger mounting supports for the axle I do believe that the S5 will have improved weight balance over the standard A5 in fwd form. But I don't believe it could ever approach the figures quoted by CAR.

chiphead
April 29th, 2007, 15:14
Dynamic modifications for the S5 include stiffened suspension, uprated brakes and 19-inch wheels. Under the bonnet, Audi's 4.2-litre FSI V8 provides 349bhp and 440Nm of torque. The engine is hooked up to a quattro four-wheel-drive system which splits power 40:60 front to rear.

And the car's performance is searing. The 0-60mph sprint takes around five seconds, while top speed is limited to 155mph. In-gear flexibility is the S5's most impressive feature, though, with lots of punch all the way to the 7,000rpm red line, accompanied by a deep-chested V8 rumble. Motorway cruising is brilliantly relaxed, too.

However, the six-speed gearbox is notchy which, combined with a sharp throttle and clutch, can make progress jerky at low speed. The stiff suspension is also very unforgiving, and the S5 is uncomfortable around town.

On smooth tarmac it's much better. Body roll is well controlled and the drivetrain offers total traction at all times. The steering is quick and accurate, too, but lacks feedback. So while the S5 feels very fast and competent, it's ultimately a bit numb.

In our opinion, BMW's 335Ci is still the better all-rounder, particularly when you consider the price. At £39,825, the S5 is £6,030 more than its rival - and that's a lot extra to pay.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/208358/audi_s5.html

Leadfoot
April 29th, 2007, 17:40
There is no denying the 335i is better value for money but the better all-rounder, I think the price is clouding their judgement a little to much.

Anyway when the 335i M/Sport is specced up to match that of the S5 the price difference is less than half that and then their decision looks a little more shaky.

Leadfoot
May 1st, 2007, 10:42
After re-reading the group test review between the 335i and the S5 I am at a lose as to why the S5 didn't win. They talked about the fact that the S5 destroyed the 335i on the twisty roads and was much better when it came to directional change and nimbleness, it had the much better interior design and fit finish etc., but it loses the test because the 335i has better steering feel and a chassis that allows the drivers to have better control over what the car does through the throttle, but ultimately it is still out-classed by the superior grip of the quattro system.

When will AUTOCAR ever change, what good is all this extra steering feel and throttle balance if the other car is drifting in to the distance. Sure the S5 is the dearer car but then again you are getting a more luxurious car with better quality materials and more equipment for your extra money and that before you include it's ability to totally destroy it on any give road, dry or wet.

It's as plain as day that the AUTOCAR don't like Audi so why not state the fact and stop the pretense that their tests aren't bias to one brand over another.

Benman
May 1st, 2007, 17:35
...what good is all this extra steering feel and throttle balance if the other car is drifting in to the distance...

It is so the BMW driver can say, "Oh yeah? Well I felt better as my arse was handed to me by your numb steering Audi". ;) :D

Ben:addict:

chewym
May 5th, 2007, 07:06
Bad reviews= from people that didn't drive the A5/S5.

Good reviews=from people that drove the A5/S5.

Check out thsi super excellent review

http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/12941/first-drive-2008-audi-a5-and-s5.html

AuditudeA642
May 8th, 2007, 04:36
The S5 shouldn't be hard to tune to 400Hp as it already has 354HP.