New RS6 - new info

[Ricoloco]

Talked to my dealer today, he had got some new info just recently.

It seems that Audi has solved the cooling issue, V10 double turbos. 582hp.

Order book opens november-december, first delivery in march-april.

[tazsura]

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Any word on gearbox?

Taz :0:

[RXBG]

pretty specific power rating he gave you. if so, this car will eat the M5 and E63 alive. it'll be on par with the S65. kick ash.

[Erik]

Ooooooollllllddd Neewws!

But thanks for reminding us!

And the Q5 might be news as well ;)

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10282


RS 6 launch
October 20th, 2006

RS6 Lim 5.0T FSI
580 hp :hihi:
Dec 07
Avant follows Mar 08

:addict:

Bonus...

Q5 launch

3.0 TDI
238 hp S tronic7 q
Sep 08, (unchanged)

[Ricoloco]

Yada yada yada Erik! ;)

See it as another confirmation, its going to be a turbo engine.

Btw, I´ve already reserved a slot!

[Erik]

Btw, I´ve already reserved a slot!

Only kidding.

Btw, did we ever get to see any pics of your RS4 Avant? :eye:

[Cargo8]

very nice!!! RS6 is gonna be a beast...

[RacerBice]

Well...still one heavy mo-fu, and S/RS Audi's have recently and regularly come up short in dynos in terms of real output. I mean, just look at the rather disappointing performance of especially the S6, which is only fractinally faster than already the 550 beemer. So I'd hold back on the cheers, and hope that the real thing will surprise us.

:alig:

[Erik]

The only thing that can stop the new RS6 is the new EU legislation, to lower to emissions. The RS6 is sure to be a real dirty pig in that area, and what happens if the Audi Board decides to lower the h-power to get a more attractive emissions rate?

Remember the M3 was in the far corner at Geneva, almost hidden away it felt.

This subject is very sensitive, like free speed on the Autobahn, and don't underestimate the forces behind them.

[Lateknight]

Don't take offence at this, but .....Dealers don't know shit !! :bigeyes:

I'm sorry to say I think they are making this up.

For a start how does he know? Dealers have not recieved any communique from Audi on the RS6 details.
I think he/she is speculating on the details. It has worked though, you have put your name down for one.

582hp ? ... sounds possible. Only by the fact that if this is a HP figure this converts to 590PS (Audi always quote PS now) and its also rounded down to the nearest 10 which is what Audi prefer to do with their outputs when they can.

IF (big if) this is true, it looks like the car will be another 2 tonne monster. Dashing any hopes of a lightweight version.

Just do not get your hopes up on this information, is all I am saying. :thumb:

[LU-RS6]

I am still thinking that we will only see an S6plus :eye:

[Ricoloco]

Only kidding.

Btw, did we ever get to see any pics of your RS4 Avant? :eye:

Changed the wheels today, photosession soon, promise! Almost had to hit he mechanic to give me back my carkey....

[Leadfoot]

I hope this power output will finally be confirmed soon as I would like to move on the the other interesting parts of the car like the suspension, transmission and brakes.

But back to the 582hp, great this explains why Qisha was so excited and why he said it will be amazing. With this amount of power the RS6 will beat the M5 and E63amg in every acceleration discipline, but only if the transmission is what we expect it to be, a 7sp auto with a ultra-fast shift.

My only concern is that this power usually costs a lot of money and might push to car into another price bracket and out of reach of it's current customers.

[Ruergard]

I really hope that's true... 582 hp... just crazy. Can't wait for the "real info"... :D

[Damienr8]

I really hope that's true... 582 hp... just crazy. Can't wait for the "real info"... :D

I still cant see 582 with a TT V10. Im still thinking the High Revving 5.2 NA V10 with 520hp.

[Ruergard]

I still cant see 582 with a TT V10. Im still thinking the High Revving 5.2 NA V10 with 520hp.

Yes, unfortunaly that's what my head says to when I'm not dreaming.. BUT, I'll stick to my dream when Erik and other people who 99% of the times are right! :thumb:

[Leadfoot]

Yes, unfortunaly that's what my head says to when I'm not dreaming.. BUT, I'll stick to my dream when Erik and other people who 99% of the times are right! :thumb:

Just think how sick we will all feel if SuperstarDriver was right all a long.:doh:

[Damienr8]

Just think how sick we will all feel if SuperstarDriver was right all a long.:doh:

ROFL i think i might just murder myself Leadie :trash:

[Ruergard]

Just think how sick we will all feel if SuperstarDriver was right all a long.:doh:


Leadie... don't be cruel to the poor man now! ;)

But... HAHAHAH! :thumb:

[Damienr8]

Apart from the engine specifications, what other enhancements do you expect to see on the RS6.

- DRC or Audi Magnetic Ride?
- Newest Version of the Quattro AWD system.
- LED lighting.

[bober3]

o my god this will kick ass

[RXBG]

http://www.speedsportlife.com/2007/03/29/spied-audi-rs6-testing-at-nurburgring

[tazsura]

LOOL AT THE ARCHES!!!!! :MTM: :bow:

Taz :jlol: :jlol: :jlol: :jlol:

[Leadfoot]

I see speedsportlife also have some doubts as to whether the RS6 is running a V10TT.

Quote: "rumors about a twin turbo V10 are false, and that the RS6 will instead be powered by a blown V8 producing over 600hp."

[Ruergard]

I see speedsportlife also have some doubts as to whether the RS6 is running a V10TT.

Quote: "rumors about a twin turbo V10 are false, and that the RS6 will instead be powered by a blown V8 producing over 600hp."

Man, that would be the ultimate solution. Though, sadly I don't think it ever will happen.. but just play with the thought about a 4.2 ltr V8 running two turbos and kicking out 600+ horsepower. CRAZY!

[DJim]

AUDI is going CRAZY!! And I Like It.. But i dont believe that :S V8 600Hp That's just to sick:D

[Toto89]

This sounds and look magnificent:wo: :wo: Audi finally seems to do something after a long time which is better than I've expected!!!The V8 engine will be lighter than any V10 or W12 variants...and it will have 600hp too:bigeyes: :applause: The best way:less weight, more power.
I really hope that this will be true!:addict:

[artur777]

V8 TT? Seems that it will be boosted highly.

Really it's good decision for Audi, because it solves some issues:
- weight
- torque
- hp


4,2 seems to be not too powerful to make it 600 hp with TT.
Will it be good torque from low revvs?

The main question: will it be V8 4,2 FSI or V8 RS4 as the base engine?
or V8 4,7 from Porsche?

[Lateknight]

600hp :bigeyes:

Hmmmm! Not sure about this one.

That is a 25% increase over the RS6 plus. Thats a fairly hefty increase.

IMO either;

1./ Its false (hope not - that would be one in the eye for BMW and Merc)

2./ Its true :love: based on one of the current 4.2fsi, running a pair of hefty VTG turbos (thanks Porsche)

3./ Have Porsche lent them their own 4.8 V8 twin turbo. Rumour is its now TT V8. Who said it has to be Audis V8? :confused:

If true, does seem strange that Audi are going away from the idea that the RS models engine will not be based on the S model.

[Leadfoot]

V8 TT? Seems that it will be boosted highly.

Really it's good decision for Audi, because it solves some issues:
- weight
- torque
- hp


4,2 seems to be not too powerful to make it 600 hp with TT.
Will it be good torque from low revvs?

The main question: will it be V8 4,2 FSI or V8 RS4 as the base engine?
or V8 4,7 from Porsche?

Guys don't jump the gun, this is only one opinion among lots that say the opposite. I agree that myself and Iceman have voiced that a V8TT would be a better option than a V10TT purely from a weight balance point of view, less weight over the nose and hopefully still have enough power and torque to stay competitive.

Erik stated that it was 5.0L TT but also states that it will be V10, does this mean that it's a different engine to that of the S6, this is a possibility, changing the vee, stroke and bore could free up extra space in the engine bay for the turbos to sit and who knows this might also be the engine that will go in the R8 less the turbos. Either way a 5.0L N/A engine can easily produce 480hp with no stress at all on the components so an increase of 100hp is really child's play for the engineers, the harder part is making the gearbox cope with the torque an engine like this will produce and until with know what that is all this talk on whether it is N/A or turbo is unimportant.

An automatic won't cope with the revs needed for a N/A engine to produces this amount of power from 5.0L, so if it's DSG then it might be N/A, if it's automatic then it twin-turbo. It's as simply as that.

[Leadfoot]

600hp :bigeyes:

Hmmmm! Not sure about this one.

That is a 25% increase over the RS6 plus. Thats a fairly hefty increase.

IMO either;

1./ Its false (hope not - that would be one in the eye for BMW and Merc)

2./ Its true :love: based on one of the current 4.2fsi, running a pair of hefty VTG turbos (thanks Porsche)

3./ Have Porsche lent them their own 4.8 V8 twin turbo. Rumour is its now TT V8. Who said it has to be Audis V8? :confused:

I like option 2 and as for option 3 why use a Porsche engine, why not re-bore and stroke their own 4.2FSi.:mech:

[QuattroFun]

Erik's engine source - V10 5.0TT FSI - is still the best bet. To deliver 580bhp, the V8 FSI TT 4.2 would have pump out as much as the claimed output of 140bhp/L as RS4 Mk I (and it never delivered this actually). There is no point in increasing V8 displacement when the V10 exists. The 4.2L V8 RS4 engine is 208kg (S4 195kg) and the 5.2L V10 S6/S8 engine is 220kg - latter is also a bit longer, but there is hardly a big difference overall as a starting point for weighty turbo-charging. The 5.0L V10 engine is likely to be more compact than the 5.2L V10.

I am most curious on the chassis - even a V8 with TT would pack at least as much weight on the front axle as the S6 V10 NA. And there is really a lot to improve on the donor S6 for the new RS6 to be good beyond the straightline and smooth tarmac - and in fact to be fun in the first place given its 2K mass. Air suspension or DRC?

[Ruergard]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/country/gcf/spyphotoID/6070330.003/audi/spy-photos-new-audi-rs6

[Lateknight]

The 5.0L V10 engine is likely to be more compact than the 5.2L V10.

Thought they were both the same size. They are both supposedly based on the architecture of the 4.2 V8.
The 5.2 has the same bore/stroke as the 4.2 at 84.5mm x 92.8mm
The 5.0 has a smaller bore at 82.5mm (same 92.8mm stroke) -although this would be the better bet for high boost turbo charging as it should have thicker cylinder walls.



I am most curious on the chassis - even a V8 with TT would pack at least as much weight on the front axle as the S6 V10 NA. And there is really a lot to improve on the donor S6 for the new RS6 to be good beyond the straightline and smooth tarmac - and in fact to be fun in the first place given its 2K mass. Air suspension or DRC?
Your right. They do have their a bit of work to do in the chassis department.

Would the of Magnetic Ride suspension system help?

[QuattroFun]

Hmm, the Nuvolari/Le Mans 5.0L V10 TT FSI is loosely based on the Gallardo V10. However, Cosworth added intercooled KKK TT and FSI to the Gallardo V10. The 5.0L displacement is the same, but there were changes to the stroke and bore required for FSI, as well as new pistons and a low-pressure cooling system as opposed to the Lambos high-pressure system. However, the final V10 5.0TT could have been further engineered for the RS6 from the prototype.

The S6/S8 V10 engine is 685mm long vs. the S4 V8's merely 464mm - dunno about the V10 5.0L TT. Still, it should fit into the RS6 engine bay - and without killing handling altogether, though (I think, but do not really know).

[Lateknight]

The S6/S8 V10 engine is 685mm long vs. the S4 V8's merely 464mm - dunno about the V10 5.0L TT. Still, it should fit into the RS6 engine bay - and without killing handling altogether, though (I think, but do not really know).

Thats just about it. Nobody really knows, Only Audi will know what engine will power the RS6.
We can speculate all we like on here - because thats all it is - speculation and rumours. There are definitely some well informed people on this forum, but
until Audi release any concrete information, the rumours and arguments will continue on this and other forums (much to the annoyance of some people, I'm sure) :harass:

[AudiFanatic83]

Changed the wheels today, photosession soon, promise! Almost had to hit he mechanic to give me back my carkey....


+ 1

ALWAYS LOVE TO SEE RS4 AVANT PICS :rs4addict

[chewym]

More RS6. No camo. Now with the signature twin oval pipes. Fourtitude says that it will be a twin turbo V10 with more than 550 hp. Also spotted what looks to be a Q7 V12 TDI mule. Check them out now.

http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publish/Audi_News/article_3026.shtml

[Ruergard]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/country/gcf/spyphotoID/6070404.001/audi/spy-photos-audi-rs-8-and-rs-6

[Leadfoot]

Ruergard,

Just check what I wrote before this was even on WFC.

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showpost.php?p=91819&postcount=5

Who's the daddy.:dig:

[RXBG]

i think the RS6, if so powered, will eat the M5 for lunch. i've always been told 580 hp. if it's any more than that ................. yikes!

[Ruergard]

Ruergard,

Just check what I wrote before this was even on WFC.

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showpost.php?p=91819&postcount=5

Who's the daddy.:dig:


I'm ain't saying anything m8! :thumb: :bow: :bow: :bow:

[Leadfoot]

i think the RS6, if so powered, will eat the M5 for lunch. i've always been told 580 hp. if it's any more than that ................. yikes!

RXGB,

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showpost.php?p=91778&postcount=41

Start believing mate.:dig:

[SuperstarDriver]

What Did I Tell You Guys?580hp V10 Tt Like I Said!!!!don't Mess With My Dealer Is Expert In Audi...is My Friend For A Long Time And I Did Tell You Exactly What Had Been Told To Me By Him:))i Never Get Wrong...

[rs-6]

I thought you had hacked leadie's account..:hihi:

[SuperstarDriver]

again and again i told you that RS6 will have V10 TT with 580HP...if i'm not right you can make me a preast...i know what i'm saying and i know how Audi will encourage all of us by buying the fastest 4 door saloon in the world...do you imagine that RS6 will be the fastest car around for family for friend for girlfriends for drag races for Nurbugring time, every detail on that car will be the most outrageous things on earth...i've just wait for it with all my heart!!!!thank you for believing me...

[Leadfoot]

:bow: SuperstarDrive,

I would be the last person to deny you your glory.

Hail the our new voice of all future Audis.:D

[absent]

I still strongly believe the RS6 will be with N/A V10 and 520-530 hp max.
If it does indeed come with TT and more power I will happily eat my words....:cheers:

[Leadfoot]

I still strongly believe the RS6 will be with N/A V10 and 520-530 hp max.
If it does indeed come with TT and more power I will happily eat my words....:cheers:

absent,

How do you like your words, grilled or baked? :hihi:

It output is actually 585hp and I have been informed Audi will have something up their sleeve in the off chance that either BMW or Mercedes decide to up the ante.

As for lap times, everyone prepare to be amazed.:bigeyes:

[RXBG]

i'm getting excited over here. if this car makes that much power i might be tempted to get one over the R8? am i for real? it'll prob cost less than the V8 R8......

[Leadfoot]

i'm getting excited over here. if this car makes that much power i might be tempted to get one over the R8? am i for real? it'll prob cost less than the V8 R8......

There is no doubt that it will be quicker in a straight line and if the lap time I have been told is to be believed it will on the Ring at least be almost as good around the corners.

But RXBG, you have to remember it's not going to provide the same excitement and sense of occasion that your R8 will delivery and like you say, chances are the price will be a little less.

[SuperstarDriver]

thank you for your understanding friedns...yes i know i almost know about every single model of Audi with a precise of an surgerer...so...now do you believe in me?i've told you this information since last year and are about 6-7 months ago that was my all new hottie detail about RS6 and more other models...i am curious why didn't you all believe me then?i think i am the biggest fan of audi and guys i have great news about me as well...i will soon finish an business and my bank account will be full of money if i will get the job done to the end so i will have the money to buy any audi model...i am tempted to buy first R8 than RS4 Cabrio an then the RS6...that's it for now...wish me luck!!!

[Klint]

i think the RS6, if so powered, will eat the M5 for lunch. i've always been told 580 hp. if it's any more than that ................. yikes!
Agreed, show the new RS6 and the E60 M5 a straight line, it'll be close!

Wonder if the next RS6 will have DSG? That would cut acceleration times by a substancial amount!

Would be interesting to see if Audi can work out the weight bias 'problem' on the next RS6.....

[Klint]

....i've told you this information since last year and are about 6-7 months ago that was my all new hottie detail about RS6 and more other models...

You weren't even a member then? :vhmmm:

Are you a pest from the past?

[SuperstarDriver]

no DSG...sorry, DSG could not be able to support that power, only the DSG from Veyron can do it but we all know Audi is developing a lot of models so don't have time to develop another DSG for RS6...only Tiptronic S supersport...that's it!

[Sacha]

You weren't even a member then? :vhmmm:

Are you a pest from the past?

yes, and you also said it would appear at GVA ;)

[chewym]

I still strongly believe the RS6 will be with N/A V10 and 520-530 hp max.
If it does indeed come with TT and more power I will happily eat my words....:cheers:

Does this sound like an 8,000 RPM redline V10? Or does it sound like a bi-turbo V10?

http://www.caranddriver.com/carvideos/?bcpid=627028702&bclid=686997774&bctid=716053172

I think it is hard to tell, but it basically solves the debate.

[buyalemon]

Does this sound like an 8,000 RPM redline V10? Or does it sound like a bi-turbo V10?

http://www.caranddriver.com/carvideos/?bcpid=627028702&bclid=686997774&bctid=716053172

I think it is hard to tell, but it basically solves the debate.

Sounds like a biturbo ...doesn't at all screem like E60 M5 or Gallardo (a bit stupid comp perhaps)!

Biturbo 550 hp 780nm

[absent]

I sincerely hope you guys are right about the TT RS6,since I am getting a bit tired of MBs and BMWs and would love to get an Audi again...

[Leadfoot]

I sincerely hope you guys are right about the TT RS6,since I am getting a bit tired of MBs and BMWs and would love to get an Audi again...

Absent,

I notice you have a 65amg. Well why not wait for the RS6+ and enjoy even more power than your present ride.;)

[absent]

Absent,

I notice you have a 65amg. Well why not wait for the RS6+ and enjoy even more power than your present ride.;)

A N/A RS6 will not do for me ,I am way too spoiled now and it almost became an addiction to tune every car I get.
A TT RS6 would let me do a significant tuning to get that car to levels equal or higher then any 65 while having a year round usability of it (awd really helps with that kind of power).
I was hoping to turbocharge the new S8 and it was a major letdown when Jason Heffner decided it couldn't be done.(He did several Gallardos)

[Leadfoot]

Did you never think of buying a Barbus Mercedes. A lot more exclusive than an AMG and quicker to boot.:D If I remember right, Michael Schumacher and more than half the Mercedes board members all own Barbus Mercedes.

[SuperstarDriver]

like i said before BRABUS is killing Mercedes with too much power to RWD that can't support it...Clarkson test Brabus SL65 AMG and could not put power down in corners at all, very very slow at corners because of the RWD traction and of course that i has too much power for an RWD...would you see an Veyron having 1001HP with RWD?If it was RWD you'd better go get your Michelin tire maker to change tires every 30minutes so...RWD is not a sport traction and when it has too much power even with ESP and Traction control on you could not put power down and your back will slide...look what has done 4WD against RWD...911 Turbo (Clarkson says...i think the only car in the world that can't under or oversteering at all), S/RS Quattro's, Lamborghini and more and more...4WD is beating the crap RWD and is able to manage all kind of power, even 1200HP could manage them or slighty the new Veyron GT 1250HP...i just wait to see how for example RS4 beat the crap again the new M3 and RS6 beat M5...i also wait for the new R8 V1O to kick stupid M6 CSL off...just wait for those days...and they are closer than we can think!

[absent]

I did have an '04 S600 done by Brabus (performance mods only)in Newport, to SV12TT specs and as Superstardriver mentioned,these cars need awd with that torque,especially in Chicago climate.
Btw,I lost my shirt on that car when traded in a year later with 20k miles on the clock.

[Bingocaller]

like i said before BRABUS is killing Mercedes with too much power to RWD that can't support it...Clarkson test Brabus SL65 AMG and could not put power down in corners at all, very very slow at corners because of the RWD traction and of course that i has too much power for an RWD...would you see an Veyron having 1001HP with RWD?If it was RWD you'd better go get your Michelin tire maker to change tires every 30minutes so...RWD is not a sport traction and when it has too much power even with ESP and Traction control on you could not put power down and your back will slide...look what has done 4WD against RWD...911 Turbo (Clarkson says...i think the only car in the world that can't under or oversteering at all), S/RS Quattro's, Lamborghini and more and more...4WD is beating the crap RWD and is able to manage all kind of power, even 1200HP could manage them or slighty the new Veyron GT 1250HP...i just wait to see how for example RS4 beat the crap again the new M3 and RS6 beat M5...i also wait for the new R8 V1O to kick stupid M6 CSL off...just wait for those days...and they are closer than we can think!

Where do you get this knowledge from? I doubt that a Veyron GT or a M6 CLS is "just" around the corner! I bet on that we see a Veyron Cab before any GT car and for the M6 I think BMW has their hands full for the moment in launching the new E61 M5 Touring and the new M3

[Cargo8]

actually there have been mentions of an m6 csl, so maybe it is "just around the corner" depending on your perspective on that. perhaps a few years?

[Leadfoot]

I would say that the M6 CSL will be a lot closer than a M3 CSL, possibly within the next two years. As for the Veyron GT with the 1250hp, this was discussed as long ago as 8 months back on this very site and it was myself that posted the link to the very article but to the best of my knowledge it was disregarded by VAG even before it hit the press and now that Porsche are holding the VAG reigns I very much doubt it will ever come to pass.

[rqiu]

As for the Veyron GT with the 1250hp, this was discussed as long ago as 8 months back on this very site and it was myself that posted the link to the very article but to the best of my knowledge it was disregarded by VAG even before it hit the press and now that Porsche are holding the VAG reigns I very much doubt it will ever come to pass.

It would be a good thing that this thing won't get produced. It is a waste of money and developement resources, IMO.

[MR USER]

I talked to one testdriver from Audi on monday during the presentation of the R8 in the Nurburgring. He was testing the car on the Nordschleife. His commets were something on the following line:

It will wait nearly 2 tons but it has close to 600 hp. With the setup the car has the handling is not compromised by the weight. Of course is not as agile as lighter cars but is a true blast. On the ring scary fast.

Would love to try it!!!

[absent]

like i said before BRABUS is killing Mercedes with too much power to RWD that can't support it...Clarkson test Brabus SL65 AMG and could not put power down in corners at all, very very slow at corners because of the RWD traction and of course that i has too much power for an RWD...would you see an Veyron having 1001HP with RWD?If it was RWD you'd better go get your Michelin tire maker to change tires every 30minutes so...RWD is not a sport traction and when it has too much power even with ESP and Traction control on you could not put power down and your back will slide...look what has done 4WD against RWD...911 Turbo (Clarkson says...i think the only car in the world that can't under or oversteering at all), S/RS Quattro's, Lamborghini and more and more...4WD is beating the crap RWD and is able to manage all kind of power, even 1200HP could manage them or slighty the new Veyron GT 1250HP...i just wait to see how for example RS4 beat the crap again the new M3 and RS6 beat M5...i also wait for the new R8 V1O to kick stupid M6 CSL off...just wait for those days...and they are closer than we can think!
RWD is always more "sporty" and way more entertaining and fun.
The main problem with MBs is not necessarily the lack of AWD but the weight distribution.
The rear end is way too light vs front and that huge torque only exacerbates the problem.
The right approach is the one taken by Ferrari/Maserati,where 612,599 and QP have no problems with traction,even in the wet.

[Leadfoot]

RWD is always more "sporty" and way more entertaining and fun.
The main problem with MBs is not necessarily the lack of AWD but the weight distribution.
The rear end is way too light vs front and that huge torque only exacerbates the problem.
The right approach is the one taken by Ferrari/Maserati,where 612,599 and QP have no problems with traction,even in the wet.

All the cars you have named has a weight balance to the rear something like 46/54 or there abouts, just like the R8. But when you have an awd car with the engine at the front you need the nose to be that little bit heavier to help the rear bias power from the awd system to come into play and help steer the car as traction is lost.

For entertainment rwd with a well balanced chassis will always be the better fun especially if like the above cars the more weight is over the rear. But I personally take joy in the speed my quattro carries through a corner and the way you feel the system working to find the most grip. You lot seriously need to get a day at a rally school to experience the difference awd has over rwd, it will enlighten your opinions as to which is the most fun.

In the dry it's rwd for sure but in the wet it's awd all the way.

[artur777]

Hi all,

I have got some new info from my dealer about RS6 and RS8 (yes, it will be RS8, not R8 v10!)

- RS6
It will weight close to S6
Engine will be V10 TT with 550+hp.
0-100 will be about 4.5, 0-200 will be 13-15 seconds.
First cars will be at dealers in the mid 2008.

- RS8
It will be extremely fast.
Engine will be V10 tuned to 520hp +/- 15 hp
0-100 will be about 3.8
It will be quicker than Gallardo, and in line with the 911 Turbo.
First cars will be at dealers in spring 2008.

[Leadfoot]

I talked to one testdriver from Audi on monday during the presentation of the R8 in the Nurburgring. He was testing the car on the Nordschleife. His commets were something on the following line:

It will wait nearly 2 tons but it has close to 600 hp. With the setup the car has the handling is not compromised by the weight. Of course is not as agile as lighter cars but is a true blast. On the ring scary fast.

Would love to try it!!!

As I have said, the RS6 has 585hp and believe it or not there is even talk at Quattro HQ of a RS6+ with well over 620hp. And you already know what I have hinted the lap times will be, this thing is the real deal.

[absent]

All the cars you have named has a weight balance to the rear something like 46/54 or there abouts, just like the R8. But when you have an awd car with the engine at the front you need the nose to be that little bit heavier to help the rear bias power from the awd system to come into play and help steer the car as traction is lost.

For entertainment rwd with a well balanced chassis will always be the better fun especially if like the above cars the more weight is over the rear. But I personally take joy in the speed my quattro carries through a corner and the way you feel the system working to find the most grip. You lot seriously need to get a day at a rally school to experience the difference awd has over rwd, it will enlighten your opinions as to which is the most fun.

In the dry it's rwd for sure but in the wet it's awd all the way.

Of course AWD will always be more tractable and more practical then RWD and will always be my preferred choice for a daily driver.
For weekend/track fun however,I still would rather have a RWD sports car.
Btw,I did attend Winter Rally school run by Rauno Aaltonen in Finland back in 1980.
Did navigators duty in 80/81 seasons.

[Leadfoot]

Of course AWD will always be more tractable and more practical then RWD and will always be my preferred choice for a daily driver.
For weekend/track fun however,I still would rather have a RWD sports car.
Btw,I did attend Winter Rally school run by Rauno Aaltonen in Finland back in 1980.
Did navigators duty in 80/81 seasons.

My statement was not directly directed at you personally, it was more for the rest of the members who haven't seen and felt the difference that awd makes to the balance, control and speed in slippery conditions over either fwd or rwd cars. You will know this to be true.

But for trackday fun I totally agree that a rwd car will provide entertainment that very few awd cars can and quattro is one of those awd systems that place efficiency ahead of entertainment or in other words is too good at what it does.

[RXBG]

i think it is a matter of style and taste when it comes to what drive system will give you more entertainment.

overall the rwd is classically more popular than any, but awd is my choice because it is more my style of driving, esp. a rear bias set up- to me the best of both worlds really.

re: lowly fwd- i have a friend that could pull 180s with his sentra se-r spec V a few years back (and a few other tricks that looked like fun). so to me it really depends on what you want the car for.

to look at it from a standard point of view, though, on the track and auto X i'd be perfectly happy with an awd car that has a rear bias differential....

[PeterJohn]

The M5 suffers from axle tramp (wheel hop) without electronic aid. Too much power, according to BMW themselves. We've reached the limit of what this type of chassis can handle. Unless you turn it into a supercar, with all compromises that that entails.

Likewise the x65 AMGs. In anything but a perfectly straight line on a grippy surface, the electronics have to intervene. And you end up with a car that's not very enjoyable, and dragging around a lot of engine it's not using.

That's why the S6 is able to keep up with an M5 through the twisties. Despite the engine/gearbox and 200kg extra weight. Or why the 911 Carrera is faster than the M6 (Top Gear). Only in ideal curcumstances does that 500hp actually make it to the ground.

This is a point where only AWD has the grip and grip balance to translate that awesome twist into forward motion. Unless Mercedes and BMW convert to AWD for their flagship models, Audi will leave them behind.

I imagine with that weight and power, the RS6 will eat through tyres like a depressed housewife.

[SuperstarDriver]

don't you guys understand that i'm obsessed by timing then "fun" of RWD? RWD could not put power down to be the best on a circuit vs 4WD car...that will not happen and for me winning is everything and nothing compares when you take and BMW in corners or in the straight line as well...an Quattro IS WAY MORE FUN TO DRIVE AND OF COURSE YOU FEEL HOW MUCH POWER YOU HAVE IN THE END OF THE CORNERS WHEN YOU ACCELERATE HEAVLY SO DO NOT EVER EVER SAY THAT RWD IS BETTER ON A RACE TRACK CAUSE IS NOT!THE PROOVAL SI RS4 ON NURBUGRING VS M6 FOR EXAMPLE A LITTLE BIT FASTER RS4 BUT 87HP less...why?!4WD GUYS...you must get into an M5 and then get into an RS4 to see how much balance and performance you feel you have in the RS4!feeling is fastening and fastening is victory, victory means power and respect, for me respect is when you are the best on a racetrack not if your car is drifting (i hate spinning wheels, not for me)...and for that it will never be a car more powerfull than 4WD car...look at RS4, MURCIELAGO, GALLARDO, 911 TURBO, IMPREZA WRX STI, EVO IX...all are one of their kind in their category!DO NOT MESS WITH 4WD ESPECIALLY quattro 4WD!!!!

[absent]

don't you guys understand that i'm obsessed by timing then "fun" of RWD? RWD could not put power down to be the best on a circuit vs 4WD car...that will not happen and for me winning is everything and nothing compares when you take and BMW in corners or in the straight line as well...an Quattro IS WAY MORE FUN TO DRIVE AND OF COURSE YOU FEEL HOW MUCH POWER YOU HAVE IN THE END OF THE CORNERS WHEN YOU ACCELERATE HEAVLY SO DO NOT EVER EVER SAY THAT RWD IS BETTER ON A RACE TRACK CAUSE IS NOT!THE PROOVAL SI RS4 ON NURBUGRING VS M6 FOR EXAMPLE A LITTLE BIT FASTER RS4 BUT 87HP less...why?!4WD GUYS...you must get into an M5 and then get into an RS4 to see how much balance and performance you feel you have in the RS4!feeling is fastening and fastening is victory, victory means power and respect, for me respect is when you are the best on a racetrack not if your car is drifting (i hate spinning wheels, not for me)...and for that it will never be a car more powerfull than 4WD car...look at RS4, MURCIELAGO, GALLARDO, 911 TURBO, IMPREZA WRX STI, EVO IX...all are one of their kind in their category!DO NOT MESS WITH 4WD ESPECIALLY quattro 4WD!!!!
Err...
OK! Whatever you say....:D

[Leadfoot]

The M5 suffers from axle tramp (wheel hop) without electronic aid. Too much power, according to BMW themselves. We've reached the limit of what this type of chassis can handle. Unless you turn it into a supercar, with all compromises that that entails.

Likewise the x65 AMGs. In anything but a perfectly straight line on a grippy surface, the electronics have to intervene. And you end up with a car that's not very enjoyable, and dragging around a lot of engine it's not using.

That's why the S6 is able to keep up with an M5 through the twisties. Despite the engine/gearbox and 200kg extra weight. Or why the 911 Carrera is faster than the M6 (Top Gear). Only in ideal curcumstances does that 500hp actually make it to the ground.

This is a point where only AWD has the grip and grip balance to translate that awesome twist into forward motion. Unless Mercedes and BMW convert to AWD for their flagship models, Audi will leave them behind.

I imagine with that weight and power, the RS6 will eat through tyres like a depressed housewife.

This first high-lighted statement makes a strong case for why quatro and other awd systems should be used when the power get up to around this figures.:dig:

And the second high-lighted statements makes a strong case for why not to have awd systems.:rolleyes:

[Thrives]

Some more clips of the RS6 on the ring ...

http://www.sportauto-online.de/aktuell_U_sport/nachrichten/hxcms_article_503691_14652.hbs

And this time with some other cars in it as well ... i.e. a merc, BMW and of course the RS6 tailed by the R8.

well worth a look!

[Yahh]

Some new Spy photos:
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/893/rs6avspy8og1.jpg
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6673/rs6avspy1qx1.jpg
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/7851/rs6avspy7jz5.jpg

Sorry if repost :)

[AudiSuperDriver]

autobild says that they know the official datas of the new RS6...i read this on their autobild.de site:
580HP
650NM
0-100:4.2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
limited to 300KM/H...
man i am inlove...

[Leadfoot]

autobild says that they know the official datas of the new RS6...i read this on their autobild.de site:
580HP
650NM
0-100:4.2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
limited to 300KM/H...
man i am inlove...

Where credit is due I will give it.


originally by AudiSuperDriver

new RS6 will be a monster, less weight than the S6 , rear bias quattro and new differential, very quick transmission, i heard 80ms to changes, 580HP and at least 650NM of torque so...i think like this...
1850kg
580HP
680NM
0-62: 4.4s(official) unofficial to be 4s
unlimited 315km/h


But like I said after your post.


originally by Leadfoot

I reckon that at times AudiSuperDriver is getting some info correct but at other times he goes off on one and you just know it's plain nonsense he's talking.

But this time I will only say that some of what he is saying is correct. ;)

I like said, your mate in Audi dealers only hears rumours and half truths.

And as for the top speed, I posted this way back in May.


originally by Leadfoot

and a top speed limited to 300km/h (186mph) just slightly slower than the R8.;)

[artur777]

Leadfoot,

what are the final figures?
What can we trust for 100%?

[Leadfoot]

artur777,

Hey, what can I say, I just know as much as the rest of you. ;)

P.S.

But I will say this, when info is passed my way and I am given the OK it's this forum that gets it first. :thumb:

[artur777]

Leadfoot, thanks!

This is the link from Autobild stated above.
http://www.autobild.de/artikel/Themen-Erlkoenige-Sportlich-wie-nie_369932.html

There is some info about next A6 and RS6.

[Leadfoot]

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/Themen-Erlkoenige-Sportlich-wie-nie_369932.html?bild=bild2

Basically what you see here is what the headlights of the RS6 will look like.

[MR USER]

Laeadfoot,
I just noticed you changed the footer of your messages... That sounds nice... what is next??? By any chance an RS6?!?

[Leadfoot]

Laeadfoot,
I just noticed you changed the footer of your messages... That sounds nice... what is next??? By any chance an RS6?!?

Sad to say it not going to be a RS6 this time round just a humble S5 but hopefully a RS5 after that. :thumb:

The RS6 is too rich for my blood, especially as a the UK price will more than likely start with a 7 at the beginning. :noshake:

[AudiSuperDriver]

i definitively think that new RS6 will have the A6 C7 Facelift...i saw some new RS6 Avant spyshots were the front headlights(the bottom of them were undiscovered with a black band) and thefore i think the headlights and the rest of the car will be like new 2008(for europe, for us 2009) A6 C7 Facelift...so be prepared...there is only one month left...hmmmm....

[tvrfan]

does somebody knows how much the new RS6 will weight? i mean in comparison with the M5?? is audi really so good at lightweight building? i mean, is the quattro gmbh changing the parts from the their cars with lightweight materials??? i dont know but when the car weight 2 t that would really suck, i hope for a weight of 1800 kilogramms +. that would be great.

[artur777]

Audi S6 weights 1910kg
Audi S4 and RS4 weight 1660 and 1650 kg
So we could hope for RS6 weighting app. 1900 kg.

[Leadfoot]

The RS6 will be less than the S6 and this will be down to the desire of Quattro GmbH to help balance the weight and improve it's handling, I reckon we will see a marked improvement in weight balance over the two axles compared to that of the S6, as to how much lighter it will be is any one's guess.

And if I knew the answer to this trust me you lot would be the first be know. :thumb:

[artur777]

Leadfoot,

Quatrro should do their best to improve weight balance, because of the TT modfications which make RS6 nose even heavier.
How could they reduce weight so dramatically and no to make the car too expensive?

[Leadfoot]

Leadfoot,

Quatrro should do their best to improve weight balance, because of the TT modfications which make RS6 nose even heavier.
How could they reduce weight so dramatically and no to make the car too expensive?

Exactly right, it won't be dramatically lighter only a little bit at most. The big difference will be which panels have been changed, all to the benefit of the handling. As I said before this car will have a different chassis setup compared to the rest of the A6 range.

I wouldn't like to guess what the improvements to weight balance will be though because before the figures were confirmed for the A5 the belief was that it would be near enough 50/50 and this wasn't the case.

I don't know what is the ideal balance on a front engined awd car, whether it's still like BMW believe '50/50' or what and I doubt anyone here knows either.

[artur777]

Leadfoot, I see.

The situation is as follows.
If you have weight balance 60/40, than you could partially compensate it by distributing the axle power as 40/60.
This is the situation of A6 range now.

As far as I can guess, Quattro GMBH could do 57/43 - no better, because of the engine placed in front of axle. But they could leave power distribution at 40/60. Could this improve handling? Hopefully, yes.

[Leadfoot]

The expectations of the RS6 are very high indeed, from what I have been told I believe that we will have a car that will either equal the drive-ability of the RS4 or even possibly better it, now regardless of how good some people feel the M5 is it in no way equals the RS4 or even the old M3 for driving dynamics or feel. The hints are that the RS6 will be this good but in a much bigger package and with a hell of a lot more performance.

We all know what an amazing job Quattro did with the RS4 compared to the S4 so think a long the lines of something very similar happening with that of the RS6 compared to S6 and we already know that the S6 can hold it's own against an M5 on a twisty track, factor in much improved dynamics and a huge 145hp kick and who ever buys one of these things will be in for one heck of a roller-coaster ride.

I reckon it needs to come with T-shirts that read 'GET IN, SIT DOWN, BUCKLE UP & HOLD ON!' :burnout:

[artur777]

He-he-he!
Right you are.
M5 and E63 have no chances again RS6.

And the Ring time will be below 8-00 - I am sure.
RS4 with normal set up is doing it at 8-09.
Due to at least the same handling &driveability and much better acc., it will break 8 min limit.

[Leadfoot]

He-he-he!
Right you are.
M5 and E63 have no chances again RS6.

And the Ring time will be below 8-00 - I am sure.
RS4 with normal set up is doing it at 8-09.
Due to at least the same handling &driveability and much better acc., it will break 8 min limit.

The time of 8 mins would be something very special now wouldn't it. Only time will tell if it can achieve a result like that. ;)

I know what it is capable of in the right hands but that doesn't mean that this time will be achievable by some magazines.

[Leadfoot]

OK, guys.

The latest in the every changing world of the RS6, first the power output was 520hp then 530hp, some thought 550hp but we all knew it was going to be 580hp, well think again due to CO2 readings the power might and it's a might be reduced down to 560hp. :rolleyes: Alls not lost, the torque will remain the same as before and like I said it only a might be reduced. :looking:

Next bomb shell, which model will be on sale first.

Any guess?
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[rubyblack]

Oh no!!! The saloon........;)

[artur777]

Leadfoot, why do they reduce the HP?
It's very bad indeed.

Sedan car will be first to sell - Quisha has said it.

[LU-RS6]

due to CO2 readings the power might and it's a might be reduced down to 560hp.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->


Leadfoot, why do they reduce the HP?



Uhmmm.... ;)

[Leadfoot]

Oh no!!! The saloon........;)

Who said the saloon. ;)

[Leadfoot]

Leadfoot, why do they reduce the HP?
It's very bad indeed.

Sedan car will be first to sell - Quisha has said it.

The horsepower thing is still in the lap of the gods, everyone know how CO2 are seen by the public at larger, what us car nuts thing means nothing.

As for the saloon being first, hey shit happens. Audi must have their reasons. ;)

[Leadfoot]

There is key info to do will the car that I for reasons that will be come clear, have to sit on. Sorry guys.

[rs-6]

downtuning until 560 hp because of co2 reasons would be RIDICULOUS!
wether 560 or 580, for the 'big public' it stays a 'way too strong' and 'co2-monster'
if a 'green image' is really the reason, audi should stop making the high-performance rs6

(ps: it's not that I would like them stopping to produce an rs6 but if they want to be green they should stop producing every engine exept of the 1.4 TFSI, no one 'needs' a car stronger than that, if you would follow that way of thinking)

[Leadfoot]

downtuning until 560 hp because of co2 reasons would be RIDICULOUS!
wether 560 or 580, for the 'big public' it stays a 'way too strong' and 'co2-monster'
if a 'green image' is really the reason, audi should stop making the high-performance rs6

I unsure as to why this is being discussed at the highest level inside Audi but the facts are it is, it may be that with 580hp it puts the RS6 above everything in it's class which Audi don't want it happen. Maybe 560hp is enough to stay ahead of the competition well improving the CO2.

What we see as RIDICULOUS is just that we aren't privy to the bigger picture. ;)

[The RS6]

Maybe with 560 it creates just-a-bit less CO2 then the competitors, so that's why they chose that option...

"The Fastest, The Cleanest..." :)

[roadrunner]

...
As for the saloon being first, hey shit happens. Audi must have their reasons. ;)

Audi brought the B7 RS4 as saloon first too, Avant & Cabriolet followed later. It is the common Audi practice to bring the saloon version of a given modell range first (C6 A6 saloon 2004, Avant 2005, B8 A4 saloon 2007 - Avant 2008).

But if i recal correctly the C5 RS6 was introduced as saloon and Avant simultanously. On the other hand - this was the 1st RS model that was not exclusively Avant (RS2 Avant & Mk. I RS4 Avant only).

Let's hope the C6 RS6 Avant will follow soon after the saloon :thumb:

[Leadfoot]

Audi brought the B7 RS4 as saloon first too, Avant & Cabriolet followed later. It is the common Audi practice to bring the saloon version of a given modell range first (C6 A6 saloon 2004, Avant 2005, B8 A4 saloon 2007 - Avant 2008).

But if i recal correctly the C5 RS6 was introduced as saloon and Avant simultanously. On the other hand - this was the 1st RS model that was not exclusively Avant (RS2 Avant & Mk. I RS4 Avant only).

Let's hope the C6 RS6 Avant will follow soon after the saloon :thumb:

Right I will explain a little as to why the decision was taken to release to the Avant first. Remember the wing mirrors with the indicator built-in and the headlights with LEDs, both these things are part of the face-lift and like I said before the RS6 has unique body panels.....so think which version of the face-lift will be out first and then this will explain as to why the Avant is the chosen one. ;)

This decision was made I might add at the eleventh hour, the original decision was to show both models at the same time.

[audi_ch]

According to a quattro gmbh worker, on the iaa will be a red and "ibiss weiss" rs6 avant, shown.

if as well limo, i dont know

see you

[artur777]

Downgrading for 560hp means that np RS6+ version will be, because C02 emissions will be a question again.
And I hope we will get both sallon and avant versions at IAA.

Leadfoot, but if only avant is shown at IAA, when do you think Audi will present RS6 saloon?

[rs-6]

at Geneva?

[Leadfoot]

According to a quattro gmbh worker, on the iaa will be a red and "ibiss weiss" rs6 avant, shown.

if as well limo, i dont know

see you

From what I have been told, the decision to drop the saloon was very much an eleventh hour thing. Like I said the decision has been taken because of the soon to arrival face-lift model. I reckon that Avant has less changes to it's appearance than the saloon version.

If this works the way I believe it will, depending on the reaction the Avant gets will determine whether the saloon get the face-lift and continue the entire production term of the face-lifted A6. Such a thing would be very un-RS like. But it true all the better for us and should mean a much larger production run.

But guys this is only my opinion not gospel.

[roadrunner]

From what I have been told, the decision to drop the saloon was very much an eleventh hour thing. Like I said the decision has been taken because of the soon to arrival face-lift model. I reckon that Avant has less changes to it's appearance than the saloon version.

If this works the way I believe it will, depending on the reaction the Avant gets will determine whether the saloon get the face-lift and continue the entire production term of the face-lifted A6. Such a thing would be very un-RS like. But it true all the better for us and should mean a much larger production run.

But guys this is only my opinion not gospel.

Makes very much sence. I believe that the changes to the front of the A6 will be minor and are not that crusial for the RS6 (different grill, bumper). But the images in the AutoBild we have seen of the A6 C6 facelift suggest, that the rear of the saloon will be reworked quite a bit (A5 style rear lights...). Now imagine buying a brand new RS6 saloon for lots of EUR / $ - only to find out in coulpe of months your rear is out of date :hihi:

The A6 Avant rear seems to stay almost untouched (a good thing in my eyes) - therefore no danger of provocing the RS6 Avant buyers.

Only a couple of weeks - i really look forward to the IAA.

Greetings
seb.

[Leadfoot]

Either way, we are getting a beast.

[artur777]

One thing only: could this story with face-lift postpone RS6 saloon for a year? because as far as I know, A6 facelifted should be presented at Geneva 2008. Then we will see first RS6 saloon at next autumn...
Too bad.
What you think?

[Damienr8]

Makes very much sence. I believe that the changes to the front of the A6 will be minor and are not that crusial for the RS6 (different grill, bumper). But the images in the AutoBild we have seen of the A6 C6 facelift suggest, that the rear of the saloon will be reworked quite a bit (A5 style rear lights...). Now imagine buying a brand new RS6 saloon for lots of EUR / $ - only to find out in coulpe of months your rear is out of date :hihi:

The A6 Avant rear seems to stay almost untouched (a good thing in my eyes) - therefore no danger of provocing the RS6 Avant buyers.

Only a couple of weeks - i really look forward to the IAA.

Greetings
seb.

The wait is killing me. Can't wait to see the new A4 as well :hahahehe:

[Leadfoot]

One thing only: could this story with face-lift postpone RS6 saloon for a year? because as far as I know, A6 facelifted should be presented at Geneva 2008. Then we will see first RS6 saloon at next autumn...
Too bad.
What you think?

Sorry I info on that, I would reckon the your opinion may be correct.

[absent]

Sorry I info on that, I would reckon the your opinion may be correct.
Since the new A6 will debut in '08 Geneva and US will get RS6 in the Fall of '08,does that mean we would get a facelifted RS from the get go?

[Leadfoot]

Since the new A6 will debut in '08 Geneva and US will get RS6 in the Fall of '08,does that mean we would get a facelifted RS from the get go?

Sorry mate, I don't know the ins and outs of marketing the thing, but your opinion looks sound. The US doesn't a present take the Avant only the saloon so if Europe was to get the saloon in Sept/Oct (Fall) then I would have thought the US would be possibly a few months behind us.

What has the dealers told you, have they given an idea as to a release date or are they taking deposits?

But like I said I doubt know the marketing run-out of the RS6 for anything other than Europe.

[AudiSuperDriver]

i read in my local AMS magazine that at IAA Frankfurt Audi will launch RS6 Avant but i am very sure that will not be like that...first the saloon for european people and then the Avant for US...i am very sure that this magazines are wrong about the avant being first released...!always audi were launching the saloon and after the avant, that's the way it is!

[absent]

Sorry mate, I don't know the ins and outs of marketing the thing, but your opinion looks sound. The US doesn't a present take the Avant only the saloon so if Europe was to get the saloon in Sept/Oct (Fall) then I would have thought the US would be possibly a few months behind us.

What has the dealers told you, have they given an idea as to a release date or are they taking deposits?

But like I said I doubt know the marketing run-out of the RS6 for anything other than Europe.

RS6 Saloon only,sometime next Fall,that's all they know so far....

[Leadfoot]

RS6 Saloon only,sometime next Fall,that's all they know so far....

Are they taking deposits as yet or just your name? This will explain as to how close they believe the car is away from release over there.

[absent]

Are they taking deposits as yet or just your name? This will explain as to how close they believe the car is away from release over there.

Some dealers take deposits,others just the names of previous customers.

[Leadfoot]

I was told recently what the new suspension system in the RS6 will be and I will tell you this, it is going to help the car blow the other competition away.

For those lucky future owners, think of the improvement that the RS6 will have over the S6 a kin to how much of an improvement there was between the S4 and the RS4. :bigeyes:

How ever much this car will be in it's respective markets compared to the competition all I reckon it will be worth every penny.

It seriously will be a RS4 equivalent with an extra 140~160hp. :hahahehe:

If the devil owned a car it would surely be the new RS6.:king:

[HKS786]

I was told recently what the new suspension system in the RS6 will be and I will tell you this, it is going to help the car blow the other competition away.

For those lucky future owners, think of the improvement that the RS6 will have over the S6 a kin to how much of an improvement there was between the S4 and the RS4. :bigeyes:

How ever much this car will be in it's respective markets compared to the competition all I reckon it will be worth every penny.

It seriously will be a RS4 equivalent with an extra 140~160hp. :hahahehe:

If the devil owned a car it would surely be the new RS6.:king:

Wow, can you tell us any more about the new suspension?

[Leadfoot]

Wow, can you tell us any more about the new suspension?

Link (http://www.rs6.com/forum/showpost.php?p=103400&postcount=1) ;)

[Leadfoot]

By the way, torque is 650Nm (480ft/lbs) no rev range figures. When combined with either 560 or 580hp it will make this one seriously quick car.

Comparison against rivals

E63 514hp and 630Nm (465ft/lbs) @ 5200rpm
M5 507hp and 520Nm (384ft/lbs) @ 6100rpm
RS6 580hp and 650Nm (480ft/lbs) @ quessing (2200~5500rpm)

Really, what hope do they have.

[Benman]

For those lucky future owners, think of the improvement that the RS6 will have over the S6 a kin to how much of an improvement there was between the S4 and the RS4. :bigeyes:




I'd believe that statement. Look at the 1st gen RS 6. Compare it to the S6... no comparison. I expect nothing less from the 2nd gen. Sadly, I don't see myself as one of the customers at this time...

Ben:addict:

[Lateknight]

By the way, torque is 650Nm (480ft/lbs) no rev range figures. When combined with either 560 or 580hp it will make this one seriously quick car.

Comparison against rivals

E63 514hp and 630Nm (465ft/lbs) @ 5200rpm
M5 507hp and 520Nm (384ft/lbs) @ 6100rpm
RS6 580hp and 650Nm (480ft/lbs) @ quessing (2200~5500rpm)

Really, what hope do they have.

Thats a capped torque figure to protect the transmission. Just like it is in the cooking Bentley W12 and A8 Tdi - both are 650nm aswell.
I think the tuners will like this engine.

I wonder if Audi are trying to get this engine under 300g/km Co2, seems a plausible reason for a drop in horsepower at this stage in development.

[artur777]

We have been waiting for new RS6 for so long, that no emotions left already.
I just hope that it will be in the market early next year.
And surely it will be very capable.

Concerning the HP and Torque figures - we don't know the weight.
Likely it will be heavier than prime competitors. Besides, Quattro "eats" more power than RWD, and WHP figure will be more or less the same. All we hope for is cornering abilities due to Quattro.
Unlikely RS6 will post 0-100 time faster than 4.4 sec. Moreover, after 160 km/h RWD will be a certain advantage.

Look at the example. We have some acceleration tests between Audi S8 and BMW 335i Automatic. All are stock cars.
Audi S8 started better than 335i due to 4WD and better grip, but already at 100 km/h 335i reached and started outrunning S8. At 160 km/h the distance between 335i and S8 was 3 full car lengths. Reming the official 0-100 figures: Audi S8 - 5.1 sec, 335i - 5.7 sec. Look like that RWD has advantage at high speeds.
The same may be when comparing RS6 and E63 for example.
So let's wait and see what RS6 will be...

[Leadfoot]

We have been waiting for new RS6 for so long, that no emotions left already.
I just hope that it will be in the market early next year.
And surely it will be very capable.

Concerning the HP and Torque figures - we don't know the weight.
Likely it will be heavier than prime competitors. Besides, Quattro "eats" more power than RWD, and WHP figure will be more or less the same. All we hope for is cornering abilities due to Quattro.
Unlikely RS6 will post 0-100 time faster than 4.4 sec. Moreover, after 160 km/h RWD will be a certain advantage.

Look at the example. We have some acceleration tests between Audi S8 and BMW 335i Automatic. All are stock cars.
Audi S8 started better than 335i due to 4WD and better grip, but already at 100 km/h 335i reached and started outrunning S8. At 160 km/h the distance between 335i and S8 was 3 full car lengths. Reming the official 0-100 figures: Audi S8 - 5.1 sec, 335i - 5.7 sec. Look like that RWD has advantage at high speeds.
The same may be when comparing RS6 and E63 for example.
So let's wait and see what RS6 will be...

Before I start, this is something I haven't been told about so this is purely my own opinion on the subject but based on what I already know about the car.

The RS6 will post better than 4.4s but not by much so lets say 4.2~4.3s but I believe it 160km/h will be low 9s, possibly 9.2~9.4s and a 250km/h time of 22~24s. This will no doubt improve with some of the US mag tests as they like to use dragstrips but on the road the above figures will be achievable.

With regards to the awd vs rwd debate, the BMW group of this site believe that the M5 is quicker than a E63 so no matter what we say won't be right unless it's to place the M5 first in the acceleration rankings.

Between you and me the M5 will be running a distant third in my opinion. As for the battle between the Merc and the Audi, my gut still says that the Audi will be the quicker, especially in kick-down due to the huge torque advantage over such a wide rev range.

As for handling, well..... the S6 is already better than both so the RS6 is going to destroy them completely.

[artur777]

Leadfoot,

how could S6 with its heavy nose be better than both M5 and E63?
Only because of Quattro? As far as I understand, Quattro helps to accelerate better when exiting a corner.
It makes sense when the grip is not perfect, but on a dry and grippy surface it's a little bit strange to me.
May be in the hands of professional Audi driver it is so.
But for the rest of us who are not Schumachers it is doubtful.
It is really strange for me how could so underpowered car perform so well in comparisson test with M5 and E63.
I have tested both S6 and M5 and S6 impressed me less in the terms of accelerating and handling. But may be my driving capablities are not professional enough to understand that.

[Leadfoot]

artur777,

When the track involves purely handling ability and not out right grunt the S6 is the better handling car, it holds on to it's line best than the other and is able to brake deeper in to the corner than either of the others and if you check the supplied video from Motortrend you will see that this is indeed the case. Plus like you already said it's capable of getting better traction out of the corners.

The most interesting thing from this video of the telemetry of the cars is the position on the road and the attitude the cars took on entering a corner. It's the S6 which looks the more stable on entering/during and exiting the corners. It might not be the most entertaining style but it is the clearly the most efficient.

You have possibly watched it before but please watch again and look for the things I have been saying.

Motortrend_S6_vs_M5_E63 (http://www.dragtimes.com/video-viewer.php?v=5EmOhdu1J-A)

[artur777]

Leadfoot,

I have watched this video.

S6 and M5 are very close to each other,
and S6 is better when cornering,
and M5 is better at the straights.
Where is E63-)))? It's lost despite of its engine.

So you assume that RS6 would be anyway better than S6 and will leave for dead not only E63, but M5 also because of its even better habdling and much more power. Do you think it's possible to make even better handling than S6 has? At the video, S6 has a tremendous handling comparing to M5's one.

[Leadfoot]

Leadfoot,

I have watched this video.

S6 and M5 are very close to each other,
and S6 is better when cornering,
and M5 is better at the straights.
Where is E63-)))? It's lost despite of its engine.

So you assume that RS6 would be anyway better than S6 and will leave for dead not only E63, but M5 also because of its even better habdling and much more power. Do you think it's possible to make even better handling than S6 has? At the video, S6 has a tremendous handling comparing to M5's one.

Trust me, the handling of the RS6 will be a revelation compared to that of the S6. :bow: Like I said before thing S4 to RS4 and you will get the picture.

[artur777]

Leadfoot,

could you please say what the handling differences between S4 and RS4 are? I don't know the details of S4 suspension.
I know that Ring time of S4 is 8-26 and RS4 8-09. What part of the improvement is engine and handling respectively?

[Leadfoot]

Leadfoot,

could you please say what the handling differences between S4 and RS4 are? I don't know the details of S4 suspension.
I know that Ring time of S4 is 8-26 and RS4 8-09. What part of the improvement is engine and handling respectively?

The S4 Avant model was the one tested by Sport Auto and lapped the ring in 8:29 that's 20 seconds slower than the RS4. The RS4 if I'm correct was equipped with ceramic brakes, SS+ suspension and the sticky rubber, the brakes would have made little improvement and the same for the firmer suspension but the rubber does and it could have been as much as 6~7seconds. The rest was the engine and of course the DRC suspension itself.

The DRC system reduces pitch and roll when braking, accelerating and cornering. It cross diagonally linked between the front Left and the rear Right and the reverse for the other side, this is how the system not only controls roll but pitch as well. Because the system controls both of these it allows for a softer set-up than normal, this is the reason for it's amazing ride compared to that of a S4.

It a cost effective alternative to the MagneticRide and Air.

[artur777]

But if we take similar cars with different type of suspensions.
What car will be the fastest and the slowest? (MagneticRide, DRC, Air, Normal)

[3x5PSI]

artur777,

When the track involves purely handling ability and not out right grunt the S6 is the better handling car,

What like maybe, oh I don't know, perhaps Hockenheim?

http://mmm.os.org.za/d/1622-1/S6vsM5.jpg

[3x5PSI]

my gut still says that the Audi will be the quicker, especially in kick-down due to the huge torque advantage over such a wide rev range.


Oh like, oh I don't know, maybe the previous RS6+ with its huge torque & 480hp:

http://mmm.os.org.za/d/1640-1/RS6vsE55.JPG

All 480 ponies struggled against the E55 from 60mph to 124pmh where it lost 2.2 secs.

Even against the E39 M5 it struggled at high speeds.

http://mmm.os.org.za/d/1637-1/amsrs6.jpg
http://mmm.os.org.za/d/1625-1/RS6.JPG

[artur777]

3x5SPI,

a question for you:
you wrote here that HP is more relevant than Torque in acceleration.
And if HP is similar only then Torque plays role.
Let's assume it's so.
But how then M5 is faster than E63 inspite of similar HP, weight and less Torque?

For me it's a serious question, because I sill try to get how relevant is HP or Torque for acceleration. And what is more important to be faster.
Could you please comment.

[Leadfoot]

M&M,

I prefer to call you by the name you got banned with. :hihi:

You clearly didn't read the comments I wrote before this, but here you go.

Originally by Leadfoot
When the track involves purely handling ability and not out right grunt the S6 is the better handling car

On out-right lateral grip the S6 is superior than either the M5 or E63, sure on tracks like Hockenheim the extra grunt that the M5 has over the S6 will place it ahead, no one is in argument with this.

If you watched the same video from Motortrend you will clearly see that the S6 has the best composure on entry/through and exiting all of the corners. You will also have witnessed that on the occasions that the M5 did get in front over the short straights on the approach, during and leaving all of the corners the S6 had regained the lead. What other proof is needed that in cornering the S6 is superior.

[artur777]

Leadfoot, could you answer my previous question between the difference of suspension of S4 and RS4?

[Leadfoot]

But if we take similar cars with different type of suspensions.
What car will be the fastest and the slowest? (MagneticRide, DRC, Air, Normal)

Again only my opinion on the subject.

MagneticRide should offer the fastest lap time followed by DRC, normal and then Air.

P.S.

In the suspension vote, I will tell you this. The air is a no goer as it's not suitable for speeds in excess of 250km/h. :hahahehe:

[Leadfoot]

Leadfoot, could you answer my previous question between the difference of suspension of S4 and RS4?

Sorry artur777 I thought I had.

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showpost.php?p=103662&postcount=141

[artur777]

Leadfoot, thanks!

Missed your answer.

[3x5PSI]

Arthur, that is actually a very good question. I'm glad you asked it. Having cars which fits on both sides of the coin, I have to say it is ALWAYS HP that prevails.

Having said that, torque & HP are closely related. So if you have more torque at XXX rpm, you will have more HP as well.

SO if you can keep your torque curve from falling AT HIGH RPM, your HP will continue to rise & you will always be getting ahead in the race.

The reason I say high rpm is because in any race you either start in 1st gear or rolling in a specific gear. But once you punch it, you will end up at high rpm & stay there. Every time you change gears from that point on in the race you will remain in the upper 2-3000rpm of your rev-range.

For example on a 335i you will generally rev 6500 (even though the redline is 7000), & the gearing is such that you will fall back to 4500 on most shifts. So your operating band is effectively 4500-6500 in a racing situation.

The fact that you have 650NM at 3000rpm is not going to help you, especially if the other car has more aggresive gearing.

So when you see the E55 beating the RS6 at high speeds, even though they have similar hp, you will be thinking it was the torque. In a way it was as the 55 was holding more torque at high rpm, which effectively means it was making more power at high rpm. The RS6+ is typical of a car with small turbos. They make loads of mid-range but peak very early & cannot flow enough boost at high rpm. Makes for a great everyday car though.

[Leadfoot]

3x5PSI,

Your explanation was perfect, but say for arguments sake that the two cars being compared were the new RS6 and the M5.

We know the peak torque of the M5 in 384ft/lbs @ 6100rpm and the RS6 producing it's peak torque over a greater rev range say 480ft/lbs @ 2200~5500rpm, what if the RS6 just happens to still producing more torque than the M5 is at it's 6100rpm peak and still does so right up to the RS6's red line of 7000rpm. Surely then the RS6 will be the better bet, not only will it be producing more power over the entire rev range but more torque as well.

It gearing will always keep it in most of it's sweet spot and even as it moves pass it's peak it will still be producing more than the M5. I don't think the M5 will have much reply to a situation like that, but then again I don't know how much torque the RS6 will have at such revs. ;)

[3x5PSI]

3x5PSI,
what if the RS6 just happens to still producing more torque than the M5 is at it's 6100rpm peak and still does so right up to the RS6's red line of 7000rpm.

If it does produce more torque at 7000rpm than an M5, then it will also produce more power there. That's at the engine. The torque to the wheel is what matters as we all know gear ratio's are a "torque multiplier". But if they both have 7-speed boxes with similar gearing then the RS6 wil also have more torque to the wheels (I'm ignoring the quattro lossed for now).

The problem is that small turbos can't do that. Impossible to compete with an NA engine with ITB's at high revs. If it were possible then that would be one great engine. You never know, maybe theres some new technology that can do it but the restriction at high revs is the tiny turbos & its a mechanical restriction.

[Leadfoot]

If it does produce more torque at 7000rpm than an M5, then it will also produce more power there. That's at the engine. The torque to the wheel is what matters as we all know gear ratio's are a "torque multiplier". But if they both have 7-speed boxes with similar gearing then the RS6 wil also have more torque to the wheels (I'm ignoring the quattro lossed for now).

The problem is that small turbos can't do that. Impossible to compete with an NA engine with ITB's at high revs. If it were possible then that would be one great engine. You never know, maybe theres some new technology that can do it but the restriction at high revs is the tiny turbos & its a mechanical restriction.

I think you need to look at a Porsche website to find out that new technology.;)

[rs-6]

that's something I havn't thought about before :looking: could the RS6 get VTG? that would be KICK-ASS :dance:

[Leadfoot]

Of all the companies in the VAG group the one Porsche are in the near future to be working with is Audi, so who know what technology sharing has went on behind closed doors.

[3x5PSI]

Leadie, check this out. It's a chipped + exhaust RS6 vs stock V10 at altitude (where the normally aspirated car loses a lot more than the turbo car). The dyno was correcting to engine power by doing a coast-down & adding the losses to the wheel power. I don't have the wheel output, but I'm sure you can imagine the 4WD will lose significantly more down to the wheels.

Anyway, the point is not the outright numbers but the shape of the curve. You can see the chipped RS6 makes HUGE torque in the mid-range. If you do a rolling run at around 3500rpm it will get an instant jump on the M5. IS that due to the huge torque advantage at 3500rpm? Well follow the 3500rpm line down to the power curves. You see it has a HUGE power advantage as well at that rpm. Like I said before if you have more torque at a point, you will also have more power at that point. & its the power than does the work.

But anyway, the graphs aren't aligned properly as one car revs to 6600 & the other to 8100. If you could stretch the RS6 to the M5 curves & then superimpose the last 2000rpm, you could have a comparison of the racing powerbands. And that is where the M5 will have an advantage. It has an amazing torque curve at high rpm. The further the race goes the more it will start to shine. Also it is lighter with shorter gears but that won't show on dyno graphs.

http://mmm.os.org.za/d/1642-1/V10vsChippedRS6.JPG

[rs-6]

with vtg I see the 0-100 coming very close to 4 seconds...(the number after the point will depend on the gear ratio of the 2nd gear)

[Leadfoot]

If it does produce more torque at 7000rpm than an M5, then it will also produce more power there.

Think back to the old RS4 the v6 Bi-turbo one, it's peak power was at 6000~7000rpm, so you reckoning is possible.

[Leadfoot]

3x5PSI,

Without the respective graphs aligned it's impossible to see what you are trying to prove. But in any case what you have there is a tuned old RS6 with a much smaller 4.2L engine, the S6 engine is a litre more though the RS6 has been pegged back to 5.0L to improve heating and reving. With the addition of turbos Audi will not be going for all out power regardless of tractability, the engines torque curve will run basically flat over a predetermined range and it's peak power will no doubt be very close to the red line, they are not amateurs at this sort of thing, you don't win Le Mans the number of times Audi have by winging it. They have proved capable of producing one of the finest N/A v8 engines ever and if they had felt it necessary to use a N/A engine again they would have done so.

This engine will be an amazing piece of engineering, the equal to anything that M/Sport has produced, mark my words.

[3x5PSI]

Think back to the old RS4 the v6 Bi-turbo one, it's peak power was at 6000~7000rpm, so you reckoning is possible.

That was one great car. I'm sure its possible to make a small turbo car peak around 6500rpm.

[3x5PSI]

3x5PSI,

Without the respective graphs aligned it's impossible to see what you are trying to prove. But in any case what you have there is a tuned old RS6 with a much smaller 4.2L engine, the S6 engine is a litre more though the RS6 has been pegged back to 5.0L to improve heating and reving. With the addition of turbos Audi will not be going for all out power regardless of tractability, the engines torque curve will run basically flat over a predetermined range and it's peak power will no doubt be very close to the red line, they are not amateurs at this sort of thing, you don't win Le Mans the number of times Audi have by winging it. They have proved capable of producing one of the finest N/A v8 engines ever and if they had felt it necessary to use a N/A engine again they would have done so.

This engine will be an amazing piece of engineering, the equal to anything that M/Sport has produced, mark my words.

Whoah! I'm not saying anything bad about it. I didn't say it won't deliver. I am merely talking from a technical point of view. I own a car with the current international engine of the year. It had direct injection, 10:2 compression, awesome straight 6, specially designed turbos, etc.

And it still only peaks at aroung 5800 rpm. Sure its quite flat to 6300-6400. Then it slowly drops around 20hp to 7000. Still a great engine as all the awards are proving.

But its still dead in water after 100mph against a V10 even though we make similar peak power & he is heavier. It's all about holding the power longer to redline.

[Leadfoot]

But like you said you are comparing a 3.0L bi-turbo that is tuned to produce as much as is possible from the hardware available, it was never design with this amount of power and torque in mind. I bet you if it was 5.0L and producing the same amount of power it's torque level would be much more impressive and the results from the race wouldn't be the same.