Video: Why a brake upgrade can save your life

[LU-RS6]

<object height="350" width="425">

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1ZCCcX7A_Vg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" height="350" width="425"></object>


4 young people swirling over the Autobahn without using their mirrors properly...I so hate that :nana:
Thank god I had my brakes upgraded.

[Speedou]

I know the feeling. It is unbelievable that people who lives in Germany still don't know how to drive on the autobahn. But great thing you have brains to use money also to brakes!

[LU-RS6]

I know the feeling. It is unbelievable that people who lives in Germany still don't know how to drive on the autobahn. But great thing you have brains to use money also to brakes!


Thanks Speedou!


I refused to have the car delimited before I had upgraded my brakes, because as everyone can agree if you want to drive fast or do tracks, they are not sufficient.


I can understand that some people might not be able to see me coming if I'm still far away, after all you don't see a car passing by at about 300 km/h everyday.
But that peugeot should have seen me coming as I was already fairly close.

:nana::nana:

[jonas21]

Hehe i know this feeling....just pushes your adrenaline level to the sky. People only watch the rear mirror 1 time and see the car is far away and then go to overtake someone. Why the heck dont they take a second view and check how fast people are.....
Btw what is that yellow alarm you have there? Is that the speed alert? (I have it at 330 but i guess i'll never hit it at that point.... )

[LU-RS6]

Hehe i know this feeling....just pushes your adrenaline level to the sky. People only watch the rear mirror 1 time and see the car is far away and then go to overtake someone. Why the heck dont they take a second view and check how fast people are.....
Btw what is that yellow alarm you have there? Is that the speed alert? (I have it at 330 but i guess i'll never hit it at that point.... )

Yeah it is the speed alert, I had it at about 280 I think (hence the difference with the speedometer). I use it as a frontier from where I double my concentration, 280 is like the frontier between fast and really fast ;)

[Avus-RS6]

Good brakes = necessary for those speeds! I'll be getting the Phaeton scoops and better pads before I go over 155mph or to the track!

[Mori]

That is exactly why I opted for ceramics. The last time someone got into my lane when I was 200+ I had to overtake on the safety lane or crash.

[AudiAllroad]

Ohh, luck for you didn't drove a Renault Megane or something in over 300km/h...=)
Which speed did the 206 have?

/Audi

[jonas21]

That is exactly why I opted for ceramics. The last time someone got into my lane when I was 200+ I had to overtake on the safety lane or crash.

Unless Audi comes up with something unbelievable as brakes for the new RS6 i am going to order ceramic for it. I am sure they'll offer it as an option just like on the RS4.

[LU-RS6]

Ohh, luck for you didn't drove a Renault Megane or something in over 300km/h...=)
Which speed did the 206 have?

/Audi


I think it was about 140 km/h.
Some stupid girl chatting with her friends in the car :doh:
I have nothing against women in cars, my mother herself drives very sporty and easily does 200 km/h, but some of those women are more focusing on using lipstick in the car rather than driving.

[LU-RS6]

Unless Audi comes up with something unbelievable as brakes for the new RS6 i am going to order ceramic for it. I am sure they'll offer it as an option just like on the RS4.



Yeah exactly my thoughts.

Offtopic:
Except, I still doubt whether Audi will come up with that RS6. I think Audi will hit us with an S6plus like they did with the C4 model.

[SuperstarDriver]

no no no...RS6 will come!!!and bravos man...you brakes are bad...brembo carbon ceramic brakes?or what?

[itchingtogo]

Can I get details (part #'s etc.) on the Phaeton scoops and better pads so that I may repeat your "good luck".

Thanks Gary

[LU-RS6]

You can find more info and pics in these threads

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread....ght=hot+brakes (http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8885&highlight=hot+brakes)

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11376

[jimmy94507]

You can find more info and pics in these threads

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread....ght=hot+brakes (http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8885&highlight=hot+brakes)

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11376


Bits of information I've previously supplied is contained in the above threads.

Comments on Pads:
I'm not sure how the Pagid Blues characteristics stack up to Audi RS6 OEM supplied by Pagid? I talked to Pagid Engineer who worked on the RS6 brake development with Audi. He said the resultant OEM pad was a compromise of race/street characteristics to meet Audi's strict street performance/noise requirements. He advised RS 14's or RS 15's for more severe applications. They will be noisier on the street and progressively harder on the rotor wear.
I have used the RS 14's on the street and the cold bite is good, excellent modulation and a bit noisier, but not objectionable to me. If I were regularly driving the Autobahn with stock rotors I would immediately put in Motul RBF600 fluid and RS 14's, perhaps RS 15's and RS 19 rears!! (Pagid only started supplying OEM rear pads with the launch of the RS4, which are identical to the RS6 - limited availability) Interesting information Follows.

Friction Characteristics of Pagid Pads:
http://www.braketechnology.com/racecharacteristics.html

Friction level of Pagid Pads:
RS4-2 BLUE (Carbon-based): 0.42@ 100C, 0.49 @ 500C, Working: 350-600C, Max 650C
RS-14BLACK (Ceramic-based): 0.47 @ 100C, 0.54 @ 600C, Working: 400-700C, Max 800C
RS-15GREY (Ceramic-based): 0.54 @ 100C, 0.57 @600C, Working: 400-800C, Max 900C
New Rear Pagid Pad for RS6/RS4:
RS-19YELLOW (Ceramic-based): 0.43 @ 100C, 0.49 @ 550C, Working: 400-700C, Max 750C

Regards, Jimmy S

[LU-RS6]

Bits of information I've previously supplied is contained in the above threads.

Comments on Pads:
I'm not sure how the Pagid Blues characteristics stack up to Audi RS6 OEM supplied by Pagid? I talked to Pagid Engineer who worked on the RS6 brake development with Audi. He said the resultant OEM pad was a compromise of race/street characteristics to meet Audi's strict street performance/noise requirements. He advised RS 14's or RS 15's for more severe applications. They will be noisier on the street and progressively harder on the rotor wear.
I have used the RS 14's on the street and the cold bite is good, excellent modulation and a bit noisier, but not objectionable to me. If I were regularly driving the Autobahn with stock rotors I would immediately put in Motul RBF600 fluid and RS 14's, perhaps RS 15's and RS 19 rears!! (Pagid only started supplying OEM rear pads with the launch of the RS4, which are identical to the RS6 - limited availability) Interesting information Follows.

Friction Characteristics of Pagid Pads:
http://www.braketechnology.com/racecharacteristics.html

Friction level of Pagid Pads:
RS4-2 BLUE (Carbon-based): 0.42@ 100C, 0.49 @ 500C, Working: 350-600C, Max 650C
RS-14BLACK (Ceramic-based): 0.47 @ 100C, 0.54 @ 600C, Working: 400-700C, Max 800C
RS-15GREY (Ceramic-based): 0.54 @ 100C, 0.57 @600C, Working: 400-800C, Max 900C
New Rear Pagid Pad for RS6/RS4:
RS-19YELLOW (Ceramic-based): 0.43 @ 100C, 0.49 @ 550C, Working: 400-700C, Max 750C

Regards, Jimmy S


I picked the pagid blue because they are supposed to be lighter on the rotors and are not "squealy", and they also have excellent bite in the rain.

But I'm a bit of a nitwit when it comes to car mechanics so I am quite sure there 'll be an even better solution regarding pads.

Tomorrow I'll be going to the Ring but am still a bit in doubt whether to hit the track with my car..

[jimmy94507]

I picked the pagid blue because they are supposed to be lighter on the rotors and are not "squealy", and they also have excellent bite in the rain.

But I'm a bit of a nitwit when it comes to car mechanics so I am quite sure there 'll be an even better solution regarding pads.

Tomorrow I'll be going to the Ring but am still a bit in doubt whether to hit the track with my car..

I've added Cold friction to the table below. This is probably close to the friction you would get at initial brake application in the rain or blasting down the Autobahn - higher is better. 2nd, the increased working/max temps. of the ceramic based pads is quite important at the ring or the track for a number of reasons better explained by others.

Friction level of Pagid Pads:
RS4-2 BLUE (Carbon-based): 0.4 Cold, 0.42@ 100C, 0.49 @ 500C, Working: 350-600C, Max 650C
RS-14BLACK (Ceramic-based): 0.44 Cold, 0.47 @ 100C, 0.54 @ 600C, Working: 400-700C, Max 800C
RS-15GREY (Ceramic-based): 0.50 Cold, 0.54 @ 100C, 0.57 @600C, Working: 400-800C, Max 900C
New Rear Pagid Pad for RS6/RS4:
RS-19YELLOW (Ceramic-based): 0.4 Cold, 0.43 @ 100C, 0.49 @ 550C, Working: 400-700C, Max 750C

regards, Jimmy S.

[manticRS6]

here is what I wrote in response to another brake discussion on this forum.

Here is another option that really works from Stasis Engineering
<HR style="COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->I dont know if you guys in europe need to have everything TUV approved or not, but these guys race 3 Audis in the World Challenge Series and have been racing for years. I had their coilovers on my S4 and they were incredible. I will purchase the Ohlins coilovers for my RS6 from them and iIam looking at getting the Alcon brakes too. I have 2 friends that are using this setup currently an they are extremelly happy. One has 500hp R32 and the other one has an E46 M3, both with with VF superchargers.

It is a 6 piston caliper from Alcon with 370mm (14.5") 2 piece rotors. And the price is way better than Movit or any other kit you can get in Europe. Prices for aftermarket stuff is a lot cheaper over here in the US.

If someone is interested, I can check how much shipping is to Europe.

Check out the link:

http://www.stasisengineering.com/Cat...i&EN=68&PID=30 (http://www.stasisengineering.com/Category_Detail.aspx?id=8&YR=2003&MK=Audi&EN=68&PID=30)

[gmbh6]

Dude! Why are you driving so fast? :hihi:

:addict:

[Fab]

That is exactly why I opted for ceramics. The last time someone got into my lane when I was 200+ I had to overtake on the safety lane or crash. Ceramic are great of course but just remember the test ceramic vs standard brakes I posted on the RS4 section : first big braking with the ceramic is 5-6 meters longer than standard. The ceramic must be warmed up before delivering their best.

This means that for a one shot big braking (as in this vid) standard brakes will perform better.

[Mori]

From 160 I agree. I'd like to see the results for 10 consecutive brakings from 310 though. ;)

Seriously though - its rare that you get up to 300 or so on the autbahn and have cold brakes. Practically impossible.

[minimad]

One has 500hp R32 and the other one has an E46 M3, both with with VF superchargers.


500hp R32 with VF S/C??? mark IV or mark V? this car is unbeliveable:bigeyes:

[manticRS6]

Its a mark IV with VF stage 4 kit. I couldnt believe it the first time I drove the car. It is pretty insane, just wish the power came on a little earlier. It only makes 5lbs of boost until you hit 5000 rpm and then all hell brakes loose.

[LU-RS6]

Was at the Ring today and the brakes sure didn't like it :hihi:

We came off the track and the tires were smoking hard, so we took the car for a brake-less spin on the B-roads to let the brakes cool.
With some imagination you can see the smoke coming off the brakes in the first pic.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t260/Chillax666/Ringtime/100_8846Large.jpg


http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t260/Chillax666/Ringtime/img_0182.jpg

[Ruergard]

Ahh.. looks like a lot of fun! :D

[LU-RS6]

It was :dig:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t260/Chillax666/Ringtime/100_8847Large.jpg

[itchingtogo]

Thanks For the info!

[Fab]

From 160 I agree. I'd like to see the results for 10 consecutive brakings from 310 though. ;)

Mori 10x consecutive is not the point here....

[Mori]

Aye, for me the point is the 19m difference after 10 brakings. That is a HUGE difference. And I've never had a situation on near any road where my brakes were cold for lack of using them. So its a moot point for me.

Anyway - brakes are one of the most important elements in a car. In a city a difference of 2m decides whether you're going to hit that pedestrian who ran out onto the zebra crossing or not.

[Fab]

Mory nobody here is saying the contrary : Ceramic brakes are great no doubt.

But they need a little warm up before to give their best. So in a one shot hard braking you might be longer than with standard so beware pedestrians :hihi: !!! See below :

RS 4 Avant with ceramics:

1º 100,8 mts
2º 96,4 mts
3º 97,8 mts
4º 95,3 mts
5º 93,4 mts
6º 92,2 mts
7º 92,2 mts
8º 92,2 mts
9º 92,3 mts
10º 91,9 mts

RS4 Cabrio Standard Brakes

1º 95,82 mts
2º 96,4 mts
3º 97,62 mts
4º 94,22 mts
5º 97,06 mts
6º 94,47 mts
7º 102,43 mts
8º 101,71 mts
9º 104,83 mts
10º 107,96 mts

Also 10x consecutive 160-0 hard braking does not reflects any real drive situation even hard track drive.

But of course it concretely shows you that the extra $$ spent are worthwhile. :D so be happy :jlol:

[LU-RS6]

Have u cleaned most of the RS-identifying things on your rs6?

Nope, it is still badged front and rear.
Thinking about putting on 1.9 TDI though :hihi:

[LU-RS6]

Yes, that of course ;)

But i ment the mirror cases for example ;)

But this is the thing i like, audi is very understating and the drivers like to understate in contrary to BMW ;)


I generally don't like the alu mirrors to be honest, so I'm more than happy to have them in black :0:

[Bensch]

This is a autobahn with 2 tracks at the day...:doh:
Why you are driving 300? You have nothing under control...thats only stupid.

Do that on the A5 with 3 or 4 tracks at the night or on a race track.
tztz this is typical, many foreigners come to Germany for racing on the autobahn cause here is no speed limit and driving like idiots.

Especially dutchs and swiss are racing on the autobahn.

Don't think I'm a slow driver, I like to drive fast myself but in this situation it's stupid.
Sometimes driver not even look one time in the mirror...in this case it could be really close and you will crash before you have any chance to brake.

Think about it.

[jonas21]

This is a autobahn with 2 tracks at the day...:doh:
Why you are driving 300? You have nothing under control...thats only stupid.

Do that on the A5 with 3 or 4 tracks at the night or on a race track.
tztz this is typical, many foreigners come to Germany for racing on the autobahn cause here is no speed limit and driving like idiots.

Especially dutchs and swiss are racing on the autobahn.

Don't think I'm a slow driver, I like to drive fast myself but in this situation it's stupid.
Sometimes driver not even look one time in the mirror...in this case it could be really close and you will crash before you have any chance to brake.

Think about it.

Troll go home!

[Aronis]

where is the side by side comparison Stock Vs Upgraded in the same insane situation????

Mike

[skiwi]

This is a autobahn with 2 tracks at the day...:doh:
Why you are driving 300? You have nothing under control...thats only stupid.


if that is true, then you are correct - the behaviour is stupid and is putting the driver, and others lives at risk.

[Fab]

That is exactly why I opted for ceramics. The last time someone got into my lane when I was 200+ I had to overtake on the safety lane or crash.
Be carefull the Audi ceramics do not brake shorter than stock RS4 brakes on a one shot big braking such this highway vid. Actually it is the contrary : ceramics braking distance (cold) is longer than stock brakes. Once hot then ceramics make the difference.

Always good to know...

[KarlMarx]

I'm considering ceramics on my new RS6 and this is an area I could do with some advice on please...

Do you reckon that normal driving/braking (on motorways) would warm the brakes up enough for the fact that they are ceramic to make a difference?

Basically my decision will come down to whether or not my car would stop more quickly (rather than the pose-factor - which is less important to me than avoiding a crash).

[Fab]

I posted the test RS4 stock brakes vs ceramics months ago here... results on 10 consecutive hard braking were very clear on a 200-0 I think

The first 2 braking stock some meters shorter.
then up to 5 both were more or less the same
then ceramics all the was.

I am not saying ceramics are not good of course they are. But people tend to believe they can make the difference in normal life (one hard braking time to time to avoid something) and it is not the case.

I hesitated a lot wether getting them or not. I am happy with stock brakes. On an RS6 though I would get ceramics for shure. Definitely.

[KarlMarx]

Yep - I saw those figure - interesting to read. Would you definitely go for cermaics on the RS6 because of the extra weight?

[Fab]

definitely.

The car will weight something like 400kg more than the RS4...

[KarlMarx]

Cheers..

[gjg]

This is a autobahn with 2 tracks at the day...:doh:
Why you are driving 300? You have nothing under control...thats only stupid.

Do that on the A5 with 3 or 4 tracks at the night or on a race track.
tztz this is typical, many foreigners come to Germany for racing on the autobahn cause here is no speed limit and driving like idiots.

Especially dutchs and swiss are racing on the autobahn.

Don't think I'm a slow driver, I like to drive fast myself but in this situation it's stupid.
Sometimes driver not even look one time in the mirror...in this case it could be really close and you will crash before you have any chance to brake.

Think about it.

stupidity goes for the driver in slow lane, Bensch - specially on unrestricted autobahn - if you look closer he had no business in left lane for quite distance. Rather typical situation where some people strongly believe they do own the Autobahn driving 120 km/h in left lane. LU was a actually lucky that the driver did not hit the brakes to demonstrate his superiority in left lane and make him to slow down even more just for fun of it. I agree with you that there is too many drivers WITHOUT mirrors on Autobahn - smaller the car, less mirrors .....

Although Dutch drivers could dominate the "most arrogant" left lane hogging (read "driving slow in left lane") there is equall if not bigger number of German drivers doing the same $hit like you have seen in the video - had this happen to me couple weeks ago around Flensburg on A7.

Someone who purchased his drivers licene in Kaufland (and apparently got a factory reject) pulled on empty autobahn to left lane, no turn signal, doing 120 and than hit the brakes (no traffic) to slow down to about 90-100 to make sure that we will have to follow him while he was passing another car for next 5 kilometers. The guy driving S8 behind me had to eat his steering wheel ....

Now who is the idiot? :doh:

Good reaction and brakes, LU