New quattro

[rqiu]

Quoted from Audiworld.com:

Couple of interesting comments from AoA...

The New A5 will offer Torque Vectoring Quattro where the system will be able to shift power not only from rear to front wheels but also independantly to the left and right rear wheels through a differential - a first for Audi - should make for awesome handling...

Thoughts and/or confirmation?

[Leadfoot]

I was under the impression that the Q7 was already using this system, I guess I was wrong.

[RXBG]

HOLY MOLY. that is HUUUUGE news. i want to know more. how does that compare with the R8 system?

[Leadfoot]

HOLY MOLY. that is HUUUUGE news. i want to know more. how does that compare with the R8 system?

If you have been in an EVO you will know that it's far better than anything else including what the R8 has, sorry to say.:thumb:

[Damienr8]

Quoted from Audiworld.com:

Couple of interesting comments from AoA...

The New A5 will offer Torque Vectoring Quattro where the system will be able to shift power not only from rear to front wheels but also independantly to the left and right rear wheels through a differential - a first for Audi - should make for awesome handling...

Thoughts and/or confirmation?

That is very good news. Has there been any other improvements to the Quattro system, more specifically, weight saving changes?

[rqiu]

Has there been any other improvements to the Quattro system, more specifically, weight saving changes?

Other improvements were not mentioned. I just hope this improvement is true. :0:

[quattro Gmbh]

If you have been in an EVO you will know that it's far better than anything else including what the R8 has, sorry to say.:thumb:

evos 4wd system doesn't have variable torque transfer between front and rear. it can be preset to 70:30 or 50:50 for example.

and torque transfer between rear wheels is not flexible as 0:100-100:0.


Honda's sh-awd system (made by borgwarner) is much better than evo's super ayc system.

[quattro Gmbh]

now I wonder if Torque Vectoring Quattro technology is also developed by BorgWarner?

[Leadfoot]

evos 4wd system doesn't have variable torque transfer between front and rear. it can be preset to 70:30 or 50:50 for example.

and torque transfer between rear wheels is not flexible as 0:100-100:0.


Honda's sh-awd system (made by borgwarner) is much better than evo's super ayc system.

The EVO offers three presettings 70:30, 50:50 and 30:70 but I must admit I was under the impression that it do have full torque transfer between the rear wheels, but there you go.

The Honda set is better than the car and that is why it's not getting the acclaim it deserves. But I don't know what it is with the EVO, but it is something special when the road goes really twisty and the way it can be recovered from unbelievable slides is mind warping.

If the new Quattro system produces these abilities while maintaining all that we hold dear about Audi then I believe they will be the best cars around. So I ask you why would Porsche want rid of such a prize as Audi.

[andreadebi]

new Quattro made by Ricardo

http://www.ricardo.com/media/pressreleases/pressrelease.aspx?page=60

[andreadebi]

Grip And Grin
Ward's Auto World, April 1, 2005 by Bill Visnic

Byline: Bill Visnic

All-wheel-drive was viewed as nothing less than a metaphysical advance when Audi AG introduced its quattro technology for road cars in 1980.

In the quarter century since, adaptation for all types of vehicles has fostered countless engineering variations, but the goal essentially is the same: distribute power to all four wheels to augment traction and security.

AWD provides undeniable worth in foul-weather conditions (and off-road, of course), and is a key attribute in the meteoric growth of SUV sales. Now, as buyers expand their horizons beyond SUVs into cross/utility vehicles and other car-based architectures, they want AWD along for the ride.

Witness AWD's recent proliferation into just about every market segment above subcompact cars.

From the start, though, Audi insisted AWD had another advantage: improved handling - even on dry tarmac. The auto maker made its point over the years by dominating several forms of racing, sometimes thrashing 2-wheel-drive competition so emphatically that AWD was banned.
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In the real world, engineers and enthusiasts agree AWD usually is superior to either front-wheel drive or rear-wheel-drive in wet, ice and snow, but they debate AWD's ability to "improve" handling or cornering behavior on dry roads.

Mechatronic technology, until now largely unheralded, advances AWD to a new level of dynamic ability far beyond its reputation as a traction enabler for foul-weather driving.

That technology has a name: torque vectoring. The engineering that enables torque vectoring is not uncharted territory, but a new showcase, the Super Handling All-Wheel Drive (SH-AWD) system that's standard for Honda Motor Co. Ltd.'s '05 Acura RL sedan, has grabbed the attention of driveline and chassis engineers and buyers.

Whether attributable to SH-AWD or not, the new RL is burning rubber on the sales figures of the prior-generation Acura flagship.

Torque vectoring - engineers at multinational engineering specialist Ricardo plc claim to have coined the term - is the practice of enabling the AWD driveline to actively increase the rotational speed of one axle - or in the case of Acura's SH-AWD, a single wheel, even - to enhance handling.

Think of it as the industry's now-ubiquitous stability control system - which selectively brakes an individual wheel to affect handling - in reverse.

In a corner, Acura's torque-vectoring SH-AWD system will "overspeed" the rear axle, then channel a disproportionate amount of that torque to the outside rear wheel, generating an inward yaw that pushes the car more resolutely into the corner - and helping to offset the tendency of AWD/FWD vehicles to understeer, or push away from the corner. The system also can stabilize oversteer situations, such as when the throttle is abruptly shut while cornering.

Whether in low-traction conditions or in the dry, many who have driven the Acura RL say SH-AWD's performance adds an eye-opening new dimension for AWD. Toss the RL into a corner and bury the throttle: The aggressive torque transfer between rear wheels creates the driving sensation of a car on rails.

The RL's torque-vectoring system has auto maker and supplier engineers buzzing. Some debate the technology's ultimate impact from a volume perspective, but most agree torque-vectoring is a formidable new advance in AWD development.

More telling, perhaps: Almost every auto maker and AWD-connected supplier is actively evaluating torque-vectoring AWD technology.

"There's a lot of interest around at the moment," says Ben Reynolds, chief engineer, AWD driveline systems, Ricardo Driveline and Transmission Systems. Ricardo, he says, currently is developing torque-vectoring AWD for a vehicle that will be in the market "sooner than later," and "several major Tier 1s are active in the field."

For Audi, the big daddy of AWD in the premium market, torque vectoring plays a definite role in future quattro development programs.

Ulrich Hackenberg, head of concept development and body engineering for Audi AG, says Audi is working to integrate torque vectoring with its foundation quattro AWD system. If you can selectively apply torque, "you can get the maximum" from AWD, he says.

"We are working with (torque vectoring) demonstrators internally," Hackenberg says, adding he has driven the Acura RL and found the SH-AWD technology impressive. "We will not stand still (with conventional quattro AWD). We have to improve ourselves."

BorgWarner Inc., one of the largest AWD/4WD suppliers in the world, also has an eye on torque vectoring, says Dave Bruder, chief engineer of the TorqueTransfer Systems division.

Bruder tells Ward's BorgWarner is in "a (torque-vectoring) development program with an OE," but declines to name the auto maker. The vehicle likely is a sport sedan.

Ricardo's Reynolds says one of the next production vehicles to sport torque-vectoring AWD is expected to be from a German auto maker in '07. That torque-vectoring system will not be Ricardo's design, he adds.

To appreciate torque vectoring's advantages, it's best to understand "conventional" AWD systems currently available. Disregarding their method of actuation and other system-specific peculiarities, most AWD systems rely on a couple of basic underlying principles.
First, many conventional AWD systems that always have some amount of drive being applied to all four wheels rely on gears, clutch packs or some other differential mechanism to generate a fixed torque split, or "bias," between front and rear axles.
Audi's quattro, for example, employs a Torsen center differential with a 50/50 torque bias. That means, in normal conditions, 50% of drive torque is applied to the front axle and 50% to the rear. This type of system often is referred to as "permanent" AWD.
Many Japanese AWD systems, as well as the Haldex system used by Volvo Cars, Ford Motor Co. and Volkswagen AG, typically are not designed to drive all four wheels when extra traction is not required.
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These "part-time" systems usually place a differential on or ahead of the axle not normally employed as a drive axle, i.e. the rear axle of a Toyota RAV4, which in non-AWD format is front-drive only. Driving down the straight, dry road, a RAV4 is sending no drive torque to the rear axle. A Haldex-equipped AWD vehicle might be the same, or perhaps transfer a nominal 5% to the rear axle.
But what happens when a wheel, or wheels, start to spin? It's important to realize today's standard AWD systems - regardless of how their differentials work and regardless of their default torque split - are designed only to equalize the speed of both axles and the wheels on those axles.
Let's say one of a quattro-equipped vehicle's front wheels hits ice. The system deduces that wheel is spinning faster than the others. The center differential shifts torque from the front axle to the rear axle, until the rotational speed of each wheel is equalized. Limited-slip differentials or traction control also can aid the AWD system in equalizing the speed of a spinning wheel or wheels.
This action is passive in comparison to a torque-vectoring AWD system, which actively increases the rotational speed of a wheel, or axle, to offset a loss of traction or to improve handling performance.
Acura's SH-AWD employs a collection of electromagnetic clutches and planetary gears in an elegant and complex rear differential unit that effectively handles both the front/rear torque split (70% front/30% rear is default) and the side-to-side apportioning of torque (either rear wheel can accept from 0 to 100%) that plays a critical role in achieving the torque-vectoring effect.
It is not an inexpensive unit.
And cost is one of torque-vectoring's unavoidable drawbacks. Price is what will keep the technology in the realm of premium vehicles.
"It's definitely a niche-type product," says Vern Jones, director of business development at BorgWarner's TorqueTransfer Systems.
He says any torque-vectoring system is going to be "complex and expensive."
Grip And Grin
Ward's Auto World, April 1, 2005 by Bill Visnic
<< Page 1 Continued from page 2. Previous | Next
"AWD on its own isn't enough any more," to be a differentiator in upscale market segments, says Jonathan Wheals, chief engineer, Ricardo Driveline and Transmission Systems.
He says one of Ricardo's chief development goals is to design a torque-vectoring system with "actuation technology at a reduced cost." Ricardo is working on a novel design that uses a geared system with clutches and magnetorheologic fluid.
James M. Baumbick, chief vehicle engineer, Medium/Large FWD/AWD platforms at Ford Motor Co., says Ford currently regards torque vectoring as an extremely cost-prohibitive system, for which buyers would be unwilling to pay, in higher-volume applications where Ford is seeking to proliferate AWD.
He points to the RL's comparatively ambitious price tag - $49,100 - as evidence the cost of the system is being passed along to the buyer.
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Audi's Hackenberg says any decision to invest in torque-vectoring technology will be based on a careful cost-benefit analysis, but the company that's built its reputation on AWD engineering ultimately "will do the right thing for the customer."
He says Audi sees much of the cost potentially coming from the need for increased onboard data-handling capability. A torque-vectoring AWD system could demand a significant upgrade in data-handling architecture, he says.
Matt Karaba, vehicle controls performance engineer for General Motors Corp.'s Cadillac Sigma series, says torque vectoring might add 20%-30% more integration effort.
Ricardo's Wheals says software controls are important for robust integration with the vehicle. One chief concern, he says, is in how software would be "de-commissioned" if overheated, say on the racetrack, or in the event of a component failure.
As torque-vectoring applications make their way from development to production, the technology likely will see a variety of engineering and marketing efforts.
An Acura spokesman says the auto maker is backing its torque-vectoring SH-AWD system as a market differentiator. Acura confirmed its upcoming RD-X compact CUV will have SH-AWD, and the spokesman says Acura will "seriously consider SH-AWD for other products as well."
Expect to see torque vectoring emerge in the next few years for high-end or performance vehicles, says Karaba, adding the technology is "on our radar screen," but Cadillac has yet to commit to a production system.
Torque vectoring is an important innovation for either type of vehicle because "you can affect vehicle dynamics without cutting power," he says, referring to contemporary stability-control systems that influence handling through a combination of curbing drive torque and applying the brakes.
Ricardo's Reynolds agrees torque vectoring's best advantage is its active nature.
"(Stability control) is very interventionist." He says when stability-control systems activate to affect handling, "it doesn't necessarily feel good. It's a common complaint" that doesn't go down well with premium-vehicle customers.
Grip And Grin
Ward's Auto World, April 1, 2005 by Bill Visnic
<< Page 1 Continued from page 3. Previous | Next
"Brakes have the capability to apply a lot of torque," adds BorgWarner's Bruder. "It's hard to do that in a seamless fashion." Torque vectoring, he says, is "stability control turned upside down."
The ideal application, he adds, probably is an AWD performance car - where torque vectoring can help generate a more entertaining "oversteer tendency."
Finally, there's a spectrum of methods to achieve the torque-vectoring effect. Acura's SH-AWD is a high-end approach, most say. Ricardo's engineers say they have worked with systems that deliver similar effects with a torque-vectoring device to overspeed just one axle, or with "cross-axle" systems that can increase the rotational speed of individual wheels.
Honda's fifth-generation Prelude (launched in the U.S. in '97) used an optional system dubbed Active Torque Transfer System (ATTS) that effectively generated cross-axle torque vectoring at the front axle. When cornering, the system could shift 80% of the drive torque to the outside front wheel, and overspeed that wheel by as much as 15%.
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In markets other than North America, Mitsubishi's Lancer Evolution employs a torque-vectoring differential at the rear axle. Nissan's high-performance Skyline GT-R also has an AWD system that effectively vectors torque.
Wheals says Ricardo is focused on developing a torque-vectoring system that is less costly by employing low actuation torque and can be disconnected when not required, cutting cost and enhancing durability. But Ricardo has no particular preference on whether a torque-vectoring unit overspeeds the axle, or individual wheels.
"We're looking at both," says BorgWarner's Bruder. "We have a little more experience with side-to-side."
He adds that there's also nothing to stop torque-vectoring technology from being used in vehicles - largely fullsize pickups and SUVs - with traditional transfer-case AWD systems, invoking one additional prospect for torque vectoring: Its potential as a stability-control system, particularly for high-center-of-gravity vehicles typically already fitted with AWD.
"You've already got ESP (electronic stability control) to do that," asserts Wheals. But Audi's Hackenberg counters, "In the final stages (of development), it can be a safety feature. It's something we are thinking of."
Price and esoteric functionality, however, are likely to combine to relegate torque vectoring to narrow market segments. Many engineers say a vehicle has to be driven hard to derive torque-vectoring benefits - so unless the system is fitted to some type of sport sedan (such as the RL) or performance car, the benefit would be lost on a typical customer.
"It's a performance-enhancing device," Bruder sums up.
"It can improve limit-handling capability," says Cadillac's Karaba.
Ricardo's Reynolds is more bullish.
"In a decade's time, (torque vectoring will be as common as) air conditioning," he says.
COPYRIGHT 2005 PRIMEDIA Business Magazines & Media Inc. All rights reserved.
COPYRIGHT 2005 Gale Group

[chewym]

Acura has this right now, but the RL that has it gets poor fuel economy. The 300 hp V6 in the RL gets the same fuel economy as the 350 hp V8 A6/A8. Hopefully Audi can do better.

Read article (with pictures) about the Ricardo system on the A6. They talk about the 2009 model year, which quite possibly can fit the A5.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=118789

[rqiu]

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="94%"><tbody><tr><td colspan="3">http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_audi_offer_torque/

Audi to Offer Torque Vectoring </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top" width="50%"> By Bill Visnic
Ward's AutoWorld, Feb 1, 2007 12:00 PM </td> <td style="vertical-align: top;">
</td><td align="right" valign="bottom" width="50%"><!-- Copyright 2001-2003, Clickability, Inc. All rights reserved.--> <script language="javascript1.2">var clickURL="http://wardsautoworld.com/ar/auto_audi_offer_torque/index.html";</script> <script language="javascript1.2" src="http://a449.g.akamai.net/7/449/1776/000/button.clickability.com/97676/button_1/button.js"></script><script language="JavaScript"> window.onerror=function(){clickURL=document.locati on.href;return true;} if(!self.clickURL) clickURL=parent.location.href; </script><nobr> </nobr> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <!--begin page--> <!--begin paragraph-->Aware that it needs to maintain the top-flight reputation of its quattro all-wheel-drive systems, one of Audi AG's chief vehicle engineers says it will introduce a highly advanced form of quattro later this year.
<!--end paragraph--> <!--begin paragraph-->Michael Dick, Audi's head of Total Vehicle and Chassis Development, tells Ward's<script language="Javascript" type="text/javascript">var count = ''; //GENERIC COUNT VAR count = 'square300' + ++squarecount300; //300x250 var a = Math.random(); var zzzzadslotzzzz= a * 100000; document.write('<scr' + 'ipt src=""http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/wardsautoworld.iclick.com/adtarget;abr=!webtv;page=auto_audi_offer_torque;su bss=;subs=;area=ar;site=wardsautoworld;kw=;sz=300x 250;tile=' + count + ';pos=' + count + ';ord=' + zzzzadslotzzzz + '></scr' + 'ipt>'); </script><script src="http://ad.doubleclick.net/adj/wardsautoworld.iclick.com/adtarget;abr=%21webtv;page=auto_audi_offer_torque; subss=;subs=;area=ar;site=wardsautoworld;kw=;sz=30 0x250;tile=square3001;pos=square3001;ord=25737.671 30834833"></script><noscript>http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/wardsautoworld.iclick.com/adtarget;page=auto_audi_offer_torque;subss=;subs=; area=ar;site=wardsautoworld;kw=;sz=300x250;tile=1; pos=1;ord=123456 (http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/wardsautoworld.iclick.com/adtarget;page=auto_audi_offer_torque;subss=;subs=; area=ar;site=wardsautoworld;kw=;sz=300x250;tile=1; pos=1;ord=123456)</noscript> the auto maker will incorporate so-called torque-vectoring technology into the next-generation quattro system slated to launch later this year in Europe for the all-new A5 coupe, to be quickly followed by the eighth-generation A4 sedan, which comes to the U.S. in early 2008. Both vehicles are built on the same all-new architecture.
<!--end paragraph--> <!--begin paragraph-->Torque vectoring takes all-wheel drive to another level by varying drive torque not just between front and rear axles but also between wheels on the same axle.
<!--end paragraph--> <!--begin paragraph-->By adjusting torque side-to-side, a higher degree of handling performance is achieved by delivering more torque to the outside wheel in a corner, turning the vehicle more sharply and precisely.
<!--end paragraph--> <!--begin paragraph-->Torque vectoring also is a way to enhance safety, in effect an “active” form of the brake system-based vehicle stability control systems now common.
<!--end paragraph--> <!--begin paragraph-->Dick says the next-generation quattro with torque vectoring will retain Audi's longstanding Torsen (torque-sensing) center differential to apportion torque between the front and rear axles, but adds a differential on the rear axle, incorporating electronically controlled clutches, to selectively apportion torque between the rear wheels.
<!--end paragraph--> <!--begin paragraph-->Dick says Audi began testing its torque-vectoring quattro system early last year, and engineers will be ready to launch the system with the new A5 and then in performance-oriented S and RS variants of the all-new A4 sport sedan.
<!--end paragraph--> <!--begin paragraph-->Dick says the torque-vectoring quattro system will deliver “driving dynamics as no Audi (has) before.”

[PeterJohn]

So its like ESP, only it uses acceleration instead of deceleration to pull a car straight in a corner. Acceleration is better. :bye2:

This would involve electronically controled differentials (controled via a slip clutch like Haldex) on both the front and rear diff? Or is it possible that even the Centre diff will trade in the Torsen mechanical lock for a Torque vectoring unit?

I know the Quattro racecars had Torsen LSDs all round. That means one Torsen centre diff, and two Torsen diffs front and rear. While up till now Audi roadcars had to settle for one Torsen center diff, and fake LSDs on the axles that use the brakes to manupulate the diff under speeds of 40km/h.
With the proper software, torque vectoring could be superior to even the all-Torsen racecars.

I don't think it's quite the same as the Honda. That car has no centre differential, while quattro has. The Honda is a Haldex like master/slave step-up, with the front axle being the master. While Quattro has a centre diff that devides between the front and rear in a parallel way.

Exciting news, for sure.

[Damienr8]

Wow thanks for the information guys. I have one question. Are there any weight saving benefits on this new quattro system compared to the old one? Is it going to be heavier?

[rqiu]

It probably will be a little bit heavier because of the new differential on the rear axle, shouldn't be too much. And I hope A5/S5 will use ASF.

[Damienr8]

It probably will be a little bit heavier because of the new differential on the rear axle, shouldn't be too much. And I hope A5/S5 will use ASF.

Damn, I wish they could have made some weight saving changes to quattro. It heavy as it is. I did a bit of searching before, on the weight of all wheel drive systems for Merc, BMw and Audi, but did not retrieve any valuable information. Can someone post some weight figures for the allwheel drive systems on say audi (both torsen and haldex differentials), subaru and say the AWD on the Lancer Evo. Im Curious.

[PeterJohn]

I looked it up once, and the average weight difference between FWD and Torson Quattro was about 70kg, IIRC. For an MKIV-platform Haldex quattro (first generation TT) it was 110kg, but that also included a mulitlink rear suspension, that the FWD TT didn't have.

But it shouldn't be too far from a hypothetical RWD Audi. The center and front diff are built into the gearbox, so most of the weight penalty comes from the shaft to the rear, and the rear diff. At least, that's what I assume.

BMW adds 125kg to a car when they install Xdrive, but that is a retrofit on a RWD car. They can't integrate the whole system into the gearbox, b/c the gearbox doesn't sit on the front axle like an Audi. BMW installs a second shaft that runs back toward the front of the car, alongside the gearbox and engine, where it hooks up to the front diff. In an Audi, this all happens inside the gearbox housing, which obviously saves some weight.

I estimate that the weight penalty of Quattro, versus a RWD solution, is no more than 50kg.

But the rotational mass and increased friction is a different matter. A Quattro drivetrain will always have greater drivetrain losses, versus a 2WD. I've heard 23% for a Quattro versus 15% for a bimmer.

The Torque vectoring diff shouldn't add that much weight, since it is an adaptation of the exsisting diff. And even so, it's the good kind of weight: low and on the rear.

[rqiu]

The Torque vectoring diff shouldn't add that much weight, since it is an adaptation of the exsisting diff. And even so, it's the good kind of weight: low and on the rear.

Well said, PeterJohn! :applause:

[Damienr8]

I looked it up once, and the average weight difference between FWD and Torson Quattro was about 70kg, IIRC. For an MKIV-platform Haldex quattro (first generation TT) it was 110kg, but that also included a mulitlink rear suspension, that the FWD TT didn't have.

But it shouldn't be too far from a hypothetical RWD Audi. The center and front diff are built into the gearbox, so most of the weight penalty comes from the shaft to the rear, and the rear diff. At least, that's what I assume.

BMW adds 125kg to a car when they install Xdrive, but that is a retrofit on a RWD car. They can't integrate the whole system into the gearbox, b/c the gearbox doesn't sit on the front axle like an Audi. BMW installs a second shaft that runs back toward the front of the car, alongside the gearbox and engine, where it hooks up to the front diff. In an Audi, this all happens inside the gearbox housing, which obviously saves some weight.

I estimate that the weight penalty of Quattro, versus a RWD solution, is no more than 50kg.

But the rotational mass and increased friction is a different matter. A Quattro drivetrain will always have greater drivetrain losses, versus a 2WD. I've heard 23% for a Quattro versus 15% for a bimmer.

The Torque vectoring diff shouldn't add that much weight, since it is an adaptation of the exsisting diff. And even so, it's the good kind of weight: low and on the rear.

Peter that was a very informative response. :0: I didn't think that the drivetrain loss was that much!. Well in that respect. I guess the 'weight saving' techniques will be excercised on the car frame, suspension, materials, etc. and not on the AWD system. Thanks again Peter

[andreadebi]

no news about new torque system on A5???

[Iceman]

Audi works intensively on the improved quattro drive, which for the introduction on the market of the A5 Sportback should be ready for production. The new all wheel system is simpler , has less internal friction and still more versatile. After the rear biased torque distribution the next driving dynamics system called Quattro Torque Vectoring (QTV) is now on the works. QTV regulates the torque distribution between the axles and between the rear wheels. A goal is more agility, more stability and an even better traction.

http://www.fourtitude.com/news/uploads/Industry_Tuner_News/ricardo1.jpg
http://www.fourtitude.com/news/uploads/Industry_Tuner_News/ricardo2.jpg

Hans.

[rqiu]

I hope it would be ready when the B8 A4/S4 is introduced.

[Leadfoot]

From pass experience this technology might make it into the RS5 first but will be held back on the standard range until a face-lift is called for.

But these is one occassion where I hope I am wrong.

[Damienr8]

From pass experience this technology might make it into the RS5 first but will be held back on the standard range until a face-lift is called for.

But these is one occassion where I hope I am wrong.

Humm, I would hope that the new quattro would be introduced on the B8 A4.

[RXBG]

doubtful. it would have been intro'd in the A5/S5 (which i thought- up till now- had it). therefore i think it'll debut in the new RS6.

and to piss me off, probably in the R8 V10.

[rqiu]

Well, if it makes it into the new RS6, it should be in the B8 S4 at least. Unless they only put it on RS cars, which will be silly.

[Leadfoot]

Well, if it makes it into the new RS6, it should be in the B8 S4 at least. Unless they only put it on RS cars, which will be silly.

Silly but most likely, the technology is very expensive at present so will in the near future be the reserve of the RS models. Like I say, think face-lift and you might see it in the A4/5, but I would put it pass being in the next A6 and above from the off. As for the RS6, it would be nice to see it in it, especially as from my understanding the technology definitely improves the nimbleness of big cars while also improving the throttle control of the chassis.

[RXBG]

rqui- i don't think it'd make sense for it to be in the S4 but not the S5, unless it'll be a running change on the S5, which wouldn't make sense, either. my $ 0.02 anyway.

it sucks- but it'll be a while before we see an audi with the new vector quattro, DSG, turbos, and LED headlights. the quintessential audi. mebbe the RS5.

[Leadfoot]

rqui- i don't think it'd make sense for it to be in the S4 but not the S5, unless it'll be a running change on the S5, which wouldn't make sense, either. my $ 0.02 anyway.

it sucks- but it'll be a while before we see an audi with the new vector quattro, DSG, turbos, and LED headlights. the quintessential audi. mebbe the RS5.

Agreed, if Audi was to give the A4 or S4 vector quattro then it would have been in the A5 or S5 as these are regarded in the public eyes as the sportier models and as such the driver's car and that it is where this system will really benefit.

CAR magazine stated that DSG in the S5 won't be available until 2010 which would be very unfortunate but there is rumours that Audi are looking to return to turbo technology in petrol engines (V6 Bi-turbo).

All of the above things might be in the RS5 if again the rumours are true about the Q5 will be launched with DSG and I have to sneaking suspicion that the Q5 will be the first model to get vector quattro as well.

[rqiu]

Sure, but QTV is not ready now. That was probably why it is not in S5. Obviously Audi couldn't delay the introduction of A5/S5. But QTV could be in the next S5 facelift or something. Remember that B7 S4 got the 40:60 torque split later in the production. Audi feels the pressure from others, so I reckon QTV will be available in B8 S4 if not in the first release, maybe the second production year.

[RXBG]

Sure, but QTV is not ready now. That was probably why it is not in S5. Obviously Audi couldn't delay the introduction of A5/S5. But QTV could be in the next S5 facelift or something. Remember that B7 S4 got the 40:60 torque split later in the production. Audi feels the pressure from others, so I reckon QTV will be available in B8 S4 if not in the first release, maybe the second production year.

i do agree with you on that front. i still expect that the QTV will debut in the RS6 (such a heavy car will need it, and may be the secret behind the outstanding handling it'll deliver that may dethrone the M5). from there i believe it will trickle down the line to all the models except the R8.

it might show up in the A4/A5 and A6 (face lift) in a couple of years, along with the RS5 (which i expect will show earlier in it's namesake's model life than previous RS models). for sure in the new A8.

[Leadfoot]

I had an interesting talk with the dealer the other day about Quattro3 or QTV which ever you want to call it and he is under the impression that it will be introduced into all of the models in the very near future and not just the top-end RS ones, regardless of the cost.

[rqiu]

I had an interesting talk with the dealer the other day about Quattro3 or QTV which ever you want to call it and he is under the impression that it will be introduced into all of the models in the very near future and not just the top-end RS ones, regardless of the cost.

If so, Audi has made the right decision again. Kudos to that!:wo:

[MR USER]

Any update on this topic? When will we be able to drive this new system and when?

[Leadfoot]

The new Quattro 3 (Torque vectoring system) is very near ready for launch. But which of the new models are due to get it first.

Any idea?

[Arslanoff]

A4 B8 or Q5 - they are gonna be the most popular Audi models in few next years, so one of them I think

[rqiu]

Agreed. Q5 will certainly have it.