A5 engines.....

[RXBG]

auto motor und sport reports:

same engines as current A4 with exception of the updates FSI V8 making 350 hp. this latter is disappointing. lets hope a surprise is coming in the next two weeks.


imo---------even if not, the lighter yet larger theme of the new TT should carry over to the A5. if it weighs a couple of hundred pound less than the current A4, the A5/S5 should gain some significant performance benefits a la TT.

[chewym]

I do hope for a 300 hp V6 and a 400 hp V8, but that doesn't seem likely. But if there is a 7 speed S-Tronic (DSG) that will help with performance and fuel economy greatly. MB had large gains in straight line performance with old engines but a new 7 speed box.

[Iceman]

The rumour is that the S5 will have between 370-390 hp out of the 4.2 V8 FSI engine.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

Hans, looking at where the front wheels are sited in relation to the engine I reckon the big v8 will do nicely in there and know what my S4 kicks like with only 344ps I reckon this newer version will be mightly impressive and almost the match of the RS4.

I there any word on what the construction is, steel, alloy or like the TT a mix of both?

[Iceman]

I there any word on what the construction is, steel, alloy or like the TT a mix of both?
No there is no word about it yet.
But i don't think it will be made out of alloy.

Hans.

[RXBG]

interesting that no DSG gearlever shots and no engine designations can be seen on the pics "leaked" except the well known 3.0 TDI.

i don't think this was a leak. audi custom designed what was to be leaked. the DSG is a foregone conclusion in this car. it was all intentional.

i would be extremely surprised if the base engine here in the US were not a HO 2.0T and as an upgrade, the roadjet engine. my big curiosity is the S engine. will it be a VL version of the current 350 hp FSI in the A6/A8 or will it be a VL FSI V8 with 4.5 Liters?

regardless, given that this car surely weighs less than the current S4 it will fly if it makes 30-40 hp more. especially with DSG.

i am curious about its size. it seems to be a bit bigger than the 335, but not by much more.

since the new A4 will be bigger than the current model the B8 A4/A5 really will not be that much different in size from one another.

audi is kicking butt.

[chewym]

Should be 185 inches long, or 5 inches longer than the 3 series coupe. I really don't think that it will have a 4 cylinder engine here in the states. Luxury buyers won't pay a premium for that. The 7 speed S-Tronic would help with performance a lot if the gears are made properly. I am thinking that a 300 hp V6 and a 400 hp V8 for the S5 are the way to go for Audi.

[rqiu]

my big curiosity is the S engine. will it be a VL version of the current 350 hp FSI in the A6/A8 or will it be a VL FSI V8 with 4.5 Liters?


Haven't heard about the 4.5L V8. My guess is a slightly tuned RS4 engine for around 380-400 hp. If they could use the Porsche 4.8L v8, that would be great.

[chewym]

Haven't heard about the 4.5L V8. My guess is a slightly tuned RS4 engine for around 380-400 hp. If they could use the Porsche 4.8L v8, that would be great.

Yes, time for Porsche to share. The Audi 4.2 V8 can get the horsepower but it is low on torque. With the Porsche 4.8 V8 and Audi Valvelift or the Porsche system you can get 380 horsepower (or more) and plenty of torque. Audi could also possibly make a 3.6-liter V6 out of that engine which would be the perfect engine for the regular A5.

[Leadfoot]

The thought of a 4.8L Porsche engine would be nice but I reckon this link-up will be one way for the near future at least. As for the 4.2L from Audi, there is little to stop it's increase to 4.5L which would offer the power and the torque without the need of help from Porsche and as for the 3.6L from Porsche, why use the one from them when it's a VAG engine to start with.

[Iceman]

Engines IMHO.

2.0T FSI 177 hp.
2.8 V6 FSI VL 210 hp.
3.2 V6 FSI 265 hp.
4.2 V8 FSI 350 hp.

Diesels:

2.0 TDI 170+ hp.
3.0 TDI 250 hp.

Hans.

[Charles DLF]

Engines IMHO.

2.0T FSI 177 hp.
2.8 V6 FSI VL 210 hp.
3.2 V6 FSI 265 hp.
4.2 V8 FSI 350 hp.

Diesels:

2.0 TDI 170+ hp.
3.0 TDI 250 hp.

Hans.

Don't care for diesels (i have tractors for that), but i think the 2.0T will be 200hp, why would it be detuned from the A3 or the A4???, and therefore probably the 2.8 will be around 225hp, and let's not forget the 3.6 V6 is out in the passat and should hit the Audi league some time soon :wo: , soooo i'd say 300hp 3.6 V6

[chewym]

I sure hope that Audi can enlarge the 4.2 V8 to 4.5 or more. Maybe they can enlarge the 3.2 V6 as well. A 4.5+ V8 with FSI and Audi Valvelift would make for one awesome S5 with around 380-400 hp and 350+ lb-ft of torque.

I don't think the Passat/Q7 3.6 V(R)6 will work as it is a West-East engine and not North-South. But that is how it is placed in the Q7 and it might just work. That would be the easiest way to get 300 hp from a V6. Someting that Audi needs to compete in the American market. I just don't think that the 3.2 FSI (without Valvelift) will cut it in the A5 when compared to the 335i and others.

[Leadfoot]

Engines IMHO.

2.0T FSI 177 hp.
2.8 V6 FSI VL 210 hp.
3.2 V6 FSI 265 hp.
4.2 V8 FSI 350 hp.

Diesels:

2.0 TDI 170+ hp.
3.0 TDI 250 hp.

Hans.

Hans,

You know I'm a fan of your work just not your warped mind. An A5 with 177hp, man that would hardly put the head off a pimple. Like Charles I think anything less than 200hp wouldn't cut it and to be truthful 230hp would be more like it.

2.0TFSi with 220hp
2.8FSi with 255hp (Valvelift) or 3.2FSi with 255hp at Launch
3.6FSi with 300hp
4.2FSi with 350hp at Launch
4.4FSi or 3.2L Bi-turbo with 380~400hp (Valvelift)(S5)

Diesels
2.0TDi with 185hp (this has been talked about for a while)
3.0TDi with 240hp (this engine is due for release in the Q7) at Launch
3.0T-TDi with 300hp (S5d)

Gearbox Options
6speed Manual - 6speed Auto and either a 6speed or 7speed DSG

[Iceman]

I sure Audi can enlarege the 4.2 V8 to 4.5 or more. Maybe they can enlarge the 3.2 V6 as well. I don't think the Passat/Q7 3.6 V6 will work as it is a West-East engine and not North-South. But that is how it is placed in the Q7 and it might just work. That would be the easiest way to get 300 hp from a V6. Someting that Audi needs to compete in the American market.
Audi have showed a 300 hp 3.2 litre V6 FSI Valve-lift engine in the Roadjet Concept.
The new 210 hp 2.8 litre V6 FSI Valve-lift is the little brother of that engine.
I don't think Audi will use a VW 3.6 VR6 FSI engine in de A4/A5.

Hans.

[RXBG]

i am with the iceman on this leadie. the S5 pics show a V8 badge. the only question therefore is as i have stated before. 4.2 VL or 4.5L VL.

[rqiu]

Let's hope it is the 4.5L V8 with 400HP!

[Iceman]

It would be a big surprice to me if Audi show a V8 with more than 4.2 litre. :D ;)
The 4511cc Porsche engine is not that good at all, it have 340 hp by 6000 rpm and 420 Nm of torque by 2500 rpm.
The 4163cc Audi V8 have 350 hp by 6800 rpm and 440Nm of torque by 3500 rpm.
In that case i take the Audi 4.2 litre V8 engine 24/7. :jlol:
btw the S5 have a 7000 rpm "redline" that say to me 350 hp V8 and maybe but just maybe a 360 hp V8.

Personaly i had hope for the 435 hp 5.2 litre V10 FSI (S6) engine for the S5.

Hans.

[rqiu]

Personaly i had hope for the 435 hp 5.2 litre V10 FSI (S6) engine for the S5.

Hans.

Iceman,

I think they would reserve the V10 for RS5 - unless they are putting a Bi-turbo V10 for RS5 :bigeyes:

I doubt it

[chewym]

It would be a big surprice to me if Audi show a V8 with more than 4.2 litre. :D ;)
The 4511cc Porsche engine is not that good at all, it have 340 hp by 6000 rpm and 420 Nm of torque by 2500 rpm.
The 4163cc Audi V8 have 350 hp by 6800 rpm and 440Nm of torque by 3500 rpm.
In that case i take the Audi 4.2 litre V8 engine 24/7. :jlol:
btw the S5 have a 7000 rpm "redline" that say to me 350 hp V8 and maybe but just maybe a 360 hp V8.

Personaly i had hope for the 435 hp 5.2 litre V10 FSI (S6) engine for the S5.

Hans.

Porsche now has the 4.8-liter V8 with 385 hp @ 6,200 RPM and 500 NM of torque. That engine would work perfectly in the S5. The Audi V10 would work even better, but I don't think Audi will put it in the S5. But it would be alright if they did. I think that Audi will have to increase the 4.2 V8 in the future, so the S5 could be a nice starting place. In the the current 350 hp V8 for the S5 will not be able to hold the competition for long.

I think that for the American market Audi will need a 300 hp V6. Audi could do that with a Roadjet like 3.2 V6 or with the VW sourced 3.6 V(R)6. The later is less likely. A regular 255 hp 3.2 won't be enough for Audi, I am sure the 7 speed DSG would help with performance for this engine, but it would still be behind the competition.

[rqiu]

Yes, the 4.8L V8 from Porsche will be an awesome choice. Let's see.

[Charles DLF]

personal opinion, no particular info on the matter, but i very much doubt a V10 will ever make it into the A5/S5/RS5. Lets all remember the car is supposed to be a competitor to the 3 series coupe, and that BMW wil never ever fit their V10 in the 3 series, therefore, audi has no reason to start spending millions on creating sucha monster, if it has no competition (appart from those crazy pple from Hartge)

Soooo, i beleive the RS5 will have the RS4s V8, and no more!

[Leadfoot]

The RS5 will most likely get the S8 version of the 5.2L v10, which would be spot on. Just enough to keep ahead of the M3 and the C63 but not enough the over shadow the RS6 in acceleration at least.

Regarding the S4 being a V8, how sure are we that these pictures are from the Audi, it wouldn't be the first time seeing a S-Line interior and thinking it's the S model, think TT S/Line. But anyway I would be very happy with a V8 S5 as long as the power is more than the last (S4), and if I remember right the last RS4 had 380hp and the current S4 is only 36hp below that which if things go the same this time will see the S5 with 380hp or there abouts.

[RXBG]

in the USA the order guide for 2008 states that the A5 will be available to order with a 3.2 and 4.2 motor. both with manual only. nothing about specs or DSG yet.

perhaps they will be the new 300 hp VL motor and a VL 4.2. further...........

nothing about the S5 yet. that means in the very minimum the S5 will have a 380-400 hp V8 (we know from pics b/c it has a V8 badge). why? b/c the 4.2 in the A5 will make 350 (at most) and the S5 needs to make that much more power in order to justify itself.

:)

[Leadfoot]

I'm at a lose as to why it has to be a V8 just because it red-lines at 7K. In my opinion it's one of many engines that could red-line at 7,ooo revs, a 3.2L v6 will easily reach to there and beyond with or without turbos.

This is not me doubting that is what it will be, more a case of me saying don't jump the gun.

[rqiu]

As RXBG said, if we believe the leaked S5 pic is genuine, then S5 is a V8.

http://www.fourtitude.com/gallery/albums//Audi/A5-S5-RS5/S5%20Coupe/Microsite%20Photos/005.jpg

[rqiu]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119676?imw=Y#2

Inside Line claims that the S5 4.2L V8 will have valvelift!


Secrecy continues to surround the S5's mechanical package, although it is rumored to pack an updated version of Audi's 4.2-liter V8 gasoline engine featuring FSI direct-injection technology and a new variable valve-timing system that goes under the name Valvelift. As with all S models, drive is sent to all four wheels via a six-speed manual gearbox and Audi's Quattro four-wheel-drive system, a Torsen-differential-based setup that nominally channels 40 percent to the front wheels and 60 percent to the rear wheels.

[Iceman]

Ok i'm not sure it's wise to say this but never the less.
The Audi S5 will be a M3 beater IMHO.
The rumour is :D that the New S5 will have a 4.2 liter V8 FSI Valve-lift engine.
The use of valve-lift will give the engine a power hike between 35-50 hp over the normal 350 hp 4.2 FSI V8.
Giving the S5 between 385 and 400 hp.
Further will the S5 have TVQ (torque vectoring quattro) in combination with a 6 speed manual, 6 speed Tiptronic or 7 speed S-tronic (DSG).
Also there will be use of alloy in important places.
But like i say it's a rumour. :D

Hans.

[rqiu]

I won't care too much whether S5 will beat the new M3 or not. It will drive well for sure - looks great too! Even let's say the new m3 is faster, so what? Cheers.:cheers:

[Leadfoot]

I doubt the S5 will beat the M3 in a drag race much in the same way as the S6 didn't beat the M5, but like the S6 the new S5 will still beat it's M rival for overall honours. Only this time with what Audi is giving the S5 over which is in the S6 is win will be even more convincing.

Plus for the S5
Better Traction
Better Handling
Safer at the limit
Better looks
Better interior
More Space
Better Comfort
Better Value
Plus for the M3
Better Acceleration

in other words 10 to 1 for the Audi.:D

[chewym]

Then this gets a bit confusing. The regular A5 gets the regular 350 hp V8 FSI, and the S5 a 380-400 hp V8 FSI with Valvelift. I think that the American market A5 should just have a 300 hp V6 to fight the competition and a 380-400 hp S5. Hoping for a valvelift V6 with DSG as that would have almost the same performance as the current S4.

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

the correct S5 Engine set-up has been rumored here. ;)

To give you a little hint and better view on the nice R8 like Headlights.

Qisha

[chewym]

Dear Friends,

the correct S5 Engine set-up has been rumored here. ;)

To give you a little hint and better view on the nice R8 like Headlights.

Qisha

I see Valvelift in the diagram. I win.

[rqiu]

I doubt the S5 will beat the M3 in a drag race much in the same way as the S6 didn't beat the M5, but like the S6 the new S5 will still beat it's M rival for overall honours. Only this time with what Audi is giving the S5 over which is in the S6 is win will be even more convincing.

Plus for the S5
Better Traction
Better Handling
Safer at the limit
Better looks
Better interior
More Space
Better Comfort
Better Value
Plus for the M3
Better Acceleration

in other words 10 to 1 for the Audi.:D

Maybe a little bit optimistic, but I like it. :dig:

[Leadfoot]

Dear Friends,

the correct S5 Engine set-up has been rumored here. ;)

To give you a little hint and better view on the nice R8 like Headlights.

Qisha

I am disappointed with what Fourtitude state the power will be (354hp) but the torque is right on the money (440Nm), a mixed bag really. If it is Valvelift this is a very small power increased for what is new technology, here's hoping it gives the power more responds and better economy.

[SFW]

http://www.audi.de/audi/de/de2/neuwagen/a5.html

[Iceman]

Technical wise another big dissapointment.
The S5 get only 354 hp, no Valve-lift, just a 10 hp power hike over the S4 engine.
Maybe they will use Valve-lift on the RS5 engine instead with a power hike of 35-50 hp to 455-470 hp

http://www.audi.de/etc/medialib/cms4imp/audi2/product/a5/s5.Par.0069.Image.jpg

For the A5 there will be a 3.2 V6 FSI with Valve-lift and only 265 hp and 330 Nm of torque.
And for the Diesel fans a 3.0 litre V6 TDI with 240 hp, 500 Nm of torque and a 0-100 Km/h time of 5.9 secs.

Hans.

[Subzero]

claimed 0-100km/h in 5.1 is not that bad.

[Iceman]

claimed 0-100km/h in 5.1 is not that bad.
If that time is for the S5 it is not bad.
The S5 gets 10 hp more then the S4 engine and is 0.5 secs faster then the S4 and only 0.3 slower then the RS4.

Hans.

[Leadfoot]

If it is able to post 5.1s to 100km/h then that should equate to a sub 5.0s to 60mph and a possible 11.5~12s 100mph time.:jlol:

But before we get carried away, the M3 should be able to post times of 4.8s and 10.5~10.8s respectively.

Now I could live with this difference in the knowledge that though I would have the slower car in a straight line it would be the better for everything else,.......................:vhmmm: OK sticky the M3 might this has the better steering feel if that is important to you. But the S5 isn't really the M3's rival in the true since of the word, that the privilege of the RS5 and as the S5 is going to be here at launch then one must assume the RS5 will be only a year or possible two away.

Enjoy your crown M3 as the quickest mid sized coupe because it only on loan.:hihi:

[roadrunner]

...
But before we get carried away, the M3 should be able to post times of 4.8s and 10.5~10.8s respectively...

With how many ponnys more under the hood (426hp? vs 354hp) and without quattro.

The S5 is doing very fine imho :jlol:

[Leadfoot]

With how many ponnys more under the hood (426hp? vs 354hp) and without quattro.

The S5 is doing very fine imho :jlol:

I don't think the M3 will end up with as much as 426hp, I personally think it won't have as the RS4 even. Something like 412hp will be closer to the mark.

Anyway it only my opinion as to how quick the S5 and M3 will be to 100mph. But after seeing virtual race from the data collected by Motortrend from they group test of S6 vs M5 vs E63, the M3 will have to be a lot better than the M5 to stand a chance against the S5 around a track and that even with it's power advantage.

But anyway there's a lot more to a great car than just speed and though it's only the pictures we are seeing at the minute there is no doubt that the A/S5 will be an amazing car to drive and own.

[Leadfoot]

Anyway it only my opinion as to how quick the S5 and M3 will be to 100mph. But after seeing virtual race from the data collected by Motortrend from they group test of S6 vs M5 vs E63, the M3 will have to be a lot better than the M5 to stand a chance against the S5 around a track and that even with it's power advantage.


Here's the clip of the virtual race

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/virtual/112_0702_luxury_sports_sedan_comparison_vrt/

Enjoy for all who haven't seen it.

[PeterJohn]

The S5 is a good package. The M3 will be a little faster, but it's also a totally different sort of car. Especially if they continue the trend set with M5. The 335i is more in line with the S5.
Audi has no bussiness building an M3. Audi builds Audis, no BMWs. Very strange that a lot of you want Audi to replicate the M3. If you want an M3, then buy an M3. Don't go to Audi and complain that they don't build a BMW.

Maybe if I was playing Gran Tourismo, I would pick the M3. But in real life, I wouldn't think twice about going to the Audi dealership for an S5.

I think Valvelift involves a lot more than swapping around the camshafts. Give Audi a break. These are the debut engines of their first big coupé since 15years (?). And it's already got as much juice as a Porsche 997.

I think that in the 3.2, Valvelift serves to broaden the torque curve (which can result in lower fuel consumption, due to fewer and sooner shifts). The benefit of Valvelift would only show up in the hp-rating, if it was used to increase the rpm range. But that would involve a lot more than moving the redline on the dashboard, and is not suited to the goal of the 3.2.

It's mated to the multitronic CVT, for instance. Not a performance transmission by any means.

6.1s from 0-100km/h, for the 3.2l Valvelift. Not bad. I think the 330i is half a second slower.

[Leadfoot]

PeterJohn,

It's not a case that we all want the Audi to be an M3, it's no a case that we want similar performance in an Audi package, all of these cars are fighting for the same customers.

We all have our favour teams by to football, Ice-Hockey etc. and we want them to be the better even though we really don't have anything to do with the running of them, it's Human nature. This is why the M3 is always centre of attention when talk turns to the S5/S4 etc. likewise the M5 with the S6/RS6, it's not that we want the Beemer version it's we just want the Audi to be better.

Most here see the 335i just below the S4/5 on the sporty ladder with the M3 just above and the RS4/5 just above that. I personally rate the 335i a more complete package than the current M3 and unless the M3 is less extreme in it's application then it too.

I am not unhappy with what Audi have given the 3.2L engine 265hp is roughly the same as the 330i only with more torque and over a boarder range, happy days. It quicker with delivery better in-gear times and will match or possibly better it's economy. I'm unhappy that the S5 wasn't given the Valvelift technology, maybe the current package is unsuitable for it, which would make me to hold back on the purchase in the belief they will be introducing some time soon. But then again how come the S5 with only 10hp more can be a whole 0.5s faster to 100km/h than the S4 unless it's lighter and by quite a margin.

Some are unhappy that they don't have a twin-turbo diesel 3.0 yet to complete with the 335d, but when you look at the performance of the 335d compared to the A5 3.0TDi it's the Audi which is the quicker, OK it's a manual and the 335d is automatic but even taking this into consideration the A5 will at most be only 0.1~0.2s slower if any. One kicks out 286hp and the other 240hp, the Beemer will beat it to 100mph because of the extra power but it's someting to think about.

This leads me to believe that the A5 is a lot lighter than the equivalent Beemer.