Porsche gains de facto control of VW

[tailpipe]

The State of Lower Saxony under the stewardship of Christian Wulff has given up the battle to prevent Porsche acquiring a 29.9% stake in VW, chairmanship and a number of seats on the Board. This now leaves Porsche free to increase its shareholding in VW from 27.4%. Reported in today's Financial Times, Wendelin Wiedeking will assume executive control of the entire group with Ferdinand Piech as a kind of honorary chairman above him. Given this situation, Porsche does not need to acquire any more shares in VW, although it could if necessary.

We said this was going to happen and now it has happened. Please note that this forum has an inside line well ahead of Audiworld and Fourtitude.

What this means for Audi's future strategy and product line-up is anyone's guess. It will be interesting to see how Porsche reacts to strong saels of the R8.

[Leadfoot]

Tailpipe,

Like all takeovers they seperate the wheat from the chaff. Porsche will drop any thing not making money and my friend that isn't Audi.

[RXBG]

The State of Lower Saxony under the stewardship of Christian Wulff has given up the battle to prevent Porsche acquiring a 29.9% stake in VW, chairmanship and a number of seats on the Board. This now leaves Porsche free to increase its shareholding in VW from 27.4%. Reported in today's Financial Times, Wendelin Wiedeking will assume executive control of the entire group with Ferdinand Piech as a kind of honorary chairman above him. Given this situation, Porsche does not need to acquire any more shares in VW, although it could if necessary.

We said this was going to happen and now it has happened. Please note that this forum has an inside line well ahead of Audiworld and Fourtitude.

What this means for Audi's future strategy and product line-up is anyone's guess. It will be interesting to see how Porsche reacts to strong saels of the R8.

very true. we are well ahead of the other sites with this info.

no matter how you cut it it is not ultimately good for audi. the porsche family puts pride ahead of business. their namesake brand will not long play second to any other. i doubt there will be an R8 successor.

F**K

[JavierNuvolari]

Sooner or later it was going to happen, as Leadfoot mentioned above Porsche will drop anything not making money....say Skoda...Seat, but what about Lamborghini, Bugatti and now that they're(Porsche) introducing the Panamera...what will happen to Bentley? I just hate uncertainty and now I feel that is what's going on in some of the groups brands.

Cheers,

Javier

[chewym]

I sure hope that Porshce leaves all premium products alone. Also Porsche should share its own technology as VW/Audi have given them plenty in the form of Cayenne/FSI/DSG in the future. Porsche can start with giving Audi its 4.8-liter V8 for use in S5 and other Audis. Porsche will also need to spend some money to get VW into top shape as stating changes is different from getting something done.

[tailpipe]

Okay, now for the next radical prediction based on leaked inside information.

It is looking increasingly likely that Audi will be floated as a separate independent company. I've already hinted at this. I didn't believe it was possible unless Porsche acquired a controlling interest in VW. Now that they have done this, I expect Audi and VW to go their separate ways.

Such a move would avoid long-term product overlap and give Audi greater freedom to design the cars it wants to make, like the R4. It would also give Volkswagen the cash it needs to recover and invest in alternatives to internal combustion engines.

I know this may sound unbelievable, but it has been discussed at board level. it is a question of timing, although when this will happens is unknown. my guess is after Porsche launches the Panamera and VW its new Scirocco, Golf and Passat models: 2009-2010.

[tazsura]

Tailpipe,

Do you think Audi could survive by itself? Or would they have to merge with another manufacturer? :vhmmm:

Taz :race:

[Leadfoot]

This sounds stupid, Audi in the UK is out selling Mercedes and BMW combined. It like selling your best goal scorer in a football team.:doh:

[tailpipe]

I think Audi can very easily manage by itself. It has every niche covered:

A2 supermini
A3 hatchback 3/ 5 door
TT junior spots coupe/ convertible
A4 compact executive sedan/ avant
A5 mid-range sports coupe/ convertible
Q5 mid-range SUV
A6 executive sedan/ avant
A7 executive 4-door coupe (Mercedes-Benz CLS, Porsche Panamera competitor)
Q7 Full-size SUV
A8 luxury executive sedan
R8 high-end sports car

This represents a very complete product range. And there is NO dog model in the range at all. Very, very impressive.

Once all of the above models have been launched, the jigsaw puzzle will be complete. Audi will not need VW or Porsche.

Its future success will hinge upon management. I think there is a good chance that Martin Winterkorn will go back to Audi once Wenderlin Wiedeking is settled as new head of combined Porsche-VW group. Winterkorn is a genius. So is Wiedeking. A combined VW-Porsche group would be too small to harness their individual talents.

[tailpipe]

This sounds stupid, Audi in the UK is out selling Mercedes and BMW combined.

This is an incorrect statement.

Besides, any flotation of Audi would not be a complete sale. It is highly likely that VW would retain a significant stake in Audi. It is financial engineering at its best. It de-risks for companies while avoiding product overlap.

Product overlap is the very thing that in addition to poor design and quality has killed GM, Ford and Chrysler.

[Lateknight]

Once all of the above models have been launched, the jigsaw puzzle will be complete. Audi will not need VW or Porsche.



Yeah right !!

Ever heard of purchase buying power.
This is why Porsche needed Volkswagen to stay close so they could protect their parts buying power through Volkswagen.

Think Audi would have the same clout on their own.

There is also the case of will Porsche want to lose control over what is a profitable part of the group and also who are now treading on the very toes Porsche themselves.

[Leadfoot]

The figures aren't released as yet, but they are correct.

What is a significant stake, 29.9%, 30%, 50% or what?

And the real reason for the demise of GM, Ford and Chrysler is the retail of the product in the States, a top of the range Audi etc costs well over 60~70% of the home grown counterparts. Ford is a quality product in Europe compared to the States and this is the same for the rest of them. For heaven's sake the best selling Ford in the States is a Pick-Up what does this not tell you about the market place the big three sell in.

They tried so hard to keep the foreign competition out of the States by selling their own product cheaper that it has back-fired.

[tailpipe]

A big change in auto manufacturing economics is the growth of large parts suppliers. In particular, the arrival of Dentsu, one of Toyota's and Honda's major suppliers, in Europe, is creating a seismic shift that will help German manufacturers compete with Japanese ones on equal terms re: quality and cost.

Audi needs only to invest in chassis architecture and engines, but already does this. It shares the Q7 and TT / A3 platforms with the Touareg and Golf respectively, while the R8 utilises the Gallardo's. A4 and A6 will share same platform. A8 is a bespoke aluminium chassis. A5 is same as A6, as is A7.

Long-term, it looks like Audi will develop three primary platforms:

Small car (A1/ A2/ A3/ TT/ R4) (presently shared with VW)
Mid car (A4, A5, Q5, A6, AllRoad) - not shared with VW
Exec car (A7, Q7, A8) - not shared with VW

This is very "do-able" on an independent basis, look at BMW.

[Leadfoot]

Tailpipe,

I was under the impression that the next A3 will be using the same chassis as the A4/5/Q5/6/8. The A1/2 will use a different chassis but I don't know what it will be.

As for the next Q7, logically it will use a stretched version of the Q5.