My next brake discs and pads: What is your choice?

[LU-RS6]

Hi guys,


After my 60.000km maintenance my mechanic is advising me new brake discs and pads somewhere in the next 10.000km. As I drive quite alot of km's (count with about 60.000km annually), mainly Highway, what would be your choice to buy?
I'm spending a lot of time in Germany so the brakes should hold heavy usage. Not really doing a lot of trackdays, but I'm not sure whether that would influence the choice. Basically I just want better brakes than the standard ones because everyone knows by now that they are absolutely not sufficient. I'm okay with spending some cash but not too excessively (not sure what ceramics would cost)

I've read several threads here about ceramics, movits, brembos etc but the only thing they did is making me indecisive. :confused:
It would be very nice to hear your opinion together with some details and possibly a price excl assembly.



Many thanks
LU-RS6 :race:

[gregoryindiana]

The author was a guy named Nordschleife; he had credibility. He recommended Movit.

Re: great thread

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally posted by Aronis
I have a question!

What is the advantage of the free floating front rotor?

It seems to have more disadvantages due to the lack of heat dissipation by contact with the hub.

Thus I thought that just changing the front break setup to the movit setup would have a significant effect on brake longevity! This would allow us to avoid the more difficult rear change over with the extra caliper! and more money to boot!

Sounds like Audi should bite the bullet and offer brake replacement with Mov'it or similar for easy money for those who have paid $85,000 for a car with such a Achilles Heal.

Mike

Mike

Free floating rotors

The advantage of mounting the rotors on isolating pins is that it stops the heat getting into the hub. Why is this a good thing?Well, for example, some BMW M3s have had front wheel bearing problems which have caused the wheels to run out of true. Research showed that the problem lay in the bearings heating up to such an extent that the grease in the bearing became too thin, allowing too much movement within the bearing. Stopping the heat going into the wheel bearings fixed this problem.
Now good ideas for the track are not always so good for the street. Race teams don't mind swapping rotors after each race, about the cheapest thing they have. When we drive a road car swapping rotors every 4000 km is not an option.
Good track implementations incorporate an efficient air delivery system so that the air can get into the space between the two rotor surfaces at the inner circumference. In the Audi implementation, they neglected to do this.

Audi's Rear Brake Implementation

This really stinks. The root of the problem is the bean counter friendly design which allows them to connect the callipers to both the foot brake system and to the hand brake system. Now these two systems have completely different requirements. The upshot is that the rear brake does very little work. Essentially, all Audis have unbalanced braking systems, the compromises required to cope with this mean that in a number of cases, most noticably the UrS4, there is not a great deal to be gained by upgrading the rear brakes.

However, and this is the good news, modern Audis do benefit from efficient rear brakes.

The modern braking, ABS/EBD and ESP systems positively welcome the additional retardation capacity of the rear axle, and make use of it. So with a good installation absolute stopping distances will decrease. On an RS6 with 19 inch wheels and sticky summer tyres, I do not trigger the ABS system in the dry carrying out stops which are in excess of 12 m/s^2. This is really serious stopping, rarely experienced on the street. Looking at the rear rims, you can see the brake dust here, showing that for once, they are doing their share of the work.

There is another reason why upgrading the rear brakes is a good idea if you like driving on the track or have a favorite mountain pass you like to run early in the morning. The modern Quattro Audis have something called an Electronic Lock, which opereates at speeds up to 50 mph (less on the FWD cars), this and the ESP can cause extreme overheating of the rear brake system. Without modification, you cannot turn off the ESP system completely, even if you have turned it off, it will reactivate in 'extreme' situations. So your rear brakes are doing a great deal of work, the greater their heat capacity, the more likey it is that they will continue to operate as the designers intended the system (note the use of system rather than brakes) to perform.


There is another reason to upgrade the rear brakes - the stock ones will look so puny once you have done the fronts.
HTH
R+C

[nene]

MOV'IT brakes is a great choice. Much less brake dust...much much much much less. Can't say yet they last longer than stock, but I think they will, for street use.

[LU-RS6]

Thanks both for replying so fast.

I have this feeling my choice will be movit's, I'm reading movit everywhere on every forum :bow:

My next questions:

1. I have 18" winterwheels and 19" summerwheels. What size disc should I consider or what size do you recommend? On their application list on the website I am seeing 380 x 32.

2. What price can I expect for front / front&rear?

3. Do you still experience break squealing with the movit's mounted?


I will be installing the paeton brakecoolers, so that will also address the brake temperature problem a bit.


Best regards
LU-RS6 :race:

[chilli]

I have the Movit ones, only in front.
really happy with them, i went for them to Auto Tune Heinz again.
don't forget i only have the RS4 b5

[LU-RS6]

Well, the RS6 is weighing at least 200kg more so you can imagine what hell I'm going through with those standard brakes..

[jonas21]

I need to replace mine soon, too. Did you really manage to drive 60.000km without only 1 set of pads/discs? I have to replace mine every 20.000km....
I am looking at MovIT, really many good comments about them. Brembo might be an option too, but i guess i'll go for MovIT.
I see that there are 2 types of MovIT brakes for the RS6, one with 4 pistons and one with 6 pistons. Which one are you MovIT guys using?

[LU-RS6]

I need to replace mine soon, too. Did you really manage to drive 60.000km without only 1 set of pads/discs? I have to replace mine every 20.000km....



No they were changed at 30k too. I think fairly normal with this car. IMO the movits might be gone in 30K too, but at least giving me good braking performance and not like the crappy standard ones.

[Aronis]

I've seen more and more cars with the rotor's on 'pins' separating them from the hub....

The brake job on an RS6 takes very little time with a good mechanic, so the parts are the big cost. My front rotors were changed last time I had the car in for service. I requested that they 'check them' and after less than 2 hours all was finished INCLUDING the new front rotors....so it's not an expensive job by HOURs of man power cost..just the parts. So the change to Movit vs Staying stock in the long run may be a 'brake' even (LOL).

My new rotors are just that, new, and the noise is terrible...embarassing too, even after trying the usual bedding procedure...but they work just fine...I'll live with the squeek.....

Mike

[LU-RS6]

So the change to Movit vs Staying stock in the long run may be a 'brake' even (LOL).

:D:D

Mike, correct me if I'm wrong, but your new rotors are thus not movits but the stock ones? I'm a bit puzzled sorry. :confused:

Regret to hear they squeal so hard...do you also experience the squealing when the brakes are still cold?

Best regards
LU-RS6 :race:

[nene]

They have front and rear setups that will fit under 18 or 19" wheels. Since you run 18" for Winter, I'd stick with something that fits under them.

My original thread with contact info (http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9444)

[chilli]

I have the 6 pistons , it is still possible to put the 18" winterwheels

[skiwi]

i would address the heat issues first, then see if the brake upgrde is cost effective.

i do not believe that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the front brakes other than cooling (simple experience says that the first few hard stops are fine, but after that fade sets in). so i personally will begin on the phaeton cooler upgrade in 10 days. i will be using both the phaeton and rs6 backing plates. preference is to modify the rs6 backing plates for the phaeton air-duct. if this proves too hard i will use the complete phaeton setup modified to fit.

[gjg]

Movit 370 kit will fit over 18" winter wheels (I use bbs, no spacers), 6 piston kit. Driving in Germany this is notable improvement specially in high speed breaking... :0:

[LU-RS6]

I have just received the following prices from Belgium incl. VAT:

370mm 6 pistons front : 5.191,- EUR
322mm 4 pistons rear : 2.783,- EUR
assembly: 363,- EUR


Are these competitive prices? I hope that these brakes together with the phaeton brake addons will improve braking possibilities to a much higher level as it is a fairly large sum for brakes.


Best regards
LU-RS6

[steve]

I have just received the following prices from Belgium incl. VAT:

370mm 6 pistons front : 5.191,- EUR
322mm 4 pistons rear : 2.783,- EUR
assembly: 363,- EUR


Are these competitive prices? I hope that these brakes together with the phaeton brake addons will improve braking possibilities to a much higher level as it is a fairly large sum for brakes.


Best regards
LU-RS6


Which company in Belgium did you ask price, if I may ask?

[LU-RS6]

Autotuneheinz, they are the official dealer of Movit in Belgium. I have heard from user chilli he is very satisfied with their service and expertise (he is driving B5 RS4 with front movits and has had his engine tuned to I believe 420HP).


Best regards
LU-RS6

[jimmy94507]

i would address the heat issues first, then see if the brake upgrde is cost effective.

i do not believe that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the front brakes other than cooling (simple experience says that the first few hard stops are fine, but after that fade sets in). so i personally will begin on the phaeton cooler upgrade in 10 days. i will be using both the phaeton and rs6 backing plates. preference is to modify the rs6 backing plates for the phaeton air-duct. if this proves too hard i will use the complete phaeton setup modified to fit.

I added the Phaeton backing plate (modified) and the ducts. The RS6 backing plate is not very sturdy and you would have to weld on the angle bracket to attach the Phaeton ducts. It was easier to cut away some metal from the Phaeton backing plates, especially since I have a friend with a plasma cutter.
The ducting really helps. We're testing some better vented front rotors for track days.

Regards, Jim

[skiwi]

jim, thanks for the note. i've just received the phaeton parts so will have a look at the work required this week-end. i personally believe that this will solve the major issue with the standard setup. shared with the rs4 i might add...

[LU-RS6]

Mine are getting istalled this weekend...This together with movits should be one of the best solutions on the market for the RS6 braking problems.
Still I am now hearing Brembo is offering very good brakes too for about the same price as movits, but they ought to be even better. Anyone have any info on this?

[7:53 RS6]

Mine are getting istalled this weekend...This together with movits should be one of the best solutions on the market for the RS6 braking problems.
Still I am now hearing Brembo is offering very good brakes too for about the same price as movits, but they ought to be even better. Anyone have any info on this?

Ever herd of placebo?
It never hit you that the Brembo caliper that is stock on Rs6, is by all means up for the task to deliver brakingpower that is neaded, togheter whit the big stock rotor. Stock pads and fluid are not up for it, if one overbrake the car, but thats not the same as bad brakes.

By the way did you know Movit got some calipers from Brembo some time go. Sure it did read Movit on them, other loggo label:applause:
And thers nothing wrong whit the brakes on RS6 by the way. Fit pads and fluid to match your driving (braking) and thats fine.

There are many reasons to uppgrade things on a car, but please dont motivate it whit stock brakes is shit. What do Movit know anyway about brakes, that Brembo dont, or Audi Quattro enginers. Dont fool yor selvf, aftermarket are big bussines.

[skiwi]

Still I am now hearing Brembo is offering very good brakes too for about the same price as movits, but they ought to be even better. Anyone have any info on this?

unless i am very much mistaken, the movit's are brembo's....

[gjg]

Movit's kit is not Brembo - at least not the 370/6 I have .... :idea:

[LU-RS6]

Ever herd of placebo?
It never hit you that the Brembo caliper that is stock on Rs6, is by all means up for the task to deliver brakingpower that is neaded, togheter whit the big stock rotor. Stock pads and fluid are not up for it, if one overbrake the car, but thats not the same as bad brakes.

By the way did you know Movit got some calipers from Brembo some time go. Sure it did read Movit on them, other loggo label:applause:
And thers nothing wrong whit the brakes on RS6 by the way. Fit pads and fluid to match your driving (braking) and thats fine.

There are many reasons to uppgrade things on a car, but please dont motivate it whit stock brakes is shit. What do Movit know anyway about brakes, that Brembo dont, or Audi Quattro enginers. Dont fool yor selvf, aftermarket are big bussines.


First of all I'd like to state that if you have any contributions to my original question, I have not seen you delivering any answers. First time I hear you about changing only pads and brake fluid.
Second of all, I never really stated the brakes were "shit", I've stated one time that they were crappy and for the rest I mainly stressed the fact that for MY driving style they are insufficient. If you are driving normal and always attend the speedlimit, the brakes are absolutely fine. But I have regular journeys through Germany easily driving +200km/h average for multiple hours. And as good as German drivers are, you will always find an idiot who thinks his mirrors are optional.

I hear your point about there being no reason for Quattro or Brembo delivering shitty brakes to the RS6. However there can be the issue of money. These days every single euro counts, especially in the car industry where they are suffering from very small margins.
Believe me, I do not WANT the movits, if I'd want to spent 6-8000 EUR I'd be in the Carribean, and not spending it on brakes for my car.
But it sure seems like I need them, to be on the safe side for my driving, and it also seems that besides the phaeton air scoops I have not heard any decent alternatives besides movits.


Best regards
LU-RS6

[SpinEcho]

While I will concede that a pad and fluid change may improve the efficiency of the stock braking, anyone who says the fundamental design of the stock brakes is sound has their head in the sand.

There are a number of problems with the stock brakes that have been thoroughly discussed over the years in this forum, many of which were nicely summarized by Nordschleife:

• there is no cooling air directed onto these brakes (Audi clearly admitted this when they put NACA ducts in the RS4)
• the pads in the 8 piston calipers are too small and overheat too quickly
• the discs do not vent adequately due to their vane design
• the floating radial pin design was used to save the wheel bearings but the result is no heat transfer out of the disc and into the hat/wheel
• the rear brakes are ineffective due to the integrated handbrake design and do not do their share of the work

So what's the solution? Well, the Phaeton ducts are intriguing, as cooling airflow might render the rest of these design flaws irrelevant. But I've yet to hear any convincing testimonials from people who installed them.

So the alternative is aftermarket brakes like Mov'its. I will be installing my Stasis/Alcon front brakes this spring and after my first track day I'll report back...

:thumb:

[skiwi]

errr. then if you haven't heard any "convincing testimonials" as to the brake cooling mod, why no do it yourself and create your own testinonial???

i can tell you with absolutely certainty, the mod will cost you less than 100 eur - a sum which wouldn't cover shipping for the movit's...

[SpinEcho]

skiwi, it would be nice to hear what you think of your Phaeton ducts once they are installed...

I decided to go with different front brakes awhile ago for several reasons: my previous experiences with good aftermarket brake upgrades, testimonials on this site and Audiworld, and my impression that the Phaeton ducts were not an easy fit. Perhaps some will see this as a waste of money. Perhaps I will realize this in the spring - and then again, maybe not ;) .

And I sincerely hope those who have chosen other options are satisifed with the end result. :rs6kiss:

[skiwi]

well, you pays your money and makes your choice.

as you yourself have stated, the issue is cooling to improve resistance to fade. so i'm just puzzled as to why you've not tried the obvious solution first. but, hey, it's your choice, and your money. just don't try and tell me that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the rs6 brakes. because there isn't. as a small aside, if the issue is cooling then all an alternative fitment is going to do is probably cook your hubs (which btw are clearly not intended for high heat, hence the rotor design).

me, i've upgraded 2 of my previous car's brakes (20v ur-q and rs2), using alcon and brembo to replace the oem fitments. i am pretty familiar with the trade-offs and benefits of brake upgrades. imo all the rs6 needs is better cooling to improve fade performance for those doing high speed or track work. for the vast majority of others - who will never go faster than 160km/hr with the car (or risk a lengthy jail sentence) - save your money for other things...

[7:53 RS6]

While I will concede that a pad and fluid change may improve the efficiency of the stock braking, anyone who says the fundamental design of the stock brakes is sound has their head in the sand.

There are a number of problems with the stock brakes that have been thoroughly discussed over the years in this forum, many of which were nicely summarized by Nordschleife:

• there is no cooling air directed onto these brakes (Audi clearly admitted this when they put NACA ducts in the RS4)
• the pads in the 8 piston calipers are too small and overheat too quickly
• the discs do not vent adequately due to their vane design
• the floating radial pin design was used to save the wheel bearings but the result is no heat transfer out of the disc and into the hat/wheel
• the rear brakes are ineffective due to the integrated handbrake design and do not do their share of the work

So what's the solution? Well, the Phaeton ducts are intriguing, as cooling airflow might render the rest of these design flaws irrelevant. But I've yet to hear any convincing testimonials from people who installed them.

So the alternative is aftermarket brakes like Mov'its. I will be installing my Stasis/Alcon front brakes this spring and after my first track day I'll report back...

:thumb:
Do report, but please the feel is not more than placebo. If not you hook up a V-box and make a real test what braking G you pull etc on the to diffrent brake set ups(same tiers) As well make sure the stock set up got the same fluid and pads material compound as the Movit or stasi/Alcon. But sure then its not so fun due to you will not see any big variations at all regarding braking abillities:thumb: Brakes are only marketing and sold on you feel, and what makes the biggest diffrens in feel is to brake diffrent pads!!!!!!!!! Movit got other pads of course in their kit, rather than RS6 stock that only got a softer pagid street pad!!!!!!!!

Quattro Gmbh have made the selutions for you, please dont make your selv a roket enginer, you are not, more likely Audi is they made RS6 deliver braking power whit these big race BREMBO 8 pistons calipers! Please dont invent the wheel once again, you are no way close to succses!. You realy quistion their ability for sure, even Quattro have the money, the testequitment, the enginers etc, still you question them and ther experienced test drivers. Its accually their test drivers that in the end see to it that we get a product that is working. According to you they dident do their job....rather you do it better than them while you sit and wright at this forum:hahahehe: Its funny to read what you say about the brakes. Still you forgot the best part, about the sweep area is less on stock vs Movits, bla, bla. Some one had a long talk to get nord in to this kit, his good friend at Movit:rotflmao: Clearly you and some swallowed the bait whit out even testing the car out whit the propper frictoin materal pads and fluid. The pads are to small, even there are plenty of pads in just one caliper, and ther are not to small pads even Movits are bigger, thats not the issue. The only thing it thats it is pagid streetcompound material pads stock. Thats the only thing, but thats normal, these pads dont take heat. Swoop pads and fluid and save you dollars.

But sure then you cant stand on the parking lot and bragg about that the stock brakes dont take your driving, and that is a downside for some apparently.
Well i have to say you and Nord, thats rubbish what you say. One could almost belive you are making yourselv importent. My CSL has the same hub bearing, and it have no air cooling ducts what ever and it setts of loads of higher braking G than RS6 whit its street tiers do.
It accually fun to see that peopel fool them self whit Movits or what ever. Its just Big bussines. Kind of like at present Movit got a new kit to new RS4, well i could understand pepol buy for other reason rather than new RS4 stock brakes is shit, it ludacris, belive me whatever the brakes put on new cars, aftermakets like Movit will always fool money from some like you at the end. Like the same brakes is stock on Gallardo, doing the same god job as they do on RS6 as well New RS4, street pads suffer but its a easy fix as well fluid. Or why you dont buy the new half meater ceramic rotor thats stock on Bently continetal, im sure some one would talk to you at the pit about that uppgrade.
Kind of like when a normal hobby driver buy a 10.000 euro Öhlins adjustebel chassi kit. Öhlins is glad marketing paid of, they kind of :D and wounder what god that kit will do on this hobbydrivers car anyway:applause: The same way Movit will react while selling a new Movit kit to a brand new RS4, as if the brake kit on new RS4 is bad:doh: Please motivate your big aftermarket uppgrades whit somting else, rater than stock is bad, its not.

Last let me ask all of you that uppgrde and tose of yu saying stock is shit, have you like a engine dyno somthing to prove the far better braking power? There are a reason why you dont got somthing to prove that you uppgrade is better, its as simpel as its not better, hard to put out numbers on somthing like that:applause:

And aparently there are no nead to even sett up a test to acually see, cuse the peopel eat up thing they like to belive, fore some thet tune the engine they like to see before and after, was it a diffrense, but paid 7000euro on brakes like Movit more or less same as Brembo anyway thy dont bother whit any print if its accualy any gain, rater they trust on feel, and once again to brake diffrent pads is very diffrent somthing to think on before spending 7000euro. Whit same fricton material pads and fluid as say movit supply whit their kit on the stock kit, well thats is more or less where you feel your 7000 euro go then. Not all are eager to see this in the open. Rather they defend their superior new brake kit, even it only proven to work better by the feel they get:doh: Gee only paying 7000 euro give you the feel its great, dont it. But sure lets say i agree, its better(i dont) but how much better is it then?, well nobody know, thats the fun part, but still it sell god.

[LU-RS6]

Dude, RELAX :brag: :brag:

All this text about me thinking how smart I am and thinking that I am better than Quattro engineers.. where on earth have I said that???
I'd appreciate it if you do not put words in my mouth I haven't said. Otherwise there is no point in discussing this any further. Where the hell did I say that I question Quattro's engineers and testdrivers experience or abilities? The only thing I said, is that they did not install better brakes out of an economical perspective, and that for my driving style the brakes are not good enough, read crappy. If I'd want to drive moderately and not accelerate/brake hard, I'd buy me a Prius.

We should make a poll, asking RS6 driving members whether they are satisfied with the standard brakes or not.

If you wish to be agitated just because I am looking for better brakes as I do not wish to exchange them every 10.000kms, be my guest. But unless you come up with some concrete suggestions like what pads/fluids to get, I better stop discussing this. Many members advised Mov'it brakes, and I rely upon you guys for advice. If you claim that all those users have been influenced and tricked by Nordschleife, that is a bold statement and I welcome you to confirm it.

[SpinEcho]

7:53 RS6, you need to take a step back and grab some perspective - this is an internet forum, not a blood feud.

I'll be the first guy to admit I'm not an automotive engineer or a race driver. All I know is I don't like the stock brakes. And rather than post a lot of histrionic ravings and insults at someone I don't even know, I tried to calmly and sensibly list my reasons, in the hope that further intelligent discussion would follow. Discussion that would be useful to people who come here for information and civilized debate, but then clearly you are here for another reason entirely. You talk about me standing around the parking lot bragging the brakes can't take my driving. From where I'm sitting, you're the one who's desperate to prove something...

[7:53 RS6]

Dude, RELAX :brag: :brag:

All this text about me thinking how smart I am and thinking that I am better than Quattro engineers.. where on earth have I said that???
I'd appreciate it if you do not put words in my mouth I haven't said. Otherwise there is no point in discussing this any further. Where the hell did I say that I question Quattro's engineers and testdrivers experience or abilities? The only thing I said, is that they did not install better brakes out of an economical perspective, and that for my driving style the brakes are not good enough, read crappy. If I'd want to drive moderately and not accelerate/brake hard, I'd buy me a Prius.

We should make a poll, asking RS6 driving members whether they are satisfied with the standard brakes or not.

If you wish to be agitated just because I am looking for better brakes as I do not wish to exchange them every 10.000kms, be my guest. But unless you come up with some concrete suggestions like what pads/fluids to get, I better stop discussing this. Many members advised Mov'it brakes, and I rely upon you guys for advice. If you claim that all those users have been influenced and tricked by Nordschleife, that is a bold statement and I welcome you to confirm it.

Dude one you, this one was not to you, it was to spin anyway, and kind of to all that say the stock RS6 brembo kit is bad, its far from.
We have accually mentioned this long time ago as well. What it boiled down to was the few saying the brembo stock setup on RS6 was bad, well they could not rely explain the symtoms when i asked what was so bad whit them. Rather they repeted what some one else wrote, just like Spin did. And i agree the wrighting sound briljant, my RS6 as you got in your avantar never faild. Exept once, my bad, r-tiers stock pads and to much braking. While a had my RS6 avant(the avantar of yours)It was on track all times pretty much.
My all new Pirelli P zero rosso dident last more than about 3000km, so guess what i did use my car as well you know.

Put on propper pads and you dont nead to have crappy brakes any longer(fluid) at least have the sense to do it before Movit fool you on more or less the same brakes that are alredy on the car, that means you paid for your brakes twice then.
There are other reason for buying Movit or what ever, rather than they outpreform the stock, hardly in a big way, like 7000euro way. But one get a personall image of the car, and thats nice, why not motivate the uppgrade whit that, rater than stock is so bad. Could ther rely be so massive diffrense between the stock vs mov, hook up a V-box then and lets see the huge advantage in brake preformance, rather than just go on feel that its that much better..
But please do tell me what makes your brakes preform so crapy, what is the symtoms, how and when do it accour and how bad is it....like do you have braking power or dont you. Is it dangerus? tell me. Have you even tried other friction material pads and fluid on you car?
What ever the brakes even new 15 piston calipers and almost half meter rotor, and yes one can outbrake one self, whit out any problem even whit this kit. What ever the brakes, if one brake to late, its to late, what ever the brakes. But hey thats a personal drivers related failuer, and one cant blame brakes for it.:hahahehe: There are peopel constant outbraking them self on regular trackdays, (that means leaving the track, at speeds not rely on purposse, flying out on the grass or amcro), hardly the brakes fault!! One cant make the laws of physics to just not exist, even one got the biggest brakes there is.

[LU-RS6]

But please do tell me what makes your brakes preform so crapy, what is the symtoms, how and when do it accour and how bad is it....like do you have braking power or dont you. Is it dangerus? tell me. Have you even tried other friction material pads and fluid on you car?


First of all I want to note I am an absolute nitwit when it comes to mechanical questions, in that view I'm like Bam Margera about his Ferrari: "I just drive the damn thing"

So that is reason nr.1 why I am asking you guys about your experience and advice in order to upgrade the brakes.

My goddamn passat tdi was braking harder than this thing, that is what first made me realise it :D
No, seriously now, it does feel dangerous and it also is. When braking hard I think I can feel that the discs are somewhat warped because the steering wheel starts vibrating a bit. Plus I get a humming sound as if there was a loading jet engine in my car. I try to anticipate traffic even more than I used to, usually I can almost smell whether a car or a truck is about to move in my lane. But sometimes you just have to really slam the brakes, espcially in Germany where the difference in speed between you and a truck is higher than in other countries. I'm spending quite a lot of time there and braking hard is unavoidable unless you are driving max 120 km/h, and still then it is possible when there's an unexpected traffic jam or sth.

[7:53 RS6]

7:53 RS6, you need to take a step back and grab some perspective - this is an internet forum, not a blood feud.

I'll be the first guy to admit I'm not an automotive engineer or a race driver. All I know is I don't like the stock brakes. And rather than post a lot of histrionic ravings and insults at someone I don't even know, I tried to calmly and sensibly list my reasons, in the hope that further intelligent discussion would follow. Discussion that would be useful to people who come here for information and civilized debate, but then clearly you are here for another reason entirely. You talk about me standing around the parking lot bragging the brakes can't take my driving. From where I'm sitting, you're the one who's desperate to prove something...


Well sorry if im a bit loud in my way. But what do you think of helping peopel whit when you more or less post some wrighting nord put up, and that wrighting more or less make some belive the stock set up is not working at all. Well they get not so much helped, if they are convinsed that stock set up more or less cant stopp the bloody car. These things he wrote, its common marketing, to market more or less the same brake kit again in a very impressive way.
Lets think of it....there are allredy a all new Movit setup to new RS4, do you belive new RS4 nead any better brakes in the first place.? Are not the stock ones big and bad as it is? And what gain do you belive you get if throw new RS4 kit and buy new Mov RS4 kit. Its big bussines aftermarket. And sure Mov may look more nice and all, and that is fore sure a fair reason to buy, i agree on that. But how much diffrens in brake capacity is it vs stock on propper racepads(that handel heat as well fluid), or longlivety. And if any, how many on the bord tap in to this world of fingertips feel to rely know?
There are many god reasons to buy other brake set up for RS6 new RS4, but hardly a inteligent motivation to say stock set up is so bad. All other motivations are just fine. Like i love Movits, they look the shit:dig: Or why not buy Movit, i got loads of cash:dig: Or i got a personal car now, it not like every other:dig: etc, etc. That would be just fine, then. But when some bang them self on the chest saying well i got Mov due to stock is shit, well then they clearly show they dont got a clu, its not like they got a dyno of the brake preformance or anything(rather placebo). And yes im keen on helping peopel, thats why i try to prove my thing. I would like peopel to understand that there are relly no nead for a extra 7000-9000 euro brake kit on RS6 or new RS4 they alredy got a kit to handel the pressure. But as always one nead to fit pads and fluid to match the driving. Sure the fricton material in stock street pads are not to glad about the extra heat trown in to them, so why bother to have them then. Horses for courses or somthing.

[skiwi]

No, seriously now, it does feel dangerous and it also is. When braking hard I think I can feel that the discs are somewhat warped because the steering wheel starts vibrating a bit. Plus I get a humming sound as if there was a loading jet engine in my car.

that is certainly not normal. have you have the brakes checked? it looks as though you have warped rotors, if so, thay can be skimmed if they are within limits, otherwise need to be replaced. if you are still under warranty, then so much the better. rotors and pads are normally replaced together....

[7:53 RS6]

First of all I want to note I am an absolute nitwit when it comes to mechanical questions, in that view I'm like Bam Margera about his Ferrari: "I just drive the damn thing"

So that is reason nr.1 why I am asking you guys about your experience and advice in order to upgrade the brakes.

My goddamn passat tdi was braking harder than this thing, that is what first made me realise it :D
No, seriously now, it does feel dangerous and it also is. When braking hard I think I can feel that the discs are somewhat warped because the steering wheel starts vibrating a bit. Plus I get a humming sound as if there was a loading jet engine in my car. I try to anticipate traffic even more than I used to, usually I can almost smell whether a car or a truck is about to move in my lane. But sometimes you just have to really slam the brakes, espcially in Germany where the difference in speed between you and a truck is higher than in other countries. I'm spending quite a lot of time there and braking hard is unavoidable unless you are driving max 120 km/h, and still then it is possible when there's an unexpected traffic jam or sth.
Well what you tell thats not a problem, like the brakes works even if they them vibrates. no big deal.
You will not warp a RS6 rotor. That would be unevan pad disposal, very much so comming from the crapy stock pads you drive around whit. Extra very much so comming from the crapy pads as you travel fast on the bahn. That is a killer on those crap material pads. The sound is as well a sign that you could be on the brake pedal to long at a time(even all drilled rotos sound). Imagin the heat tranferd to those stock street material stock pads(pagid) while you are braking from close to 300 on speedo, and you are braking under time. While driving a crapy pad like that stock one, try to rather brake 2 times on the bahn from high speed, then its less pad material transferd to rotor( thats the vibrating issu)
The best ting to do if one want a vibrating feel to the car is to drive stock pads on the bahn and brake under a long time while braking(then vibrating is comming like mail in the post box) Let the non heat resistant steet pad breathe, that would be fast of the brake pedal under braking then on again. As well RS6 is an auto that would more easy make pads dissposal transfer to rotor. Like when you are on very hot rotors standing still at a light, whit the foot pressed on the brake pedal, thats as well when dispossal is transferd to rotor. Well pads are ment to transfer material to rotor, but its these things that make it unevan dispossal. There are pads that have a tendency to transfer more or less un evan material, stock pads are the one that could get you in troubel.

Or if you dont bother, put propper heat resistant pads on like black or grey pagid as well highest boiling point brake fluid. Still when im traveling at autobhan at 300 on speedo, well me im always rather brake 2 short real hard times insteed of one a bit longer. You would not imagin what relief pads in genral(stock pads in particular) feel every time one let them air a few sek under mad braking on the bhan. I driver ther a lot over years.

[LU-RS6]

7:53 RS6 ,



I try to do it these days, braking hard for a short time instead of braking slowly for a long time. Also when I come off the highway and I'm in front of trafficlights, I usually put the gear in Neutral to prevent the need for brakes.

Is there any specific brand of pads etc you can recommend?

@ skiwi : No the car is not under warranty anymore and I don't even feel like going through the trouble of making the dealer pay because in the end it'll cost me more with regards to cardiac medicins and treatments :doh:


I'm very much in doubt now...should I buy again the stock rotors and just buy different pads as 7:53 RS6 recommends (costs for stock rotors and pads?) or should I still go Mov'it...

:vhmmm: :vhmmm: :vhmmm: :vhmmm: :vhmmm: :vhmmm:

[7:53 RS6]

7:53 RS6 ,



I try to do it these days, braking hard for a short time instead of braking slowly for a long time. Also when I come off the highway and I'm in front of trafficlights, I usually put the gear in Neutral to prevent the need for brakes.

Is there any specific brand of pads etc you can recommend?

@ skiwi : No the car is not under warranty anymore and I don't even feel like going through the trouble of making the dealer pay because in the end it'll cost me more with regards to cardiac medicins and treatments :doh:


I'm very much in doubt now...should I buy again the stock rotors and just buy different pads as 7:53 RS6 recommends (costs for stock rotors and pads?) or should I still go Mov'it...

:vhmmm: :vhmmm: :vhmmm: :vhmmm: :vhmmm: :vhmmm:
Well it would not be neaded to do that all time, rather just to do if you you are on red hot rotors. Personally im only braking 2 times at at the bhan if im all on full speed and nead to panik brake from these speeds
If you got the dollars, why not Movit, its not like they are bad in anyway, and they look very nice, but then again they are not so much better in anyway than stock whit propper bads, that would be if you dont got the dollars, easy pick then.:revs:
I drove whit the black pagid or grey, those are very god for hevy cars, as well they have the highest heat tolerans. Dont wory about the rotor wear whit these pads, its very much exaggerated.

RS 14 Black
Medium high friction racing compound with high initial bite, excellent release characteristic, very good modulation (controllability) and due to the high ceramic content low heat conductivity. RS14 has a low wear rate and is fade resistant up to a temperature of 650°C (1,200°F). Applications: Touring cars, Rally cars (tarmac), GT cars, WSC, DP, single-seaters, NASCAR .

RS 15 Grey
High friction racing compound with high content of ceramic materials, fade resistance up to 700ºC (1,300ºF). It combines a 20% higher friction value than the RS14 with a slightly increased pad wear. Although the RS15 has a good controllability and release characteristic it needs finesse to avoid over braking the car, especially with lightweight cars or cars with boosted brakes. Applications: Touring cars, Rally cars (tarmac), GT cars, WSC, high down-force single-seaters, NASCAR.

[7:53 RS6]

Well it would not be neaded to do that all time, rather just to do if you you are on red hot rotors. Personally im only braking 2 times at at the bhan if im all on full speed and nead to panik brake from these speeds
If you got the dollars, why not Movit, its not like they are bad in anyway, and they look very nice, but then again they are not so much better in anyway than stock whit propper bads, that would be if you dont got the dollars, easy pick then.:revs:
I drove whit the black pagid or grey, those are very god for hevy cars, as well they have the highest heat tolerans. Dont wory about the rotor wear whit these pads, its very much exaggerated.

RS 14 Black
Medium high friction racing compound with high initial bite, excellent release characteristic, very good modulation (controllability) and due to the high ceramic content low heat conductivity. RS14 has a low wear rate and is fade resistant up to a temperature of 650°C (1,200°F). Applications: Touring cars, Rally cars (tarmac), GT cars, WSC, DP, single-seaters, NASCAR .

RS 15 Grey
High friction racing compound with high content of ceramic materials, fade resistance up to 700ºC (1,300ºF). It combines a 20% higher friction value than the RS14 with a slightly increased pad wear. Although the RS15 has a good controllability and release characteristic it needs finesse to avoid over braking the car, especially with lightweight cars or cars with boosted brakes. Applications: Touring cars, Rally cars (tarmac), GT cars, WSC, high down-force single-seaters, NASCAR.

Ohh, and dont worry, the roumor that pads like this have almost no initial bite when cold is totaly exaggerated and wrong. They bite super initaly even cold.

[LU-RS6]

Ohh, and dont worry, the roumor that pads like this have almost no initial bite when cold is totaly exaggerated and wrong. They bite super initaly even cold.


Ok thanks for your info. Glad we came to a good agreement after a hard discussion :king:. I will keep you posted about my choice.

Best regards
LU-RS6

[LU-RS6]

Ohh, and dont worry, the roumor that pads like this have almost no initial bite when cold is totaly exaggerated and wrong. They bite super initaly even cold.



Any ID where they can be purchased in Europe?

Thx
LU-RS6

[Benman]

If you got the dollars, why not Movit, its not like they are bad in anyway, and they look very nice, but then again they are not so much better in anyway than stock whit propper bads


I'll second that. Jimmy here tracks his Beast on a regular basis and yet has no issues with brakes. His key: Pagid pads...

Ben:addict:

[gjg]

gents, tracking and driving and autobahn are two very different things, I suggest you read once again Robin 's (Nordes..) write up. Good track brakes may not necessarily survive agressive driving on unrestricted road with general Joe/Hans/Fritz public without rear view mirros ..... :idea:

[jimmy94507]

gents, tracking and driving and autobahn are two very different things, I suggest you read once again Robin 's (Nordes..) write up. Good track brakes may not necessarily survive agressive driving on unrestricted road with general Joe/Hans/Fritz public without rear view mirros ..... :idea:

Hmmm, I guess you're saying drive within the capabilities of your brakes. I agree!
Get high temp pads, get high temp fluid, try to get more air to the center of the rotor (Phaeton ducts help).
When idiots pull out in front of you on the Autobahn and you have to abuse the brakes, go slower for a couple minutes so your rotors/pads/fluid can cool, then crank it up.
Even with my mods, I can abuse the brakes and overheat the system. But why? There are no medals to win.
We are testing a replacement 2-piece rotor that's built similar to Brembo, Movit or Alcon. Big cooling vanes and less metal to build up excessive heat.
Too bad the big name brake companies won't make a replacement rotor!! They want to sell you a "System" replacement for Big $'s. We'll keep you posted on our results.

Regards, Jimmy S.

[skiwi]

you gotta smile. i was talking with a colleague about his experience at his local car club where he instructs. he related a story of an m3-owner who spent $6k usd on a brake upgrade and gained a second in lap time at the local track. and another m3 owner who was 3 seconds faster than this, with a standard setup, because he had better technique and lines.

[7:53 RS6]

gents, tracking and driving and autobahn are two very different things, I suggest you read once again Robin 's (Nordes..) write up. Good track brakes may not necessarily survive agressive driving on unrestricted road with general Joe/Hans/Fritz public without rear view mirros ..... :idea:

Not like i have not driven the bhan. Other friktion material compound in stock brakes do make a diffrens. It even make a diffrens in feel to brake a pad like that. Things like steellines sure why not, but you hardly feel any diffrens of them alone to make an exampel. But to brake a soft pad vs a hard pad, its a slightly other feel. As well the more heat resistent pad like it alot better on the bhan vs stock.
Still gjg as i remember i you did not even try out propped pads and fluid on you car befor the upprade? Sure i can admit a bigger rotor can take care of heat better, but even so can pads do as well fluid.

I will repeat my sentens about new RS4. Movit is at present delivering a setup for new RS4, if you gather your thinking a while, do you gjg think new RS4 nead other brakes than it got? What ever street or track. Think about that new RS4 just left production line, and belive me their testdriver as well brembo know the autobhan as well. And all are free to use other pads if ont think one is hard on the brakes. After market is big bussines, we must know this by now. As well kind os nice to have a car like yours or Nenes, that differ from the others. And im pretty sure the brakes on your car are not worse than stock, still they might not bee all that 7000euro better if you know what i mean. Still i see my self whit APs on my CSL, but not as a reason stock are bad. Same whit Movit, i would buy these rotors to get a nice look on my car, i would not buy them due to i nead them so despratly. Its like on get the impression that stock RS6 brakes are dangerus on the bahn, well to be frank thats very much not the case.

As some do the debate, it sounds if Quattro GmBh did put somthing they found on the street to make it stopp the RS6 at speeads, its not like this. Thats more likely aftermarket peopel tuning their cars. There has be extencing testing before Audi put the brakes they did on RS6/4, its not that Quattro enginers dident know RS6 is a lot of pork, pretty hevy. I guess they come to think of this while developing the car, if not before:)
Movit have never done the same amount of testing car togheter whit brakes as Quattro did while developing RS6, im pretty sure of this. As im pretty sure Powerflex never even developed a bushing while driven the same bushing in rear traling arm of CSL or front bushing. Powerflex is not up to the pressure a CSL deliver on R-compound, and one could lose life to be frank driven Powerflex aftermarket shit in CSL, they go in smal bits, get totaly destroyed! Happend to me, got penty of pics.
Stock dont do this, BMW developed its stock bushing togheter whit CSL, big diffrence. Still its a big sale this Powerflex shit.
Sure Movit do work and are fine i dont mean anything else here.
But this was just one bad exampel of aftermarket not developed whit the car, still selling to the mass.

[gjg]

I can't speak for new rs4 setup. For other aftermarket I used Pagid pads on S6 quite (about 230k km) a bit and worked fine although in 240+ speeds ....

on rs6 - fluid yes, different pads on stock brakes no. Fading brakes at 250 on stock setup - sure as hell, and it is scary. Red hot rotors on front - yep ... Good performance off autobahn - yes.

Cost stock rotors/pads compared to Movit? not too much difference. So, at the end of the life of stock rotors I changed factory brakes to Movits (on 2 rs6 avants btw) and I am happy with the performance - works fine where I drive and how I drive.

Track is different from road - you keep the brakes warmed up on track, on highway you can do panic stop from 280 to 30 with cold(er) brakes ....

As far as I know there was bit of testing on movits and I'm not sure about your statement that movit is like some other companies producing aftermarket stuff for better looks instead of performance - without testing. That's almost like some tuners selling software for rs cars without even seeing one .... :jlol:

:cheers:

[7:53 RS6]

I can't speak for new rs4 setup. For other aftermarket I used Pagid pads on S6 quite (about 230k km) a bit and worked fine although in 240+ speeds ....

on rs6 - fluid yes, different pads on stock brakes no. Fading brakes at 250 on stock setup - sure as hell, and it is scary. Red hot rotors on front - yep ... Good performance off autobahn - yes.

Cost stock rotors/pads compared to Movit? not too much difference. So, at the end of the life of stock rotors I changed factory brakes to Movits (on 2 rs6 avants btw) and I am happy with the performance - works fine where I drive and how I drive.

Track is different from road - you keep the brakes warmed up on track, on highway you can do panic stop from 280 to 30 with cold(er) brakes ....

As far as I know there was bit of testing on movits and I'm not sure about your statement that movit is like some other companies producing aftermarket stuff for better looks instead of performance - without testing. That's almost like some tuners selling software for rs cars without even seeing one .... :jlol:

:cheers:
Red hot rotors is normal:cheers:

[gjg]

I know ...

:cheers:

[Avus-RS6]

Great discussion!

When it's time for me to replace the brakes on my RS6, I'll be getting higher temp fluid, better pads, and maybe some cooling prior to spending serious money for an aftermarket brake "upgrade". I didn't need this thread to tell me that, as my experience with Porsche and Audi brakes has led me to that conclusion.

I like the points 7:53 makes, and I generally feel the same way. Why spend thousands for aftermarket brakes when the factory engineered brakes are more than adequate if used properly (pads, fluid, braking technique)

Now, if I increase the output of the engine sometime down the road via ECU and/or turbo upgrade, and find that the upgraded pads, fluid, and cooling is no longer adequate to prevent brake fade, at that point I would consider an aftermarket brake kit like Movit or Stasis/Alcon, but no sooner.

:addict:

Jason

[gjg]

Originally Posted by Avus-RS6

increase the output of the engine sometime down the road via ECU and/or turbo upgrade, and find that the upgraded pads, fluid, and cooling is no longer adequate to prevent brake fade, at that point I would consider an aftermarket brake kit like Movit or Stasis/Alcon, but no sooner.

that's the point - stock brakes do not perform that well at high speed (240+ km/h) repeated use. With MTM setup it gets even worse.

second issue - the price difference (US pricing) is not that much, gents and the results are well worth the effort.

If you drive 65 (mph), don't waste your time or money. Unless you live inm Montana ...... :jlol:

:cheers:

[7:53 RS6]

Any ID where they can be purchased in Europe?

Thx
LU-RS6

From many places, see www.pagid.com

Anyway, here is a old film from my rs6 on red hot rotors. I kind of are resposibel for this to happen, and its not relly the brakes fault. Im on r-compund and do use the brakes more than neaded. Race pads was on order but dident show up, due to the car was pretty new, and it was harder to get the pads then, now instant deliver of course.
Sure a few yers back i was more in to i did not, but one get prespectiv over years. Still i was on stock pads, and that together whit r-compund and a hevy brake foot as well hevy car, well its a no, no:nono: . As well the load index of these tiers was on the edge, well we know that, but drove anyway, as well at times we was four grown up in the car, thats like 2400kg going around on curbs and all. Well one get older, i would not drive this load index again, but the rest i would, as well to go faster around whit less brake, still loads of fun at the time:wo: .

R-compound are due to the enhanced braking grip throwing in loads of more energy in to rotors than street tiers do, so its preferd to inded have racepads then, as well it takes more from the driver in terms one must not overbrake, i learn every day. Learning by doing. One use the enhaced grip from slicks or r-compound to ones favor not the othe way around., that mean one nead to brake less as one got more grip, well i learn. As well use the grip in corners and not brake so much, in CSL its a joy.

http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=7962212050929574608

[skiwi]

fabulous video. great driving, and might i say, a great testimonial for the stock brake setup....

[LU-RS6]

That is still such an awesome vid, I can keep looking at it over and over again

[Avus-RS6]

Looks like you've done that before, excellent video! At least the tire didn't let loose on a right hander!

[LU-RS6]

Is it possible that one has to file off a bit of the pagid pads in order to mount them, as they are toot thick? We tried it first like it was but the car simply wouldn't move in D and the rotors got up to 350-400° which is not good.

I just want to know for my next set because when I'm doing the ring a few more laps I'll need new ones soon.
Last lap the brakes were smoking and I had to go for a drive to let them cool off.
Also what compound / which pagid pads should I be buying?


Thanks
LU-RS6

[jimmy94507]

Is it possible that one has to file off a bit of the pagid pads in order to mount them, as they are toot thick? We tried it first like it was but the car simply wouldn't move in D and the rotors got up to 350-400° which is not good.

I just want to know for my next set because when I'm doing the ring a few more laps I'll need new ones soon.
Last lap the brakes were smoking and I had to go for a drive to let them cool off.
Also what compound / which pagid pads should I be buying?


Thanks
LU-RS6

I've had no trouble with new Pagis RS 14 pads. Are you sure you got the caliper pistons retracted all the way into the calipers before inserting the new pads?

I agree with other posts. Ther RS 14's and RS 15's do NOT destroy your rotors. They are not too agressive and don't cause excessive wear to the rotor rings.
Drive agressively, like at the ring and they'll put wear on your rotors, BUT, they can handle a lot more heat with less chance of pad deposition on the rotors. Look at the temperature specs I posted in your other thread. Higher friction levels and higher working temperature range will serve you better at the Ring and Autobahn!

Regards, Jimmy S.

[LU-RS6]

Jimmy thanks.

I got my pads at Mosafrein in Belgium, but maybe they supplied me the wrong pad size :confused:.

Anyway, I'll keep your thoughts in mind and go for RS14 or RS15 next time.

I was so amazed by the grip and the fact that the RS6 is not understeering that hard, so I'll be visiting the Ring in a week or 2 weeks time again. I'd better order new pads already :hihi:

[7:53 RS6]

Fun to hear you visit the ring:0:

As Jimmy say as well i mentioned before, go for the pagid pads that take more heat!! Rather than your blue pagid that are not the best pagid pads for the heavy RS6.

Sure the ring all cars drive well more or less due to a fast track, not many hairpins to say the least(none) So understear is not a big issue on the ring. But still i driven my RS6 avant plenty on smaller tracks as well and it kind of go well still, it get to hot and it go in to limp mode due to not god cooling. RS6+ make more laps before it hit limp mode on the smaller tracks vs RS6. Still limp mode is a pain, but its to save the enging, and after some minutes in pit RS6 drive like it should again.

As well this is not an issu in the fast ring due to fast cooling track.

A video from a smaller track i drove, on street tiers. And some smoke from a friends E55

http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=6544238092200426792

[LU-RS6]

Fun to hear you visit the ring:0:

As Jimmy say as well i mentioned before, go for the pagid pads that take more heat!! Rather than your blue pagid that are not the best pagid pads for the heavy RS6.

Sure the ring all cars drive well more or less due to a fast track, not many hairpins to say the least(none) So understear is not a big issue on the ring. But still i driven my RS6 avant plenty on smaller tracks as well and it kind of go well still, it get to hot and it go in to limp mode due to not god cooling. RS6+ make more laps before it hit limp mode on the smaller tracks vs RS6. Still limp mode is a pain, but its to save the enging, and after some minutes in pit RS6 drive like it should again.

As well this is not an issu in the fast ring due to fast cooling track.

A video from a smaller track i drove, on street tiers. And some smoke from a friends E55

http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=6544238092200426792


Thanks for posting, looks like a neat track :bow:
Must be fun in winter when there is snow, or isn't it open then?


If you ever visit the ring again let me know and I'll be there. I don't expect to be able to keep up with you but it'll be fun still :hahahehe:

I'll be ordering some RS14 compound pagids as my next set. Goddamn this superheavy beast :vhmmm:
I hope my Kadett GSI is ready for the Ring soon because as long as I'll be driving the RS6 it's bound to get costy :harass:

Oh well, fun costs money right :cool2:

[7:53 RS6]

That is still such an awesome vid, I can keep looking at it over and over again


Glad you think its fun, still its many years ago so im not so happy about my line.

Here is one even older (2003) when i drove my old RS4 avant on street tiers. Remember before this lap it was 10 years ago that i drove the ring(1993).
So these line around and driving style is very much crapy, even in the RS6 its crapy, but in RS4 im kind of:blush: :noshake: when i see this video again, well, well.

In my CSL im nowdays getting better:bye: And much more fast:wo:

Going down in the CSL to the ring soon again:wo:

http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-173653271244561504

[LU-RS6]

Haha yeah you can see that your lines were better in the RS6, but hey I shouldn't be commenting I still SUCK in the last part of the ring :confused:

[7:53 RS6]

It would be fun to meat at the ring, just PM me when you go. Even if i dont drive my CSL more than 2 times a year at the ring i fly down and drive other cars. We might meet up some day.

If you bother the see this video in the end of it i drift my RS6 Avant slightly thru 2 bends at once at Hatzenbach at the ring. What dont we put our selv to make ouer filmer happy(The guy filming all is Erik at RS6.com)

The reason we filmed the GT3 rs was it was all brand new at the time.
:cheers:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8640159739809223604&hl=en

[LU-RS6]

I have spotted exactly the same GT3RS this Sunday at the Ring, except for the wheels :0:

Nice drift :trash: I've seen it already in a topic Erik started somewhere around here.

The brakes seemed to be a bit fucked on the GT3 at the end though :confused:


http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t260/Chillax666/Ringtime/IMGP0144edit.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t260/Chillax666/Ringtime/IMGP0143edit.jpg

[craigrs62004]

how are the movits because all i need are discs someone mentioned tarox what does anyone think?
04 rs6

[Babsi]

HI,

I have put EBC Redstuff pads on my RS6 and they are really great.

[LU-RS6]

HI,

I have put EBC Redstuff pads on my RS6 and they are really great.


Good to hear so, that is what I'll be using next to see what it gives.

[sechsgang]

I acutally use less pad on the track than I do on the street with my 996tt...and though the limits here are only "55" mph and "65" mph, I can assure you, I am rarely within 40% of that...and the amount of backroads driving I do with this car is particularly mindboggling...that being said...here are some of my findings with stock setup...


1. I can absolutely, 100% get these things to fade with only a few laps of my favorite backroads...the roads have many 100mph crusing abilities followed by near 90 degree turns and hairpins...wonderful to drive on but brutal on my brakes.

2.The noises that come from my pads...sound more horrific than my race pads on my B Stock PCA 996TT. That is NOT cool.

3.They make more brake dust than a crack dealer crack in NYC during a Police retreat.

4.Wear out AMAZINGLY quickely. I know how to brake...trust me on that...and these rotors and pads just dissintigrate in seemingly no time at all with my normal "spirited" driving.

5. As others have said and the techs mentioned...has the biggest damn bias of braking toward the front that I can swing the rear end of this "plowing" car with just a little modulation of the brake...but in all honesty...I LOVE that...



Im seriously debating going to the Alcon product as I have heard amazing things about them and want something to resist the fade that is plauging my car.

[skiwi]

1 word: cooling.

try out the phaeton cooling mod, before you plump serious cash at the issue.

[sechsgang]

1 word: cooling.

try out the phaeton cooling mod, before you plump serious cash at the issue.

Already have the phaeton kit in the garage...my other problem is dealing with Audi to get things replaced...I dont really tolerate noises on my car that I know I can fix unless the noises there are noises I put on the car (my race pads for example). Otherwise, I have dealt with too much service BS about squeeling (mine sound like metal on metal, not the standard high pitch whine) and just want to take things into my own hands.

[Jani]

Strange.

Mine is a RS6 plus, a recent change from B5 RS4, and I was just on a track day. No problems with the brakes, they stand up amazingly well. Was expecting them to be a problem, after hearing all these complaints about fade. They are the cross drilled sport brakes with stock pads in the plus, and I would cool them every 2 laps for a lap or so, and more at the end of session. The brake fluid was also stock, but just changed.

Been thinking of adding the Phaeton mod, plus maybe more heat resistant pads for the track, Movit Pro-pads, but overall, these are amazing brakes.

And don't get me started on the chassis. Having heard that it is a pig, not track suited etc, understeery etc, all those things it is not. Amazing, it will even kick the tail out occasionally. I'm very happy. But the 997 S drivers that have been trying to follow are not so happy :)

[sechsgang]

Strange.

Mine is a RS6 plus, a recent change from B5 RS4, and I was just on a track day. No problems with the brakes, they stand up amazingly well. Was expecting them to be a problem, after hearing all these complaints about fade. They are the cross drilled sport brakes with stock pads in the plus, and I would cool them every 2 laps for a lap or so, and more at the end of session. The brake fluid was also stock, but just changed.

Been thinking of adding the Phaeton mod, plus maybe more heat resistant pads for the track, Movit Pro-pads, but overall, these are amazing brakes.

And don't get me started on the chassis. Having heard that it is a pig, not track suited etc, understeery etc, all those things it is not. Amazing, it will even kick the tail out occasionally. I'm very happy. But the 997 S drivers that have been trying to follow are not so happy :)



Just goes to show what a real driver can do with nearly any car...as for the fade...it seems wierd that some of us get pedal to the floor fade with only a few hotlaps or backroads jaunts...while others have nearly the same feel throughought...makes me wonder if they fluids or pads used on US and European cars are the same...cause it seems most of the people who's pads are fading severely are in the US with a few European cases...

[SpinEcho]

and I would cool them every 2 laps for a lap or so

Well, this will certainly help the situation! However, it's nice to be able to do more than a couple of laps before you have to baby the brakes for fear you'll have them go off completely...

Update re: Alcon discs/Stasis pads -

After 4 lengthy trackdays I'm halfway through my second set of pads and I predict the discs will need replacing after the next trackday.

So - more confidence inspiring brakes, but an expensive undertaking with this heavy car!

To put things in perspective re: brake balance, my rear discs and pads were just changed. They were the originals, having lasted since 2004 with about 40,000 km road driving and 5 trackdays.

[skiwi]

the phaeton mod is a diy job - with a little care. see my post on how to do it:
http://forums.audiworld.com/rs6/msgs/33746.phtml

after i had finished, i got the audi service guys to sight the work and ok it for warranty purposes. ditto my other mods (rns-e etc)...

[Jani]

Cooling laps in the RS6 are as quick as normal cars lap, you just skip the bit with the brakes :)


After 4 lengthy trackdays I'm halfway through my second set of pads and I predict the discs will need replacing after the next trackday.


To me that does not sound too bad. Aftermarket brakes are not free of problems. Disc cracking, squeeling, vibrations, etc. All in all the RS6 brakes are superb. And they are quiet in street use, which you do miss after fitting some hi-po track special brakes. BTDT in an earlier life. Not to mention the B5 RS4 quattro sport brakes, which were really annoying when in parking garages etc.

[sechsgang]

so where the hell can I just find upgraded DISCS??


I would much rather upgrade discs, pads, lines etc than goin the whole way...

[Jani]

You've tried the sport brake disc from plus? Add Phaeton cooling mod and Pagid pads, I think you are there.

I know Movit have a set, where they use the original caliper with shim discs either 370 x 35mm or 396mm. Latter fits only with 20" wheels :)

[LU-RS6]

so where the hell can I just find upgraded DISCS??


I would much rather upgrade discs, pads, lines etc than goin the whole way...



IMO there is no point in upgrading the discs unless there is more cooling. How to get more cooling besides the phaeton scoops is a good question :vhmmm:

[sechsgang]

IMO there is no point in upgrading the discs unless there is more cooling. How to get more cooling besides the phaeton scoops is a good question :vhmmm:



fog lights out maybe?

[SpinEcho]

IMO there is no point in upgrading the discs unless there is more cooling. How to get more cooling besides the phaeton scoops is a good question :vhmmm:

I agree in retrospect that fundamentally the best and probably cheapest solution is cooling ducts.

However as someone who has switched to a properly vented disc design, I can tell you that this is also a viable option.

If you don't want the whole kit, there was a gentleman on this forum (?earlier in this thread) who had commissioned properly vented aftermarket discs that fit the OEM calipers.

[LU-RS6]

If you don't want the whole kit, there was a gentleman on this forum (?earlier in this thread) who had commissioned properly vented aftermarket discs that fit the OEM calipers.

Yeah, but never heard from them again. I think I posted a reply in that thread asking for more info and details...

[sechsgang]

thats a real shame...Im STILL hunting around to see what the hell I want to do...good god...if I didnt love the rs6 this much...GRRRRR...haha




Im thinking about just braking down and installing the alcon kit and the phaeton ducts and calling it a day...

[Radiation Joe]

Yeah, but never heard from them again. I think I posted a reply in that thread asking for more info and details...

If these are the disks you are talking about, they are ordered in group buys periodically. The one shortcoming I see in them is the possiblity of transfering heat to the hub. The stock disks are isolated by the pins. These are significantly lighter and don't retain heat like the stock ones. The rotors are manufactured by a well respected company.

Stock is on the left.

http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/1881/Compare.jpg


http://www.mnaudi.com/mymnaudi/images/1881/RS6_Brakes%20sample.jpg

[42TT]

What pads do people recommend? Ive used the EBC RedStuff is there anything better for hard street driving? Also what brake fluid?

42TT

[sechsgang]

pagid grey maybe?


fluid...any dot 4...ate blue/gold/motul rbf600

[LU-RS6]

What pads do people recommend? Ive used the EBC RedStuff is there anything better for hard street driving? Also what brake fluid?

42TT


I'm rolling on pagid blue and happy with it. Just watch out for braking hard if they're cold, can be dangerous.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t260/Chillax666/Audi%20RS6%20Avant/brake%20upgrade/pagid.jpg


Brake fluid I'm on Ferrodo dot 5.1 and using steelflex brakelines.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t260/Chillax666/Audi%20RS6%20Avant/brake%20upgrade/IMGP0373.jpg

[LU-RS6]

If these are the disks you are talking about, they are ordered in group buys periodically. The one shortcoming I see in them is the possiblity of transfering heat to the hub. The stock disks are isolated by the pins. These are significantly lighter and don't retain heat like the stock ones. The rotors are manufactured by a well respected company.

Stock is on the left.





Jup, those are the ones I think. Any experience with it? Any more information on them, or how and where they can be ordered and at what price?

[jimmy94507]

Jup, those are the ones I think. Any experience with it? Any more information on them, or how and where they can be ordered and at what price?

Go to this thread:
http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11459

JP4 posted a description and pictures as well as performance results at the track. My experience is similar to his, although I've been using RS-14 pads. Excellent results! I will use RS-15's on my next trip to the track.

We have discussed putting together another order for hats and rotor rings and will try to get a list of interested parties in the US. Please send me an e-mail if you are interested in discussing these rotors. (jimmys@cableone.net)

For those in Europe, someone posted earlier in this thread that Movit had a 370mm rotor and shim so you can use your RS6 8 piston caliper. If that rotor is available, I recommend you investigate obtaining it as long as you can still use your OEM 18" wheels. We don't know anything about exporting rotor pieces to Europe??

Again, for Pagid Pads: We use ceramic type compound for higher friction and its low heat conductivity to caliper. This was very beneficial with the OEM rotor.
RS 4-2 Blue - A medium friction racing compound with good cold friction and fading resistance up to 500°C ( 930°F).
RS 14 Black - This is a medium high friction value ceramic type compound with very good modulation, high fade resistance, low heat conductivity, and a good wear rate up to a temperature of 650°C (1.200°F).
RS 15 Grey - Very high torque compound. It combines a 20% higher friction value than the RS14 with a slightly increased pad wear. Needs finesse to avoid over braking the car. Good release characteristic.

Regards, Jimmy S.

[JP4]

I have an update on our aftermarket rotor experience for the beast. See the post on the original thread by skiwi.

Sorry it took so long!

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?p=99631#post99631

JP4

[jimmy94507]

I have an update on our aftermarket rotor experience for the beast. See the post on the original thread by skiwi.

Sorry it took so long!

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?p=99631#post99631

JP4

Hi All,

We're collecting names for any of you who are interested in the rotors discussed in these threads.
I have contacted and received information for some. If you would send me your e-mail address I can then send e-mail directly to each interested parties at the same time. It is difficult to communicate effectively through the forums. You can respond directly to me. Please provide City, state, country so we'll be able to assess any unusual shipping needs.
Eventually, we will need deopsits and your complete shipping information, including a phone #.

Jimmy S.
jimmys@cableone.net

[grizz]

Well , I've just had my pad warning light come on, I've done 3000miles on this set of RED EBC PADS . I've got some pagid black , phaeton ducks and castrol srf brake fluid . I'll fit on Monday and re post back in a week .

[intended_accel]

I can't stand the squealing any more!!! I don't care if there is only 5K on the new front pads. The the noise in the office garage every morning is worse than nails on a chalk board, and embarassing to boot. Add the fact that I have to clean my front wheels every other day, and it's just not worth it. Any suggestions from the board other than what has been previously posted in this thread?

Thanks!

IA

[hahnmgh63]

IA? This isn't Alex is it?

[jimmy94507]

Hi IA,

I'd be willing to discuss your issue.
However, searching posts from you, I was unable to find one with more details regarding your brake setup, etc., and how you drive your car.
Send me e-mail with some details. Send a phone # and time for me to call you.
jimmys@cableone.net

Regards,
Jimmy S.

[gjg]

Go to this thread:
http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11459


For those in Europe, someone posted earlier in this thread that Movit had a 370mm rotor and shim so you can use your RS6 8 piston caliper. If that rotor is available, I recommend you investigate obtaining it as long as you can still use your OEM 18" wheels. We don't know anything about exporting rotor pieces to Europe??

Regards, Jimmy S.

I have the 370mm Movit rotors and they do clear 18" wheels (stock RS6 and BBS I use for winter).

I do have Movit caliper though ..... so I do not know if it will fit the original 8 piston stock (have those sitting in the garage ...)

And the rotor is available (just ordered replacemets), replacement rotor is not expensive however I do not know what the new rotor and hat would cost - check with Movit guys here:

info@alltombilen.com (Per).

[intended_accel]

Hi hahnmgh63 (http://www.rs6.com/forum/member.php?u=3357). No, not Alex....

Jimmy, thanks for the quick reply. PM forthcoming, but for the record, it's a fully stock setup with OEM everything to my knowledge. Bought it last October and just haven't brought myself to change much of anything...yet. As for driving style, it depends upon the day of the week and the time of day. Weekdays, it's a commutermobile unless it's in the evening and I find a good section of road (or more importantly, the weekend). Then I drive it quite hard. Otherwise, what's the point in owning such a machine? BTW, squeal is only on light braking. Haven't gotten to the track, yet. Likely will once I get a set of dedicated rubber. It rains alot here, so daily tread will be geared towards rain and some snow, but I want summer performance for track days.

IA

[jimmy94507]

Hi all,

We're putting together another order here in the US for rotors which directly replace the OEM rotor using the stock caliper.

Go to this thread for the post by JP4 on page one.
Some pictures. More performance info on other pages of the thread.
http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11459

approximately $1000 for a set (reusable hat), plus shipping

Send me e-mail if you're interested.
Jimmy S.
jimmys@cableone.net

[Chuangs4]

Try Movit ceramic brake because I think it deserves the money!:rs6kiss:

Here are some pics of my 396mm ceramic brake:

[DuckWingDuck]

damn, how much are movit ceramics?

[peiserg]

guys this is from my email between myself and jimmy

basically jimmy said we can get a group buy price on orders of 10 or more.

I'm in for a set.

SO... te short version is as follows.... when it's time to replace the rotors, it only sets you back $175 per rotor instead of the OEM $480ish.

You do need to purchase the reusable "hat" the first time tho. so the first time through, there is no savings. Jimmy's starting on his 2nd set, so he's already saved about $600!!

I don't know how we will handle the finances, I've met jimmy personally (though I didn't run a credit check!). perhaps we can pay direct to the company?

I'm down for a set. I will purchase a second set of rings if it puts us over the top, price wise. I'm sure i'll need them, and the prices will only go up...along with shipping.


> Just got off the phone - current prices
> "Reusable" HAT $273 ea,
> + Ring $175.15 ea + slots $16.25/rotor
> + hardware(20 bolts/washers + 40 nuts) $?? + shipping $ ??
> (I'll check my records for what I have on hardware and previous
> shipping)
> I'd suggest having a machinist true up the rotors after assemby.
>
> Lead time on Hats are 2 to 3 weeks after submitting order.
> How desperate are you?
> (I have a spare set of unused track rotors which have been trued)
> We may be in Phoenix on 10 & 11 June? Should know our plans by tomorrow?

[Benman]

I don't know how we will handle the finances, I've met jimmy personally (though I didn't run a credit check!). perhaps we can pay direct to the company?



Jimmy's character is absolutely immpecable. I'd have zero reservations with monetary matters concering him. :cheers:

Ben:addict:

[Clubsport]

Try Movit ceramic brake because I think it deserves the money!:rs6kiss:

Here are some pics of my 396mm ceramic brake:

Wow! could you tell more about these wonderfull rotors! I have to change mine on my 996GT2 and I would have more informations about movit.

[Chuangs4]

damn, how much are movit ceramics?

In local price this brake is about 11000euro...:trash:

[Chuangs4]

Wow! could you tell more about these wonderfull rotors! I have to change mine on my 996GT2 and I would have more informations about movit.From this pic you can find how Movit dose a fantastic work on their ceramic brake. They are even better than any stock ceramic brake or PCCB...:thumb:

[DuckWingDuck]

In local price this brake is about 11000euro...:trash:

Damn, 500K NTD? Would love to see it next time I'm through Taipei.

[Chuangs4]

Damn, 500K NTD? Would love to see it next time I'm through Taipei.Not a problem man. Just leave me a PM when you can stop by here...:cheers:

[jimmy94507]

Jimmy's character is absolutely immpecable. I'd have zero reservations with monetary matters concering him. :cheers:

Ben:addict:

Hi Ben,

Thanks for the kind words!!
We do not make any $'s on these rotors. Our goal is to break even; not lose money.
Actually, we lose a lot of time and effort getting the word out, consolidating the order, collecting the $'s, arranging shipping, etc. , so others can benefit from the rotor's improved performance.
I used to worry about when my brakes would start to fade. Now, I have to really overdrive the car, not get a cool down lap, and then will get pedal softness in the paddock. These rotors with proper pads are confidence inspiring.

Regards, Jimmy S.
P.S. - Ben, any update on your possible trip?

[Clubsport]

From this pic you can find how Movit dose a fantastic work on their ceramic brake. They are even better than any stock ceramic brake or PCCB...:thumb:

and PCCB for my car is about 16 000 euros....:trash::trash::trash:

[Benman]

P.S. - Ben, any update on your possible trip?

Sorry Jimmy, still on hold since I have to make a return trip to WV...:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[itchingtogo]

Any one know if it can it be used in the RS6???

[gjg]

Sorry Jimmy, still on hold since I have to make a return trip to WV...:cheers:

Ben:addict:

have to check on sheep flock ......:hihi:

[Benman]

have to check on sheep flock ......:hihi:


You mean the four legged chicken flock, no? :applause:

Ben:addict:

[gjg]

You mean the four legged chicken flock, no? :applause:

Ben:addict:

of course ... after all you are coming to family reunion to meet women .... :jlol:

[Roger]

I'm looking for replacement rotors to use with stock brakes...anything left from that group buy? The custom rotor buy?

[jimmy94507]

I'm looking for replacement rotors to use with stock brakes...anything left from that group buy? The custom rotor buy?

HI roger,

Send me an e-mail. I can give you more details.
Since you have a Viper on order, how long will you be keeping the RS6.
The replacement rotor makes a lot of sense if you're keeping the car, then just replace the worn rotor rings.

Regards,
Jimmy S.
jimmys@cableone.net

[Roger]

Thanks, email sent