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RXBG
October 5th, 2006, 04:45
there is a great deal of discussion over these issues. and i wanted to highlight them.

i think the R8 weighs what it does simply because it is what audi wanted. i remember sitting down to talk to one of the chief RS4 development engineers in geneva. he told me that audi designs cars "backwards". that is, an executive decision is made to achieve basic, non-negotiable INTERNAL goals for the car. in many cases these goals, though reached, are never advertised as such. some of these goals are actually downgraded publicly.

case in point. the RS4 0-60 time. the on-paper goal for the RS4 was for it to hit 60 in 4.5 seconds. consistently. and it does. at least developmentally. then they advertise a higher number (why? you figure that out yourself, i suppose). despite this, some car mags do worse (and some better). ultimately all averaging, you guessed it, about 4.5 seconds. intriguing.

he told me similar things about power output. and he also told me that when the car and its numbers are drawn up (way before any engines, power outputs, and such have been calculated) there is also an equipment specification that is assigned to the car. that is. there are certain items that are expected to be standard on the car whose presence is non-negotiable (that is, in order to achieve the performance numbers, engineers cannot delete these items at whim nor add any items. although they can redesign them in order to be less intrusive or complementary to the final end of the car) as long as, of course, their redesign does not impact yet another number, production cost (and overall reliability). interesting, huh? this whole process burns a lot of people out. and this process is why parts-bin sharing is so crucial. redesigning a part that has been tried and tested is a last option, usually.

so. we have the R8. the R8 was designed to be what pictures show (and what some lucky ones of us have seen) and what the numbers in the text imply. a luxurious, very fast, very exclusive, comfortable, and very fancy-looking car. and it was planned from the get-go to be all of those things the way audi interpreted those things to be. whether you or i agree with audi or not is a whole other thing. (discussion is fun anyway :thumb: )

personally, as i've stated before, i am sure this car is faster than a 997 4S with the power pack and sport exhaust (at 116K USD), and it will likely retail for less, out of the box, here in the US- about 100K with the magnetic ride option as standard. and i predict it'll handle better.

---------------------

now the V10. audi wants to compete in the future with upcoming offerings from competitors. and the V10 is actually pretty much ready. but it is not its time. its time will come. very soon. (it might coincide with the appearance of a bimmer we shall see before 2007 is over.......) a benz you said? i don't know. that will depend on the stubborness of the folks over at mclaren.

will the V10 be the same as the RS6? i do not claim to know. but i do not think it will be. why? re-read paragraphs 2 and 4 if you already forgot ;)

finally, at IT'S pricepoint. the V10 will finally silence most critics.... because that one will definitely be capable of 60 in less than 4.0 seconds. regardless of what the final official power figures state. don't ask me how i know. :king:

that is all. cheers, gentlemen. and bon nuit........

and thank you for your time.

i humbly remain.

RXBG

sticky
October 5th, 2006, 05:41
What I don't get is, if you know all this stuff then why were your predictions about the R8 so far off?

chewym
October 5th, 2006, 06:25
RS4 4,000 pounds (American) [Quicket American test 0-60:4.3 seconds, slowest 4.6 (2,000 feet, 97 F). European Audi Official # 0-62.1 mph (0-100 kmph): 4.8 seconds.

R8 3,500 (American, hopefully) European Audi Official # 0-62.1 mph in 4.6 seconds. I stil believe that 0-60 in 4 seconds should be achievable by an American magazine. Most American Gallardo numbers are slow because it is supposedly "hard to launch" hopefully the R8 won't be.

RXBG
October 5th, 2006, 14:58
give me details about where i've been off?

don't question me about power ratings. i know the car makes about 440 hp.

and don't question me about the debut. the debut was going to take place in neckersaulm until the last minute. and it did anyway (in a manner of speaking). all the VIPS who attended the paris gala saw the car the week before as it rolled off the factory line..... while having drinks. that's all i know.

further. regarding the weight. i was not told official numbers you know. except one. power. though i was reasonable sure about the weight because i deduced it from the power the engine makes and the power/weight ratio i heard thrown around. in that regard i did come up with 3200-3300 lbs.

i would never try to deceive you buddy.....

m3fan
October 5th, 2006, 18:06
Your right. The R8 should be alot easier to launch because of Audi's DSG versus Lambo's F1(which is slower than bimmer's SMG). I believe the R8(4.2) will be capable of 0-60 times of 4 flat consistently. The V10 maybe 0-60 3.4-3.5. Either way the R8 is gonna big bite outta Porsche's sales.

India Whiskey Charlie
October 5th, 2006, 18:14
Your right. The R8 should be alot easier to launch because of Audi's DSG versus Lambo's F1(which is slower than bimmer's SMG). I believe the R8(4.2) will be capable of 0-60 times of 4 flat consistently. The V10 maybe 0-60 3.4-3.5. Either way the R8 is gonna big bite outta Porsche's sales.
Has it been determined that R-Tronic is DSG? I thought someone said it's another name for E-gear. Also, have you driven a 2006 Gallardo with the E-gear? It is leaps and bounds better than the current SMG. Much quicker and crisper shifts.

Leadfoot
October 5th, 2006, 18:28
Has it been determined that R-Tronic is DSG? I thought someone said it's another name for E-gear. Also, have you driven a 2006 Gallardo with the E-gear? It is leaps and bounds better than the current SMG. Much quicker and crisper shifts.

Viken,

You are correct R-Tronic is basically up-rated version of E-gear. It is not DSG as this will be 7 speed when it comes.

m3fan
October 5th, 2006, 19:00
I assumed that the R8's R-Tronic was the DSG. Bimmer's SMG is shifting speed is 65 mili sec. I don't think Lambo's faster than the SMG. I haven't seen any times for Lambo's E-gear

India Whiskey Charlie
October 5th, 2006, 19:02
I assumed that the R8's R-Tronic was the DSG. Bimmer's SMG is shifting speed is 65 mili sec. I don't think Lambo's faster than the SMG. I haven't seen any times for Lambo's E-gear
I don't go by the times the manufacturers give you. I go by the feel. Trust me on this, the latest E-gear shifts much quicker than the SMG. Have driven enough of both to tell the difference.

RXBG
October 5th, 2006, 19:17
as i understand it-

r-tronic. one clutch. based on lambo e-gear.

s-tronic. two clutches. same as dsg.

s > r imo

m3fan
October 5th, 2006, 21:45
Then the R8 V10 will be getting DSG? I don't know why Audi put a single clutch on the 4.2 R8 when they have the DSG now.

India Whiskey Charlie
October 5th, 2006, 21:54
Then the R8 V10 will be getting DSG? I don't know why Audi put a single clutch on the 4.2 R8 when they have the DSG now.
They could not develop a high torque version of the DSG in time for the R8's release.

Leadfoot
October 5th, 2006, 22:23
The DSG/S-Tronic gearbox is current finalising development for the introduction into the first longitude-engine based car (A5), it will be a 7 speed but I don't know if it will take the torque of the RS4/R8 engine as yet. But no doubt it will be ready, in the not to distant future. The current talk is the R-Tronic gearbox will shortly be going into both Lambos and only after this is done will Audi release the V10 into the R8 (2008).

I haven't driven a Lambo so can't comment on how good the gear is compared to a M5/6, but after sampling it at it's quickest setting, anything will be better than it's harsh changes, quick yes but very unpleasant. I just hope the Audi keep the E-gear's ability to hold on to a gear without changing up like the DSG box does.

sticky
October 5th, 2006, 23:34
give me details about where i've been off?

don't question me about power ratings. i know the car makes about 440 hp.

and don't question me about the debut. the debut was going to take place in neckersaulm until the last minute. and it did anyway (in a manner of speaking). all the VIPS who attended the paris gala saw the car the week before as it rolled off the factory line..... while having drinks. that's all i know.

further. regarding the weight. i was not told official numbers you know. except one. power. though i was reasonable sure about the weight because i deduced it from the power the engine makes and the power/weight ratio i heard thrown around. in that regard i did come up with 3200-3300 lbs.

i would never try to deceive you buddy.....

I didn't mean to imply you were deceiving anyone. I was just stating that according to your predictions the car was supposed to turn out 440 hp and 3150 pounds. A lot of posts were made regarding weight and I think that is the main issue that was off.

I believe the motor is making more than 420 hp, logically it has to be considering the way it is setup vs. the RS4 with the intake and exhaust.

grant
October 5th, 2006, 23:51
I believe the motor is making more than 420 hp, logically it has to be considering the way it is setup vs. the RS4 with the intake and exhaust.
I also believe that the motor should make a bit more than the RS4's 420hp, due to the dry sump. In a wet sump, the crankshaft spins in a pool of oil in the oil pan below, while a dry sump allows alot less friction to those moving parts (and resulting power loss)...

quattro Gmbh
October 6th, 2006, 11:20
They could not develop a high torque version of the DSG in time for the R8's release.

i don't think this is the case because even bugatti veyron has DSG.

but all i know is dsg ist not so good with downgears.

Leadfoot
October 6th, 2006, 13:27
I haven't drove many DSG cars but from what I see, it the best semi-auto period.

Check out how much better it performance than a manual in acceleration.

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showpost.php?p=77052&postcount=1

Eckoman
October 6th, 2006, 16:16
On the latest German "auto motor sport" TV show, the presenter was talking about the Audi R8:

bhp: 610hp, 345kph vmax
0-100kph: 3,7

Maybe these are the specs of the V10 version?

Toto89
October 6th, 2006, 17:07
This is true!I also saw the program(you speak about the AMS on German Vox channel don't you?) and i also noticed that Mr.Stützer has mixed it with Le Mans concept.

Eckoman
October 6th, 2006, 17:21
This is true!I also saw the program(you speak about the AMS on German Vox channel don't you?) and i also noticed that Mr.Stützer has mixed it with Le Mans concept.

Exactly. :)

India Whiskey Charlie
October 6th, 2006, 17:42
I also believe that the motor should make a bit more than the RS4's 420hp, due to the dry sump. In a wet sump, the crankshaft spins in a pool of oil in the oil pan below, while a dry sump allows alot less friction to those moving parts (and resulting power loss)...
I was under the impression that the oil stayed down in the sump--away from the crank--or at least, that's the plan. The only time that the crank can come in contact with the oil in the sump is when it is subjected to g-forces and the oil is pushed all to one side and gets too deep to stay down where it belongs, hence the whole big deal about windage trays and baffles and whatnot. Dry sumps don't make more power because the crank isn't swimming in the oil, but it keeps the crank from touching the oil (on accident), which keeps the oil from getting frothy, which keeps the oil lubricating. The dry sump also makes it possible to mount the engine lower in the chassis. That's about it.

m3fan
October 7th, 2006, 00:06
Does anyone know if the R8's rear spoiler moved like the 911 turbo?

sticky
October 7th, 2006, 07:58
Does anyone know if the R8's rear spoiler moved like the 911 turbo?
The spoiler raises at 75 mph and there is a button on the inside to move it as well.

Charles DLF
October 10th, 2006, 14:45
just saw a show called V6 on french TV (AB Moteurs), and the guy said the V10 would be 610bhp as wall, and that it would be a BI TURBO, how about that engine making it to the RS6 :wo: :wo: :wo:


That car is going to be FAST FAST FAST


Cheers all

Charles

gabbby
October 10th, 2006, 15:28
Welll.... this seems to be false. I think this is a journalistic hoax. V10, yes, but with something like 450 - 470 cv... no really more !

I should really, really suprised if Audi make a 600+ hp R8 !!! Because a such car is the end of the Lambo exlusivity in the groups... The V10 R8 will cost 120K euro, a 600 hp + should cost at least 140K 160K euros !

Gaby

Leadfoot
October 10th, 2006, 16:34
Guys, the R8 v10 will be N/A and will make 510bhp. This is less than the uprated Gallardo (560hp) and will also be heavier, so though it will be a seriously quick motorcar, it will just be that little bit slower than it big brother.

And that OK by me.:thumb:

m3fan
October 10th, 2006, 18:19
I agree with Leadfoot. Audi won't make the R8 more powerful than the Lambo Gallardo. But I still think the R8 look better then the Gallardo.

quattro Gmbh
October 11th, 2006, 11:32
gallardo is not a pure racing car at all.

audi r8 is made of lastest motorsports and racing technology and it has nothing to do with gallardo.

driving dynamics are far better than gallardo

the comptetitors are mid-engine ferrari models, ford gt even carrera gt not the damn gallardo or murcielago

gabbby
October 11th, 2006, 13:17
MMmhh... I don't think the R8 is so superior than its competitors ! The physics rules are for everyone. The R8 is too weighted to be as fast as its competitors...

So, lets wait for a sportier version...

Gaby

quattro Gmbh
October 11th, 2006, 13:46
weight is acceptable compare with mclaren slr, r8 weights 200 kg less than slr. gallardo has more than 1600 kg even 1650 with extras. murcielago around 1700 lp640 1800 kg. r8 will be aroung 1600 kg with some optionals only a few kgs more than a ford gt.

0-100 km 4.2 same as gallardo, r8's weight advantage can be easily seen here.

anyway r8 is a pure race car, gallardo is not a race car, they are completely different.

quattro Gmbh
October 11th, 2006, 14:03
The physics rules are for everyone.

yes but you have to make use of them.

r8 has much more improved chassis than the gallardo and that's only a part of the story.

gabbby
October 11th, 2006, 14:50
I hope you are true !

Gaby

m3fan
October 11th, 2006, 18:14
Did you guys hear about the new Corvette Blue Devil of the SS. Check it out on www.Worldcarfans.com. It's suppose to weigh at least 100lbs less then the current Z06(3180lbs). And it is suppose to have a supercharged 6.2 liter 650 horsepower. It's gonna be priced in the 100K range putting it right with the R8. I can imagine the preformance number are gonna be crazy.

quattro Gmbh
October 11th, 2006, 19:00
i've heard about it.

if r8's lightweight version is about to come, ss has no chance against it.

anyway corvette has never been a competitor in this class. even if it would be 1000 hp and only 1000 kg its a normal sports car, it lacks the engineering of a race car. not to worry about.