Anyone taken their RS6 on track?

[MichaelJP]

I'm still running mine in, but has anyone taken their RS6 on the racetrack yet?

If so how does it hold up? Tyres, brakes etc.?

Obviously it's pretty big and heavy for a track car, but it might be fun, especially on a rainy day:)

- MichaelJP

[MichaelJP]

Looks like no-one has, so I'll have to give it a try and report back:)

- MichaelJP

[Erik]

Good luck Michael.

Reports from EVO (clip scanned somewhere around here, search for EVO) and Motorjournalen (Swe TV) told us that the brakes will fade on you (like on any heavy sports car).

[Erik]

RS6 Avant from EVO's Fast Fleet:

"Date acquired - Sept 2002
Total mileage: 7180

Last month saw the RS6 on track for the first time and probably last time - by lunchtime its brakes were a smoking, grumbling mess.
With all the development work at the Nürburgting, I expected them to last longer, but obviously the Ring's got nothing on an evoactive day..."

But don't that let you down... :addict:

[MichaelJP]

Yeah, that figures really - I've been to the Ring with an S8 which is no racecar and you can drive quite fast round the flowing circuit without heavy use of the brakes.

Some short circuits would be much harder on the brakes.

Apparently though a team raced a modified RS6 at the Sebring 12 hour race and used the stock calipers and disks, presumably only changing pads and fluid, so the basic equipment can't be that bad. Maybe they also made extra cooling ducts?

- MichaelJP

[Erik]

Front vs. back on the RS6 Competition.

http://www-mtl.mit.edu/~tibbettj/audi-pics/2003_sebring/bigimages/DSC03620.jpg

http://www.audiclubsfl.com/images/Photos_RS6_Moroso/P3070036.JPG

[MichaelJP]

Interesting pictures - Erik, do you know if they did put extra cooling in for the front brakes, and what pads/fluid they used?

- MichaelJP

[Erik]

Originally posted by MichaelJP
Interesting pictures - Erik, do you know if they did put extra cooling in for the front brakes, and what pads/fluid they used?
- MichaelJP

http://www.championracing.net/Audi_RS6/home/audi_rs_6_main.htm

Don't know the exact answer to your question but something tells me they did something to cool them. Just look at the various intakes, plus whatever you can't see in the black areas.

http://www.championracing.net/Audi_RS6/archive/RS6_2003/pics/03SebRS6race_21.jpg

http://www.championracing.net/Audi_RS6/archive/RS6_2003/pics/03SebRS6race_01.jpg

Pretty cool picture

http://www.championracing.net/Audi_RS6/archive/RS6_2003/pics/03SebRS6race_28.jpg

[Erik]

More... as you can see the disc is different. I don't know which picture is from when but I guess they're looking at different setups or using different style on the 2 cars.
IIt will be interesting to see what they're using at the end of the season :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid54/p24614a58aed1d09d8f173246753cb66b/fc82a3c3.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid54/pb085044da9e8f28c0fa685fb7c18e88d/fc82a3bd.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid54/pf1294682e164902e9ff31e91d3d9dddf/fc82a3c0.jpg

Manual gearbox :D

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid54/p62d44c0b2c05d4ed477595949b3d6256/fc82a3c7.jpg

[Erik]

This is what MTM's system looks like

http://www.mtm-online.de/img/news/news_bild1_10.jpg

380 x 34mm

[avdh]

I have changed the brake fluid in my S6 to Castrol SRF.
I have been several times on the track and had no brake fade whatsoever. It's great.
Did the same for the S3, same story.

[Nordschleife]

With all due respect, I wouldn't call either the S3 or the S6 fast, in a track sense.
I have taken the RS6, with 800NM of torque around the Nordschleife, Hockenheim and Catalunya. I have also driven in it with such people as Walter Roehrl and Sepp Haider.
Based on my own experiences and listening to the development engineers, there are several conclusions to be drawn:

Test drivers use the brakes more sparingly than regular drivers. When Sepp or Walter drive these cars flat out, even at the Nordschleife, they use the brakes very very sparingly. So development cars do not get the brake work out you would expect. Solution - hire some of the loud mouth drivers from EVO (they know who they are, if they happen to read this) to drive like regular f*ckwits and really give the system a work out.

All big fast cars treat rotors, pads, tyres and wheels like consumables. most people on this list haven't adjusted to this fact of life. It it bothers you, drive something more modest, I hear Volvo and Saab make nice cars.

When demonstrating the RS6 to the press and interested "others", Audi was changing the rotors overnight.

There is no way the production brakes stand up to German Autobahn driving, slowing from 300 to 100 kph when some D*tchman pulls out in his 15 year old campervan without looking, kills the rotors. One fast trip of about 380 km completely destroyed my front rotors.

The production rotors overheat. There is no way that air can be forced into the rotor's internal ventilation slots, it has to be done from the centre and then accelerated outwards by the rotational effect, just go and look. To make matters worse, the automatic nature of the car means that the brakes are applied more frequently than would be the case woith a manual, and, the pads are comparatively small so that they hotspot and catch fire, which looks impressive but that is all.

The rear brakes on Audis are a functional joke. The cost cutting design whereby the hand brake uses the same calliper as the foot brake means that the rear pad has to be so hard, it does very little work. The accountants won the day. In the trade, VW Group has a reputation for negotiating supply contracts to the third decimal place. After an experience like that, I can't see many brake suppliers feeling like explaining the facts of life, in so far as they apply to the principles of automotive retardation.

Let us be quite clear, the series which Champion runs the RS6 in is not the most demanding in terms of technology. The cars were put together in a real hurry and it would be fair to say that the brake requirements were not able to be fully addressed in the time available. If you check their website, you will see that brakes have since been heavily revised.

Changing the brake fluid, changing the pads (I use Pagid Yellows), fitting steel lines, switching to the quattro GmbH 'Sport' rotors (cross-drilled), will not solve the RS6's problems. These are inherent in the design. The car needs new (two piece) rotors, with proper hats to help get air into the rotor and to soak away the heat, which has nowhere to go in the stock rotor.

A car as heavy and powerful as the RS6 needs proper brakes front and rear. Its expensive but cheaper in the long run, and they just might save your life, or somebody else's.

The guys at Audi and quattro are not fools, they do know all this, they also like riding in an RS6 with proper brakes, what a shame it has to be an after-market modification.

HTH

R+C

[avdh]

Originally posted by Nordschleife
With all due respect, I wouldn't call either the S3 or the S6 fast, in a track sense.


Oh really? Well, "with all due respect" let me disagree with you.
With a few mods (400 bhp), dropped suspension, and a bit more negative camber than original, I get my S6 around some of the track we have in South Africa, very, very close to E46 M3's, M5's (standard) and highly modified Subaru STi's. I am talking about a second or less around a 4.5 km track and less the half a second around a 2.5 km tight track.

I know the driver has a lot to do with it, but I don't think they were all that bad. Some of the time I could compare to, were done by car magazines.

I have had a run with a 250 kW E36 M3 (on the 2.5 km tight track) and our times were identical, and he is a hell of a good driver.

That's why I am rather concerned that magazines tests (Sport Auto, auto motor und sport ) did not find the RS6 to totally blast the current M5...
In fact it seems the E46 M3 is actually still faster than the RS6 at the track...

The Castrol SRF made a huge difference as far as brake fade is concerned, I did not say it made the brakes excellent.
They are still crappy, but somewhat adequate and even if they're smoking, they still brake with the SRF brake fluid.
However I am not a brake freak, with his foot on the pedal all too often.

[MichaelJP]

Nordshleife, you seem to know a fair bit about braking systems, what aftermarket brakes would you recommend for the RS6?

I wouldn't be too harsh on Audi though, car manufacturers rarely fit braking systems that are good enough for 300kph autobahn runs and racetracks, perhaps because of cost, but isn't it mainly that race brakes are harsh, noisy, wear quickly, usually need warming up and are generally unsuitable for urban driving.

The RS6 has above all to be a great all-rounder, excelling at town, country and highway driving, carrying 4 or 5 people and luggage in comfort at high speed. That's why I run it as my main daily driver and have another car for track use. (Caterham R300)

- MichaelJP

[Nordschleife]

Andre
You misunderstand me. Comparing the S6 and S3 to other luxo barges reinforces my point!
Fast cars in a track sense have a much higher power to weight ratio.

R+C

[Nordschleife]

Originally posted by MichaelJP
what aftermarket brakes would you recommend for the RS6?

I

Michael

You don't have to go to race brakes to get better braking performanced. In fact race brakes should be avoided for road use.

What I suggest is dependent on the depth of your pocket! A full front and rear upgrade, with additional cooling ducts is rather expensive. It also depends on how hard the car will be driven. Some people have found switching the rotors to be effective, others have gone the whole hog.

R+C