New RS6: Signs of live.

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Benman
Qisha,

If they actually achieve a number close to that figure, it would be a fantastically quick sedan! Nothing is impossible I guess.

Ben

Ben,

Not impossible but highly unlikely.

[Qisha]

If they actually achieve a number close to that figure, it would be a fantastically quick sedan! Nothing is impossible I guess.

Dear Ben,

in short terms, at the end it is supposed to match these numbers closely.

@Leadfoot

the V8 Bi-Turbo concept was droped early because it was not developing the wanted values.

@RXBG

the new RS6 Engine will not be used in the R8.

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Qisha
Dear Ben,

in short terms, at the end it is supposed to match these numbers closely.

@Leadfoot

the V8 Bi-Turbo concept was droped early because it was not developing the wanted values.

@RXBG

the new RS6 Engine will not be used in the R8.

Qisha,

To match the numbers you are saying, it would have to be producing close to or even over 600hp.:bigeyes: surely not, this would demand a very big and heavy transmission system that would increase to ready heavy RS6. I know you can make a heavy car handle but it's harder to make a heavy car change direction as easy and if this is the case, it will always play second fiddle to the M5 as the driver's car in the class.

When you say it willnot be used in the R8, do you mean in the form that is in the RS6 eg. Bi-Turbo V10 or do you mean the V10 will not be used?

[M!]

To beat the M5 and not just in speed, the new RS6 has to be lighter than the M5.
If a car weights more than 2000kg(witch i think the new RS6 is gonna do) it doesent matter if you you have 550 or 600 bhp in your engine.The driver experience is just lost with a heavy car.
Even the M5 is to heavy but atleast its under 1900kg and should be considered god for a 4 door salooncar.
If only Audi havent had 4wheeldrive........

[QuattroFun]

The 5.0 TFSI (not 5.2 but based on Gallardo engine) in the Le Mans/Nuovolari concepts yielded 610/600PS and 750Nm whilst the Audi 4.2 TFSI in Pikes Peak gave 500PS/630Nm. These are probably close to the peak in terms of what can reliably taken out in production cars and more than are taken out from Bentley/old RS6 so it has to be 5.2 TFSI for the RS6 - but more than 600PS in RS6 production trim still sounds too wild for me. Moreover, the RS6 front end must probably be bespokely enlarged to swallow the big engine and cater for cooling, which adds to costs.

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by M!
To beat the M5 and not just in speed, the new RS6 has to be lighter than the M5.
If a car weights more than 2000kg(witch i think the new RS6 is gonna do) it doesent matter if you you have 550 or 600 bhp in your engine.The driver experience is just lost with a heavy car.
Even the M5 is to heavy but atleast its under 1900kg and should be considered god for a 4 door salooncar.
If only Audi havent had 4wheeldrive........

I agree with a lot of what you are saying with exception to the last it. I believe the AWD is what make Audi appeal to a more educated customer base than either the M5 or E55AMG. The advantage that AWD gives a hi-performance car over it's RWD rivals is the ability to use it's power more of the time and in more weather conditions. Yes RWD can provide more fun and as a toy thing it's the ideal choice, but as a all-in one car, the Quattro is the only choice.

The M5 has not got BMW's holy grail of 50/50 weight balance, it's more like 54/46% and being rwd this means the transition from understeer to oversteer is not as smooth as a car with 50/50% and this is why it's improvement over the M3 around the ring was so small when you consider it's performance advantage. The RS6 will probably have a weight balance close to the M5 but with Quattro it will control it's under/oversteer better, so will be a lot easier to drive quickly and will more than likely produce a better lap time as well if a little less entertaining in the process.

This is why I said it will be playing second fiddle to the M5, but only in the eyes of the motoring journalists and their magazines. Everyone here knows who the real king of the road will be.:king:

[M!]

Just wondering. How come Audi always comes with their beasts at the end of the production of the cars?

Look att the last RS6, it came out just befor a new A6 was about to be introduced.

Same with the RS4 B7, it came out this year, but a new A4 is about to be introduced shortly.

and the new RS6 is coming out in 2008 and is also shortly before a new A6 is coming out.

Why so late?

BMW always comes out with their beasts maximum of 2years after a new model.Witch makes the car feel new for longer before a new one is introduced.

Jus a thaught....

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by M!
Just wondering. How come Audi always comes with their beasts at the end of the production of the cars?

Look att the last RS6, it came out just befor a new A6 was about to be introduced.

Same with the RS4 B7, it came out this year, but a new A4 is about to be introduced shortly.

and the new RS6 is coming out in 2008 and is also shortly before a new A6 is coming out.

Why so late?

BMW always comes out with their beasts maximum of 2years after a new model.Witch makes the car feel new for longer before a new one is introduced.

Jus a thaught....

M!,

I understand where you are coming from with that one. You are partly right, remember Audi do bring out there S models in the first two years of production but the RS models seem to be the swan song of the model or is it a way of helping the sales of the model nearing the end of production?

I reckon from now on the RS model will play a bigger role in future models, talk is the TT will have a RS model within the next two years.

[M!]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
M!,

I understand where you are coming from with that one. You are partly right, remember Audi do bring out there S models in the first two years of production but the RS models seem to be the swan song of the model or is it a way of helping the sales of the model nearing the end of production?

I reckon from now on the RS model will play a bigger role in future models, talk is the TT will have a RS model within the next two years.

It´s just that you dont want to bye a brand new car, even if it has 600bhp and is the top od the line when the modell is being replaced with a new one just a year after.
You want your car to feel new for longer.
Todays RS4 is a hell of a car, but its built on a old model, just facelifted, it starts already feel old. Magen how old it would feel when the new A4 comes out next year!

Well better lat then never right?

[Benman]

Originally posted by Leadfoot
Qisha,

To match the numbers you are saying, it would have to be producing close to or even over 600hp.:bigeyes: surely not, this would demand a very big and heavy transmission system that would increase to ready heavy RS6. I know you can make a heavy car handle but it's harder to make a heavy car change direction as easy and if this is the case...

Oh, I don't know... the Veyron seems to cope with it's weight pretty well...

Ben

[moldowan]

All i know is that when i went to the dealer here is san antonio I said I want to be 1st on the list. their response was " you are 8th!!!!"
seem's there are lots of people down here that got wind of it and want one already. A few are spurs players etc..... One is tommy lee jones (jerk has his name on every frikin new car out-LOL) he got the 1st e63 amg here is SA, TX too!
Funny because they had 2 rs6's sit on their lot in 2003 for a long time, and they don't charge over msrp-EVER!
bottom line this is the only car i want or will trade my cls55 amg for!!!
My bet is 525-550 hp in a biturbo v10. remember the new M5 due in 2010 or 2011 will have 550hp according to the Sept. issue of automobile mag.
-marc

[Leadfoot]

Originally posted by Benman
Oh, I don't know... the Veyron seems to cope with it's weight pretty well...

Ben

Ben,

You have to remember that the Veyron is mid-engined with a better weight balance than what the RS6 will have. Most of it's weight is over the rear wheels as opposed to the RS6 where most of it's weight is over the fronts. The Veyron will be much better at directional changes due to this fact.

I am not doubting that the new RS6 will be an amazing car and will move the game on from where the old car left off, but at some point weight has to play a part in producing a great handling car.

At present no one know what Audi has planned for the bodywork of the RS6. Will it use a lot more alloy up front compared to the rest of the range, what suspension system will it employ, will it get S-Tronic transmission? All points that could answer in what direction Audi is taking the RS6.

I still think Audi hasn't made it's decision on how much power the RS6 will have. Me bet is between 525-550hp, just enough to give it an advantage over the M5, but leaving enough scope to be added if and when BMW up it's game. We are starting to approach to point when this amount of power is to much to have in a RWD saloon car, just look at all of the 500+hp Mercs, every one of them work their ESP systems to over load when full throttle is used.

[Benman]

Originally posted by Leadfoot


I am not doubting that the new RS6 will be an amazing car and will move the game on from where the old car left off, but at some point weight has to play a part in producing a great handling car.

Agreed. Cars are getting heavier and heavier. Just look at the "little" A3. the fully loaded 3.2 lists at 3700lbs! That is crazy! We are getting close to having a 4000lb A3 on our roads! So I agree that weight should be focused on more than raw power.

Ben

[chutia]

moldowan-
You day you own a cls55 amg? I sold my RS6 after owning it for 3 months due to its well-known issues. But MB has a deservedly horrible build quality/dependability reputation. A guy I know who is a senior service mgr at the largest MB dealership in Newport Beach, CA (largest seller of MB's in the country) told me that the build quality and dependability and MB's standing behind this car's problems simply stinks. I'm currently seriously buying a cls 55 amg until something better (new RS6??) comes along. Any comments from you would be most helpful and thanks in advance.

[moldowan]

chutia,
I was in the same boat as you 3 months ago! I really wanted to buy Dave Stasek's rs6 in ohio. after reading about the problems with the rs6's and recently having serious issues with a cts-v I was really skepical and passed on his awesome missano red beast!
I had heard of many issues with the E55 as well but most of them were "electronic gremlins" but considering the 03's are going to be out of warranty soon I thought it was a "safer" route to go. My folks have driven MB's for 20 plus years with only my dads 2000 S class having problems.
To date I believe this cls55 is the BEST car I have ever driven/owned. I have had no issues with 7k on the OD now. The only item i believe the rs6 has on the cls55 is the suspension- it's tuned a bit sportier. Somewhere between my cts-v and the cls55.
the cls55 is really fast!!! In san antonio, Tx I take it to the dragstrip aqnd in 100 degree heat and 90% humidity I can run 12.6- 12.7 all day long. In cooler climates like 50-60 degrees I think it will run in the 12.3- 12.4 range.
many people on the MB list are not impressed with the new 63 engine and that is the reason I went with the "older" 55 kompressor engine. Awesome torque of the line!!!!!!
one of the recent auto mags had a long term update of a new a6 3.2 and it looked like it had many quality issues as well.
Bottom line I think MB's quality is now back to where it was before. they know they slacked off and are back on the ball.
My advice is get the cls55 its awesome!
I still will get the new rs6 regardless cause I love the rs line, truth be told i wish the old rs6 didn't have the issues cause i really wanted one!
-Marc

[chutia]

moldowan-
thanks indeed for your response and candor. The RS6 was the second Audi I owned; the first being the venerable 5000T when it first came out of the skies like a spaceship, completely setting a new standard in body design and cD. Mechanically, however, it was an abject disaster and a joke! W/ great hesitation, I bought the RS6, loved the car for what it aspires to be. And then again: another dependability, spare parts availability, AoA hubris/stonewalling, untrained dealer techs, etc. bad experience. Too bad, really. But I cut my losses short and got rid of the RS6 quickly. Again, too bad as it was a blast to drive.
Enough of that>>>
OK, so no real problems w/ the cls55 that you have had and, in your experience, MB is finally getting better re build quality and dependability and dealer service. I hope you are right, b/c the latest NADA dealer survey and the JD Powers surveys both show the tier one German cars and makers to be pathetically low on the above counts. Lexus is obviously the perennial (12th year in a row) #1. BMW was the highest ranked German maker, but its score in terms of problems/100 cars was twice Lexus'; then it was a more pathetic showing for MB, and Audi was simply a joke. I did read the Automobile mag write-up on the A6 long term test; it simply supports these findings. EVERY Audi owner I know has nothing good to say re dependability or owner satisfaction: "it's always at the dealership getting fixed for something."

I'll go check out the cls55. IF the new RS, whenever it debuts, has a better track record, well. I'll certainly look into it, w/ great skepticism re its build quality and dependability. Thanks!

[Qisha]

Dear Friends,

some news:

the DL 501, 7-Speed DSG Gearbox, will go in Production at the end of 2007. This Gearbox will make it into all "High Power" Audi Cars. VW will use the same, called DQ 500. If you already watched the R8 catch up Video, you can get a idea...

The long run RS6 Mules use the close to Production Engine Specs. V10 Bi-Turbo, 580 HP, 740NM.

[Bomber]

WAAUUUUUWWW!!