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Thread: Update on new RS6

  1. #1
    Registered User tailpipe's Avatar
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    Update on new RS6

    Just chatting with a friend on their way to New York show.

    Everyone is worried about the next RS6 because the talk on the street is that the S6 is a bit of a damp squib. It could so easily develop 480-500 bhp, so no one understands why it doesn't. (The obvious answer is trhat it would have been too close to the new RS6.) Also the ride has generally been criticised for being crude and less well sorted than RS4's. So the S6 is seen as a marketing man's car not a sports car afficionado's car. Consequently, dealers everywhere are saying either up the power on the S6 or bring the next RS6 out sooner.

    The problem for Audi is that its new model realese calendar is full. Deliveries to dealers look something like this: Q7 arriving in time for summer, followed by RS4 Avant and Cabrio late summer, TT in September, Le Mans for Christmas, A5 for March, and then there's the B8 A4. I wonder where the RS6 will fit in? It looks like being a 2008 model year car.

    In the meantime, RS6 prototypes continue to be seen being tested both in Germany and elsewhere. Audi should tease us with a sanctioned release of a spy shot that will enable photoshop gurus to give us some automotive pornography or at least a good idea of the real thing.

    In terms of spec, I am hearing confirmation of a V-10 twin turbo developing 530-550 bhp, i.e. well above the M5*. Given Audi's recent experience with both Lamborghini Gallardo and S8/S6, tuning the engine is proving to be easy. The challenge is to deliver performance and economy. That said, expect no compromise in terms of go. I find it hard to believe, but they are shooting for a 0-100 kph of around 4.0 - 4.1 seconds!!!!!! with an ungoverned top speed is just south of 200 mph.

    Like RS4, expect it to shed weight via extensive use of aluminium. Its party piece, apart from the engine, will be the suspension set-up and ride control.

    I am hearing that both manual and automatic options will be offered, but not DSG, bcause it doesn't go with current A6 transmission system.

    Comments and descriptions heard among insiders include:

    "If Lamborhini produced a wagon/ estate version of the Murcialago, it would be an RS6 Avant."

    "The basic A6 is a much better start point for the RS6 than the B7 A4 was for the RS4. So, if you thought RS4 was good, you ain't seen nothin' yet!!!" (I'd like to know how you say that in German)?

    The bad news is likely to be the price.
    ____________________________________________

    *You may remember that BMW had quite a lot of problems with early M5 engine reliability? They reduced the power on early production cars without telling anyone while a fix was found. The latest M5's coming off the line have the fix and cars that have been dyno tested are developing in excess of 520 bhp. BMW is saying nothing, because it wants people to think it is doing this with a 507 bhp car. I think the power increase was necessary to distance M5 from RS4.

  2. #2
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    interesting............
    I was in a bmw dealer here in austin TX and they said the 2007 model year should be in dealers in a month or so.
    they said all new orders will be 2007 Model years. so why in april are they making 2007 cars?????
    I was considering a M5 but............. really like audi's better and the rs6 @ 550hp is a no brainer. so the redesign of the A6 body is 2009?????? and the rs6 is expected in mid to late 2008?????
    I'll wait if i have to, but if you check old treads everyone thought the current rs4 would come out 1 year ago, wonder how off the mark we are for a rs6 release? I hope it isn't spring of 2009!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #3
    Moderator Benman's Avatar
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    Re: Update on new RS6

    Originally posted by tailpipe
    "So, if you thought RS4 was good, you ain't seen nothin' yet!!!" (I'd like to know how you say that in German)?

    Deshalb wenn Sie gedacht haben, dass der RS 4 gut, Sie ain war' hat t nothin gesehen' noch or: Deshalb wenn Sie gedacht haben, dass der RS 4 gut war, haben Sie noch nichts nicht gesehen

    R8 will not be out by Christmas and like moldowan mentions, we all thought RS 4 would be here a lot earlier, so expect a similar story with the RS 6. Will be out right before new body change, just like last time.

    Ben
    Einstein once said, "I want to know God's thoughts, the rest are details."
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    Registered User QuattroFun's Avatar
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    That was a good one, Benman. Thx, Tailpipe, for the update. Well, very much looking forward for the new RS6 and the current A6 basis may be good, but there is no escaping that the RS6 will still be heavy as a pig & still over 5m long no matter what amount of lightweight components they use...

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    Registered User Qisha's Avatar
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    So, if you thought RS4 was good, you ain't seen nothin' yet!!!" (I'd like to know how you say that in German)?
    "also wenn sie glauben das der RS4 gut ist, dann haben sie noch gar nichts gesehen"

    I remember what a person close to the RS6 II developing crew said:

    "...gegen den neuen ist der alte wie ein Spielzeug Auto".

    Translation:

    "...compared to the new one, the old one looks like a toy car".

    No news about the production start, still KW22/2007(28.05.2007). Delivery could be late 2007.

  6. #6
    Registered User tailpipe's Avatar
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    Qisha i am glad you've heard the same thing about release date for RS6.

    I would add to the other comments above that we need to remember the RS4 is VERY late. Much later than Audi had envisaged. Remember it got shown at Geneva 2005 in March and everyone was talking about September delivery. That was before melting cylinder head blocks and other development problems.

    Of course, this doesn't change the fundamental problem: RS models do generally arrive far too late in the model cycle compared to BMW M models. I actually complained in person to someone very senior at Audi about this last year. I got a polite nod from this chap, who incidently had previously worked at BMW.

    We'll see.

    As for Ben's and Qisha's translations.




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    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=4630473290

    Maybe that's all these cars are really worth considering all the trouble they have (yes, I realize the auction is not over yet)??!!

  8. #8
    Moderator Benman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Qisha

    I remember what a person close to the RS6 II developing crew said:

    "...gegen den neuen ist der alte wie ein Spielzeug Auto".

    Translation:

    "...compared to the new one, the old one looks like a toy car".
    :MTM: :MTM: :MTM: :MTM:

    If that's true, I'll want one!!!

    Ben
    Einstein once said, "I want to know God's thoughts, the rest are details."
    Ron Paul Fan

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    Do not buy this car under any circumstances. You will deeply regret it.

  10. #10
    Moderator Benman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by chutia
    Do not buy this car under any circumstances. You will deeply regret it.
    Huh? Why not?
    Einstein once said, "I want to know God's thoughts, the rest are details."
    Ron Paul Fan

  11. #11
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    simply read all the issues that folks who own this car have with it and the manufacturer. they are actually understatements, but, i know, you won't believe it until you own one. than it is too late. cavaet emptor.

  12. #12
    Moderator Benman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by chutia
    simply read all the issues that folks who own this car have with it and the manufacturer. they are actually understatements, but, i know, you won't believe it until you own one. than it is too late. cavaet emptor.
    I own a RS 6. I love the car, its fantastic! In fact, there is no other sedan I'd rather have as my family car. Having said that, I'm not blind. I realize there are others who have issues with their RS 6s. In fact, some very serious (Mike and Paul to name two). But the fact that they've even kept theirs, proves the car is very desireable! If it wasn't, they would have lemon lawed it looooong ago. Afterall, it is their right to do so.

    My point is, even the owners who have problems, still want the car. True, they don't want it in the condition theirs is currently in, but they still long for the day when their car runs like a RS 6 should!

    The Next Gen RS 6 will be no different. There will be unlucky ones that end up with the problem childs, but the vast majority of owners will have a good experience. No, its not fair, but neither is anything else. Its always a game of odds, even if you're driving something as reliable as a Honda or Toyota.

    Out of the what, 5000+ owners of RS 6s, how many are actually posting they have serious issues? 10? 20? 50? Even if the answer is 50, that's only 1%, and even 100 is only 2%.

    Like I said, its not fair, but to be expected that some "bite the dust" and next round could very well be my turn. All we can hope is that the dealers are better prepared by quattro GmbH and Audi AG this time...

    Ben
    Einstein once said, "I want to know God's thoughts, the rest are details."
    Ron Paul Fan

  13. #13
    Registered User tailpipe's Avatar
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    Benman,

    You are so right in your analysis.

    When the RS6 was launched it incorporated a lot of new technologies, particularly electronic driver aids, that were still in their infancy. The problem was how to get such systems to work well together. Many of the issues encountered have now been resolved and on the whole Audi has been pretty good in fixing them for owners who have enountered problems.

    My heart goes out to owners in the USA who have had nightmare ownership experiences. I think this is a legacy of the previous management team at Audi USA, most of whom were axed at the beginning of 2005. Where individuals have not received fair treatment to fix defects that relate to defective manufacture, I believe the only recourse is a class action by a group of owners experiencing the same problems. My advice, however, is to be firm and polite. Beligerence always antagonises. I hope this doesn't sound condescending to people who have tried and got nowhere, but it is a tactic that has always worked for me, as a former BMW owner.

    Moreover, the next RS6 is likely to incorporate many technologies that are now mature, particularly DRC. I confidently predict that the next RS6 will be every bit as desirable as the last one, but it should also be a whole lot more reliable.

    As I have probably made clear, I would like a really powerful but frugal diesel in mine rather than a V-10, but I think whatever it offers it'll be beyond all expectations.

  14. #14
    Registered User QuattroFun's Avatar
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    I see the point of wishing for a diesel RS6 up to a point. But me thinks cars like the RS6 should be exclusive, expensive, Audi's best shot & top gun and thus highly emotional. Diesel power is very PC, functional, even fun to drive with all the torque and may win the day eventually, but otherwise the emotion and thrill will severely be left out...as it will - albeit to a much lesser extent - be with V10 TT vs. V10 NA.

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    Gentlemen-
    I completely respect each of your experiences and your own feelings about this car, and for some or many of you, the near-adulation that you have for this car. I certainly hope you continue to enjoy your experience with this car.

    For myself, this car has been an abject failure, as has been the bellicose and stand-offish stance of the dealership in terms of rapid problem solution. One buys a car, or indeed any other fairly expensive toy, for pleasure. Not pain. The systemic failures both with this car and Audi management of the affected owners are well documented in this forum.

    One of the gentlemen (benman, I believe) had stated that only perhaps 1-5% of owners have problems out of 5.000. Consider two observations: 1. I don't know that this forum has 5,000 registered, acrive members who post to this (nor probably any other board on this car). It appears to have < 500, of which the vast majority have posted < 5 times ever...... and 2. many, many bad things and experiences are not reported, especially formally on this board (or any other). Hence, I think there is a lot, and unknowable, amount of underreporting of problems. These are empirical observations and not intended to start any heated diatribes or pushback.

  16. #16
    Moderator Benman's Avatar
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    Originally posted by chutia
    One buys a car, or indeed any other fairly expensive toy, for pleasure.
    You are absolutely, 100% correct and I'm sorry to hear that you are one of the effected owners. In no way, shape or form, am I making light of your situation. If I was in your shoes (or Paul's or Mike's) I'd be ROYALLY pissed!

    Originally posted by chutia

    One of the gentlemen (benman, I believe) had stated that only perhaps 1-5% of owners have problems out of 5.000. Consider two observations:
    Again, I do feel your pain and I'm not asserting all of the problems get reported. But it would be reasonable to assume (I know, I know) that at least the majority do. Also, you're correct that the 5000+ owners are not posting here (although they should), but the vast majority post somewhere, and yet, you really don't hear about more than a few dozen cases (perhaps as high as 100 different cars).

    In this day and age, customer satisfaction is the most important feature and when someone doesn't get it, they're quick to let others know about it (as would I). That's the reasoning behind me assuming (which one shouldn't really do) that its a safe bet that "only" 2% or so get screwed. Again, that is not a fair deal and I truely feel sorry for the ones that do get it (especially ones like Paul who I've personally met on several occasions and can vouch for being a Class A Guy), but is a sad truth. Innocent people get screwed. I wish it wasn't so, but it is.

    Hopefully, Audi (quattro) can get the second generation RS 6 to have less than half of ONE percent of the run develop problems. That would be an amazing feat. But even with that figure, if 6000 cars are built, that means 30 people will still get screwed! 30 people who will spend more than $100K and end up with a very bad taste in their mouth. I sure hope its not you (if you decide to get a RS 6MkII) or anyone else on this forum (well, maybe Nordschleife:trash: ), but we won't know till its too late.

    I am sorry to hear though when others have issues. Always makes me feel guilty for having such a trouble free experience.

    Ben
    Einstein once said, "I want to know God's thoughts, the rest are details."
    Ron Paul Fan

  17. #17
    Registered User QuattroFun's Avatar
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    So I am happy with my RS4 and it is objectively fast against the speedo & clock - but truth told, dare I say it, it does not feel quite fast enough. Give me a RS6 with TT V10 developing 600bhp & monster torque and excellent handling, please!

  18. #18
    Registered User Bauer's Avatar
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    Like RS4, expect it to shed weight via extensive use of aluminium.
    Shed weight? The US version has been confirmed at 3957lbs!?! How is that shedding weight when the B7 S4 weights in at 3710lbs?

    B7 RS4 specifications

    http://academy.accessaudi.com/files/...S4.pdf#search='audi%20B7%20RS4%20specifications'

    B7 S4 specifications

    http://www.audiworld.com/news/05/los...cs.pdf#search='audi%20B7%20S4%20specifications'
    Bauer

    07 A4 2.0T quattro STaSIS Challenge Package
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