RS4 to target BMW M5

[marks6]

I realise you can't do a blind test for driving different cars, but one of us on this forum will have to be very good at driving to notice 1.6 inches difference. The BMW and the Audi are great cars in S, RS and M guise. 4 WD will give you an edge in wet or icy weather with the correct tyres and a good driver. However 4 WD will not help you brake faster... and 4 WD on ice with summer tyres doesn't help that much more in bends and anytime you are heading downhill.

In the real world there will be very little difference between the cars other than people's specific preferences. 4 WD helps many of us overcome our deficiencies when driving, we can apply acceleration more quickly knowing the 4WD will help us out. However most racecars that I know of are 2WD and are nearly all RWD... now surely we aren't trying to say they are all wrong? 2WD and 4WD are different experiences and generally have different styles of driving on a track. On a public road there's not a lot of difference between the 2.

For Audi to improve the handling it's not just about shifting the engine back 1.6 inches, it's about lightening the load which is simply too much at present. I'd quite like an RS and a couple of M's from the new range and a months pass to the Ring and a few other circuits to test them. All those in favour please sign up and I'll petition the manufacturers

[R8isGreat]

I know this is a little late but I just saw this.

Nordschleife wrote
"Fortunately, for those of us who like cars, the US market is becoming less important for the world's car manufacturers.
Am I being harsh on the US, no, just realistic. Porsche is still the exception in that the US market is very important, for the others the several European markets and China are much more significant in agregate, prices are maintained and currency risk is avoided. Why does this matter, mostly because in an automotive sense, the US is on another planet, different rules about everything, from safety, to emissions to measurement standards, different expectations about service and warranties, different driving capabilities, different returns on sales. Almost every really interesting car from leading European manufacturers has not been imported into the US, GT3RS, M3CSL, RS4, RS2, TVR, the list goes on. These cars are good for several reasons, in part because they are not compromised by the requirements of the US market. If you want really interesting cars hope that they are not Federalised and get an expert to bring them in through the grey market. Your outlook on the world is entirely UScentric, do try to see beyond the borders of the 48 States and adopt a global view of what is happening in the automotive world. The soccer-mom is a US phenomenon, in the rest of the world the game is football and its played by men, you might have heard of 'the beautiful game'. Your point about quattro offering alternative suspensions, is entirely irrelevant, their firmer setups are aimed at drivers usually resident in Germany who are able to take advantage of that country's mostly excellent roads, the standard cars have suspension which is too stiff for the US market, so there is usually a selection of suspension set ups available. I am not knocking the US, nor am I anti-US, I am realistic about automobiles in the US and the ethos surrounding them. As a former Nevada Honor Guard officer, a descendent of a President of the Continental Congress, and the happy son, brother, uncle and main squeeze of US citizens and residents, it would be odd if I were knocking the US, even though it is often very difficult to persuade my European and Antipodean friends and relations that the country has not taken on the mantle of the 'Evil Empire'."

Last time I checked Audi sales figures for the US were just a little behind Europe. Let us also stress that the US is a country, Europe is a continent. Also accusing someone of being "US centric" seems like an attempt to divert from the point. Americans are no less US centric than Nordschleife is Euro centric. It cannot be true that the US market has both been ignored and at the sametime altered all European marketing strategies. While it may be true that cars in the US are not the same as they are in Europe, this is based on the manufactures choice. If the American people want a good ride in their car, cold air conditioning, and comfortable seats out of a $70, ooo car, I dont think that is unreasonable. If We are to blame for desiring Luxary out of a $85,000 car, I also think that is reasonable. Nordschleife you are not being realistic. You are only again reveling your bias against the US which you have done on countless other occasions on this site. You refer to adopting a "Global View" but what you really mean is adopt a European view. Anytime the US refuses to adopt this European View we are not being "realistic."
As for the Evil Empire comment, I will once again knock that one up to your ignorance. I say let History be the judge. Let us remove the US from the european scene during the first half of the 20th century and see how things turn out. How quickly do you forget our sacrifice!

LET US NOT EVER ENTER IN TO A POLITICAL EUROPE Vs THE US DEBATE ON THIS SITE!!! I love Europe and will move there in the future.

[Benman]

OK,

I agree that a political debate is not what this forum is about. I don't think however that was the point (I may very well be mistaken). We do have to admit however (as American citizens) that we are biased as to what info is feed to us here in the States. For example, take Josh at Achtuning in Washington.

I got a chance to meet Josh (owner of www.achtuning.com ) last April at the So Cal vs Nor Cal. He imported a beautiful stock Avus Silver RS 4. He then informed me that all told he had spent well over $10,000.00 in Fed "fees" and had spent over an entire YEAR will all the "red tape" issues! That money spent was in addition to the cost of shipping the car to the States!

So what did the US government do exactly to make his car "safer" and "compliant" to our standards? Nothing! There was no reinforcing of the doors and bumpers or making the engine more "emmisions correct", or anything else. Why? Because it is ALREADY as safe as any car sold here! For crying out loud, that vehicle was BORN in a country that knows the owners will have it up to 155 mph (and even above!) on a regular basis! But yet we as American citizens are told that many cars can't be imported to this country due to "safety standards".

Just ask your average friend (that doesn't know about cars) and they will agree to the government propaganda. They will say "oh, that car, yes I have heard of that car, but it doesn't meet our emmisions, or safety standards, etc...". I know this to be true because I have had many conversations with individuals about different cars they would like to see here but can not be imported due to certain "standards" that these cars due not meet.

The relation this has to what Nordschleife said is this: if Audi (or for that matter, any manufacture) has to pay our government money for essentially nothing (becuase there is NO improvement of "safety features") for each car it imports, than there has to be a way they "recoup" there costs, i.e. cheapening of the vehicles.

I have a RS 6 and although I don't overly mind the seats I KNOW what the real ones feel like. I have sat and rode in the real ones while in Germany, and can tell you that those were the ones we should have got. But we didn't. Why? Because we were "told" they didn't meet the FED standards. Really? That's interesting, because nearly the identical seats made their way into the S4 only a few months later. Same EXACT reason we didn't get the Avant. Because Audi didn't feel like spending the additional $4.5 million it would have took to "federalize" the Avant. Why? We already have the S6 4.2 Avant that passed the FED exam. Well, that is because the RS 6 Avant is an entirely "different" model and therefor must be "federalized" all over again (i.e. hand the government money for essentially nothing). So we here in the States don't get the car and then proceed to BLAME AUDI?!? Most main stream people (including myself just a few years ago) don't get it. We think it is because of the manufactures greed but in fact it has much more to due with the governments greed (this is not to say that car manufactures are saints because we KNOW that's not the case).

This is what I gathered from Nordschleife's comments. I am also not bashing the US. I am a direct decendant of George Clymer. He is in fact a signer of The Declaration of Independance. My family has lived in the country since the early 1700's. I like living here but at the same time do not blindly accept the propaganda that is crammed down my throat by the main stream media.

It is a real shame that we do not get the really cool stuff that is offered in other countries. It most likely is going to happen AGAIN with the RS 4. There are many board members here that are both excited and anticipating the arrival of their new "Little Beast". Sadly it will be a compromised Beast just as the RS 6 was. There is already talk of us not getting the seats or the 19" wheels(hmm... sounds familiar ). What else future owners of the RS 4 will be denied remains to be seen.

Please understand that this is also frustrating with Audi and quattro as well. When I was visiting Neckarsulm, my hostess informed me that the US was indeed the most difficult country in the WORLD to deal with, yet ironically, the cars sent to the US never had any "improvements" over the European counter parts. Just cool stuff that had to be ommited .

I hope this post doesn't ruffle any feathers as it is certainly not my intention. Just a rant I suppose. Well... rant's over.

Ben

[Nordschleife]

All I'll say is, check the Audi Sales figures, the US is about the same as Britain, a tiny country by comparison.

R+C

[R8isGreat]

Im just the opposite, My roots run deep into Gremany and Italy from my father and mother. This is in no way a polemic against Europe. My only point is that Audi is not compromising its European cars because of America. I agree that the US has so much red tape it is impossible to do about anything. But again this has nothing to do with European models in Europe. Hope no offense was taken. Again, this is not about Europeans, it is about some thinking that AMerican red tape makes Audi bad in Europe, and I dont see that.

[bilbozilla]

Originally posted by Benman

Just ask your average friend (that doesn't know about cars) and they will agree to the government propaganda. They will say "oh, that car, yes I have heard of that car, but it doesn't meet our emmisions, or safety standards, etc...".

I don't have any "average" friends , but I'm afraid it's the majority of US drivers that don't meet the safety standards. In speaking with local highway patrol, I was told many people feel "safer" in the left lane, as there is only 1 lane of traffic they can run into.

About 10 years ago, I brought in a new out of state car into California and had to pay $600 for an emissions sticker. They didn't run any tests, they just made me pay for the sticker and stick it under the hood. I was now able to register the car in California. 3 or 4 years later, I received a check in the mail from the state for $300, as the "tax" was ruled illegal.

The EPA still thinks that greenhouse gasses destroy the ozone, not to mention the fact that producing hydrogen for the "hydrogen economy" produces as much pollution as burning fossil fuels - they get the hydrogen from natural gas and petroleum.

It sounds like it's time to do some housecleaning in this country.

[Benman]

Originally posted by R8isGreat
Again, this is not about Europeans, it is about some thinking that American red tape makes Audi bad in Europe, and I dont see that.

I agree with you on that. I've only visited Europe and I don't live there, so I can't say for sure, but I certainly didn't see our crap Stateside effecting the quality of products on the otherside of the pond. I would hope that they would continue to make cars the RIGHT way and make America come around. Not the other way!

Ben