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Thread: RS6 Out of time?

  1. #1
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    RS6 Out of time?

    So I've accumulated about 1200 miles since I did the timing belt on the car and have been noticing some odd noises coming from the car at idle. The chain sounds like it's a tad loose, but under part throttle (>1000 RPM) it seems to go away and sound fine.

    I am getting a flashing CEL occasionally on start-up indicating misfire, further VCDS'ing lead me to a P0300, and cylinder 5, 6, 7, and 8 misfire... So bank 2. No camshaft codes though.

    Read Measuring Blocks Group 91, 92, and 93 as well as a 3rd gear log and it is indicating the same thing, bank 2 is off.

    So my question, judging from the log, is the cam out of time, or is it the adjuster? Either way the front of the car will come off, but I'd like to know if I should order a new cam chain tensioner.

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    The phase position numbers in block 93 are pretty far off, I believe they are supposed to be +/- 4cf, but also no more than 4cf between them. You have a difference of 19cf!

    I had a similar issue in mine, although not as bad. To fix it, I loosened each cam sprocket and adjusted them slightly until I got both banks to zero.

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    Belt up front was done but did you check your chain tensioner pads in the back of the head?
    BB GT28's w/ Tial Wastegates, Full 3" Open Exhaust, Wagners, Billet Triple Disk Converter, Built Trans, Exedy Friction Disks, ECU/TCU Tuned, 450/AEM400/1000cc/AFPR, E85, R8 Coils, Nubcake Tuned. Fastest RS6 in the USA :)

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    It could be the cam chain tensioner pads. Mine were destroyed on the same bank after a timing belt job.

    When you put the engine at TDC, bank 2 has lifters still under tension that can cause the cams to jump. Couple that with sitting for days or even weeks before the job without oil pressure there is a chance the tensioner doesn't have any hydraulic pressure and is providing the chain with just enough excess slack to smack the old brittle pads and shatter them.

    When the pads broke on my car, the next engine start bent intake valves on all four bank 2 cylinders. Hope that didn't happen to you, but the driver's side valve cover is easy enough to remove and inspect the pads. You can also check for damage on the inside of the valve cover where the chain would be making contact if it were loose in any way.

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    Bank 2 is on the front of the engine. After looking at some videos of when I did the cam chain tensioner gaskets, it looks like everything went back together fine with no abnormal slack or wear.

    I guess I'll pl ull the valve cover to inspect the guides on Saturday.

    I guess I should've verified both cams were in timing before I pulled the old belt off and put the new one on. The old belt had so much slack in it I wouldn't be surprised if they were off a little.

  6. #6
    Registered User hahnmgh63's Avatar
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    First of all, just pull that drivers side valve cover off and double check the chain link count and visually check the top pad tensioner pad for wear. Left side is 15 links, and the count starts at #1 not at 0 so it is really 14 spaces between. Insert the TDC tool in the crank if you have it, then line up the timing cam so it is perfectly on the mark shown and with the right links the other cam should be right on.
    2003 White RS6 BBS RS-GT, RNS-E, KW V3's & Hotchkis
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    Quote Originally Posted by hahnmgh63 View Post
    First of all, just pull that drivers side valve cover off and double check the chain link count and visually check the top pad tensioner pad for wear. Left side is 15 links, and the count starts at #1 not at 0 so it is really 14 spaces between. Insert the TDC tool in the crank if you have it, then line up the timing cam so it is perfectly on the mark shown and with the right links the other cam should be right on.
    Yea, that's what I'm going to have to do. Out of curiosity, does anybody know how far off timing will be per link? Itd be interesting, and good to know for future diagnostics if people have this issue. Everything on the front went on without a problem....

    Will report back when I pull the valve cover.
    Dont mind the crank markings being off, crank and cams were at TDC when installed
    20190215_162213 by Joel Francisco

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    Here's all you should need to diagnose:

    CAMSHAFT CHECKING ADJUSTMENT.pdf
    CAMSHAFT TIMING CONTROL FUNCTION.pdf
    CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSORS CHECKING.pdf
    CAMSHAFT ADJUSTMENT VALVES CHECKING.pdf
    CAMSHAFTS AND CAMSHAFT ADJUSTER RIGHT CYLINDER HEAD.pdf
    CAMSHAFTS AND CAMSHAFT ADJUSTER LEFT CYLINDER HEAD.pdf

    I included the left cylinder head just for good measure. At TDC, you should see 15 links on the driver's side and 16 links on the passenger side. There are pictures in the attachments to show you exactly how it is supposed to look.

  9. #9
    Registered User hahnmgh63's Avatar
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    I know you're getting good at it but you could have easily done this one with the engine in the car
    2003 White RS6 BBS RS-GT, RNS-E, KW V3's & Hotchkis
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    Quote Originally Posted by hahnmgh63 View Post
    I know you're getting good at it but you could have easily done this one with the engine in the car
    Haha, the engine isnt out yet, this was from when I O.G. did the timing belt just to kinda say hey, the crank lock pin was in and so was the cam lock bar, everything matched up.

    However... the engine MAY have to come out again as the clutch is slipping in 6th gear if you go full throttle. 1200 miles on it so far, but we'll see if she settles down. Probably coming out regardless for larger turbos and twin disk this coming Winter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jolio1994 View Post
    However... the engine MAY have to come out again as the clutch is slipping in 6th gear if you go full throttle. 1200 miles on it so far, but we'll see if she settles down.
    Something else is wrong if you're really slipping that clutch especially with your timing being fucked.
    03 RS6 Avus/Ebony #905593 resurrected 6MT, 04 Avalanche Z71, 87 T-Bird Turbo Coupe (351W T5), 04 Aprilia RSVR Factory

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    Well.. Drove it about 200 miles today to Cars and Coffee NJ... That was fun.

    Decided to wait to investigate since the car WILL be down for a while. That being said I took it apart when I got home. Exhaust cam lines up perfectly with the notch in the cam to the cam cap. Intake cam, not so much. Still 15 links in between them, but due to the tensioner not tensioning (lol) it looks like it's about 1/2 tooth off.

    Going to be purchasing new tensioners and chains for both side, as bank 2 has been metal on metal for some time now, and I can almost guarantee Bank 1 isn't far behind.

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  13. #13
    Registered User hahnmgh63's Avatar
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    You probably already are but since it's metal on metal put new chains in, they're fairly cheap.
    2003 White RS6 BBS RS-GT, RNS-E, KW V3's & Hotchkis
    2001 225bhp tt roadster 2x944 Turbo's 1974 911 w/'91 3.6ltr motor
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    Be right back. Going to buy a lottery ticket

    So where do you think the rest of it went? lol

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  15. #15
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    Oil pan for the big pieces, filter for the rest. Hope it was a top quality filter and that you've been over changing on your intervals in this case.
    2003 White RS6 BBS RS-GT, RNS-E, KW V3's & Hotchkis
    2001 225bhp tt roadster 2x944 Turbo's 1974 911 w/'91 3.6ltr motor
    Roy, WA

  16. #16
    Registered User hahnmgh63's Avatar
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    I've got a couple of tensioners with 75k on them, and some spare pads if you need them. Changed mine out just because I'm anal, new chains too.
    2003 White RS6 BBS RS-GT, RNS-E, KW V3's & Hotchkis
    2001 225bhp tt roadster 2x944 Turbo's 1974 911 w/'91 3.6ltr motor
    Roy, WA

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    Thanks, but I should be good. I ordered a new 5-8 tensioner, IWIS chain x2 pads for the 1-4, and 2 gaskets for both tensioners.

    I'll do the cam seals which I still have NIB. Cam caps and valve cover gaskets are still 1200 miles minty fresh so they will be reused.

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