Autocar: "Was the CSL worth it?"
http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums...4672958-1.html
Autocar: "Was the CSL worth it?"
http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums...4672958-1.html
RS6.com Owner and Admin. The PRISM of RS6.com - Click here to send me an e-mail
I agree with nene. The RS 6 any day.Originally posted by Nordschleife
Both the M3CSL and the RS6 are poor value cars. Why not try the Gallardo, a much better proposition.
R+C
The RS 6 a poor value vehicle? The Gallardo is double the price with a 15% hike in performance. And you cant take the wife and kids with you in the Lambo.
Ben
BenOriginally posted by Benman
I agree with nene. The RS 6 any day.
The RS 6 a poor value vehicle? The Gallardo is double the price with a 15% hike in performance. And you cant take the wife and kids with you in the Lambo.
Ben
If you have driven the Gallardo you will never want to drive the RS6 again except on airport and holiday runs. It is a real driver's car.
Look at the RS6 from a value point of view. It is not that well put together - does all your trim align on the inside, does your hood flex at speed, is the panel fit good.... I can go on. The brakes are a poor design, gearboxes and turbos are being destroyed, airconditioning systems develop annoying whines, wind noise is too high, and in the US you get inappropriate seats which often rattle and an annoying box in the trunk. Further the US spec cars did not get the additional intercoolers planned for the car because the dollar tanked.
So yes, the car is poor value, as are almost all cars. Scarcity value is not found from mass produced car manufacturers. I think you will find that the RS6 is no more depreciation proof than any other 'executive' European car. Cars which do have real scarcity value are sought after by a global market, when assessing the potential for normal depreciation to be ameliorated by sustained demand for the car even when used, look to the global production numbers.
I've never driven a starndard M3, only the CSL, as a driving tool its an order of magnitude more interesting than an RS6. Is it perfect? Far from it, the brakes suck and its not fast enough, but its fun.
Did you hear that Wholesale Antiqes Monthly voted the RS6 their WOTY award?
R+C
Nordschleife,
I find it difficult to see how you can compare a $180,000 sportscar to a $90,000 sports sedan. Its just not a fair fight. I'm curious how you would compare the Gallardo to the Porsche Turbo or perhaps more accurately to the GT2?
Most of us are not running the Beast on the track or doing any really serious hard driving where the flaws you point out become issues. I personally think the build quality is very good on the RS6 & I'm very happy with the car.
What is WOTY (something of the year)? Also, you've mentioned antiques on a couple of occasions - do you collect? If so what? Send me a PM.
Finnus
Last edited by Finnus; February 21st, 2004 at 15:36.
2001 S4 Silver Triptonik
2003 RS 6 Muguello Blue
Finnus
In Europe a well equipped RS6 Avant with a quattro special interior and all extras retails for about EUR 120,000. To this add EUR 8,000 for brakes (fitted with car papers updated), engine upgrade to 560bhp, EUR 18,000 and it becomes very easy to compare the two cars. The Gallardo starts at EUR 139,000.
Why this big difference between European and US prices, well graph the dollar against the Euro since the RS6 was announced over two years ago. The RS6 was promised to the US when USD 0.85 bought EUR 1.00; now you have to spend USD 1.25 to buy that same Euro - the dollar has declined over 45 per cent over that period. Lamborghini decided not to take a loss on the Gallardo in the US market, Audi absorbed the currency loss for the RS6.
When comparing cars I believe its better to compare total costs including depreciation. It was cheaper for me to drive a 996 Turbo with an 'exclusive' interior than it was to drive a quattro GmbH customised S4 for two years, the killer was depreciation.
I've driven the Porsche Turbo and it doesn't compare to the Gallardo, unless you need the extra space. The GT2 is closer in terms of performance, but I prefer the Gallardo package, engine, gearbox and ability to cover long distances in bad weather . The GT2 is not a great car on a snowy road!
I'm glad to hear you are happy with your RS6, I hope you remain so, as long as the warranty holds up!
There is a European joke about Antique Dealers driving Volvos because there is so much space in them. WOTY = (Wagon Of The Year).
R+C
Great information in this thread. I think we should clarify that while international exchange rates are still dynamic, don't assume that Audi (or any other big international company) "ate" the exchange loss. Companies that deal internationally learned long ago how to hedge their currency and buy forward. Granted, it's a guess on how much currency will be hedged, but it is a great insurance policy to protect the value of the currency the company will be receiving. The NYT had an article not long ago about Porsche, MB, BMW and Audi using this tool to protect themselves quite effectively during the great swing in depreciated dollars.
Fevr
VAG's preferred currency hedge is by cross purchasing, so you will discover that the latest models across the group have a lot more US sourced parts than previously.
By the time they were setting US prices for the Gallardo, it was too late to hedge the currency. The cost of hedging in uncertain times can get very expensive.
Remember a Lamborghini is a lot less price sensitive than an Audi.
R+C
Nordschleife,In Europe a well equipped RS6 Avant with a quattro special interior and all extras retails for about EUR 120,000 ... The Gallardo starts at EUR 139,000.
If the price were that close in the US, I'd think seriously about the Gallardo too. Lets hope that the Audi depreciation curse doesn't hit Lambo, especially if they're coming to a dealer near you (or me).
Finnus
2001 S4 Silver Triptonik
2003 RS 6 Muguello Blue
Nordschleife,
No i have not driven a Gallardo. But i fail to see how much more of a drivers car than a 911 TT it can be (which i have driven). They're both all wheel drive Beasts and both post similar #s (with the 911 TT costing much less (at least in the states).
As for fit and finish, the RS 6 has a very good quality (better than the 911 TT and better than Mercedes for sure). All Audis have good trim and panel fit and finish that i feel is superior to the competition (although that DANG box in the truck is stupid!).
As for the hood flexing at speeds, i have better things to watch when i'm driving 155mph+ (whoops did i admit that:blush: ).
You make many a good point, but again, here in the States (at our prices) the Gallardo does not make a better value vehicle.
Ben
I presume you meant to sayOriginally posted by Benman
No i have not driven a Gallardo. But i fail to see how much more of a drivers car than a 911 TT it can be (which i have driven). They're both all wheel drive Beasts and both post similar #s (with the 911 TT costing much less (at least in the states).
I cannot tell how much more of a driver's car the Galalrdo is than a 911 TT because I haven't driven one
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I have driven both the Gallardo and the 996 Turbo. The best way to describe the difference is to consider the 996 Turbo as perhaps the most efficient Gran Turismo in the world, with many of the characteristics of the sportcar. The Gallardo is an outstanding Sportscar, with many of the characteristics of a GT car.
When you drive the cars there is no question which is the faster in any given situation, the Gallardo. The Gallardo feels more like a track car. As far as value goes, if you can source a Gallardo at list you will make yourself a tidy profit selling it on at a premium, not something easy to do with the RS6.
Incidentally, the Porsche Exclusive interior is not only better done than a quattro GmbH supplied custom interior, but its significantly cheaper too. I'm afraid that Audi's superior panel fit and trim alignment is not as consistently good as it used to be.
R+C
So i take it goes without saying that you are smitten with the Gallardo! A better drivers car than the 911TT! Wow, now that's saying something!
Ben
Yes, the Gallardo is the best car Audi makes!Originally posted by Benman
So i take it goes without saying that you are smitten with the Gallardo! A better drivers car than the 911TT! Wow, now that's saying something!
Ben
R+C
Well then i'll have to take your word for it as the opportunity for a test drive will be quite some time away!Originally posted by Nordschleife
Yes, the Gallardo is the best car Audi makes!
R+C
Ben
911T vs. Gallardo in the latest EVO.
Note the acceleration for the Gallardo is in the wet.
Link here
RS6.com Owner and Admin. The PRISM of RS6.com - Click here to send me an e-mail
The Gallardo is for the males who shave their chests, legs, arms and other thingsIn todays terms that's Justin Timberlake in character.
The Murcielago in relation is for the hairer chested males, like the way James Bond is.
Still....Give me a Murcielago anyday of the week.
Especially when the owner will have to pay for parts and service after the warranty runs out!you have to find a real fanatic to pay top dollar for a four year old car, regardless of its condition.
Who would've thunk an analogy could have been drawn from "manscaping" and cars, way to go Klint.
...and Nordo,
Life is too short, sell that POS RS 6 already and get a good car...please!?!?
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