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Thread: Emissions Error and Secondary Air Pump Setup Troubleshooting.

  1. #19
    Registered User Aronis's Avatar
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    Andriy,

    I applied vacuum directly to the system and confirmed my setup provided good vacuum. The pump is fairly quiet when disconnected, but very loud when trying to pump to combi valve.

    I have not started the car since messing with it. When I finished buttoning things up and started the car the pump did not run as I suspect the car was still too hot. I was going to start it Saturday morning but got tied up painting a fence LOL. Now I am on a 40 day run of every other night call.

    Nubcake,

    I have not problem 'deleting' them, but more interested in knowing if I can just 'code them out' and just leave it not working and just get the thing to go to emission test Readiness state? Removing them and plating looks like the same amount of work/grief as replacing them. No?

    I have no problem with used ones! Who has some for sale?

    Mike
    '18 BMW M5, '19 Porsche Boxster GTS
    (prior '94 325is, '97 M3, '00 A6 4.2,'03 RS6,'08 A4 Cab,'13 A8L,'15 Q7,'16 BMW M2,

  2. #20
    Registered User AndyRS6's Avatar
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    Did you try to applied vacuum and spray carbon cleaner inside true inlet port. Sometimes it helps

  3. #21
    Registered User AndyRS6's Avatar
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    If you code them out, than you can block combi valve inlet side I think.
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    Andriy

  4. #22
    Registered User Aronis's Avatar
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    Excellent....but will it fail inspection?

    I have enough miles to allow for 2 failures. See photo. The EVAP was no problem, got that cleared and reset. I can trigger it's self test. I could not trigger the self test on the Secondary Air Pump.

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    But I think the Secondary Air Pump test triggers the next test for the Cats. So before I go through such a process I need to be certain I'll pass inspection. I guess the coding out of the secondary air pump might trigger Readiness for that system?

    Mike
    '18 BMW M5, '19 Porsche Boxster GTS
    (prior '94 325is, '97 M3, '00 A6 4.2,'03 RS6,'08 A4 Cab,'13 A8L,'15 Q7,'16 BMW M2,

  5. #23
    Registered User Aronis's Avatar
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    Do I have to take the intake pipe off the back of the combi-valve or just spray into the pipe at the secondary air pump connection?

    Mike
    '18 BMW M5, '19 Porsche Boxster GTS
    (prior '94 325is, '97 M3, '00 A6 4.2,'03 RS6,'08 A4 Cab,'13 A8L,'15 Q7,'16 BMW M2,

  6. #24
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    You can code out SAI in such a way that it will not throw a code and pass readiness (even with system completely gone).
    Described here for example: https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Secondary_Air_Injection (useless for a non-tuner, but it briefly explains the mechanism behind it).

    That's why I asked initially about fixing the system or just the DTC/readiness.
    Last edited by nubcake; June 14th, 2017 at 02:19.

  7. #25
    Registered User AndyRS6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aronis View Post
    Do I have to take the intake pipe off the back of the combi-valve or just spray into the pipe at the secondary air pump connection?

    Mike




    You need to spray directly in to combi valve true intake pipe and applied vacuum ( that brake fluid vacuum pump $20 and easy to use if you need to applied vacuum and relies multiple times)
    Also if you code them out you don't need to block combi valves (they're stuck in close position, just remove vacuum line from both sides and make a loop)



    Andriy

  8. #26
    Registered User Aronis's Avatar
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    The question remains if the readiness of the Secondary Air Pump will show as Ready if I code it out. Otherwise I will still have TWO not ready (Secondary Air pump and Catalytic Converter) and still not pass inspection.

    Mike
    '18 BMW M5, '19 Porsche Boxster GTS
    (prior '94 325is, '97 M3, '00 A6 4.2,'03 RS6,'08 A4 Cab,'13 A8L,'15 Q7,'16 BMW M2,

  9. #27
    Registered User Aronis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyRS6 View Post

    Before you remove combi I would recommend to use brake fluid vacuum pump few times to see from inlet side if valve opens ( applied vacuum more than one time)


    Andriy
    Andriy,

    I am not quite following you on this. Do I remove the connection at the back of the combi valve to spray? How much space would I then have to spray directly into the valve? The piping on the back of the valve is rigid from what I can see? Flex out?

    Thank you,

    Mike
    '18 BMW M5, '19 Porsche Boxster GTS
    (prior '94 325is, '97 M3, '00 A6 4.2,'03 RS6,'08 A4 Cab,'13 A8L,'15 Q7,'16 BMW M2,

  10. #28
    Registered User AndyRS6's Avatar
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    Andriy,

    I am not quite following you on this. Do I remove the connection at the back of the combi valve to spray? How much space would I then have to spray directly into the valve? The piping on the back of the valve is rigid from what I can see? Flex out?

    Thank you,

    Mike[/QUOTE]




    Yes, you need to remove connection at the back.
    You can push pipe away, or remove completely, only one bolt holding in the middle and two bolts at the combi valve (both sides), and one clamp by pass. combi, or from SAI pump.
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    Also very good tool for $20, if you want to check inside.
    I would recommend
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    Andriy
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  11. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aronis View Post
    The question remains if the readiness of the Secondary Air Pump will show as Ready if I code it out.
    I probably was not clear enough: depends on how it is "coded out".
    It can be made to show "ready", yes.

  12. #30
    Registered User Aronis's Avatar
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    Nubcake,

    Thank you very much, that is a great diagram. I am just kicking myself for not swapping those out when the engine was out. But had to stop at some point.

    Mike
    '18 BMW M5, '19 Porsche Boxster GTS
    (prior '94 325is, '97 M3, '00 A6 4.2,'03 RS6,'08 A4 Cab,'13 A8L,'15 Q7,'16 BMW M2,

  13. #31
    Registered User Aronis's Avatar
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    Update: Parts are in. One came from Germany, came pretty quickly!. I have to wait until Wednesday to run up to dealer to get parts and drop off at the mechanics place. Hopefully he will have time to finish it this week.

    Mike
    '18 BMW M5, '19 Porsche Boxster GTS
    (prior '94 325is, '97 M3, '00 A6 4.2,'03 RS6,'08 A4 Cab,'13 A8L,'15 Q7,'16 BMW M2,

  14. #32
    Registered User Aronis's Avatar
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    New parts. Go in tomorrow...hopefully back on the road by Friday.


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    '18 BMW M5, '19 Porsche Boxster GTS
    (prior '94 325is, '97 M3, '00 A6 4.2,'03 RS6,'08 A4 Cab,'13 A8L,'15 Q7,'16 BMW M2,

  15. #33
    Registered User Aronis's Avatar
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    New EGRs are in. It took less than 3 hours.

    But it still did not work. Now my new pump has sprung a leak! Probably from pushing against closed valves. Next is the Vacuum system. He suspects not enough vacuum to open the valves?

    Should have driven the car with the friggen oil leak and just added oil every week. !

    Mike
    '18 BMW M5, '19 Porsche Boxster GTS
    (prior '94 325is, '97 M3, '00 A6 4.2,'03 RS6,'08 A4 Cab,'13 A8L,'15 Q7,'16 BMW M2,

  16. #34
    Registered User Aronis's Avatar
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    So new EGRs are in. System would not pass with vagcom triggered test. But when run stone cold pump ran and secondary passed. And readiness was set.

    In our effort to figure out WTF is with the test which runs with car at 2500 rpm we found what appears to be insufficient vacuum to open EGR. Got -100% for reading on the secondary pump test and failure. Applied clamp to keep vacuum leak suspected at firewall from causing trouble then reran test. Still -100%. Then applied vacuum by hand pump directly to EGR. Ran test. Got -32%. Still failed but better.

    So is the vagcom triggered test really correct for this model year??

    Tomorrow with engine cold he's going to run engine and see if test runs at idle and if readiness is set I'm all set. Pass inspection. I replace pump and ERGs but not sure if either was needed. Both old EGRs appear to work.

    Oh well
    '18 BMW M5, '19 Porsche Boxster GTS
    (prior '94 325is, '97 M3, '00 A6 4.2,'03 RS6,'08 A4 Cab,'13 A8L,'15 Q7,'16 BMW M2,

  17. #35
    Registered User Aronis's Avatar
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    Update:

    Backup. Changed Solenoid, worked fine for a week without CEL. Then failed. Changed Pump, was very loud, still threw CEL. Car would not run diagnostic on secondary air pump system. Replaced EGR valves. Old ones were a bit stiff but actually open under vacuum. Still no go. Replaced new secondary air pump with new one (first one actually fell apart and leaked a lot LOL). No go.

    Now we put a pressure gauge on a T in line with the vacuum on the down side of the Solenoid. NO VACUUM! WTF!?!?

    Now the ECU is out and next step (tomorrow) is to check continuity from the Pin 44 back to the solenoid. I may be just a friggen loose wire. Spent $1200 on friggen parts for perhaps nothing. Friggen car......

    Mike
    '18 BMW M5, '19 Porsche Boxster GTS
    (prior '94 325is, '97 M3, '00 A6 4.2,'03 RS6,'08 A4 Cab,'13 A8L,'15 Q7,'16 BMW M2,

  18. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aronis View Post
    Spent $1200 on friggen parts for perhaps nothing. Friggen car......
    That's why it's a bad idea to throw parts at it.
    Proper diagnosis is the key.

    Is there vacuum upstream?
    Are you 100% your ECU software is stock?

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