Blinking MIL on....running rough.....where to start with repair?

[Bigglezworth]

Do not use any cam alignment diagrams other than those for an RS6 engine. I posted images of the proper alignment on another post in which one of the members lost their tensioner.

[Aronis]

This all just happened all of a sudden and you didn't do anything prior to this?

I can't recall how hard it is to put the crank at TDC and see where the two diamond shaped ears are clocked.

You might have a bad tensioner guide or your timing belt pulley might have slipped on one of the cams.

Yes, after my engine pull repair of everything experience, the car was fine, but I did a vag scan and saw this:



3 Faults Found:
17887 - Brake Boost Vacuum System
P1479 - 008 - Mechanical Failure
17863 - Exhaust Gas Temp Sensor 1 (G235)
P1455 - 008 - Implausible Signal
17865 - Exhaust Gas Temp Sensor 2 (G236)
P1457 - 001 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0001


I was not too concerned, so I cleared the codes figuring it was just loose wires or something. It was fine after. I did not rescan (should have) until I got the MIL on.

This is what I saw:

11 Faults Found:
17887 - Brake Boost Vacuum System
P1479 - 008 - Mechanical Failure
17863 - Exhaust Gas Temp Sensor 1 (G235)
P1455 - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
17865 - Exhaust Gas Temp Sensor 2 (G236)
P1457 - 001 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
16825 - EVAP Emission Control Sys
P0441 - 002 - Incorrect Flow - Intermittent
16840 - EVAP System
P0456 - 002 - Very Small Leak Detected - Intermittent
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 001 - - MIL ON
16688 - Cylinder 4
P0304 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
16686 - Cylinder 2
P0302 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
17748 - Camshaft Position Sensor (G40) / Engine Speed Sensor (G28)
P1340 - 001 - Incor. Correlation - Intermittent
16685 - Cylinder 1
P0301 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
16687 - Cylinder 3
P0303 - 001 - Misfire Detected - MIL ON
Readiness: 0000 0001

So SOMETHING changed.....

Mike

[SteveKen]

Check the engine harness grounds. There's single big one at the firewall where the harness and I think 2 other ones are attached.

I think there is another or two that ground at the head.

Still issues after that, I'd putt the valve covers and recheck the chain spacing and cam orientation.

[Aronis]

Check the engine harness grounds. There's single big one at the firewall where the harness and I think 2 other ones are attached.

I think there is another or two that ground at the head.

Still issues after that, I'd putt the valve covers and recheck the chain spacing and cam orientation.

I was speaking to my mechanic today and that is the first thing he said! ? ground issue. That would be fabulous. But I would like to understand how that would give the data I have seen with regard to two specific cylinders misfiring, the cam adjustment numbers so high, the failed pump, etc.....

Mike

[SteveKen]

I was speaking to my mechanic today and that is the first thing he said! ? ground issue. That would be fabulous. But I would like to understand how that would give the data I have seen with regard to two specific cylinders misfiring, the cam adjustment numbers so high, the failed pump, etc.....

Mike

I'm pretty sure the pump and the main engine harness grounds are both at the lug on the firewall.

[AndyRS6]

Yes, you can have misfire like that with bad cam alignment, that what I had when cam tensioner stop working.



Andriy

[Aronis]

Yes, you can have misfire like that with bad cam alignment, that what I had when cam tensioner stop working.



Andriy

Is the fact that cylinder 1 and 2 are the ones misfiring consistent with that?

Looks mal-aligned based on the cam adjust numbers. but I am just learning about those numbers.

But I know what to log after repairs from now on.....everything LOL..

Mike

[AndyRS6]

In my case was bank 2, cylinder 5 and 6 less in 7, sometimes in 8. My phase position bank 2 was -15.
I did a lot of research and phase position bank 1 and 2 should be in range +/-6 from 0 group 93, and adjustment bank 1 and 2 ( 0.0kw ) when off and ( 22.0kw ) when on.
I think in your case CCT's working, but phase position far from 0.
I think your problem with TB ( maybe Eccentric Idler shift or hydraulic tensioner).
When you did TB last time, you install whole kit?




Andriy

[Aronis]

In my case was bank 2, cylinder 5 and 6 less in 7, sometimes in 8. My phase position bank 2 was -15.
I did a lot of research and phase position bank 1 and 2 should be in range +/-6 from 0 group 93, and adjustment bank 1 and 2 ( 0.0kw ) when off and ( 22.0kw ) when on.
I think in your case CCT's working, but phase position far from 0.
I think your problem with TB ( maybe Eccentric Idler shift or hydraulic tensioner).
When you did TB last time, you install whole kit?

Andriy

My timing belt and all the parts were done at 127,000 miles, but when my engine was taken down to repair the oil leak, the timing was re done as part of re assembly. A new timing belt was used but the other parts were not changed. He inspected all those parts which only had 13k miles on them.

Unfortunately I think the above issues are a combination of a few things.

I just loosened the four ground wires on the drivers side firewall, sprayed the connectors with contact cleaner and re tightened it. I may redo that an actually clean each surface.

It will be going to the mechanic soon, just need to find the time and a ride home. LOL.

Mike

[SteveKen]

In my case was bank 2, cylinder 5 and 6 less in 7, sometimes in 8. My phase position bank 2 was -15.
I did a lot of research and phase position bank 1 and 2 should be in range +/-6 from 0 group 93, and adjustment bank 1 and 2 ( 0.0kw ) when off and ( 22.0kw ) when on.
I think in your case CCT's working, but phase position far from 0.
I think your problem with TB ( maybe Eccentric Idler shift or hydraulic tensioner).
When you did TB last time, you install whole kit?




Andriy

It's not difficult to get the timing off or not perfect when following the procedure. I think it has to do with the way the belt takes up slack before the sprockets are tightened.

It's a huge pain't but you have to do the procedure and then run the engine and check block 093 and then re-tweak the sprockets again based on the values. This is assuming that your cams are properly installed on the chains.

[AndyRS6]

It's not difficult to get the timing off or not perfect when following the procedure. I think it has to do with the way the belt takes up slack before the sprockets are tightened.

It's a huge pain't but you have to do the procedure and then run the engine and check block 093 and then re-tweak the sprockets again based on the values. This is assuming that your cams are properly installed on the chains.

My car is fixed, problem was CCT piston stock, misfire was strange, not same in all cylinders (most in 5, less in 6, some in 7, and few in 8) with different CCT no more misfire. Learn hard way with TB, re did few times.

That's what I got now





Andriy

[SteveKen]

My car is fixed, problem was CCT piston stock, misfire was strange, not same in all cylinders (most in 5, less in 6, some in 7, and few in 8) with different CCT no more misfire. Learn hard way with TB, re did few times.

That's what I got now





Andriy

great news.

when I replaced the entire tensioner it sounded horrible until I gave the throttle a good blip as there might have been some air in the oiling system or something was in need of getting unstuck.

[Aronis]

Andy RS6,

Which CCT did you use? EOM for $750 or the aftermarket for $210?


Thanks,

Mike

[AndyRS6]

OEM for $15. Pick from salvage yard from 2002 A6 4.2 with low mileage. I know part# same for C5 A6, A8, VW 4.2

Which one you use?



Andriy

[Aronis]

OEM for $15. Pick from salvage yard from 2002 A6 4.2 with low mileage. I know part# same for C5 A6, A8, VW 4.2

Which one you use?



Andriy

It was done at the shop when I had a new intercooler and timing belt service. It was never charged to my bill, but the mechanic who takes care of the car now was working at the dealer at that time. He is certain he changed them but never charged them out. When I had him do an oil service last year we found parts of the old one in the oil pain. He took the valve covers off and checked them, they were both like new.

If I replace them I will go aftermarket, they are $205 each and have 1 year warrantee. The EOM is 750 for one side and 650 for the other....too much....LOL
'
I plan on dropping the car off next Monday. If the whole thing looks pricey we are going to part the car out....LOL

Mike

[AndyRS6]

Mike, when you start your car in the morning do you hear rattle from engine for few seconds, before engine pull?




Andriy

[Aronis]

Mike, when you start your car in the morning do you hear rattle from engine for few seconds, before engine pull?




Andriy

No, it always sounded fine, I had an oil leak which was silent LOL.

The car now runs rough when I first start it but no mechanical rattle sounds.

I'll be bringing the car in Monday. So I'll have concrete info on the problem in about 6 months or so.

Mike

PS engine pull was over a 6 month period. LOL.....crying........

[Aronis]

I have been reading the Bently Manual...

I found this pearl.

"If readings do not match specifications, unscrew CMP sensor and check whether rotor ring has been correctly installed at camshaft (incorrect installation causes retainer tab to be squashed on tightening bolt). "

And the spec for the Cam Adjustment Range -6.0 to +6.0

I am going to pull the air box on Saturday morning and start looking for things I can fix....I'll check the ground to the coil pack wire, then swap the Coil and spark plugs and see if fault follows the parts. Etc....

I am reluctant to remove the Cam Position Sensors to check for the above issue because I don't think those were ever off....

basically I am hoping to find something that just got loose.....

This car is killing me....slowly.....