Crank center bolt

[AndyRS6]

Back to the beast, something doesn't make sense with chain timing. If I put 15 links between the marks, all marks align, but that's what I had with the error code and rough idling. Yesterday I switched to 16 and now my intake cam doesn't align, only exhaust. Back to square 1... is there anything else that can give me false code.
In this pic I got 15 links and mark aligh,,that's what I had with the issue.
In this one 16 links, intake canarks doesn't aligh. Not sure if I should start the car. As states earler, I got 16 links now.

Any thoughts, opinions on what can cause this error code? I'm open for any suggestions.


Can someone please check if possible if the Piston stationary or moves up and down when you turn crank by hand. Would really appreciate the info.

[bethridg]

The full procedure requires popping the timing belt cam gear loose (press fit) with a gear puller to allow the exhaust cam to spin freely. Align everything, 16 rollers between then torque everything back down.

* crank at TDC with pin and cam bar installed before tightening everything down.

Also, the cam chain tensioner is hydraulic..it requires oil pressure to auto adjust.


Picture from when I did mine a while back.

[G2]

I count 15 pins on B2 and 16 on B1 on the engine I'm working on. Align the cam marks, then count and position the link pins.

The tensioner ram will move as it's under spring tension. The tensioner may not be working while running, check the ohm value and power/ground as needed. A PowerProbe is great for quick and safe testing.

Worn guide rails and chains can and will effect cam timing. DTC's will set if the KW value is too far out of range. Cam timing should be advanced at idle and in power mode will sweep towards retardation.

The cam bearing bolts are one time use, as are cam sprocket bolts. Reusing the tensioner gasket is folly, far as preventing leaks.

Be sure cam/crank timing is sync'd with proper timing belt setup. Err on the side of slightly advanced if offsetting for worn valvetrain. Rotate engine and visually compare crank to cam positions. The engine will make more and better power when retarded. Not much room to play with on modern OBD engines, however. I do this on most engines, among other minute tricks based on engine design. Gained the most out of Porsche and Honda so far.

Once confident of baseline timing, look at other reasons for poor running. Hope that also helps.

[AndyRS6]

I count 15 pins on B2 and 16 on B1 on the engine I'm working on. Align the cam marks, then count and position the link pins.

The tensioner ram will move as it's under spring tension. The tensioner may not be working while running, check the ohm value and power/ground as needed. A PowerProbe is great for quick and safe testing.

Worn guide rails and chains can and will effect cam timing. DTC's will set if the KW value is too far out of range. Cam timing should be advanced at idle and in power mode will sweep towards retardation.

The cam bearing bolts are one time use, as are cam sprocket bolts. Reusing the tensioner gasket is folly, far as preventing leaks.

Be sure cam/crank timing is sync'd with proper timing belt setup. Err on the side of slightly advanced if offsetting for worn valvetrain. Rotate engine and visually compare crank to cam positions. The engine will make more and better power when retarded. Not much room to play with on modern OBD engines, however. I do this on most engines, among other minute tricks based on engine design. Gained the most out of Porsche and Honda so far.

Once confident of baseline timing, look at other reasons for poor running. Hope that also helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f9NsO_GsVQ

i found this video, in which tensioner goes up and down when you turn the crank, in my car however, it does not move up. should it?
in dtc position, the piston should be up, is it true?

[AndyRS6]

There are no way to have 16 links and marks to be aligned, as shown on the second picture. when you release the gear from the exhaust cam, it does not provide space to have 16 links and proper alignment, i just tried...

[Bigglezworth]

There are no way to have 16 links and marks to be aligned, as shown on the second picture. when you release the gear from the exhaust cam, it does not provide space to have 16 links and proper alignment, i just tried...

Can't help you if you're not going to perform the work in accordance with the service manual. The drivers side is 15 - NOT 16 rollers. The members saying 16 rollers need to remember that this engine has different count for drivers and passenger side. The height of the tensioner shoe has nothing to do with setting the timing of the cams. Remember a proper removal of the cams has the tensioner compressed. I'm concerned on why you are running around in a circle on this. It is exactly as the service doc shows. If you are still struggling with this item after reading through the sevice document I posted, I might suggest finding someone who is more experienced to complete the repair.

[AndyRS6]

Can't help you if you're not going to perform the work in accordance with the service manual. The drivers side is 15 - NOT 16 rollers. The members saying 16 rollers need to remember that this engine has different count for drivers and passenger side. The height of the tensioner shoe has nothing to do with setting the timing of the cams. Remember a proper removal of the cams has the tensioner compressed. I'm concerned on why you are running around in a circle on this. It is exactly as the service doc shows. If you are still struggling with this item after reading through the sevice document I posted, I might suggest finding someone who is more experienced to complete the repair.

I did everything by the manual, all my marks aligned with 15 links. However, when I did that and ran vac com ross tech, it said that my alignment is off by 15 degree,P0022 - 001 - Advance Setpoint not Reached (Over-Retarded) that's what triggered this conundrum. So I'm trying to find that 15 degree variance in bank 2. I'm not going against the manual. I'm just following suggestions after I posted my log with the error trying to find the problem. This is not my first engine which I'm taking apart and putting together, so I'm quite familiar with what I'm doing.

[Bigglezworth]

If all your timing marks are lining up, the only thing that could possibly cause your code then is a bad tensioner. The timing marks are all static points of reference and the tensioner is the only item in the whole set-up that permits/provides variance.

I can tell you without any uncertainty that the tensioners on each of my cars that I have performed a swap for shoes and seals required compression to introduce sufficient slack in the drive chain to remove the cams. I never had a situation whereupon either the top or bottom piston didn't push back out to take up slack - even without there being oil pressure.

When you swapped pads, the pistons all stayed inside the tensioner housing correct??

[AndyRS6]

If all your timing marks are lining up, the only thing that could possibly cause your code then is a bad tensioner. The timing marks are all static points of reference and the tensioner is the only item in the whole set-up that permits/provides variance.

I can tell you without any uncertainty that the tensioners on each of my cars that I have performed a swap for shoes and seals required compression to introduce sufficient slack in the drive chain to remove the cams. I never had a situation whereupon either the top or bottom piston didn't push back out to take up slack - even without there being oil pressure.

When you swapped pads, the pistons all stayed inside the tensioner housing correct??

i'm putting everything back together per manual with 15 links again. So, if my piston does not move up and down when i crank by hand that means that i have bad tensioner? it is visible that it wants to, but it doesnt. cuz i think my locked in in closed position and top one doesnt move at all. so if i have bad tensioner, can it cause the timing to be 15 degrees off?

yes, when i remove tensioner, bottom part from the left side that adjust by the spring was out, there was nothing to hold that bottom piston in place.

Thank you for your input. i appreciate it.

[hahnmgh63]

Andy, as Bigglezworth mentioned, are you using the tensioner compression tool to compress the tensioner before removal? When decompressed the tensioner takes the slack out of the chain. Normally off I think the number was -3 to 6' KW then on was 16' to 25' KW. At Idle, warm or cold it should always be at the un-shifted (timing retarded). Above idle it will shift but the proper checking of it has the engine at warm for oil and emissions to check it for the shift.
Engine off: If there is no oil pressure, a spring-loaded locking pin is pushed into the detent slot of the adjusting piston. The adjusting piston is then locked.
Engine running: Once a defined oil pressure has been reached, it acts on the surface of the locking pin, i.e. against the resistance of the spring. The locking pin releases the adjusting piston so that the engine control unit can adjust the timing in the “Advance“ direction.

[lswing]

If you get desperate I have both functioning tensions from my car with 98k and new pads on them. I just put brand new ones in after the pads broke, since we were in there. Was trying to sell for $450, but maybe could help you out.

[bethridg]

yes, when i remove tensioner, bottom part from the left side that adjust by the spring was out, there was nothing to hold that bottom piston in place.

There is a special tool 3366 used to compress the tensioner to keep that from happening

[mrdave]

There is a special tool 3366 used to compress the tensioner to keep that from happening

Get several, they break fairly easily.

Here's a cheap source: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audi-VW-Timi...-/231659961001

[AndyRS6]

Get several, they break fairly easily.

Here's a cheap source: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audi-VW-Timi...-/231659961001

I got two of them. I'm right now putting everything back together, hope I can start in 2hr.
Thanks everyone for trying to help me

[AndyRS6]

update: i put everything together by the manual-15 links (FYI in US models, left driver side bank 2 will not fit 16 links, however if you put 16 or 14 you still will be able to crank and not band the valves, i tested)
i also redid timing belt to be sure that all marks align and everything in timing. when i started the car from cold in service position, no coolant everything sounded fine. i cleared the codes and checked the timing, everything was fine. after i put everything together, now i have a code (see picture) vac-com group 93 phase position bank 2 has no info at all. any thoughts? (electrical problem?)




this is my cold start after timing belt re-done.

[hahnmgh63]

Who knows, somebody else needs to log Gp93. Since you get it in Gp92 I would think all is fine as those KW numbers look Ok. Can somebody else with a running car on here log all 3 Gp's?

[lswing]

Who knows, somebody else needs to log Gp93. Since you get it in Gp92 I would think all is fine as those KW numbers look Ok. Can somebody else with a running car on here log all 3 Gp's?

I'll try and check later tonight. Almost sure 93 logs both...wire loose now after all the messing around down there?

[lswing]

Here is at idle...


Here is revved up a bit, you can see the values increase in 91 and 92 for each bank...


Not really sure about 93, it's there, but the values are static.