Pre-cat removal

[fukinavit]

Sorry, just saw this...I seem to recall removing the front wheels and inner fender wells gets you in there too, at least for a bolt or two. Have fun gutting. Half way through the job, you will be second guessing the return on your "investment". It will be worth it, but you will be thinking...

looked at this some more tonight, I don't think removing the fender wells does anything for access to the dps. in fact I can lower the rear of the engine probably 2.5in max before theres tension on the heater hoses going into the bulk head. The front of the engine doesn't move due to it resting on the mounts so loosening the front subframe bolts achieves nothing either, you have to remove the engine mounting brackets to actually lower the front.
ultimately lots of small details left out in peoples experience of removing these with the engine in place. realistically I can maybe get to 3 of the bolts on each downpipe and hope the come nice, but the top one just no way with that amount of drop. ive heard you can achieve 6 inches but I don't see how. I know my engine has never been out before, so all clips and hoses are original, so maybe this makes things tighter?, also guys with a 6 speed conv would have a way easier time due to the increased access form the trans side.
I have on order the bufkin pipe and also noticed the valve covers are leaking so this has made my decision to pull the engine much easier. may aswell as fighting this way just seems pointless.
im not saying it cant be done as obviously guys have done it, just on this occasion its not the best route for me.

thanks Bigglezworth for the links, very useful.

[ttboost]

Yeah, I've had my engine out 2 or 3 times now, and it's been a few years since I've had mine, so memory escapes me. Not sure if you saw this, but you can 100% remove the cross member under the transmission, with the engine in the car, which allows you considerably more access on each side. Just support the rear of the engine (under the transmission) with a floor jack, or post jack, and remove the "U" shaped cross member (1 big bolt on each side in the front and the 3 bolts/bracket in the back). You will have to leave the jack there, but it will be easier to reach up in there.

[Bigglezworth]

As I posted, you need to be able to drop the cradle enough to get your hands up in there. Once you drop it 4-6", you will be in the zone. You will also then be able to see the nuts that Mike references being visible from the sides behind the wheel well cover, AND you can also gain access to the top pair from above between the head and firewall. There is no question that you need to have the chassis in service position, remove the front stubber, remove the rad hose and heater hoses, and also remove the Y-pipe and upper and lower intercooler hoses. If you don't do this, you're going to reach maximum stretch on parts that aren't designed to support an engine. The entire cross member can be removed to get more access as Mike indicates, which necessitates bracing rear of transmission, and hanging engine from crane at front (just like shown on the engine removval and installation docs I posted a link to). I do believe that you don't need to go this extra step, but it's subject to how much you're struggling with tools, access, and coorperative fasteners....

If you're going to change the oil cooler coupler with a nice aluminum milled piece, along with valve covers, etc., then just bite the bullet and remove the front clip, disconnect all coolers, drive shafts, etc., and drop the hulk. Great time to clean things up also. You're welcome to PM me to discuss further as I've done this a trio of times also.

[Bigglezworth]

Further to confirm that you can in fact do this work with all electronics still hooked up to the engine, AND all cooler hoses full of fluids except for the upper rad hose, heater core hoses, and aux rad hose that takes off from lower rad hose pipe. Of course front clip is in service position, lower intercooler hoses removed, Y-pipe removed, and engine snubber removed. Also, headlight sensor removed, the coolant recirc pump unmounted from the drivers side frame, and the starter/alternator harness zip ties snipped to ensure sufficient slack. I've attached photos showing a dropped engine with the suspension still mounted and the cradle still in place. Driveshaft still mounted also, with only the exhaust decoupled, heat shield removed, and shifter cable unbolted (but still hooked up to PRNDL unit). I have an engine hoist so I use that to make mince meat of the weight while lowering/raising the hulk. Can be done with a pair of floor jacks and blocking given enough patience.

[lswing]

Bigglez, is this your 20th or 50th time "pulling" the engine? You've got it down that's for sure, nice work!

[Bigglezworth]

Bigglez, is this your 20th or 50th time "pulling" the engine?

I've only officially pulled the entire hulk twice. Once one my gray car to perform a tranny swap, and once on my blue car to swap turbos. All other work has been performed by dropping the cradle as needed as shown above which was only done to address EGT's, O2's, and a leaking banjo fitting at one of the turbo's coolant lines. Not good financial planning to own more than one of these cars if you can't wrench yourself....

[fukinavit]

so after being on shift for the past 2 weeks I am back at it again.
Engine is out, downpipes are gutted. next on the list is the oil cooler pipe, sai delete, valve cover and tensioner reseal and finally timing belt.

awaiting their fate
.
before

these tools made this an easy affair

restriction be gone

after

[Bigglezworth]

Yep. Have a few of those exact photos here. I kept the internals and am still looking to drop them off at the metal recycling place here. Worth some $$.

[Dmb408]

Question for this thread. Pre cat removal requires no coding or early failure of parts right? The primary 02's will still hold up the same amount of time, will the main cat fail quicker and start dropping cat efficiency codes?

[RSoverAll]

Question for this thread. Pre cat removal requires no coding or early failure of parts right? The primary 02's will still hold up the same amount of time, will the main cat fail quicker and start dropping cat efficiency codes?

The small cats are only in place to get the main catalysts to operating temp quicker. I don't believe removing it could cause the main cats to degrade any quicker or present a P0420 catalyst code.

I am pretty sure if the main cats do not get to temp quick enough to start turning the CO into CO2 in a certain amount of time the ECU sees this through the post O2 and could possibly set a code.

Don't quote me on that though...

As I wanna do this pre cat removal myself I am searching for answers as well.

[Bigglezworth]

I've driven with gutted precats on a pair of RS's here for the past couple of years. All temperatures of weather. All sensors OEM spec and in OEM locations. Have never thrown any code(s).

[RKturbo]

Finally got mine done today. A tip I found very helpful was to use a extra long masonry bit and drilled like 10 holes through it before I started chipping away at it with big screwdriver and hammer. Tried an air chisel and various long bits on the first one which really seemed to just make it harder and easily took a couple of hrs and then some to get done. The 2nd one I used the pre-drilling holes technique and it was done in 45 min tops. Now time to start putting everything back together tomorrow.