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Thread: Production Audi Quattro concept spotted in testing

  1. #37
    Registered User Joker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benman View Post
    You ARE biased, but it is a totally understandable one as the R8 is the measuring stick for all future cool Audis. Me, I'd have a hard time deciding between either one. They both ooze a cool factor I do not find in too many other cars out at the moment. If the Sport Quattro had rear seats, it would get the clear nod on my part. But since they are both strickly two seaters it is a tough choice!
    Two different kind of cool. The R8 is the kind of showy cool that says you've made it to the big league, where as the other is cool in the kind of way that harks back to Audi racing and rally heritage with it's short wheelbase coupe design and unmistakeable off beat engine note.

    I know which one would appeal to me.

  2. #38
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    Anyone can buy the R8, the Sport Quattro isn´t for everyone. Only for the true connoisseurs!
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  3. #39
    Registered User tailpipe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benman View Post
    If the Sport Quattro had rear seats, it would get the clear nod on my part. But since they are both strickly two seaters it is a tough choice!
    You had better start saving, then, Ben. No definite decision has been taken about interior layout yet, as far as I know. I believe there is an excellent chance that the Sport Quattro WILL get two small but usable rear seats to make it a 2+2. Limiting the production SQ to only two seats might reduce its appeal, since many potential buyers at this price point are likely to be married and have kids. Audi already has the very focused R8 with just two seats. Since achieving adequate sales volumes is a key part of the business case, I think excluding rear seats would be risky. Those of us who knew the original Quattro well, which had 4 seats, would not expect Audi to deviate from the original formula. Moreover, the SQ also makes up for a lacklustre RS5. Since it is also destined to use this car's interior as well as sharing its running gear, I think it'll stick to the same layout. If you look at the photos on Fourtitude.com, showing the rear hatch open, you'll see there is definitely room for rear seats.

    If Audi offered a standard SQ version as a 2+2, there is no reason why it couldn't also offer a stripped-out hardcore version as a track /rally car with a roll-cage, carbon fibre bucket seats, less weight and nearer 500 bhp. If you saw the SQ on Audi's Paris stand there was a model of just such a car.

    Although rear legroom on any 2+2 would be tight (just like the TT), it should not be too uncomfortable, after all, the car is about the same size as a 3-door Golf or Scirocco, which both have more than adequate rear accommodation. It would definitely be four not five seats, due to the AWD transmission tunnel.

    What is interesting about the SQ is that it may be a reinvention of two Audi icons, not one. It is certainly a modern interpretation of the original Quattro, but it may also represent the next incarnation of the TT, which has always been hamstrung by using the Golf platform. Using the RS5's chassis instead of the Golf's would make a future TT replacement much more credible versus the Cayman. Moving the TT upmarket also makes room for a junior Audi R4 below it.

    Pure speculation on my part. But I will say this for sure: whatever the SQ comes with 2 or 4 seats, I'm getting one. my 3 kids can walk.

  4. #40
    Moderator Benman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tailpipe View Post
    You had better start saving, then, Ben...
    Damn, really? Well that would give it the nudge over the R8 for me!



    "Anyone can buy the R8, the Sport Quattro isn´t for everyone. Only for the true connoisseurs!" To me, this generalization is not accurate. How can someone who prefers an R8 not be discerning? Just cause it does not have a retro look? Nah, come on, they are both awesome vehicles from Audi and for me at least, an incredibly difficult choice!

    Ben
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  5. #41
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    I heard disappointing news that launch cannot be expected until 2013 @ Euro 200.000.. At such an exotic price that car should have been ready for launch next year, in my view.

  6. #42
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    200K EU? that is Ferrari Italia Scuderia territory. the car would have to be made from CF and magnesium then. for that price performance would not be enough. it would have to look the part too- and though the car is modern and cool looking it is no exotic. sorry.
    Past- A4, TT, S4

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  7. #43
    Moderator Benman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RXBG View Post
    200K EU? that is Ferrari Italia Scuderia territory. the car would have to be made from CF and magnesium then. for that price performance would not be enough. it would have to look the part too- and though the car is modern and cool looking it is no exotic. sorry.
    I agree. Is it badass? HELL YEAH! Is it @ $250KUSD badass? Uhhmmm, not so sure...
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  8. #44
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    I wouldn´t be surpriced if the price is somewhere around the Porsche GT3 RS. Similar performance and a small series car. The next gen. GT3 RS will probably hit the 200 000 Euro mark.
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    In my view the performance has to be upped in order to "justify" Euro 200.

  10. #46
    Registered User Joker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by auditt View Post
    I wouldn´t be surpriced if the price is somewhere around the Porsche GT3 RS. Similar performance and a small series car. The next gen. GT3 RS will probably hit the 200 000 Euro mark.
    That would be a hell of an increase for the next GT3 RS to reach 200K, that's a 50K increase. Not saying it never happens but normally with each replacement model the increase is 1-2% but you get extra kit alone with the increase. Now that part is out of the way, do you really think it's possible for Audi to ask this much or expect it to be as focused as a GT3 RS when the R8v10 isn't that extreme.

    I think you might be barking up the wrong tree.

  11. #47
    Registered User tailpipe's Avatar
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    There is no way, limited edition or not, that the Quattro Sport Concept will sell for €200,000.

    I can see it being sold for €100,000 (which would be disappointing) but not for €200,000. It has neither the badge nor the hardware to support such a price-point. In fact, I think Audi could sell it for €50,000 or €60,000 and still make a profit. Here's the math: I think Audi could easily shift 5,000 SQs annually. Assume a production run lasting 6 years and that makes a total production run of 30,000. The car requires an investment of €450 million to bring it into production. Therefore, each car will cost around €17,000 to make.

    Add selling, marketing and distribution costs of €3,000 per car and still you don't need to sell it for much more than €50,000 to make a handsome profit. If Audi sold 30,000 for €50,000 it would achieve €1.5 billion in revenues. That is a very attractive business as far as i am concerned.

    We know there is a lot of interest among enthusiasts for the Sports Quattro. Potential buyers are the same people who bought the TT and we know what a success that has been - this too was anticipated to be niche car when it first appeared, which is why it was based on the Golf / A3 platform.

    Audi knows that the more you charge, the fewer you sell. At €200,000 it may only sell 500 cars (€100 million in sales). At €50,000 it could sell 30,000 (€1.5 billion in sales. My figures may be completely wrong, but my arguments stack-up. So relax, guys. This car will sell for less than €100,000.

  12. #48
    Registered User darkop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tailpipe View Post
    There is no way, limited edition or not, that the Quattro Sport Concept will sell for €200,000.

    I can see it being sold for €100,000 (which would be disappointing) but not for €200,000. It has neither the badge nor the hardware to support such a price-point. In fact, I think Audi could sell it for €50,000 or €60,000 and still make a profit. Here's the math: I think Audi could easily shift 5,000 SQs annually. Assume a production run lasting 6 years and that makes a total production run of 30,000. The car requires an investment of €450 million to bring it into production. Therefore, each car will cost around €17,000 to make.

    Add selling, marketing and distribution costs of €3,000 per car and still you don't need to sell it for much more than €50,000 to make a handsome profit. If Audi sold 30,000 for €50,000 it would achieve €1.5 billion in revenues. That is a very attractive business as far as i am concerned.

    We know there is a lot of interest among enthusiasts for the Sports Quattro. Potential buyers are the same people who bought the TT and we know what a success that has been - this too was anticipated to be niche car when it first appeared, which is why it was based on the Golf / A3 platform.

    Audi knows that the more you charge, the fewer you sell. At €200,000 it may only sell 500 cars (€100 million in sales). At €50,000 it could sell 30,000 (€1.5 billion in sales. My figures may be completely wrong, but my arguments stack-up. So relax, guys. This car will sell for less than €100,000.
    Am 100% sure you're gonna be right!

  13. #49
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    Still don´t agree. Sorry . It will never be cheaper then the RS5 or even the same price. Thats not just realistic to even consider. It will be far more expensive. It will have exotic materials and it will be produced in a much different way from big series cars. (Probably not being built by Audi or Quattro GMBH. I'm guessing Italdesign.)
    I also think that even if its possible for Audi to produce and sell these cars in large numbers they will not. This car will be exclusive, it will be exepensive and it will not be a Scirocco R. Audis goal is a 911 killer that will help the brand to be more exclusive.
    I also think that this car will only be sold duringa a year or less. Just like the RS models.
    Last edited by auditt; December 17th, 2010 at 10:49.
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  14. #50
    Registered User Joker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by auditt View Post
    Still don´t agree. Sorry . It will never be cheaper then the RS5 or even the same price. Thats not just realistic to even consider. It will be far more expensive. It will have exotic materials and it will be produced in a much different way from big series cars. (Probably not being built by Audi or Quattro GMBH. I'm guessing Italdesign.)
    I also think that even if its possible for Audi to produce and sell these cars in large numbers they will not. This car will be exclusive, it will be exepensive and it will not be a Scirocco R. Audis goal is a 911 killer that will help the brand to be more exclusive.
    I also think that this car will only be sold duringa a year or less. Just like the RS models.
    I don't for one minute think that was the point Tailpipe was making, only that the numbers could be shown that such a case could be made profittable. This car needs to sit between the RS5 and the R8, it's more exclusive and special than the RS5 but not exotic enough to warrant being priced above the R8 in any form.

    In case none of you have noticed the Audi supercar isn't called RS but R, which in my mind means it's a level above, with the RS occuping the position of modified mainstream models just like what BMW and Mercedes do with their M and AMG. Different cars at a different price bracket and the QS has too much of the RS dna to be able to ask silly money.

  15. #51
    Registered User tailpipe's Avatar
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    Thanks, Joker. yes. You're right.

    But, to clarify, I wasn't saying that the Sports Quattro is going to cost less than an RS5. Rather, that if Audi wanted to, they could make it and sell it for less than the RS5 and still make a profit.

    My UK dealer, from whom I have ordered an RS3 and 'registered my interest' in the Sports Quattro, tells me that Audi UK expects the SQ to come in under €100,000. As you say, Joker, it should be priced at more than an RS5 but less than an R8. If the Sports Quattro costs €450 million to bring into production and Audi sells it for €100,000, they only need to sell 4,500 to break even. I think they could sell 10,000 easily and possibly many more.

    So my point is simply that i don't expect the Sports Quattro to cost €200,000. I do expect it to be very special and to be made with exotic materials. I am pretty sure you're right, auditt, when you say Italdesign will produce it.

    This debate here on RS6.com is very interesting. I suspect that Audi itself is having just the same discussion behind closed doors: should this car be a mainstream model or limited edition special? What should it cost? Who should make it? How exotic should it be? And, perhaps most important of all, where should it fit within the overall VW brand portfolio rather than just within Audi's own line-up?

    Given the visual similarity between the Sports Quattro and the R4/ e-tron concepts (based on the VW Bluesport rear mid-engine sports car concept) that were shown earlier, it is hard not see a certain overlap between the two models. You could put the the 5-cylinder 2.5 engine in the back of the R4 and have a car that was as quick as a Sports Quattro costing half as much. So, will the Sports Quattro be hurt by the R4 and where does this leave the next generation TT and the R8? The need to have a blanced range of cars with each offering certain advantages is that mid-range models can look expensive or under-equipped if you get the formula wrong. Get it right and you can marginalise models above and below it in price. When you try to be all things to all men, you can end up being bland or undifferentiated. The car business is very competitive, very unforgiving and very hard to stay on top.

    Given the risks of product overlap. I mean who would buy an RS5 if they could buy a Sports Quattro for €10,000-€20,000 more? So, auditt, you could be right. There is a chance that Audi will only make 500 or 1,000. At this stage, there are only three certainties:

    1. Styling of R4/ e-tron / Sports Quattro will make into production in one form or another
    2. We can expect to see more of the 2.5-litre 5-cylinder engine and the longitudinal transmission of the S4/ S5/ RS5
    3. There is massive demand for a a proper Quattro replacement

    It would be nice to see all this in a car costing €50,000. The TT-RS would be that car if it didn't use the Golfs platform and Haldex AWD. The RS5 would be that car if it used the 5-cylinder engine in a much lighter body. Neither the TT nor the A5 can cut it, because the Sports Quattro has immediately made their styling look boring and dated. So, what I'm saying here is that a mainstream Quattro replacement represents a significant new mainstream model for Audi with potentially awesome profits. Why blow it by only making 500 units?

    I've always regarded the Audi Quattro as the thinking man's 911 (apologies to Fab).

    I can't wait for it to return. I'll pay 911 money for it, but not Ferrari figures.

    Basta.

  16. #52
    Registered User Fab's Avatar
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    Sorry Tailpipe but I do not understand what you mean on your sentence dedicated to me. My english is not perfect... Thanks for clarifying...

    Fab

  17. #53
    Registered User tailpipe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fab View Post
    Sorry Tailpipe but I do not understand what you mean on your sentence dedicated to me. My english is not perfect... Thanks for clarifying...

    Fab
    Dear Fab,

    My comment 'thinking man's 911' is a joke at your expense, implying that any sane or intelligent person would never buy a 911!!!! (Engine in wrong place, design unchanged for 40 years, engine sounds agricultural, etc, etc.) The truth that 1980s versions of the Porsche could be very dangerous in the wrong hands. More than a few less skilled drivers had accidents when their enthusiasm exceeded their ability. In fact, many ex-Porsche 911 owners bought Audi Quattros instead.

    I respect your choice of a Porsche 911, but it is not a car I would ever like to own. Ultimately, buying any car is about emotion and emotionally the 911 doesn't excite me.

    By the way, I think your English is excellent as are your contributions. But if we can't tease one another about our choice of car, especially when it is not an Audi, well then it would be a boring forum. Cheers!

  18. #54
    Registered User Fab's Avatar
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    Thanks for your kind clarification. I understood it was a joke dedicated to me but could really get it (eventhough I guessed the basic message).

    I am more than happy to have any kind of couversation here as many of us which makes it so interesting. It would be a pitty to start being pissed off as soon as we start "criticising intelligently". I know you do not like the 911 like many others. As I said in the past on another subject : you love it or hate it this has been true for 40 years.

    Coming back to the dangerousity of the 911 due to its "back pack" this is true but has been very much diminished with the car's evolution. This is fear for some and excitment and challenge for others, depends how you look at it. And once you understand well how all this package function then this is magic (I am not there yet). This simply means that the 911 is a DRIVER car and not a fast, well planted with natural understeer patern which gives to 95% of the drivers and feel for security.

    I do not want to make a too long reply as this is not the topic... but happy to continue on a more adequate one.

    Cheers

    Fab

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