Th A/F ratio drops into a more reasonaable range. If you look at the A/F ration and hp and tq line - there is a negative correlation. The beast needs to be fed!
And now I do - when should I expect the chicken dinner?
Th A/F ratio drops into a more reasonaable range. If you look at the A/F ration and hp and tq line - there is a negative correlation. The beast needs to be fed!
And now I do - when should I expect the chicken dinner?
Avus Silver RS6 - Viper Stage 2 ECU/TCU - Water/Meth Injection - Frozen Rotors - Hbars - clear corners - Hella smoked tails - gutted precats
That is the moral of this story.
The beast needs to be fed. If you dont properly fuel the boost cycle you will not send the snails into a tizzy making boost. Sure, the boost will come but your power and torque will be reduced, you will run the chance of melting pistons, you will run so lean that literally over time the valves, rings and pistons will become brittle and finally metal fatigue will set in. boom.
Look at the RS6 members GIAC graph and where the torque finally peaks at 3900rpm. That is where the A/F finally comes close to providing enough fuel to begin the power delivery. Dont get me wrong, its still way too lean but its not by accident that the peak torque number happens right at the point where A/F finally delivers some fuel. Its also not by accident that the peak turbo boost hits at 3900. You finally started to give the engine some fuel. Ditto for the point at 6100, the A/F finally gets closer to where fuel should be and we see a nice spike in hp.
Any number of items could be causing the lean overall condition. But, if you go back to GIACs "advertised" dyno graph...it too has many of these same traits. Its actually worse where peak torque comes at 4300 which is a key sign of problems. So how do you explain it? Other GIAC cars are having a similar problem. How do you explain it?
.02c IMHO the GIAC table and fuel mapping is way off. Its literally dangerous to the point that engine damage can occur. Having tuned cars myself my gut is telling me that GIAC simply went in and cranked up the boost table (simplest task) and said presto. Here you go suckers. "you know the kind that are born every minute". Too bad really, its a shame that a company would put out a product like that and its also a shame that dealers such as 034 Motorsport that performed the dyno on this particular RS6 did not tell the owner of the issues. This GIAC deal is almost criminal its so bad.
There you go. No PC, no BS just chicken dinners for Kyle.
One last point. Some may ask .. "but Dave what is wrong with 15psi at 3900-4300rpm this tune calls for more boost. Wont it take longer to get to 15psi?" I can only tell you that when the timing/fuel/boost tables are properly calibrated you will make more power, faster, safer and enjoy keeping your engine intact for much longer.
Pat's car hits full boost and 15psi by....ready? Dont hold your breath....
3200rpm.
That is why Pat's car makes power. That is why Eurocharged have done a fantastic job of developing this tune. And its a fraction of the GIAC price.
But hey, what do I know. I'm one of the suckers that buy BND products. Oh yeah as does Pat.
Originally Posted by 4everRS
Last edited by DHall1; June 10th, 2010 at 22:26.
This is very interesting, and pretty much convinced me to choose a Eurocharged tune over any of the other manufacturers.
So Dave, let me get this straight. You're saying that a the inherent lean condition of the GIAC tune would cause a longer spool up time of the turbo's? So it would be safe to assume if you had a GIAC tune and it was taking too long to meet requested boost that it could be caused by this lean condition? And because the a/f ratio meets an acceptable criteria at higher rpms, that requested boost would be met faster at highway pulls compared to acceleration from a stop?
Pat - Eisenmann race exhaust, Catless downpipes, KW V3's, H-Sport sways, 034 Control arms, Apikol diff mount, Sterns motor mounts, Forge dv's, Stainless brake lines, Venair hoses, Sportec vent mod, Euro tails, Viper Tuned ecu/tcu, DPE S20's 19x9.5, 275/30/19's
Oh Pat,
The reason it spools faster at speed is the higher gear, higher load and higher exhaust flow to start the process. As I said, the turbos will finally reach peak boost due to the higher rpm creating a higher exhaust flow to drive the turbine housing. At no point in the GIAC dyno graph listed is the A/F ratio safe to run. GIAC have appeared to have produced an epic fail of a product for the RS6. Not only is it dangerous to run but its slow to boot.
Don't forget $hitty stock leaky intercoolers...
SOLD - 03 RS6 Avus (905355)
Current - 03 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 double cab - the YETI, lifted, winched, snorkeled, lockered, skidded, geared
There goes Ben to stir up the pot again.
Yes, Pat and I run the shitty stock intercoolers. You had to remind everyone didnt ya
Don't forget $hitty stock leaky intercoolers...
I am running the same shit also... Must be a Avus Silver thing... yo!
SOLD - 03 RS6 Avus (905355)
Current - 03 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 double cab - the YETI, lifted, winched, snorkeled, lockered, skidded, geared
Ok guys. Now that we have finally beaten the GIAC horse to death, Bumping this to get opinions. 3rd Run was good for both of us as far as the smoothing out of the hp and tq curves.
Also Dave, as your probably not busy doing anything else, do some research and post a video of the spray pattern of the patio misters. This may be the wrong thread for it though. I may want a couple of misters sent to me in lieu of that chicken dinner.
Avus Silver RS6 - Viper Stage 2 ECU/TCU - Water/Meth Injection - Frozen Rotors - Hbars - clear corners - Hella smoked tails - gutted precats
I want to bring this back up again real quick. You guys have already steered me away from GIAC based on knowledge way beyond what i have. So i have been researching eurocharged, revo, and apr. Does APR fall into the same category as GIAC?
No, APR is a good tune, just too damn expensive. It does offer more features, such as brake boosting, the ability to switch between programs, and they turn off the secondary o2 sensors should you ever do aftermarket downpipes. I don't need any of these features, so I opted for the Eurocharged tune for substantially less money. If you do go with the Eurocharged tune, make sure you purchase the 91 octane tune. The 93 octane file that I'm running will be a stage 2 tune from here on out as it exceeds the torque limits of both the stock and MTM tcu.
Pat - Eisenmann race exhaust, Catless downpipes, KW V3's, H-Sport sways, 034 Control arms, Apikol diff mount, Sterns motor mounts, Forge dv's, Stainless brake lines, Venair hoses, Sportec vent mod, Euro tails, Viper Tuned ecu/tcu, DPE S20's 19x9.5, 275/30/19's
Great Pat, thanks as usual for all the info.
For the 93 octane/stage 2 tune, are there any options that are better to handle it than the MTM TCU? or do you need to start upgrading the internals of the trans at that point?
The trans should be fine, it's just a matter of raising the specified torque limits in the tcu, beyond what the MTM chip provides. I'm looking into it, but haven't found any options as of yet. Eurocharged is looking into tuning the tcu's, but it's still in development. I'll definitely be posting up info as I gain it.
Pat - Eisenmann race exhaust, Catless downpipes, KW V3's, H-Sport sways, 034 Control arms, Apikol diff mount, Sterns motor mounts, Forge dv's, Stainless brake lines, Venair hoses, Sportec vent mod, Euro tails, Viper Tuned ecu/tcu, DPE S20's 19x9.5, 275/30/19's
I will throw this out there again:
How does MTM do it with 575HP tune?
How does Sportec do it with the RS600 tune?
Unless your HP/TQ levels are surpassing these tuners/companies....
SOLD - 03 RS6 Avus (905355)
Current - 03 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 double cab - the YETI, lifted, winched, snorkeled, lockered, skidded, geared
my apr tune was 2200 for chip and transmission
Great question. One notable thing I see is that the torque of Pat's car far exceeds the torque of the APR tune. Anyone have a max torque spec for the MTM 575? Don't know about the RS600 tune though. APR's website says that the torque on 93 octane is 538ft./lbs. at the crank. Pat's car is doing 528 at the wheels.
Pat, what rpm is the "hiccup" happening at? Also, what throttle position do you most notice it at?
Avus Silver RS6 - Viper Stage 2 ECU/TCU - Water/Meth Injection - Frozen Rotors - Hbars - clear corners - Hella smoked tails - gutted precats
I guess I will PM 10SecS4 for the answer on the RS600...
Where is Mr. Balsen's little finger for the MTM response??
SOLD - 03 RS6 Avus (905355)
Current - 03 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 double cab - the YETI, lifted, winched, snorkeled, lockered, skidded, geared
No offense to anyone here, but I wish people would stop quoting flywheel HP numbers, UNLESS you've actually engine dyno'd, kinda deceiving, getting peoples hopes up and all......again, no offense to anyone in particular. WHP on a particular dyno, easier to figure it out that way...or road performance numbers (ie, trap speed, Pbox numbers, etc...).
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