New theory about RS5 engine

[tailpipe]

A journalist at the UK's Car Magazine was told by Wolfgang Hatz last year that the RS5 would get a twin-turbo 4.2 FSI. They ran a very good story about it. A development mule with this engine has been seen on the Ring. From the sound it sounds like a turbo and is distinctly different from noise of RS4 (see YouTube).

That was last year. Since then the world economy has melted down. Suddenly Audi realizes that such an engine is no longer appropriate and so commences work on 4.0-litre TFSI.

Meanwhile, Audi delays choice of engine in RS5 until it decides when to launch it. If Audi launches RS5 this year, then why not simply slot in existing 4.2 FSI engine from R8 with 450 bhp? Perhaps it could be slightly returned to deliver 465 bhp. Development costs = close to zero.

Then when 4.0-litre TFSI is ready, they just slot that in instead. Alternatively, they just delay launch until 4.0 engine is ready and launch RS4 and RS5 at the same time.

Just a theory.

[Leadfoot]

tailpipe,

I think if you look about I gave that theory a few weeks ago so it ain't a new theory at all.

P.S.

After I wrote that 'theory' I received a PM stating that the RS5 would not have an engine change like is the case with the S5 and it would be a N/A V8.

[The Pretender]

The 4.0TFSI is a ± 395 hp V8 supercharged engine developed for the next gen A8.

Jarod.

[tvrfan]

The 4.0TFSI is a ± 395 hp V8 supercharged engine developed for the next gen A8.

Jarod.

wrong, in interview at an older AMS was a interview with Dr. Stefan Dengler (engine deveplment) and he said the new 4.0 TFSI will be a Twin Turbo with turbos mounted in the V.

[HKS786]

The 4.0TFSI is a ± 395 hp V8 supercharged engine developed for the next gen A8.

Jarod.

wrong, in interview at an older AMS was a interview with Dr. Stefan Dengler (engine deveplment) and he said the new 4.0 TFSI will be a Twin Turbo with turbos mounted in the V.

I dont know if its turbo'd or supercharged, but I do know from the spreadsheet (which has been accurate so far about everything) says this new engine will appear in the S7 too.

[Leadfoot]

The problem is that since Audi used the exact same letter arrangement for both turbo and supercharger applications it's really harder to know what it really is.

Audi has said that the 3.0SC would be the biggest unit to use a supercharger but is it known whether that statement was referring to RS models or the rest of the range.

I haven't heard any info on the engine so either it's a well kept secret or this engine isn't going into an RS model anytime soon.

[tailpipe]

After I posting this, I realized that Qisha had in fact confirmed that RS5 would be the first car to get the new 4.0 litre TFSI engine.

I certainly don't think that RS5 will get NA engine, Leadfoot.

[AndyBG]

After I posting this, I realized that Qisha had in fact confirmed that RS5 would be the first car to get the new 4.0 litre TFSI engine.

I certainly don't think that RS5 will get NA engine, Leadfoot.

I certanly hope you have right, and that RS 5 will be getting that engine...

[Leadfoot]

After I posting this, I realized that Qisha had in fact confirmed that RS5 would be the first car to get the new 4.0 litre TFSI engine.

I certainly don't think that RS5 will get NA engine, Leadfoot.

Check again with that Qisha said, here it is to save you looking.

Dear Friends,

dont want to shorten up the discussion, but some hints:

-RS5 final specs are decided and approved by the executive board
-RS5 will have a unique RS car look
-no RS car will change specs during lifecycle
-RS4 B8 development request is not confirmed yet
-most likely the RS4 B8 will use the same base specs like the RS5
-at this time the market introduction will more likely be early 2010 than late 2009
-software engineering is under finalization (finish schedule: end of 1st quarter)
-finishing on drivetrain and suspension set up is following thereafter (finish schedule: 2nd quarter)
-final longrun tests finish up by the end of the 3rd quarter
-the only 4.2 forced induction engine is a diesel
-engine size as well as capacity will decrease prospectively
-performance figures and output will increase adequate

If you look in the future you can anticipate staged induction, Ionic injection and combined combustion- to name some catchwords.

Qisha

I think you reckon the part I highlighted in bold refers to the RS5........why?

Qisha's comments were only a reaction to your own comments stating that the RS5 will have a 4.2TT and was only stating that it is not the case, the only 4.2 TT is the 4.2TDi.

[tailpipe]

Hi Leadfoot,

What Qisha is saying is that the forced induction engine in the RS5 mules pounding around the Nurburgring are in fact 4.0-litre forced induction units.

He backs this up by saying engine size and capacity will be decreased. 4.0-litre engine is physically much smaller in overall size than 4.2 litre FSI as well as being .02 litre less in capacity.

Thanks to the TFSI tech performance will increase dramatically.

He also mentioned that staged induction and ionic injection are in the pipeline: both are features of new 4.0-litre.

The discussion I had with an Audi marketing person over the Christmas holidays explained the internal debate about do we launch with 4.2 soon or wait for new 4.0 later was clearly old news. Audi had already decided to wait before releasing RS5 so that it could have the much better 4.0-litre engine. This means RS5 will arrive in middle of 2010 not this year, again confirmed by Qisha. :asian:

My conversation with Audi person was generally related to how brilliant this new 4.0-litre engine is. I asked about NA 4.2 versus TT and he said that it is end of the road for NA. Even R8 will get new 4.0-litre V8 when it is refreshed.

my bet is that Qisha probably realizes he said more than he should have already so will not reply. Let's see!

[KresoF1]

Hmm... Leadie is right and Tailpipe is wrong.

First Audi with new 4.0TFSI will NOT BE RS5.

All Qisha's informations are correct and Leadie interpretation of them is accurate one.

[tvrfan]

first audi with 4.0 TFSI will be maybe the A8. but i think the RS5 will get it to. audi isnt so stupid to put the 4.2l V8 in the RS5, because of emission. also it wouldnt be vorsprung durch technik

[tailpipe]

Hmm... Leadie is right and Tailpipe is wrong.

First Audi with new 4.0TFSI will NOT BE RS5.

All Qisha's informations are correct and Leadie interpretation of them is accurate one.

Let me be clear about what i do know and what i don't.

I know that 4.2 FSI V8 is on its way out. NA being replaced by forced induction because it is best way to maximize performance and economy while minimizing emissions. Period.

RS4 will get V8 not V6. It has to because C63, M3 and ISF all offer V8s. They are the class standard. Period.

Fuel economy on current RS4 is shocking. NA 4.2 FSI is now politically unacceptable. In fact, this is the entire reason why a new 4.0-litre V8 was commissioned.

I am not interested in RS5 so didn't ask my Audi contact about what it would get. But marketing guy say that 4.0-litre V8 was a shoe-in for the RS4.

It therefore makes sense to put same engine in RS5. What it doesn't make sense is to put thirsty NA 4.2 V8. We know for sure that RS5 mules pounding around ring have been turboed and are not NA. Listen to the noise on various films. (See Youtube).

Finally, we have Qisha's enigmatic post on other thread, which I interpret as confirmation that RS5 will get new 4.0-litre V8.

Interestingly, new Audi A8 arrives before RS5 and RS4 which is why it will be first car in range to get it.

I hope that clears up everything.

[KresoF1]

Just one comment about "thirst"...

All German tests unfortunately clearly presented one thing as a fact. New S4 is not any better in real world fuel consumption then "old" S5. Yes, on papers things look good but, how is driving 120km/h in sixth gear in real world? Or in seventh if you use S Tronic in new S4? Nobody...

[AndyBG]

...and all this is bringing us back to the start and the fact that these engines will use as much fuel as you give them, wether they are N/A, turbo, S/C, FSI, TFSI, TSI, DFI...

[tailpipe]

I'm not sure I agree with your claim that all German tests share such a view. Do you really think that that the new 3.0-litre engine offers only marginally improved fuel consumption over old 4.2 V8. Moreover, even if German testers do conclude such a thing, I'm not convinced that such magazine reviews are accurate anyway, since most testers do little more than thrash such cars on the circuit for two hours. It's hardly what you call representative of real world motoring.

[KresoF1]

Usual test for German magazines last for several days and they made up to 5000km with test example.
One of my friends works for Motorpresse(company that publish AMS and Sport Auto), he drove new S4-both manual and S Tronic-his conclusion is that in fuel consumption new engine is really marginally better then old one in S5.

[artur777]

THe contradiction is evident.

It looks like RS5 will get 4.2NA engine which is obsolete.
But for Audi itis better to launch it with 4.0TFSI for various reasons.
The crisis gives a chance to delay the RS5 launch.

THe question is: why did Audi decide to go with NA engine if they have all the opportunitites to do it with TFSI egnine?
Please explain their logic to me...
I don't catch it at all