trouble for RS4 - E92 M3 starts at $54,575

[rks838]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...hotopanel..1.*

The RS4 starts at $66,910. The S4 starts at $48,610. And, the new M3 sedan starts at...$54,575!!! I see a problem here - the M3 and RS4 are in the exact same performance league. And let's face it, most RS4 buyers take at least a glance at the M3 before writing a check to Audi. It only takes a glance to see that the incredibly similar M3 is over $12,000 less than the RS4! As an RS4 fanatic, even I would seriously consider buying the M3.

Did Audi, playing on a (arguably) higher level than the E46 M3 and the C55 AMG for a couple of years, simply charge such a high price for the RS4 because they could, because the RS4 had no true competition? Did they anticipate the B7 RS4's run ending right as the new M3 came out? Or did they not expect such a low base price for the M3 from BMW?

Or, does Audi simply know that the RS4 is such a lower-volume car than the M3 that people will buy it even thought it's $12,000 more expensive?

In any case, if the RS4 was directly competing against the E92 M3, the Audi showrooms against the BMW showrooms next door, I have trouble picturing many customers buying the RS4. $12,000? That's huge.

However, what is more relevant is this issue - won't an S4 driver have trouble justifying his purchase when he could have gotten 80 more horsepower, and wholly better performance car, with the E92 M3? Or are S4 and M3 buyers actually in distinct classes from one another? Right now, I think that SOME S4 buyers are also looking at the M3, and that some are not, and vice-versa with M3 buyers looking at the S4.

[Tony Lam]

rks838, i know what u mean here but u know what....in hong kong the new M3 cost $1.37m "it's about USD $175,641" & new RS 4 cost $1.23m "it's about USD $157,962" it makes about $18000 different, however the new C63AMG cost only $1.1M "it's about USD $141,025".....that's why i only see 1 new M3 on the street so far................!!

[Cargo8]

Korea, and Hong Kong, etc. have RIDICULOUS prices for cars...
I think that it is definitely an issue, but somewhat minor. The RS4 is not meant to be a mass production car, it is and has always been planned to be a limited production car (ending reasonably soon...). The M3 wants to seel 100,000 units or some such thing. This could be one reason. The alternate is simply that Audi has always charged more for their cars in the same bracket, for true audi enthusiasts (i suppose) will pay for the extra fit and finish of audis, which is arguably, but mostly agreed upon, as superior. However, yes, to the average Joe choosing his next car, he will choose BMW for bang/for/buck, perhaps, or Audi simply for comfort (not RS or S, etc). This may be hurting Audi's reputation and widespread consumer market, but who cares. We just have to deal with more "So Audi is like one step below BMW right?" comments, but I don't really care. Do you?

[AuditudeA642]

Sorry to burst your bubble but have you seen what you get for 54k. No nav, no heated seats, 18" wheels, no carbon roof, no sunroof, no leather seats, no back up sensors the list goes on and on. I priced out an M3 with Carbon Roof, Leather seats, Navigation and the optional 19's for shits and giggles and they wanted 74k. Thats more than an RS4. If you want an M3 with Corolla options then be my guest and pay 54k.

[AuditudeA642]

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...modelcode=0854

Here is an M3 Sedan Priced out with every option my RS4 has. Came out to 67,945. So sticker price is a couple thousand less than the RS4. The difference is the RS4 is elite and there are not alot around. You will see 10 m3's a day compared to 1-2 rs4's a month if that.

[JWC]

Not to mention AWD must cost a few dollars more than RWD. IMHO you just can't base cars value / price on performance alone. Cheap interiors on the new 3's can also save you a few dollars. Heck a stock EVO will run with them for thousands less but it's still a Lancer!

[MrBucket]

I doubt there will be more than just a few m3 sold in the us for under 55k, bmw makes it look like the car is a good bit cheaper until you actually want any options in them. Audi had pretty much just one option package for the RS4 for $4700 which loaded the car up completely. BMW gets you for just about everything the RS4 came with stock or in that option package.

[mbolo]

I speced a sedan out as with my RS with premium package. Landed on a sturdy healthy €87´. That's a lot of money for a car with a cheap plastic spoiler and old rear lights.

On the same note, I have to admit that it is growing on me.. Like to see a touring version of it too...

[PetrolDave]

Like to see a touring version of it too...

Until BMW make an M3 Touring available it won't even appear on my list of cars - I need the practicality of an estate/Avant/Touring, which is why I have an RS4 Avant (my previous 3 Audis have all been Avants too - 2 x S4 + 1 x 1.9 TDi Sport).

BMW do an M5 Touring, so why not an M3 Touring???

[+44 Dave]

The M3 doesnt really have any competition from Audi at the moment now that RS4 is out of production. If you want an RS4 but fear it costs more in the US than an M3 buy one second hand.

Also the reason its more expensive is because its imported especially, there are very few RS4's in the US. In the UK where we recieve a large proportion of RS cars the RS4 used to cost less than the new M3.

[raulg]

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...modelcode=0854

Here is an M3 Sedan Priced out with every option my RS4 has. Came out to 67,945. So sticker price is a couple thousand less than the RS4. The difference is the RS4 is elite and there are not alot around. You will see 10 m3's a day compared to 1-2 rs4's a month if that.

Indeed, the price difference is only a few thousands for the same options, still cheaper but not with 12k cheaper!

I would have no problem paying a little more on an RS4 since I get the quattro and an interior I love, my issue is the fact the new RS4 is far away and I have a problem buying NOW the B7 when the B8 platform is out. I like the new body and new interior, I don't wanna get the current RS4 because of that and the new one is far away... I might end up with the B8 S4 in the meantime...

[rks838]

Well, to play devil's advocate, I think there are many people who will pass on heated seats, navigation, and gimmicky carbon-fiber roofs (if no other company has turned to this, well, it's not necessary...) solely to get the 420hp engine. I just built a thrifty M3 for $57K, and I have a feeling that I wouldn't be worried about the lack of heated seats when scooting through traffic or driving a mountain road! Although they ARE necessities for many, perhaps most, people these days, navi systems, heated seats, parking sensors, etc. were not even options ten years ago. There are going to be a good number of pure driving buffs who get the M3 in the mid $50s. The engine is what you cannot get in a Corolla. Even the lack of leather is apparently justified - BMW got criticized for this with their last M3, but obviously a good number of buyers went for that, because they're doing the same thing a full 8 years later! BMW and Audi are not trying to build the exact same car for the exact same market, I now realize...

(By the way, my humble opinion is that navigation systems are ridiculous wastes of money! Unless you're a common road-tripper, what's wrong with a $20 paper map of your home city?!)

The volume point is quite legitimate. 100,000 M3s is gonna make them a dime a dozen. Audi is not trying to make gobs of money with the RS4, it's trying to make a brand statement. At the least, the RS4's goal is more in this direction than that of the M3.

Actually, Audi had to be fully aware that their RS4 would never really be in showrooms at the same time as the M3. In any case, they seemed to price the RS4 intelligently, considering the overall circumstances.

[Randy M]

I bought a new RS4 less than a month ago. Fully optioned the new M3 is a few thousand USD less than the RS4, but for me quattro is worth several thousand dollars over any rear wheel drive car; and the fit, finish and interior appointments are a few steps above the new M3.

[Charles DLF]

let's just say that's the cost of styling and design... i'd pay for it any given day...


Alright, i'm out of here!

[Xpower]

[Randy M]

How does that work? M3 sedan with 19"wheels and moonroof comes to $57K incl destination & handling.RS4 sedan is $66 910 with no destination. They have the same xtra's except the BM has 4 year maintenance plan included in the price.

The RS4 has much more than just 19's and a sunroof. That's how it works...

Enjoy your 4 oil changes...

[Xpower]

The RS4 has much more than just 19's and a sunroof. That's how it works...

Enjoy your 4 oil changes...

It may well be 4 oil changes. It may not be. The point is the M3 has 4yr maintenance, 4yr warranty & 4yr roadside assistance which the RS does not. There is a significant cost involved in having the infrastructure to support such an offering. I'm sure you will belittle any extra the M3 has that the RS4 doesn't, but someone, somewhere may be thankful for it one day and be prepared to pay for peace of mind.

[MrBucket]

It may well be 4 oil changes. It may not be. The point is the M3 has 4yr maintenance, 4yr warranty & 4yr roadside assistance which the RS does not. There is a significant cost involved in having the infrastructure to support such an offering. I'm sure you will belittle any extra the M3 has that the RS4 doesn't, but someone, somewhere may be thankful for it one day and be prepared to pay for peace of mind.

When buying a car like the RS4 its easy to get the dealership to throw in the maintenance.