Daytona Speedway event - 4 RS6's

[ruxprncd]

Had a GREAT time at the Daytona event this past weekend. There were 3 other RS6's among an incredible collection of cars - from APR's GTI racecars, to a Carrera GT, countless 911 variants including GT2s and GT3s, AMG, Ferrari, Lambo, Ford GT, Lotus, S4s, Vettes, a 2008 S6....you get the idea.

All of us had a ton of track time: A total of 10 20-30 minute sessions (3 Fri, 3 Sat, 4 Sun). It was a 3.5 mile course, covering ~80% of the oval plus an infield section. There was a chicane at the end of the back straightaway.

One of the RS6's (hopefully he'll post here - from Atlanta) had issues with brakes - I don't have all of the details, but believe that he started with OEM setup across the board, put on different pads on Saturday, and maybe swapped fluid on Sunday (?). I ran hi-temp fluid, EBC Yellowstuff pads up front, and cryo-treated OEM front rotors - and had no issues at all. Another RS6 (Jack) had a (partial?) Phaeton brake ducting setup, using all OEM parts - hopefully he'll post details of that here as well.

I ran Sport mode almost the full time, plus a bit of Tip. Even with the warm (80 F +) temperatures, no problem with excessive heat: the oil temp would go to ~250F right away, but stay pegged there the entire session.

This was only my second event, but even the many track veterans agreed this was a special one. Daytona has to be one of the best-suited courses for the RS6 - hopefully this first-ever drivers ed event at Daytona won't be the last, and I'd *highly* recommend it to all if it happens again!

[mmaturo]

Awesome experience for you...I sssssssssssoooooooooooooo wanted to do it...had it been one week closer to Christmas when i will be driving to Jacksonville/Gainesville/Tampa anyway...very rare event and if it happens again next year I will do it...had good posts on Audiworld from Dave (Daveykid) with the heavily modified (it is a racecar now) red R32 there...looked like incredible fun from the one video he posted (and incredibly challenging he said having been to tracks around the country)..can't imagine what its like to have the RS6 up on the banking...can't wait to do it myself. Sounds like your setup worked well...thats exactly what I have (or will do again anyway for my next track day) except I haven't done the freezing of the rotors...the EBCs (yellow) worked well for me at Autobahn CC here in Chicago for our last DE event. Good to know it worked for you at Daytona. The EBCs were still less squeaky then my OEM pads i put back on the car. You MUST use the high temp brake fluid in these things as it will otherwise fade/boil at exactly 20 minutes of lapping every run otherwise...having used the OEM fluid for 4 of 6 events with identical results every time.

I have run on hot days and while the oil temp stays reasonable (stable like you had at 250) the heat soak still will sap off HP significantly if temps are in the 90s, as boost is really not there from the turbos as heat builds. I spend a lot of extra time rolling around at idle speed in the paddock to cool the brakes and engine after runs...way more than my TT I tracked.

[DuckWingDuck]

Damn, that does sound fun. I wonder if California Speedway out there in Fontana does this sort of stuff.

[ben916]

Damn, that does sound fun. I wonder if California Speedway out there in Fontana does this sort of stuff.

Or Willow Springs? The Big Track, not the Streets, too tight for a heavier car...

[DuckWingDuck]

Nod, that'd be awesome too. Ben, go check the julian run thread, esp. since you're local in SD!

[dwarfboy]

I'm the guy from Atlanta with the brake problems. I started on friday with stock everything and dot4 brake fluid. My first session went without incident, but 24 minutes into my second session my brake fluid boiled and I lost my brakes completely. I arranged to have some track specific pads delivered saturday morning and had my brake fluid flushed and filled with fresh castrol DOT4 fluid. I was only able to get one session on saturday, but ran the whole 30 minutes without incident. At the suggestion of one of the other RS6 drivers I turned off the ESP for sunday. This turned out to be key. I ran 3 sessions sunday including one just before lunch that ran to 35 minutes without incident. On my last session of the day I forgot to turn off my ESP and again boiled my brake fluid about 24 minutes into the session. I was fortunate that other drivers on the track had good awareness because I lost the brakes at the end of the back straight and wound up driving straight through the chicane and infield at a high rate of speed. The car in front of me could have easily turned into me when I couldn't slow, and I'm not sure how much I could have done to avoid him, but he stayed wide as I flew past on the inside.
Before I take on a track like Daytona again I will certainly be fitting the phaeton brake cooling mod, and using a brake fluid that can handle higher temperatures than the castrol DOT4 that I mentioned. I was pushing pretty hard; reaching speeds exceeding 150mph at the beginning of the tri-oval section before letting off the gas and crossing the start/finish line.

[Benman]

Jatwrite (JAXRS6) was also there and was one of the RS 6s there (Mugello Blue).

Ben

[JAXRS6]

What a great time! I can't recall having more fun with my clothes on.

This was only my second event too, the first being in 2001 at Waterford Hills, Michigan, in my chipped B5 A4 (200 hp). Topped out at 80 mph. It was a fun little track in a fun little car compared to Daytona in a 450 hp RS 6, where even as a rookie I twice hit 140 mph and learned to "cruise" comfortably at 130 around the banked turns. No doubt could add 10 mph if I had more experience, nerve, or both -- the power was there. Suspension and brakes performed flawlessly. I'm stock except for brakes.

I did modify my brakes just before going, after reading many posts here about brakes becoming toast at track events. I needed new front rotors anyway and went stock with those, then added Pagid Blue pads. Also installed stainless steel brake lines all around and used brake fluid with a higher temperature tolerance -- Motul I think, but it's not named on my receipt.

My receipt's write-up also seems to conflict a bit with what I was told over the phone about the final mod: adding Phaeton brake ducts. So before I describe the installation I need to talk to the dealer (Suncoast) that did the work and that won't happen til Monday. Meantime I can tell you the whole thing worked very well: No overheating, no spongy pedal, no loss of braking power, no reason to slow down on the tri-oval despite the relative heat mentioned by others -- until the very end when a couple of odd noises showed up. The advantage of the ducts is that the faster you go, the more cooling they produce -- and there are long stretches of go-fast at Daytona!

Neither of the noises returned while driving 230 mi home at 70 mph. Suncoast agrees the noises probably were heat-related -- Sunday was the hottest day, I think -- and not to bother with the 100 mile round trip to check it out unless noises return.

Diversity of the 150 drivers and their cars was impressive. From as far as Oregon and Quebec, ages ranging from 20s to 70ish, with one of the latter hitting 180 mph in his Carerra GT.

It was a great learning experience for all, including instructors and I'm sure some pros, given that Daytona never had held this kind of event before. The fact that it went incident-free should bode well for a repeat, we who attended hope. Contrasts in performance were striking: The RS6 gave ground to few on the banked tri-oval but suffered on the tighter and flat infield turns, where lighter cars prevailed -- especially as the heat built up and things got greasy for us. But traction on the tri-oval never was an issue, due to it's banking and less need for leaving rubber on the track.

My instructor, a veteran of 200 track events, said at one point as we were cruising at about 130: "I wonder how they go three abreast." I asked what he meant. "NASCAR," he said. "They drive three abreast here at 200 mph, and I just wonder how they do it!" One look at the seemingly narrow track around us made his point obvious. We both gained new respect for NASCAR drivers, who may only turn left but do so at speeds and in conditons requiring mucho cojones.

Even entering Daytona was awesome. I felt like one of the high school basketball players in the scene from "Hoosiers" where they enter the huge Indianapolis field house for the first time and look up, jaws dropped from the mere size of the place. At Daytona the 31 degree banking impresses immediately, in a way that two-dimensional TV coverage and photos can't convey, and the way the two huge grandstands flank the track impresses again -- especially when entering from the orignal narrow tunnel (north end I think). Some cars arrived in pretty pricey digs, i.e. fully enclosed in their own trailer rig, further elevating the aura compared to Waterford Hills. Which, again, is a fun track. But Daytona is legendary and seeing it is to know why.

"I'm running with the big dogs now," I thought upon arriving. By the end I had become a smoother, safer, and faster driver -- in that order -- while learning, having fun and building confidence.

Pro Driver Randy Pobst was there with APR and spoke at the Saturday night dinner. Randy won many races in the RS6, 2003-2004. He immediately started praising the RS6, whereupon I moved towards the front and loaned him my new RS6 baseball cap for a photo. He hammed for me, then went on about how driving tight turns is nice but there's nothing like the massive torque produced by the RS6. He called it one of the best cars he's ever driven and I don't think he mentioned another Audi model.

Bless you Randy! I'm sure some 911 owners were thinking, "Geez, you mean I can have this much fun and a back seat too?"

[Benman]

Jax, awesome write-up. And I agree that Randy is 1st Class.

Ben

[JAXRS6]

Sorry this took so long but it's fairly simple to pass on: The Audi dealer tech used this thread as his guide for the parts and installation of the Phaeton brake ducts, and everything worked out fine -- for him and for me at Daytona:

http://rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?...hlight=PHAETON

Many thanks to skiwi for the thread! The tech must have been impressed, because in past years this particular dealer has not been eager to follow forum advice.

My other mods were Pagid RS4-2 Blue pads on front, stainless steel brake lines (no brand or FP number shown), and racing brake fluid with FP number 1-203-900 (again no brand listed but I think it was Motul). Rear pads & rotors looked OK, so no change was made to prep.

Since I made all three changes at once, it's hard to know which was most important. But I suspect the ducts are especially suited to Daytona, since the faster you go, the more air is forced into brake cooling and the better they work. Most of the distance at Daytona was at triple digits speeds.

I still think about it, and others who hear about it are impressed. Ripping around a three mile tri-oval at 130-140 mph, hard braking, taking the chicane at maybe 90, blast off to 130 again, then to challenges of staying put on the slippery-when-hot infield road course, then back to 130-140 ... and I was the slowest RS6 out there! All in a roomy and stylish AWD sedan still mistaken for new at times that is suited just as well for a night at the opera, hauling home a new ladder, or a comfortable cross country trip.

Considering the price these days -- under $40K in the US, I hear -- is anything better out there?! I've owned mine since new in Aug 03 and, after a brief recent spin on a local rural road where I can, er, reach Daytona speed briefly at 3 a.m., I can't wait to go back to Daytona itself again for tons of such fun without having to worry about "getting caught"!


Question for others who were there: Now that it's been a while, I wonder what you think. Since most or all of you had tracked your RS6s elsewhere before, I wonder how you compare the tracks you've driven. Not overall facilities, necessarily -- just the track. What I loved about Daytona was being able to reach those triple digit speeds on a sustained basis, thanks to the 31 degree banking. I also loved that it did not beat up my car. At 70K mi I still have no rattles and want to keep it that way. The oval was a bit lumpy, but not a lot and I detected zero sharp bumps.

Can you think of another track that meets those criteria as well?

[ruxprncd]

Hi Jack - Brad from Tampa here. My only other track event was in 2002, with my B5 S4, at Portland (OR) International Raceway. PIR is a flat track (not banked), with a lot more twisties than the Daytona course we ran. I agree with you that it's hard to imagine a track better suited to the RS6 than Daytona!

Thanks for the additional info on the Phaeton duct install. Were you able to figure out the price? I remember your receipt had a lot of other work included as well.

[JAXRS6]

The labor is not broken down for each of the brake things I did, but here's the price list for my brake mod parts (all in USD):

$$$ Item

405 Set of Pagid RS-4 2 Blue pads, front only
50 Racing brake fluid ($25x2)
120 for two parts marked "shield" (meaning the Phaeton ducts I presume)
40 for two marked "guide"
11 misc bolts
225 stainless steel brake lines

So parts price for my mods totals $851, not including labor or tax. Plus it was time for new front rotors, which I got stock; their cost is shown here and I assume the "brake lining" cost belongs here too:

900 front rotors (stock RS6)
363 brake lining
67 brake lining (same FP # as listing above but different price; don't know why)

So the subtotal for stock rotors is $1330, parts only.

Plus labor, with no per-project breakdown -- to install stock rotors, Pagid pads, Phaeton ducts, stainless steel lines, Motul brake fluid, plus oil & filter change, replace wipers and washer coolant, set tires to 41 psi (my best guess at the time): $540.

So the grand total to have everything done at my dealer was 851 + 1330 + 540 = $2721 before tax. When you consider I needed front rotors & pads anyway and had to spend about $1700 anyway, the improvements cost around $1021 including labor that lists bleeding the brakes twice -- well worth the result IMO. And I very much like the final words describing the tech's efforts:

"Reassembled to fact spec"
---------------------------------------------------------------
PS - I need to correct something I wrote earlier, when I called the weekend "incident-free." Some cars, including mine and Brad's (as he described above), went off the track. In my case I slid off the slower infield course onto grass with loss of traction due to mounting track surface heat, my second time out. Fortunately I remembered how to recover and nothing was in the way. Plus I saw a couple of others with infield traction failure. But I never saw indications of damage to a car or injury to a person, or heard of any. If some else knows differently, please post. But for now Daytona 2007 might best be described as free of SERIOUS incident -- thrills excepted!

[Cdo]

.... and I'd *highly* recommend it to all if it happens again!

Sounds like great fun! Over here we have The Green Hell (Nurburgring) which also can make your heart beat twice the speed. I guess A Beast will do best on long curciuts.....

Do you have any pictures from the scene?

/Claus