R8 Ring time achived by Sport auto is...

[3x5PSI]

What time did the CSL do a 5 years ago?

[Leadfoot]

What time did the CSL do a 5 years ago?

Yep, a truly amazing time and set so long ago that you BMW fans have to keep reminding yourselves that at one time you were the :king: of the ring.

But it does get me to thinking, will there ever be another BMW able to post such a time in the near future. As Mr Clarkson says 'a Concorde moment' in BMW's history, everything since has been down hill.

[3x5PSI]

Yeah until the next M3 & CSL beat that time. It's called progress. Tyre & suspension technology at BMW go forward, & the E92 has a lot more power. There is no secret in the CSL's time. The Schnitzer CSL with a stock engine did 7:40.

[Leadfoot]

Yeah until the next M3 & CSL beat that time. It's called progress. Tyre & suspension technology at BMW go forward, & the E92 has a lot more power. There is no secret in the CSL's time. The Schnitzer CSL with a stock engine did 7:40.

But what will you say if the next M3 doesn't equal or beat this time which I very much doubt it will. Will you then say 'Oh but it only had to beat the time of the old M3 and the RS4' in which case it will, sorry but there is no way on God's earth that the standard M3v8 will post a 7:52 lap.

Now the CSL will be a different story, all of BMW's know how will go in to achieving this goal but in creating such a beast they will be leaving themselves wide open for ridicule if it doesn't achieve it's goal of beating the old car.

Regardless of what you feel about Audi RS cars, they have always upped their game with each new version and no doubt the new RS5 will move the game forward from where the RS4 left off. I doubt it too will get close to the CSL's time but then it's doesn't have to, to be classed a success, now does it.

[Toto89]

CSL was a fast car around the ring, that's true, but we should not forget that it was one car with BMW badge on it which could do something around the ring in the last few years. But if we compare them to Audis: ok, last years Audis are slower in straight line but these slower cars can beat easily the 'faster' BMWs around every ring and every corners. Not the CSL but every M series except CSL.

[Erik]

To assume that the Magnetic Rid would do 15 seconds is a bit optimistic I think

First of all, do we know that it really improves the performance on the 'Ring?
Remember it add weight as well and I'm sure Audi knows which car and setting that has the optimal performance.

If I remember correct, the BMW M5 set its best time in its softest setting (I think there's about 255 different options altogether).

Getting back where I started. People expect too much, it isn't possible to delete 15-30 seconds each time there is a new version.

But if you like to look for excuses I think KresoF1 is in on one, I haven't seen the test R8 vs. RS4 side by side so I can't compare the speed in different corners.

[Leadfoot]

To assume that the Magnetic Rid would do 15 seconds is a bit optimistic I think

First of all, do we know that it really improves the performance on the 'Ring?
Remember it add weight as well and I'm sure Audi knows which car and setting that has the optimal performance.

Totally agree and said as much myself, but my opinion of the benefits of the MagneticRide option over standard/SS+ are correct, normal suspension has to work in a much narrower tolerances then the other, if it's set up for ultimate control it's will ride destroyed and if set or comfort it's the handling that's shot. Regardless if MagnetRide is softer on normal setting than SS+ because of the technology it will still control the chassis better than the SS+. Whether this is equal to a quicker time in the hand of a professional, I don't know but for the rest of us I reckon it will.

If I remember correct, the BMW M5 set its best time in its softest setting (I think there's about 255 different options altogether).

Getting back where I started. People expect too much, it isn't possible to delete 15-30 seconds each time there is a new version.

But if you like to look for excuses I think KresoF1 is in on one, I haven't seen the test R8 vs. RS4 side by side so I can't compare the speed in different corners.

Thanks for agreeing with me of this, for ages people have brought up the CSL every time an Audi or something else posts a good time on the ring. Sure the CSL was an amazing machine but to think that the same will apply to the new standard M3 would be very optimistic, the old model posted a time of 8:22 will the equivalent Audi which would have been the S4v8 posted in Avant form a time of 8:29. Based on the improvement the RS4 made one can expect the new M3 to achieve a time around 8:03~8:05 which will be amazing for what it is and the price it commands.

I would be surprised if a RS4 would match a R8 in corner speed given the fact that the R8 has a better weight balance and more surface area of grip and when you check out the differences in time around the Bedford circuit by EVO magazine you will see that this is indeed not possible. But then again KersoF1 disagrees with their findings anyway.

[Erik]

Regarding the CLS time I think the tires it used are not available anymore. Maybe by name but not by product.

That's what I've heard, not sure iof right or wrong and we don't need a(nother) big debate about it but it would be nice with a "yes/no."

[Leadfoot]

Regarding the CLS time I think the tires it used are not available anymore. Maybe by name but not by product.

That's what I've heard, not sure iof right or wrong and we don't need a(nother) big debate about it but it would be nice with a "yes/no."

If possible can you explain the importance of whether the tyres are still available or not.

I would love to know if anyone has equalled or even better the Sport Auto time achieve all those years ago. Surely with the latest tyre technology this should be now even easier than before.

Here is another thing that has always bugged me, when posting these times for the ring or another track, is the car checked to see if they are indeed bog standard or not. After that test carried out by EVO or was it Autocar on the Ferrari 599 I have become a little sceptical.

[Kram]

IVerified and it seems that had being removed, may be for trying an improvement, but in this link the new M3 is supposed to do the Ring in 8:12. Great improvement but nt enough to take of the

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=98379

[Leadfoot]

IVerified and it seems that had being removed, may be for trying an improvement, but in this link the new M3 is supposed to do the Ring in 8:12. Great improvement but nt enough to take of the

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=98379

I doubt that this is genuine, I reckon it's someone trying to get an argument started on the m5board in much the same way a some come on here and do the same. I will be greatly surprised if the M3 doesn't better the RS4's time if only be a few tenths.

I must admit when you consider that a Z4M Roadster posted an official time of 8:15, the time of 8:12 does sound terrible especially with the extra power, chassis stiffness and aerodynamic aids, no wonder these guys are miffed if true.

[KresoF1]

Hey Leadie,
Here is something that you will like...

AUTOMOVIL (Spanish magazine)
INTA circuit:
Audi R8----------------------1'11'47
Porsche 911 Turbo -----------1'12'08 (tested in feb 07)
Porsche 911 Carrera 4S------1'13'18
Dodge Viper SRT10 -----------1'13'19 (tested in feb 07)
Aston Martin V8--------------1'14'19
Jaguar XKR--------------------1'15'16 (tested in feb 07)

[Erik]

If possible can you explain the importance of whether the tyres are still available or not.

It is hard to repeat that time if you can't buy those tires today. They were quite good...

[Leadfoot]

It is hard to repeat that time if you can't buy those tires today. They were quite good...

So you are basically saying that the tyres that came on the M3CSL were actually better than the current equivalents, amazing if true.:bigeyes:

[KresoF1]

So you are basically saying that the tyres that came on the M3CSL were actually better than the current equivalents, amazing if true.:bigeyes:

I belive that Erik is saying to you that previous generation of Michelin Cups was better on dry track then current one. This is the fact. These Cups on M3CSL generate huge amount of grip(on right temperature!) on dry track but, they are almost useless on wet track. New generation is much more compromise since they are pretty good on wet track as well...

BTW, tires on R8 on Spanish test were Michelin Pilot Sport 2.

[Leadfoot]

I belive that Erik is saying to you that previous generation of Michelin Cups was better on dry track then current one. This is the fact. These Cups on M3CSL generate huge amount of grip(on right temperature!) on dry track but, they are almost useless on wet track. New generation is much more compromise since they are pretty good on wet track as well...

BTW, tires on R8 on Spanish test were Michelin Pilot Sport 2.

Well this explains the exclaimer that you had to sign when buying the car as was the case in the UK. Regardless of the tyres, it's still an amazing car.

[quattro Gmbh]

IVerified and it seems that had being removed, may be for trying an improvement, but in this link the new M3 is supposed to do the Ring in 8:12. Great improvement but nt enough to take of the

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=98379

"The sub 8 minute RS4 time was done on R compounds with Frank Stipler (race driver)....even Audi doesn't use this time officially."


is that true?

[Erik]

"The sub 8 minute RS4 time was done on R compounds with Frank Stipler (race driver)....even Audi doesn't use this time officially."
is that true?

I met Frank Stipler at the Ring and that's what he told me. However I don't think it means much as it is a factory driver and inofficial time, not compareable with others as we do not know any facts.