Hybrid Q7

[Benman]

Question: Is there much point to the Hybrid Q7? The new quattro quarterly qoutes it to being 13% more fuel effient than the regular 4.2L (and the funny thing, they act like that is some kind of amazing achievement!). Do the math and if the regular 4.2L gets 19mpg highway, then the Hybrid will get a whopping (being sarcastic) 21.47mpg!!! Whoopty doo! So the 2.47 additional miles I get each gallon will take what, like 15 YEARS to recoup the additional $5000.00 (estimated) cost of the Hybrid?

250,000 miles @19mpg= 13,157.895 gallons consumed.
250,000 miles @21.47mpg= 11,644.155 gallons consumed.

So the 1,513.74 gallons I saved over the 250,000 miles driven at @$3.00 a gallon would save me $4,541.22! Still short of the $5,000 dollar premium I payed for the Hybrid in the first place! And that's if the Hybrid only costs me $5K!

Wouldn't the deisel make much more sense? That is, if it even comes Stateside. There, they say it would get @24mpg, or a difference of 26%, double the added efficiency of the Hybrid. What's more, it would probably tow more to boot.

Curious as to if anyone else had given this any thought?

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

Yes, diesel is making mutch more sense and that is reflecting through diesel sales. In Europe more than 65 %(maybe even more) of new cars are diesel and i am sure that situation with Q7 is going to be even more "diesel powered".

I think hybryd is targeting US market becouse people there just cant start buying diesels, what ever kind of market ofensive is made for diesels they just don't buy them.

[eazy]

An hybrid-system is most effective in urban-areas. Out of the town, on the highway it's not better than a diesel.
In my mind, a hybrid is not as good as many people think.
In Europe, a hybrid-option will not have much chances to establish itself.
If people want an economical car, they buy a diesel.

Audi just develops a hybrid because the american market.
I don't know why americans are so keen on hybrids. Maybe someone can explain me that.

Greetz

eazy

[Benman]

Originally posted by eazy
Maybe someone can explain me that.

Greetz

eazy
Well eazy, I can't speak for every American, but I think it comes down to Americans seem to be convinced Hybrids are "cool". They "help" the environment and are much better than the "evil" regular engines in other cars. Fact is, most cars are ultra low emmision vehicles now, hybrid or not, but again, the average American doesn't seem to realize that. The commercials do a great job of convincing them that hybrids are so much better, and for the most part, it works. Toyota and Honda sell tons of hybrids here and pump large amounts of money in advertising.

As for why Americans don't seem to like diesel, that's an easier one. The diesel most of us are familiar with are the diesels of old and the ones in trucks. Very few of us have experience with modern high quality German diesels. The German diesels most of us know are the awefull crap ones in the old Mercedes! Dang, they stink and are loud as all get out! My first trip out to Germany in my rental Audi A6 diesel was a revelation to say the least! After a week in that, I had no idea why more aren't out here! Fantastic car. Every trip since, my rental has always been diesel. Nothing like what most Americans are used to!

So I think it comes down to the misconception that diesels are loud and stinky, hybrids are quiet and clean. Marketing will do that. Not to mention that diesel is more than Super Unleaded here!:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[Benman]

Keep in mind, I'm not really bagging on Hybrids as a whole, more wondering why Audi's Q7 is half arsed (as they say in Britain:D ).

Example:

Honda Civic NON Hybrid base model with auto transmission gets:

30 City
40 Highway

Honda Civic Hybrid gets:

49 City
51 Highway

That's a whopping (not being sarcastic) 63% and 27% increase over the non Hybrid model (versus the Q7s weak arse increase of 12%). Plus, just like the Q7, it is also faster than the non Hybrid version.

So really, my point is, if Honda can do such a great job and produce such an extreme increase in fuel economy, than why can't Audi who supposedly has been building Hybrids since 1989 (at least according to that story)?

Ben:addict:

** edit **

And the Accord Hybrid gets 45% (city) and 28% (highway) better than regular petrol car.

And PS, the ultimate idea would be a Audi Bio Deisel Hybrid! Now that I'd want!:heart:

[AndyBG]

Benman,

please tell me how often you can see diesel powered pasenger car on your streets (Touareg V10 TDI,...)

I am just courious, i never bean in US.

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
Benman,

please tell me how often you can see diesel powered pasenger car on your streets (Touareg V10 TDI,...)

I am just courious, i never bean in US.
Andy, this will give you a great idea of how many diesel cars are in the States. I did a search on autotrader.com for a VW Touareg V10 TDI. I searched for any year, any price and any distance from me (entire US). Guess how many were for sale? 12. Twelve!!! Only 12 Touareg Diesels in the entire US that are for sale right now! And BTW, none are new as they stopped making this vehicle available to US consumers last year!

So there you go. Kind of gives you an idea of how rare a sight diesels are in the US. Yes, occasionally I will see a Jetta or Golf TDI but it still isn't very common here. Diesel is just not popular here unless you have a big truck (think full size Chevy, Dodge or Ford). I'd estimate that of all new cars sold (not counting trucks), less than 5% are diesels! Can't explain it, that's just how it is.:bye:

Ben:addict:

**edit** just did a search for any Golf diesel for any year, any price, any distance, result: 192 in entire US!:(

[AndyBG]

!!!12!!!

In whole country!

I realy dont understand that, i just cant get it in to my head.

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
!!!12!!!

In whole country!

I realy dont understand that, i just cant get it in to my head.
I can understand that from an European perspective. But also think about the 192 TDI Golfs for sale from any State, price or year (range 1981-2006)!

If you do a search for "regular" petrol Golf, it pulls up like 1750! Almost 10 times as many. And that is my point of saying less than 5% of all cars sold here are diesel. If only 10% of Golfs and Jetts here are diesel (and they're practically the only diesels offered here), by the time you add in the Fords, Chevys, Dodges, Hondas, Toyotas (ALL petrol), I'd say less than 5% is optimistic at best. Probably less than 3% of all cars sold here are diesel!

Yeah, 12 used V10 Touaregs is amazing though. I would like to go see one just to drive it. I mean, it's more rare here than an Lamborghini Murcielago!!! (Just did a Nationwide search, 51 came up!!!) Yep, TDI's are a rare breed here.

Phffff, Americans...:hihi: :thumb:

Ben:addict:

[eazy]

@benman
I did the same search as you in Germany.
Result: 476 Touareg V10 want to be bought ;)

Greetz

eazy

[Yak]

Benman, yes you're comparing to petrol cars in Civics. However, for example Toyota Prius isn't even close to being the most economical car even in the city, since diesels surpass it.

That's the key, should you compare diesel and those hybrid-cars, there's a big chance that diesel is actually more economical, thus making the point with hybrids kinda.. pointless? ;)

[Benman]

Originally posted by Yak
Benman, yes you're comparing to petrol cars in Civics. However, for example Toyota Prius isn't even close to being the most economical car even in the city, since diesels surpass it.

That's the key, should you compare diesel and those hybrid-cars, there's a big chance that diesel is actually more economical, thus making the point with hybrids kinda.. pointless? ;)
That's kinda my point about the Q7 Hybrid. The deisel Q7 will out perform it in fuel economy! So why make the hybrid at all?!? Just for the US market? That's lame (no offense to cripples).

And yeah, I was comparing the Civic Hybrid to the petrol Civic, cause here in the States, Civic diesels are hard to come by.:hihi: But remember, the petrol Q7 only gets 13% less fuel economy than the Q7 Hybrid! Compare that to the figures I posted for the petrol Civic versus the Civic Hybrid (also Accord petrol vs hybrid)and my point is that the effort for the Q7 Hybrid seems half arsed at best.

eazy, So there's 476 V10 Touaregs in Germany for sale? Hmm... just a few more than here.:p :thumb:

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

So, at the end,

is diesel Q7 coming on US market or not?

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
So, at the end,

is diesel Q7 coming on US market or not?
I'm not sure. Even if it does, it won't be until at least a year or more after the initial launch of the Q7! By then, the Mrs. will have been :incar: hers for the better part of a year.

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

And would be your choice...?

4.2, 3.6 or that

"SUPER MODERN HYBRYD"?

:)

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
And what would be your choice...?

4.2, 3.6 or that

"SUPER MODERN HYBRID"?

:)

:D 4.2L "Premium" pkg.:thumb:

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

Fine one, no discusion there.

:)

Enjoy!

[BBGT2]

In the good old USA everyone here associates a diesel anything with a semi truck and OMG where am I going to find diesel at this time of the night.
Also alot of people still remember the GM version of a 5.7L V8 diesel and how not great they were, they were pieces of crap.
Given the Germans have always had good diesel engine they could not get them popular over here even with the better fuel economy they offer.
Also remember that here in the states we will buy gas even when it hits $10 a gallon (hopefully not while I am alive) and we will bitch and complain but we still have to go to work, play etc. Most of the premium we pay on the price of a gallon is for Uncle Sam and his cohorts so that they can live in a style in whihc they are accustomed to as I am sure is the same everywhere else.
I have had diesel cars in the past and yes they were all German brands, only for us those choices were either a Benz or a VW, I had both. Maintenance is very inexpensive (was anyways) and they go and go and go it seems like forever.
As far as I concerned they can take their hybrids and send them all to Hawaii I wont buy one or drive one.
I always laugh at the guy at the light next to me with his Toyota Prius and always wanna ask "you paid $35k for that, you need help, serious help".
I dont know I may be too backward thinking but I figure I am gonna drive what I want and leave the tree huggers to their ideas and beliefs they are "helping" the environment.

Just my .02 bar !

Bajo:addict:

All right all you eco freaks I got my flame suit on you cant touch me :D

[AndyBG]

One thing that get people to buy hybryd cars are low taxes, in some european countries, i THINK (correct me if i am wrong) that in France you have to pay just 10% or something of what you would pay with a "ordinary" car.
Many people just cant (wount) pass that kind of benefit.

[BBGT2]

Oh yeah one more interesting fact is that diesel here in the states is more money at the pump.
The other night I filled up my bro's 2005 Dodge Mega Cab with a Cummins diesel and it was a whopping $89 dollars:MTM:
I'll save you the calculation==========
Thats $2.96 per gallon for diesel.

And that is just plain highway robbery legalized!


Bajo

[AndyBG]

Then, it seems that diesels will still be rare sitening on US roads.

[Benman]

Originally posted by Bajors6

I dont know I may be too backward thinking but I figure I am gonna drive what I want and leave the tree huggers to their ideas and beliefs they are "helping" the environment.

Just my .02 bar !

Bajo:addict:

All right all you eco freaks I got my flame suit on you cant touch me :D

:applause: :applause:

Haha Bajo!:thumb:

Yeah, spending all that money for a car that needs 15 years to recoup the additional costs, and is slooooooow. Now the Accord V6 Hybrid, that ain't too shabby. ;)

As for the Q7, I don't think I'll wait for the deisel. Afterall, it might end up being two plus years before it makes its way Stateside. The regular 4.2L should do me fine.

One negative. Is it true that it will only have a 18.85 gallon tank? They're sighting a 18-19mpg highway figure. If so, the longest road trip I can take without refueling is 358 miles? That's a bit of a bummer considering I've done 470 mile road trips in the :addict: !!!:heart:

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

Ben,
one theoretical question, if Audi by some wonder offer diesel powered Q7 from day one in US, lets presume that its,

4.2 TDI V8 (326 hp, 650 nm).

Would you consider it as option or "FSI power" will remain your choice.

After everything i read here, looks like one more problem with that car would be selling it after some time.

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
Ben,
one theoretical question...

Andy,

I would love to have the TDI! The only thing that would stop me from getting the TDI over the FSI would be the price premium. Would it be $3K more? $5K more? $9K more? If it was only a few "quid" extra, then the TDI all the way would be my choice (although, probably not the Mrs.:D ).

A resale point wouldn't even factor in as I plan on keeping it for a long time. And as far as that, here is yet one more "American Irony": Here, deisels sell horribly, yet, if it's in a truck (SUVs included), then deisels are very desireable and will comand a premium on the used truck market. Doesn't make the most sense. I know. We folk are a strange bunch!:trash:

But yes, again, to answer your question, definately, it would be an option. But it is very safe to say, that Audi will not be bringing the TDI Stateside at the Q7's launch. Best case senario, probably at least a year later. By that time... to late.:cry:

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

That's life, you can't change that
:)

Maybe the Rent-a-car on your next time in Europe will be Q7 TDI.

[eazy]

Q7 in Depth by fourtitude:
http://www.fourtitude.com/news/publish/Audi_News/article_1953.shtml

There are some new features on the Q7 that are really cool.
For example the open sky system.

[AndyBG]

Realy detailed review, must look for Ben and Bajo.

Bajo,

samo da te informisem da je u Beogradu +2 stepena, i suncano je, mislim da je najhladniji deo zime prosao. Pretpostavljam da se za Cikago to ne moze reci.

Pozdrav!

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
Realy detailed review, must look for Ben and Bajo.

Yep, checking it out right now.:thumb:

Thanks eazy.:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[Benman]

Wow, that was a big write up with a lot of reading! Great story, thanks for the link!:thumb:

Couple of questions: 1st, am I correct in assuming this is a world release article and that the 3.0 TDI will be available everywhere but here in the States?:(

2nd, It mentions that the fuel tank (at least on the deisel) is 26 gallons! Not the 18.85 previously mentioned elsewhere on the fourtitude forum. Is this only for the TDI engined Q7s? Wouldn't make sense to design a bigger tank just for the TDI Q7s and a whole different one for the petrol. Or would it?

3rd, it mentions the 4.2 petrol gets a combined 13.6l/100km. Does this @ equal 17.2 miles per gallon US? If so, that ain't too shabby. Especially if it scores the 26 gallon tank! 500 mile freeway trips should be no problem!:thumb: It puts the deisel combined figure at 10.5l/100km (is that @ 22.3?). So again, kinda a bummer we don't get the deisel here as that is a 23% increase over the petrol engine.:(

All well... thanks again eazy, great read!:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[roadrunner]

Ben,

About fuel tank capacity - according to the official german data sheets, both the 3.0 TDI and the 4.2 petrol have 100L=26 gallon fuel tanks.

Never say never, but I doubt, that you will get the 3.0 TDI in the states in near future. So the U.S. choice for the time being will be the 3.6 V6 + 4.2 V8 petrol engines.

The 4.2 TDI is rummored for the Q7, but you probably wan't see it stateside as well. :doh:

We will have to observe, how things develop diesel wise in the states. In Europe the engine mix will be heavily in favour of the diesel engine(s).


Greets
Seb.

[AndyBG]

Ben,

1. That is probably international info, so the TDI story is for "lucky" europeans :) , but.. maybe, ho nows...


2. Both diesel and petrol version have the same, 100 liter (26,3 gallons) tank - SOURCE: audi.de


3. Fuel comsuption:

3.0 TDI,

Urban: 14,6 l / 100 km
Open road: 8,3 l / 100 km
Combined: 10,5 l / 100 km

4.2,

Urban: 19,5 l / 100 km
Open road: 10,2 l / 100 km
Combined: 13,6 l / 100 km

1 GALLON = 3,8 LITERS, so, do your math!

I hope this is going to be useful.

ANDY

[Benman]

Originally posted by roadrunner
Ben,

About fuel tank capacity - according to the official german data sheets, both the 3.0 TDI and the 4.2 petrol have 100L=26 gallon fuel tanks.

Never say never, but I doubt, that you will get the 3.0 TDI in the states in near future.
Awesome! That is what I was hoping for!:dance:

Yeah, I doubt it too!:vgrumpy:


Originally posted by AndyBG
Fuel comsuption:

3.0 TDI,

Urban: 14,6 l / 100 km
Open road: 8,3 l / 100 km
Combined: 10,5 l / 100 km

4.2,

Urban: 19,5 l / 100 km
Open road: 10,2 l / 100 km
Combined: 13,6 l / 100 km

1 GALLON = 3,8 LITERS, so, do your math!

I hope this is going to be useful.

Andy, actually, it's 3.785 liters to one gallon.;) :D

Seriously, if that's the case, then the 4.2L Q7 will get:

City: 12mpg
Highway: 23mpg!!!
Combined: 17.2

That is WAY better than I thought! And is actually about on par with a 4.2L A6!!! Despite it being far heavier!!!

In fact, those figures are on par with the much smaller Acura MDX!!! Great news! If true, I can take a 600 mile road trip!!! :bow:

Ben:addict:

[eazy]

Why Americans should fall in love with the diesel:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=108977

[mr]

well ... I also don't really understand being so few diesel - cars over there in the US.
sure ... It'll be a historical thing and a prejudices coming from earlier times and bad engines ... but ... when i look at my car -> ok, ... i do just have a VW - Golf MK IV with 90 TDI - hp - but when i think that i drive at about 750 - 900 km with just one full fuel tank (at about 42 liters) -> which means 5 - 5,6 l/100 km or 48 - 55 mpg.
well ... of course ... it has just got 90 hp (and is 5 years old)... but ... when you look at the new Audi and VW - TDI - machines -> the 1,9l and 2l machines do all get fuel consumption values of that kind.
So i don't really get the point for hybrid cars - in europe.
they're just expensive.

just my 2cnt

rgds
mr

[Benman]

Originally posted by mr

So i don't really get the point for hybrid cars - in europe.
they're just expensive.

just my 2cnt

rgds
mr

mr,

Exactly, my point of this entire thread (although I've taken it far from it's intended path...:p ). I also don't see the need for hybrid/petrol cars, especially the Q7. I say, give me the Q7 in diesel format!

From the article linked by eazy: "It is surely time to put away the prejudices of the 1970s and embrace the modern diesel engine. "

Exactly! The rentals I drove in Europe were nothing like I had expected them to be. Much, much better.

My question, Does anyone know if Audi is investing in a Hybrid/Bio Diesel vehicle? Now that, IMHO, would actually be worth making! Talk about fuel economy!!!:bow:

Ben:addict:

[mr]

hybrid diesl (maybe) makes sense -> sure ... you have loads of torque when starting -> makes sense when driving a lot in cities.
but ... the point that makes me thinking -> you have to invest loads of money and finally you do have a lot more high - tech things in your car which effect the car to be more heavy and more expensive -> does that make sense?????

well ... i don't know.

just my 2cnt


rgds
mr

[eazy]

Did you know that audi already built an diesel-hybrid?

That was 1997, it's called the Audi duo.
But it was to expensive, about 30k Euros.
Not even 100 pieces were built.

As i know a diesel-hybrid is not as effective as an petrol-hybrid, because both diesel an electric motor are best in partial load. The petrol-engine is better at full throttle, so it can be better combined together.

greetings

eazy

[Benman]

Originally posted by mr
but ... the point that makes me thinking -> you have to invest loads of money...and the car will be more heavy and more expensive -> does that make sense?????
Makes sense, but the technology is already there. Audis aren't exactly light weight anyways. :D


Originally posted by eazy
Did you know that audi already built an diesel-hybrid?

As i know a diesel-hybrid is not as effective as an petrol-hybrid...
greetings

eazy
I only knew that Audi made a Hybrid in the past, didn't know it was a hybrid/diesel.

Also didn't realize that it wasn't as effective as the petrol/hybrid. Learn something knew everyday.:thumb:

Ben:addict:

[Yak]

As i know a diesel-hybrid is not as effective as an petrol-hybrid, because both diesel an electric motor are best in partial load. The petrol-engine is better at full throttle, so it can be better combined together.

Actually, as far as I know, diesel is still more effective at full throttle than petrol, but the difference is smaller than on partial load.

If petrol engine would be better than diesel engine on full throttle, then the difference in city driving should be small (since there's lots of acceleration), however this is not the case, it's actually higher than on country roads, since petrol engines have come a long way to improve that (for example with FSI, which won't work under full throttle).

I don't know about the technical challenges of quickly starting a diesel engine when it's needed, that might be the problem with the hybrid. And also the fact, who would buy it? Hybrids aren't that popular in Europe, and diesels aren't in US.

[TaTaPiRaTa]

The Hybrid advantage is that you got extra 200NM when accelerating - imagine in your 4.2L over 400NM petrol car being capable of limitied time accelerator of 200NM extra and over 50HP more, thats very nice in overtaking .... and at red lights ;)

So I would say Hybrid is like to have 4.2L with kind of Nitro, but improoving fuel economy and more environmentaly firendly.

As for fuel economy keep in mind that "normally driving with heavy foot" you are getting 20-30% more fuel consumption that lab tested at Audi indications, this means that diesel's much lower consumption it stays even more lower when you compare real life data to petrol one.

As for over 3L petrol compared to 4.2L one, if you look at Cayenne V6 to V8 NA comparison in fuel economy it is not much different as the smaller unit has to be pushed more to achieve reasonable performance, thus fuel consumption is not much smaller than the bigger unit.
I assume the same will be with Q7 V6 & V8 petrol units.

I would go for 3L diesel anyway, you can go to ABT and have it 280HP/580NM chipped easily :D

:rs6kiss: :addict: :rs6kiss:

[Payne]

Originally posted by TaTaPiRaTa
The Hybrid advantage is that you got extra 200NM when accelerating - imagine in your 4.2L over 400NM petrol car being capable of limitied time accelerator of 200NM extra and over 50HP more, thats very nice in overtaking .... and at red lights ;)

So I would say Hybrid is like to have 4.2L with kind of Nitro, but improoving fuel economy and more environmentaly firendly.



You have to remember that the hybrid Q7 is going to be much heavier(140kg). Anyway it is going to make 0-60mph 0.6s(6.8) quicker than normal 4.2l. But as we can read in this topic many times, It simply will not be reason good enough to get the hybrid Q7.

Why would people really get a hybrid?
1. It is more economic-yeah, right the 13% will really be reason good enough to pay MUCH MORE $ to get one.:p
2. It doesn't make that much mess into air. True BUT when you think about it. Would you really pay for ex. $10k more to protect environment when the new petrol/diesel engines are almost like air fresheners?:)))
3. The technology is very new, so there is very big possibility you'd experience difficulties with it.(Like when i-drive came to BMW's)


The diesel discusion.
I think in europe people like diesel engines much more because:
1. Diesel was always much cheaper than petrol(it is almost same price these days, but it is STILL cheaper
2.Diesel engines are more economic.
3.In these days you can easilly compare petrol/diesel engines in performance.
4. You guys in states had never really cared about petrol price, because it was/is always very cheap(correct me if Im wrong). Which is not in europe-That is the main reason why diesel is so popular in europe.
5. You guys in states had always made HUGE petrol engines so why change for some tiny little diesel engine:PP

It has always been only case of petrol/diesel prices and what was more reasonable to the car owners.

Just my opinion.

[eazy]

Here is one of the first q7-tests.
The Q7 4.2 is compared to the Volvo XC90 V8 and the Cadillac Escalade.

The test is in german.

It's said that the Q7 isn't very fast but has a good handling.

http://rapidshare.de/files/12616940/Audi_Q7_vs_Volvo_XC90_vs_Cadillac_Escalade.wmv.htm l

[AndyBG]

It has enough power for its own weight.

:)

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
It has enough power for its own weight.

:)
:thumb:

Good enough for me!;) :D

eazy,

What else did the article say since my German skills are like...puke: (I'm learning though...).

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

I just watched a car show called: '' Motorvision'' on german TV DSF, and they troughout entyre show drived Q7 in USA, and most interesting thing was that the model was,

!!!3.0 TDI!!!

so, i am litle bit confused, i noticed that car is EURO version with german plates, but why would they take and drive a diesel in America if there is no chance for that car to ever again get there?

Any opinions?

[Payne]

Originally posted by AndyBG
I just watched a car show called: '' Motorvision'' on german TV DSF, and they troughout entyre show drived Q7 in USA, and most interesting thing was that the model was,

!!!3.0 TDI!!!

so, i am litle bit confused, i noticed that car is EURO version with german plates, but why would they take and drive a diesel in America if there is no chance for that car to ever again get there?

Any opinions?

Interesting!
Maybe Audi decided to promote diesel engines in the USA. They maybe think that people in states will want more economic rides one day. And I have no doubt that the 3.0Tdi engine in Q7 IS good enough to show you americans that even diesel can go pretty fast:hihi:

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG

so, i am litle bit confused... Well then welcome to American Politics!:D

Payne, the 3.0TDI is definately good enough for us blokes on this side of the pond. The problem is "perception". I was told by a very wise man that, "Reality is what we perceive it to be".

The reality of American consumers is that Hybrids (wow, actually getting back on topic!:D ) are directly from Jehovah God. They will solve all of Earthly mankinds troubles and worries. The will cure global warming, stop food shortages and feed all the hungry children of this world. Don't believe me? Just watch a couple of US commercials for hybrids, and you'll see I'm hardly exaggerating. Most US consumers lap this up, because they believe whatever the TV tells them. Hybrids are good, deisels are bad. They smell, they pollute (recent Audi Bio Deisels actually put out less carbons and pollutants than petrol, but try telling Americans that!), and are just plain unwanted here.

Me, I believe about 4% of what is said on TV. And only believe 2% of what comes out of the Presidents mouth.:D

Right now, hybrids and "alternate fuels" are a big push here. In fact, President Bush recently gave a speech for a multi BILLION dollar funding into Ethanol research (corn based). Gee, let me guess, his family owns millions of acres of worthless grade F corn fields, but gee wiz, start forcing US car manufactures to make Ethanol running cars and that should raise the value of his family's land (of course, they never stop to think what that will do to the price of corn!!!).:rolleyes:

Bottom line, the 3.0TDI will not come over Stateside until at least a year or more after the Q7 is launched here. By then, there will be little interest in it, and that is all part of the plan.:cry:

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

Hey man, is there anybody ho loves that ''humble'' president?

It seems he has to interfear in any aspect of your lifes, even that you cant enjoy in pleasures of,

/T/ turbo

/D/ direct

/I/ injection

that sucks!

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
Hey man, is there anybody ho loves that ''humble'' president?

It seems he has to interfear in any aspect of your lifes, even that you cant enjoy in pleasures of,

/T/ turbo

/D/ direct

/I/ injection

that sucks!
Could be worse... the Democrats could be in office!:hahahehe: :applause:

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

What you saying, eitherway you get a BULLS**T?

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
What you saying, eitherway you get a BULLS**T?
Exactly.:thumb: :D

Could be still worse. We could be paying $6.00 a gallon and have 17.75% VAT taxes to pay! :bigeyes: So always look on the bright side.:0:

Ben:addict:

[Payne]

Well everything has it's possitive/negative sides..

You're not getting 3.0tdi, we have to pay $3.5k for damn paint.

I'm really looking forward to see price of the hybrid Q7. Also I doubt it is going to be faster than 4.2l Q7 because it is going to gain 140kg/260lb.(1kg-0.54lb?) and it is going to affect handling that is (they say) very good in normal Q7..edit: and the interior won't be that spacy.

We just have to wait and we'll see:)

[Benman]

Originally posted by Payne


We just have to wait and we'll see:)
I think the Q7 Hybrid will be quicker than standard Q7 4.2L. Even if it gains 300lbs (hopefully not) it will still have a better power to weight ratio

4.2L (@5200lbs)
350HP: 14.857lbs per hp
325lb/ft: 16.0 lbs per lb/ft

Hybrid (@5500lbs)
410HP(at least): 13.416lbs per hp
550lb/ft(""): 10 lbs per lb/ft

In a straight line, should be slightly quicker. As for handling...:nono: :hihi:

Ben:addict:

[Payne]

Ben,

According to a car mag.(one of'em that gives you some info not like the others where the redactors always tells you what idiotic smile they had while doing a power slide in a m3csl-I till like these mags. more:)))

Q7

power 257kw/344.6bhp
weight 2240kg/4939.2lb


hybrid Q7

power 289kw/387.5bhp
weight 2410kg/5314.0lb!

so the weight difference is not 140kg/308.7lb(I didn't mention that this is weight of Nimh accumulators only) but 170kg/374lb..Sorry to dissapoint you but thats much more then you wanted it to be...

edit: still the hybrid beats normal in power/weight ratio Q7: 14.3lb/hp Hybrid: 13.7lb/hp:D

The question is if this is reason good enough to spend what? another $10k?...If the consumption wasn't only -13% but atleast 30% then it would be worth a closer look. As it's said in this topic already:)

Still if it is going to solve global warming and feed children in africa..well then I'd get one:))...I can see those adverts screaming at you- Save world by getting more powerfull car:D

[Benman]

Originally posted by Payne

Q7

power 257kw/344.6bhp
weight 2240kg/4939.2lb


hybrid Q7

power 289kw/387.5bhp
weight 2410kg/5314.0lb!

Sorry to dissapoint you but thats much more then you wanted it to be...

edit: still the hybrid beats normal in power/weight ratio Q7: 14.3lb/hp Hybrid: 13.7lb/hp:D

The question is if this is reason good enough to spend what? another $10k?...If the consumption wasn't only -13% but atleast 30% then it would be worth a closer look. As it's said in this topic already:)

Still if it is going to solve global warming and feed children in africa..well then I'd get one:))...I can see those adverts screaming at you- Save world by getting more powerfull car:D
Wow, needless to say, those figures dissapoint. So another 375lbs? That's a bummer. And only 37.5 more HP? Again, bummer. What it doesn't say is the torque rating. I'd hope that at least that is better than the other figures.

For comparison, the Lexus RX Hybrid (which has already saved the lived of 40,000 hungry children) weights 300 lbs more than standard, has 20% more hp (and lots more torque) and is a full .5 second zero to sixty, all the while getting a fair share more than 13% better fuel economy (like you mentioned, already been said in this thread). Also, with the RX, it costs $10K more! Not the $5K premium I was thinking!

So no, definately not worth buying. Not even close. Sad...

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

Yes, but, as i said earlyer, lower taxes and other comodytis are imposed in many countryes in order to stimulate people to buy and drive those ''FROM HAVEN SENT'' hybrids.

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
Yes, but, as i said earlyer, lower taxes and other comodytis are imposed in many countryes in order to stimulate people to buy and drive those ''FROM HAVEN SENT'' hybrids.
Correct Andy,

But remember, those incentives are still short of the prize. In CA, tax rebates are @$3000.00. So subtract that from the $10K premium and I still have $7K to try and "save" in fuel costs, therefor I'm still looking at years before I see a return on my investment.

BTW, what time do you guys go to bed, it's getting late out there.:D

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

2:40 AM, but i am still holding in...

:D :D :D

[eazy]

Originally posted by Benman
Exactly.:thumb: :D

Could be still worse. We could be paying $6.00 a gallon and have 17.75% VAT taxes to pay! :bigeyes: So always look on the bright side.:0:

Ben:addict: Come to Germany and you nearly have it.
One gallon of normal petrol costs about $5.50 at the moment.
Diesel is about $5.00 per gallon.
And taxes? At the moment 16%, in future maybe 19%.
Nice expectations :w:

[Payne]

What it doesn't say is the torque rating.

The hybrid has another 200Nm which is not bad:)




BTW, what time do you guys go to bed, it's getting late out there.

Actually I went earlier last night...HAD to do couple laps around the ring in an Rs6:hihi: :hihi: GT4 rulezzz:)))




is a full .5 second zero to sixty

Hybrid Q7 is expecting to be 0.6s better in 0-60mph..that is 6.8s:) Which is not bad for car that weights nearly 5500lb.:)

[eazy]

Shell V-Power (with 100 octane) costs even $6.22 per gallon. That are prices :trash:

[Benman]

Originally posted by eazy
Come to Germany and you nearly have it.
One gallon of normal petrol costs about $5.50 at the moment.
Diesel is about $5.00 per gallon.
And taxes? At the moment 16%, in future maybe 19%.
Nice expectations :w:
In UK, gas is $6.00!!!

19%.... no bueno!



Originally posted by Payne



Actually I went earlier last night...HAD to do couple laps around the ring in an Rs6 GT4 rulezzz))




quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
is a full .5 second zero to sixty
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Hybrid Q7 is expecting to be 0.6s better in 0-60mph..that is 6.8s Which is not bad for car that weights nearly 5500lb.

You got that straight! GT4 :bow: (played some myself last night;) )

6.8, not too shabby.

Ben:addict:

[eazy]

Originally posted by Benman
:thumb:

Good enough for me!;) :D

eazy,

What else did the article say since my German skills are like...puke: (I'm learning though...).

Ben:addict:
So, last but not least a roundup about the vid:

The Q7 must fight hard against his 2,2 tons of weight, but the chassis and steering set the benchmark in that class. The third seat-row is only for kids big enough. From 0 to 62 in 9.5 seconds is not very fast. They said that despite of the air suspension you hear every road hole. And the fuel consumption is also not very good.
Conclusion: Good steering, good brakes, bad consumption and (sadly) bad engine :( Also negative is the price, good equipped it costs about €80.000.

The XC90 is faster than the Q7 but the handling is too american.
Conclusion: Good engine, good price, less room and bad chassis.

The Escalade is very comfortable (US-cruiser-feeling ;)) and much more equipment for the price.
Conclusion: Much room but bad brakes, bad handling and as the Q7 too much fuel consumption.

greetings

eazy

[Benman]

Originally posted by eazy
So, last but not least a roundup about the vid:...

greetings

eazy

eazy,

Thanks for the translate. Ok, 0-62 in 9.5 seconds? That seems way off. Maybe fully loaded or something. But with single driver, mags are betting sub 8 second 0-60 (read 7.9). 9.5 must have been with 7 fat Americans on board!:hihi:

Rear seats only for kids? Works fine for me, afterall, who has 7 adults in the car at once. Not I. Usually, its 3 or 4 adults and the rest kids.

Chassis and steering set the benchmark? Wow, this is not something I'm use to hearing about Audis! Usually, its the other way around! So if they said that, then the Q7 must be very nice in those regards!:thumb: (Sounds like they still complained about road noise though...).

As for price, we have it good in this country. A fully loaded Q7 (without laser cruise control) is running @ $65K US (at today's rate, that's 54.5K Euro!:thumb: ).

Fuel consumption: That's a wierd one. I thought that is what they were trying to get across with the figures they posted but you would think that with FSI the Q7 would be doing better. Afterall, the Euro ratings are the equivalent of 13mpg city (bad) and 23mpg freeway (great). Actually, that makes sense. quattro cars suck hard in the city when it comes to fuel economy (my :addict: averages @13 in city) but do great on the freeway (I'm getting 20+mpg in the :addict: ). So maybe the test was done mostly city/slow speeds where the quattro Q7 is at it's worst.:vhmmm:

Once again, thanks for the translate, that came in handy.

One more thing eazy (since you read and speak German (:thumb: ), on the configurator, does it show when/ if laser cruise control is available yet? I want to get that option for the Mrs. but it's not showing when it will be available for US.

Thanks:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[eazy]

Originally posted by Benman
One more thing eazy (since you read and speak German (:thumb: ), on the configurator, does it show when/ if laser cruise control is available yet? I want to get that option for the Mrs. but it's not showing when it will be available for US.
I've already looked as you asked it on the other thread, but i haven't found anything about it at the configurator.
But on the german audi-site it is available under electronic features of the q7 (http://www.audi.de/audi/de/de2/neuwagen/q7/elektronik.html)
Maybe the adaptive cruise control comes a bit later. :vhmmm:

greetings

eazy

[Benman]

Originally posted by eazy

Maybe the adaptive cruise control comes a bit later. :vhmmm:

greetings

eazy
Thanks eazy, I guess I'll just have to be patient.

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

Ben, eazy...

Is there any talking about some S-line package for Q7, and wehn?

I have filling that Benman would not miss something like that on his ''family transporter''. :D

And is there any info on ''sporty'' version of Q7 (S, RS...?)

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
Ben, eazy...

Is there any talking about some S-line package for Q7, and when?

I have a feeling that Benman would not miss something like that on his ''family transporter''. :D

And is there any info on ''sporty'' version of Q7 (S, RS...?)
Andy,

There's plenty of talk about the S Line pkg for the Q7, in fact, the ones in the So Cal Audi club that know I'll be getting a Q7 for the Mrs. want me to hold out for the S Line. In Germany, I'm sure it will be available sooner, but here in the States, it looks like I'll have to wait till year's end or later! Besides that, If I choose the S Line, I'd have to forego the Air Suspension (if it's like the A6, you must choose one or the other and can not have both). I'd rather have the Air Suspension's comfy ride as I already have a "sporty" :addict: :heart: ;) .

The only real benefit (for me) of the S Line is the body colored lower cladding (as the interior metal trim is not something I want, I want Tamo:asian: ). But even that benefit is not a big one as I can always paint the lower cladding to match if I so desire.

Hopefully for those that want it, the S Line should be available in Europe by year's end at the latest. Stateside, not so sure. (And yeah, your feeling that I won't miss it is correct, although it looks excellent! :heart: ).

And for the QS7/ RS, I haven't heard anything, but since BMW has it's 4.8 X5, and AMG has it's ML55, I say it's only a matter of time before Audi comes out with at least a S version of the Q7. Maybe two years time...

Any thoughts?
:cheers:

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

While ago i bumpt on the some article about that theme, they were saying that sport version of Q7 (they didn't say anything about a name) is going to have same engine unit as new RS6, that is V10 550 hp, acording to them.

So...

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
While ago i bumpt on the some article about that theme, they were saying that sport version of Q7 (they didn't say anything about a name) is going to have same engine unit as new RS6, that is V10 550 hp, acording to them.

So...
If that ends up being the case, I'm sure that will make some future Audi SUV owners very happy.

Me, I'll hold for the R8 or next RS 6 (as if I had that kind of $$$).

Ben:addict:

[Payne]

Ben,
I see no reason why the adaptive cruise control should not be available from the beginning in the Us.

Just checked it out and here it is available from day one..

[Benman]

Originally posted by Payne

Just checked it out and here it is available from day one..
Thanks for that update Payne. Still not showing anything here, but if it is already available there, then a great chance for it to show up soon after vehicle launch.

If not, I don't mind waiting until it does become available. The cruise control and the Tamo with Ebony interior will be my two hold ups, but I feel will be well worth the wait as the Mrs. is planning on having this vehicle for 5-10+ years.

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

Originally posted by Benman
Mrs. is planning on having this vehicle for 5-10+ years.

Ben:addict:

That is what i call,

''long term comitment'',

you realy love your cars!

:D ;) :D

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
That is what i call,

''long term comitment'',

you realy love your cars!

:D ;) :D
I like to keep all my cars, but...

First car totaled...
Second car, forced to sell (needed $$$)...
Third car (Van) stolen...
Fourth car (motorcycle) stolen...
By the fifth car, I started buying vehicles I didn't like too much so I wouldn't get attached.

But...

The RS 6 is just such a keeper, plus if I sold it, I'd just end up like Bajo and have to buy another one :trash: so just keep it and save the hassle.:D

Wife is same way, once she likes something, she wants it forever (glad she feels the same way about me:p ), in fact her last car (the used E320) was something she was planning on keeping for a very long time until I forced her to get rid of it so I could afford my :addict: :thumb: (which of course she then completely fell in love with!).

The Q7 is my way of making it up to her.

Ben:addict:

[Benman]

Was going to make a "New Topic" post, but this belongs in this thread so...

Talking to a friend who is planning on getting the upcoming LS Hybrid it was brought up that I wasn't really all that interested in the Hybrid Scene since it doesn't really make economic sense and that was the main reason I didn't think it would be worth getting the Q7 Hybrid. Afterall, it would take years to recoup the lost additional cost of the hybrid with fuel savings.

But then he made a very interesting point. Reality is how we perceive it. For me, it seemed stupid to pay the higher price for the hybrid, but for him, it was a business decision. I asked him how so? "Well, I like Lexus, so I'd rather give them the fuel savings than the Oil Companies (who he doesn't like). Yes, in the end I'm paying the same $5K either way, but by buying the hybrid, I give that $$$ to the car company I like rather than to the government and oil companies".

His way of sticking it to the man. Interesting perspective.:thumb:

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

Yes, but donating money to Lexsus, WHY???

There are so many nice car makers and he gives his hardly made money to them, that is crazy!

:trash:

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
Yes, but donating money to Lexsus, WHY???

:trash:

He's hardly "donating" his money.

This is his view: he puts about 200K on his cars (yes, drives a lot). Right now, premium fuel sits @ $3.05 a gallon. His Lexus currently gets @ 22mpg (mostly all freeway business trips). So... @ $3.05 (and I'm thinking fuel is going to go up even higher) and 200K miles consuming 22mpg he looking at $27,727.00 in fuel costs!:bigeyes: Now... Lexus is big on shouting to the world that they'll "save" you 20% (unlike the 13% Audi's savings...), so... 200K @ 26.4mpg @ $3.05 is $23,106.00 in fuel costs, a savings of $4621.00. Takes a long time to see this "savings", but eventually, its there.

Now, $4,500- $5,000 is the price of the Hybrid in the first place, so again, he knows he is not "saving" any money, but in the end, he'd rather give the $5K to Lexus (which he likes) than to the oil companies and government. It's kinda like if you had to pay to send your kid to public school. If parents did (which they do any way through taxes) , then most would pay to send their kids to private school. Again, not saving $$$, just a difference of priorities. Hope that makes a little sense.

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

Your friend have a point wehn you are making, should i say, long term plans, but in some shorter period of time that is pure donation, nothing else.

BTW,

Q7 is starting to roll on streets more and more, and how time is passing i am changing my opinion on it. I was litle afraid about its ''real life'' look, but its OK, even more than i expected.

Maybe a litle to long for my taste, but compensation for that is enormusly big enterier.

Anyway, good car.

:0:

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
Your friend have a point when you are making, should i say, long term plans, but in some shorter period of time that is pure donation, nothing else.

BTW,

Q7 is starting to roll on streets more and more...
:0:


Yeah, short term is plain stupid, so agree with you there. Hybrids
only make sense for those who drive the piss out of their cars.

Yep, seeing some at dealers (but not on streets). Soon, soon.

Got a "Streets of Tomorrow" email so will go drive one early next month!

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

Originally posted by Benman
...will go drive one early next month!

Test drive, but wehn can we officialy call you ''Q7 owner"?

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
Test drive, but when can we officialy call you ''Q7 owner"?

Never... but my wife will own one in the next few months.:trash: :D

Just waiting till months end to find out about the Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC). Still have'nt heard jack squat about when it will be available!:( Hoping by the end of this month to know something.

As of right now, Mrs. has been very patient, but she really wants to take delivery of her Q7 before the year is up!:p So.... if its not available until next year, then I'll get her a Q7 in the next few months (order was put in three months ago, but with the understanding that we wanted to wait on the ACC).

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

Hoppefuly, you will get chance to tets its ''Climatronic'' in ''California summer '06!

:incar:

[Benman]

Originally posted by AndyBG
Hoppefuly, you will get chance to tets its ''Climatronic'' in ''California summer '06!

:incar:

Very first thing I told the Mrs. we'll do with her Q7 when we get it (late summer/early fall???) is a road trip up to Napa/Sonoma Valley for a wine festival weekend. Plenty of room in the back for mucho vino.:hahahehe: :thumb:

Ben:addict:

[AndyBG]

Originally posted by Benman
... Plenty of room in the back for mucho vino.


:applause: :hihi: