PDA

View Full Version : Whats up with European Car Mag?



R8isGreat
January 28th, 2005, 16:28
European Car has an article at the front of the mag called "Life at the limit" by some guy named Alistair Weaver. He seems to think that he is like the head of all of the big 3 German car companies at oince. Listen to what he has been saying about our beloved Audi in the past 3 issues. Please forgive the length, but I want to accuratly present what he says......

MARCH 2005
The articke begans talking about the poor job VAG is doing with the Bugatti Veyron and calls it a "badly conceved white elephant" despite the fact he hasnt seen it or knows it capabilities. He works his way through Volkswagen and dogs the Golf then gets to Audi and says........

"Audi has traditionally been one of the worst perpetrators. In recent years, the company has been publicly commited to developing RS models with more power than the equivalent car from BMW M power. This commitment dictated that if the new M5 has 500 bhp then the next RS6 must have at least 501 bhp. For a company that is still playing brand catch up, it was an understandable policy, but there are sighs that is is about to be abondoned."

Somehow he must know that the guys at Quatteo Gmbh have a picture of an M5 an E55 on the wall and they keep that in sight the whole time? Then he goes on to say....

"..I fell into a discussion with Stephen Reil, who is in charge of product developnent at Quattro Gmbh, Audi's equivalent of M Power. Reil is masterminding the next generation of RS models and his thought on the power struggle between Audi, Mercedes (AMG), and BMW (M Power) were facinating. "Continuing to increase the power output is not the way foward," he said. "With more power you increase the weight and we think that is silly. If things continus as they are you end up with a 1,000-bhp A4....With a rear wheel drive car, all you succeed in doing is lighting up the yellow ASR sign,"he explained, making a thinly veiled criticism of AMG, which now markets a 603-bhp limousine." The Quattro chief was not only trying to make a case for the benefits of four-wheel drive; he was also urging a change of focus. According to Reil, the Quattro Gmbh brand will "continue to support the exclusive and sporty image of Audi by developing cars that combine high-power outputs with outstanding dynamics and road handleing. You have to change the emphesis to suspension and tires," he said."

Weaver continues with "Reil will have an oportunity to demonstrate the benefits of this change of focus when the new RS4 is introduced later this year (2005). It should make its debut at roughly the same time at VW-owned Bugatti finally delivers it's first production car. Perhaps we'll end 2005 talking about their wonderful chassis dynamics, rather that headlining the RS4's 420 bhp or the fact that the Veyron dosnt quite have 1,000 bhp. But somehow i doubt it."

SOOOO..after talking to the head of Quattro Gmbh, Weaver is saying that everything that Reil said was false, and Audi is still in some HP war with Benz and BMW!!!

February 2005

Mr. Weaver is at the track with "...a bunch of Audi owners. Most of them were track virgins and their reaction to the event was facinating. Rather than hail the genius of their natural car control abilities or the benefits of the Quattro drivetrain in such trecherous conditions, they all proclaimed the genius of ESP. When a youthfull owner of a tuned 420-bhp S4 Avant returned to the pits, all he could say was, "I never realised ESP was so good."....In many instances, Esp was the only thing that kept them out of the bushes. Back in the pits, S4 man told me that he hadnt dared turn off the ESP because he'd no doubt spun immediately."

I just think it is interesting that he selects a "bunch of Audi owners" to talk about how terrible they were.

December 2004

Mr Weaver calls the 2005 A6 styling "contrived and heavy handed."

I dont see why he seems bent on picking out Audi's and ewither baching their looks, bashing their drivers, or bashing their designers. Did he get burnt by an RS6? WHo knows. Just intresting that in 4 months he bashes Audi 3 times.

Oh yes, in October 2004, he says that Aston Martin (who has yet in his history to turn a profit) has a stronger image than any other car company in the world!!

Whew. Thanks for letting me vent..
:vgrumpy: :doh: :( :brag:

Benman
January 28th, 2005, 16:50
R8 is Great,

Understand your frustration. Try not to take it personal. Big wigs from car mags think there the shiz ALL the time. Jeremy Clarkson from UK does it all the time, and often doesn't even make sence. Just one example is that on several tests he picked the RS 6 over the E55, yet he went out and BOUGHT the E55!?! Right after he just said he preferred the RS 6!:vhmmm: Don't get me wrong, when journalist pick Audi as the better product I think it's cool and all, it just doesn't mean it's true. It is after all just their opinion.

He may end up being right about the Bugatti however. No one one knows how much it really is going to end up weighing. I doubt however that it will weight more than the SLR (@3800lbs). He could be very wrong though, and it may end up being a sensational driver. Time will tell if his predictions are prophetic or like MOST journalist, just failed predictions to sell mags.:cheers:
Ben:addict:

Audihead
January 28th, 2005, 18:20
Time for some cliches: If it bleeds, it leads. No news is good news.
Everyone wants doom and gloom, it sells. If they don't talk about you it just might be a good thing. This guy is just writing opinions, they don't have to be right or wrong. A job kind of like a weatherman, they can be totally wrong and still keep their jobs. Kinda' neat huh?

:s4addict:

R8isGreat
January 29th, 2005, 17:19
Look at these haters (http://forums.germancarfans.com/zerothread?id=11891)

Gaa...!!!
This site is talking about an A4, and all these people with MPOWER, and AMG are saying "I really dont like it." Hmmmm...No bias or anything.

One person says that the A4 needed a large wing on the back, and to be lowered over 2 inches. Hmmmm.

I knew they were ful of it when they said "I see why Audi dosnt win any DTM races." Hmmm....Audi won 5 of 10 last year, was 1st on pole 6 of 10 times, and won the championship outright.

Im glad this forum exists, and truth can be disseminated rather than boshivek propaganda.

clam
January 29th, 2005, 18:18
Originally posted by Benman
R8 is Great,

Understand your frustration. Try not to take it personal. Big wigs from car mags think there the shiz ALL the time. Jeremy Clarkson from UK does it all the time, and often doesn't even make sence. Just one example is that on several tests he picked the RS 6 over the E55, yet he went out and BOUGHT the E55!?! Right after he just said he preferred the RS 6!:vhmmm: Don't get me wrong, when journalist pick Audi as the better product I think it's cool and all, it just doesn't mean it's true. It is after all just their opinion.


JC bought an SL55, before the RS6 test I believe. If you can look past the satire, JCs' reporting is fair.

I must say, I agree with the guy. Audi lacks in the dynamic department, and has made up for that with brute force. If they call off the HP war (which they started), they'll have to pay some serious attention to dynamics.

The problem is with the Torsen diff. First is the weight balance, which they seem to be addressing with the forthcoming B8 platform. Second is the 50/50 balance. This works in motorsport, b/c they apply a left foot braking technique (braking and throttle at the same time). A roadcar can't handle this kind of abuse, and would do better with a rear biased power/torque distribution. Which they also seem to be addressing, with a 40:60 rear bias setup. This will enable power-steering (using the throttle to find a balance between under- and oversteer).
They should also tinker with the reaction speed of Torsen a bit, and Active Yaw Controle (if possible with mechanical diff.) where the brakes work together with the diffs to achieve the best possible grip.

You have to admire Audis' strong-headed-ness. It would be so easy just to switch to RWD, but they just keep going with Torsen, and hopefully their effort will be rewarded some day, when they leave the competition in the dust. Kinda like Porsche, and their engine-in-the-back layout. But for now, Audi simply lacks in dynamics. So Weaver is right in saying that Audi can't just leave the HP war behind, unless they can make some serious dynamic improvements.

I know as an enthusiast it's hard to see fault with "your brand", but it's better to just accept that the flaws are there, and give Audi the incentive to work on them.
I for one, as an Audiphile, will keep complaining about the Haldex clutch untill they install a real AWD differential.

As far as the Veyron goes, it's wrong on so many levels. But that's the whole point. 16cyl, 4turbos, 400kmph, €1million,... it doesn't make sense, but it's freaking cool. Ettori Bugatti would be proud to have his name on it.

clam
January 29th, 2005, 18:19
sorry, double post

5000S old skool
January 29th, 2005, 23:24
Originally posted by R8isGreat One person says that the A4 needed a large wing on the back, and to be lowered over 2 inches. Hmmmm. [/B]

one word.......RICER!!!

RS4Ever
January 30th, 2005, 01:48
ahh

dont let things like this boil your blood... if that mo-fo had to publicly critize audi 3 times then we know who's blood is boiling.
he must be very :cry: scared of Audi.. hehe:hihi:


i'm subscribed to motor trend magazine and they arent much of audi fans either... they praise bmw.


another nice thing i've learned on this great site is that a journalist can be very good at writing articles... but not the best when it comes to :incar: test driving cars.

Benman
January 31st, 2005, 18:36
Originally posted by clam
JC bought an SL55, before the RS6 test I believe. If you can look past the satire, JCs' reporting is fair.

I must say, I agree with the guy. Audi lacks in the dynamic department, and has made up for that with brute force. If they call off the HP war (which they started), they'll have to pay some serious attention to dynamics.


As far as the Veyron goes, it's wrong on so many levels. But that's the whole point. 16cyl, 4turbos, 400kmph, €1million,... it doesn't make sense, but it's freaking cool. Ettori Bugatti would be proud to have his name on it.
Clam:cheers: ,

It was said that Clarkson purchased a E55 but that may be wrong. I find him more entertaining than anything We must remember that their words are in fact just opinions.

Audi does lack in the "dynamics" compared to BMW and others but like you mentioned on Porsche, they're sticking with it and trying to improve it instead of just giving up and making a BMW copy (AKA IS 300, AKA Altezza).

As for HP war, I would think the M5 had put out superior #s to the other manufactures and they (Audi included) are just following suit. You could mention the RS 2 for argument, but I don't beleive that was ever meant to compete with the M3 at the time, more of a specialty car.

And yes, the Bugatti is totally insane, but that's what makes it so cool.

Ben:addict:

R8isGreat
February 1st, 2005, 00:58
I dont get the impression that Audi started the HP war. They made an RS6 to COMPETE with the E55 and the M5 that Mercedes and BMW had put out. Would it make sense that they should introduce a RS6 with 300 HP, that would not even compete with the competition? And what about the S4? Remember that the previous S4 had 250 bhp, while the BMW and Benz counterpart sported superior numbers. Not until BMW AGAIN raised the M3 to 333 bhp, and Benz introduced the C32 with 340 bhp did Audi come out with a 340 bhp S4. Now what has happened? Bmw comes out with a M5 that claims more than 500 bhp, Benz does the same with their E55! And what about Benz with their CL 65? It looks like BMW wont be outdone so they have to plop a V8 in the M# just like everyone else. So who started the HP war? Would it be better to have a 300 bhp RS6 and a 250 bhp S4? Audi has to keep up, or build a superior alternative. I agree that HP isnt the key to faster times. Audi DOES need to lower the weight, put more HP to the rear wheels, and drop the Haladex wet cluch for full AWD, but dont lay blame at Audi's feet for BMW and Benz upping the antie every time Audi bests them

Also my point concerning the European Car guy, is that in 4 issues he has dogged Audi 3 times! More cars come from europe than Audi.

R8isGreat
February 1st, 2005, 16:25
Winter testing thread posted

Buggatti Veyron (http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6073)

R8isGreat
February 22nd, 2005, 15:30
Just wanted to lat you guys know that the newest European Car MAg has dropped Alistair Weaver's article from its publication. I dont know if it is temporary or non, but it seems thast some people read our site and take what we say seriously.

RS4Ever
February 22nd, 2005, 20:12
:hihi: thats good to hear.

thanks for the update.

SuperstarDriver
February 27th, 2007, 14:21
scuze me guys....but who has made those appealing statements about audi is a big IDIOT, MOROUN, ASSHOLE, BITCH AND MANY MORE..is highly likely to be a stupid man with 1 neuron in his head and actually workin on BMW or MB...fuck him off!!!

MR USER
February 27th, 2007, 17:09
Superstar you should be in politics, I would definitely vote for you!!!
May be you would be better as a diplomat!

Fully aprove you point!!! these journalists should just keep their mouth shut!

Klint
February 27th, 2007, 17:26
Not sure, but one thing's for certain, an European Car Mag shouldn't be written by an American!

Leadfoot
February 27th, 2007, 17:36
The only valid point he made was that all Audi trackday are design to show the benefits of ESP. Some may say were is the fun in that but Audi are to grown-up for fun, it's all education on how to control understeer and oversteer.

GNXJerry
February 28th, 2007, 01:47
The PROOF is in the pudding, so to speak. I'm referring to the old addage

of Race on Sunday, Sell on Monday. Isn't it true...Audi has had it's best sales

year ever. Sales are on an upswing. Whether it is because is PR selling a more

upscale image or people are finding the performance/reliability factor...?? WHO

KNOWS.

To me, the proof is in who's the leader. Not in HorsePower figures, but by

who's leading the race at the finish line. It was the SCCA success the lead me to

become a new Audiphile this past year. OK (2003,and 2004) I was rooting for

Cadillac back then, but one testdrive in an awsome RS6 changed me forever.

Audi's success in the Le Mans series is phenomenal. There's no arguing that their

motto-- Vorsprung Durch Tecknik --is moving Audi in directions we'll follow.

SuperstarDriver
March 6th, 2007, 08:49
Somehow, somewhere, someone on this world is capable of getting sound from his mouth which 90% of us we didn't heard before like:BMW is the best feel maker in the world, like MB is the most luxury in the world and like Audi is not so fast on a circuit...did anyone understand those words?Are in chinese?i think are it...cause this papagal wanna show to the whole world how stupidity can be a challenge to him an developing martian ideas like this...we all live in a world where Worsprung Durch Technik is no 1...software is growing by this idea, hardware as well, cars as well, gadgets as well, so where the hack in the world "ultimate driving machine" has "beaten" Worsprung Durch Technik...sweet dreams never be so real to the most of us...Audi is the best brand in the world..even for the brand Audi has been awarded to be one of a king THE BEST EARTH SHAKING CONSTRUCTOR IN THE WORLD...NO1 BRAND CAR OF THE WORLD AWARD!!!Shall give some respect to all...

RacerBice
March 6th, 2007, 09:44
Personally, I don't understand why so many need to unreservedly categorize one brand as better than the other. I myself only look at the particular cars on offer, and wouldn't hesitate to buy a beemer or a benz the day either of them actually releases something interesting (i.e., in the case of BMW, something that isn't butt ugly, and in the case of Benz something this side of the K70 mark that doesn't just make me fall asleep). For the time being, though, Audi products appeal more to my taste. And objectively, criticism aimed at Audi as described in this thread is simply not fair. Nevertheless, you're never better than your last performance (a quote that works in the car industry just as well as it does in entertainment and sports) so Audi need to keep the momentum going. Looking at the new A5, I regret having to say that they seem to have taken a huge step backwards. At least design wise.

SuperstarDriver
March 6th, 2007, 16:00
sorry man your wrong...actually A5 is a beauty !!!IT IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL AUDI (i do not count R8 cause R8 is R8:D) but WE ALL SEE A5 IS A SUPER BEUTY!!!WHY DON'T YOU SEE THAT MAN?!!!