Hamilton robbed of the title.

[Leadfoot]

I suppose almost everyone watched the last GP race in amazement as to how young Hamilton could have so much misfortune. Well I have a theory to what happened. :hahahehe:

Remember what Mr Ecclestone said, namely he wanted Alonzo the win and not Hamilton because his career is just starting, well it is very unusual for a British person not to be supporting a fellow countryman don't you think. ;) Is it possible a deal was done with regards to the $50M not being paid in return for Ferrari being given the title on both fronts (Constructor's and Driver's). Could McLaren or someone else fixed Hamilton's car to develop this fault plus why make him three stop when all the other front runners were on a two stop race, this effectively destroyed his chances of getting to fifth place which he was easily on the cards to get to, there is lots of this last race which don't add up to me.

Is it a case of too much caffeine.:trash:

Maybe but with this latest development regarding fuel in both the BMW and Williams cars which might reposition young Hamilton into the Driver's title stranger thing can come true. :looking:

[Jani]

Young Hamilton screwed it up himself. All he needed to do was finish in position 5 in either of the last 2 races. Instead he wanted to win it with a win, and did not. In China the mistake was by driver error. In Brazil the car was not reliable -such is racing. Cars tend to get technical problems when you treat them the way Lewis did, sliding over kerbs.

But what ever the outcome, the one with most points deserves the championship, congratulations Kimi!

And I fail to see the logic, that BMW and Williams drivers would lose points for the minor fuel temperature error, when McLaren drivers got to keep the points after the spying episode. So lets just celebrate Kimi :race:

[tazsura]

I'm a Brit and am glad that Kimi was crowned Champion. He came from nowhere to snatch the Title from the squabbling Maccers. Made them look like Class A Plonkers.

I find it truely amusing how Mclaren and "I'm a smug git" Ron Dennis have managed to utterly balls up this season. They had everything, and have finished with nothing. Ron needs to learn to be a better loser and a more gracious winner.

Hamilton is going to be Champion sometime. However yesterday he did have misfortune, but the same can be said of Kimi and Massa during the season. Hamiltons just came at completely the wrong time. He also made some driver errors yday, and relied very heavily on the other drivers being very kind to him when he was passing them. The move on Barrichello was a disaster waiting to happen, well done to Rubens for avoiding a collision.

With regards to the fuel issue, i think precedence has already been set for this back in '98 i think. The teams were deducted constructor's points, but not drivers. Sounds familiar...a'la this year with the whole Spygate fiasco!

Taz :race:

[Erik]

Great race now that Schumi is gone.

I guess Hamilton lacked the experience and coolness that some other driver have.

Btw, my avatar is cooler than yours Leadie ;)

[AndyBG]

I'm HUGE McLaren fan and all I can say to Ferraris title is puke:

Hamilton deserved title !

He is 24, and he show them how F1 should be driven !

No calculations, no team orders, just racing... McLaren is only team in F1 that don't have no. 1 and no.2 driver, they are both no. 1 !

If McLaren had 1-2 filosofy, it would now have double more titles than it has.

Why Massa let Raikkonen overtaking him yesterday... WHY ?

He should quit racing after all this.

[Bingocaller]

Last word on the street is that there might be some problems with the fuel ammount in the BMW cars. So if these are disqualified for "cheating" Hamilton with grab the title after all.... (Info from a Danish newspaper)

[MPT]

Last word on the street is that there might be some problems with the fuel ammount in the BMW cars. So if these are disqualified for "cheating" Hamilton with grab the title after all.... (Info from a Danish newspaper)

I think the problem with this was, that the fuel they put on some of the cars were too cold. Fuel becomes more dense, when it's cold and therefore they could have a bit more fuel in the tank.

But again - what a shame Hamilton didn't win.

[Leadfoot]

Great race now that Schumi is gone.

I guess Hamilton lacked the experience and coolness that some other driver have.

Btw, my avatar is cooler than yours Leadie ;)

I was wondering when someone would notice that, it's for the benefit of RussianM3_dude but clearly he's not the die-hard fan I thought he was. :hihi:

[Leadfoot]

I think the problem with this was, that the fuel they put on some of the cars were too cold. Fuel becomes more dense, when it's cold and therefore they could have a bit more fuel in the tank.

But again - what a shame Hamilton didn't win.

It's surprising how much of a difference this could have made to when these two teams had to pit and how long they could run for.

Regarding young Hamilton's mistakes, granted he was a bit inexperienced where he got himself positioned stuck in behind Kimi at the first corner allowing Alonzo to nip through but the running wide at the corner I believe was gearbox error and not his.

China was again not his error but the teams, leaving him out to long was their decision, after all they are the ones reading the data from the car and knowing how much fuel etc is in the car. The decision to make Hamilton pit three times is the strangest decision of the lot, for starters this added 20 seconds or more to his race and because of this made he have to re-pass drivers more than once.

Also regarding the spying scandal, I believe the sacked Ferrari team member was also meant to have info on McLaren's cars but again this seems to have been swiped under the carpet. Ferrari do seem to have different rules which apply to them alone, and before someone thinks I believe McLaren should have gotten away scot-free I am not thinking this, but the punishment does not fit the crime. If I am right in thinking, as soon as Ron Dennis became aware of this he informed the FIA, in other words the team weren't grassed up they were the ones to info of the situation and also was there any proof that Ferrari designs were present on the McLaren car.

I believe the main person with most of the info regarding the Ferrari as none other than Mr Alonzo, maybe he should have been the one to get punished and not the team itself.

[Benman]

Honestly I stopped watching F1 last year after all the insane rules to promote safety and cost "reduction". Watching the cars pit and a bunch of fools just poke temp gauges into the tires was sickening. No tire changes? Please. Then, no more V10s? Will have puny little V8s... Please.

Then watching all the politics of Mr. Ecclestone's massive ego get bigger and bigger.. no thanks. F1 is now worse than NASCAR in my eyes. A sick joke of what it used to be just a few years back.

Personally, I'm glad Kimi stuck it to McLaren. As tazsura said, he came from NOWHERE to snatch the title away from the rookie. Hamilton is great, and I'm sure he'll win a championship in the future, but I'm sick of McLaren (not a huge fan of Ferrari though) and sick of all the big wigs. Good for Kimi. Stick it to the old bosses. :cheers:

Ben:addict:

[quattro Gmbh]

http://www.itv-f1.com/ImageLibrary/45351_2.jpg:hihi:

[crespo]

Sorry, all driver errors. We have to remember he's a rookie. Astonishingly, those were only his second and third major mistakes all season. He's had a tremendous season, but ultimately experience beat out youth and inexperience.

He could have won the championship twice. Easily. 2 points in 2 deciding races a champion does not make.

And now he has apparently admitted to having accidentally pressed the startup sequence button, which means there was no transmission failure.

As great a run as he had, chalk it up to being a rookie. Nerves got him good.

Well deserved win by Kimi. He took all the points he needed when it counted. GREAT racing all season. (I was at Interlagos for the race, btw, awesome experience).

[Leadfoot]

I hope he has as good a car next year and I hope he has a team driver who is a team player this time as Alonso was only interested in himself. You are right he was a rookie, but quite possibly the best rookie ever, better than Senna, Mansell or Schumacher. He will win it someday but it would have been quite something if it had have happened this year.

In my opinion he is in a league of his own.

[rubyblack]

I suppose almost everyone watched the last GP race in amazement as to how young Hamilton could have so much misfortune. Well I have a theory to what happened. :hahahehe:

Remember what Mr Ecclestone said, namely he wanted Alonzo the win and not Hamilton because his career is just starting, well it is very unusual for a British person not to be supporting a fellow countryman don't you think. ;) Is it possible a deal was done with regards to the $50M not being paid in return for Ferrari being given the title on both fronts (Constructor's and Driver's). Could McLaren or someone else fixed Hamilton's car to develop this fault plus why make him three stop when all the other front runners were on a two stop race, this effectively destroyed his chances of getting to fifth place which he was easily on the cards to get to, there is lots of this last race which don't add up to me.

Is it a case of too much caffeine.:trash:

Maybe but with this latest development regarding fuel in both the BMW and Williams cars which might reposition young Hamilton into the Driver's title stranger thing can come true. :looking:


And what actually happened was....:thumb:

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071022220432.shtml

Doh...:doh:

[Benman]

"Being promoted after some people have been thrown out is not the way I want to do it," he told Reuters.

His thoughts also went to Ferrari driver and provisional title holder Kimi Raikkonen: "To have it taken away is a bit cruel and probably not good for the sport."

Good for Hamilton. At least he has the common sense that Dennis completely lacks.

Ben:addict:

[tazsura]

[I]

Good for Hamilton. At least he has the common sense that Dennis completely lacks.

Ben:addict:

Exactly. Well done Lewis. :applause:

BTW Everyone seems to have forgotten what Jacques Villeneuve did in his Rookie year in F1. He took Pole in his first race, and had it not been for an oil leak and teeam orders, he would have won the race rather than finish second. He won i think his fourth race and three others during the season. And he also took the championship to the final race, eventually finishing runner-up. Not bad for a rookie season hey...

Taz :thumb:

[Benman]

Good point Taz as I forgot about Jacques. Perhaps Hamilton, like Jacques, will be driving NASCAR in the not too distant future. :D:applause:

Ben:addict:

[Audihead]

It was Hamilton's to win or lose. He will not make the same mistakes twice. The "Iceman Winneth" Go Kimi! If anyone deserves to win, it was him. If it wasn't for crap luck he wouldn't have any at all. He finally got some. David Hobbs was asking near the end of the race, " Where is the black helicopter with the anvil to drop on Kimi's car".:hihi:
I like Hamilton, but the win went to the right person IMHO.

http://www.chroniclejournal.com/includes/CP_stories/71/71019.jpg

[Jani]

The mystery is solved, why Kimi won :)


http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6336/wc2007tr1.jpg

Lewis' time will come. Looking forward to some epic battles between Lewis and Fernando, and Fernando vs McLaren -while Kimi cruises to further wins.

[quattro Gmbh]

And what actually happened was....:thumb:

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071022220432.shtml

Doh...:doh:

Dennis stated that it was a gearbox problem.

[Jani]

Dennis also stated that McLaren had no access to Ferrari drawings, only Coughlan. Apparently that was not true, so don't mistake Ron's statements for the truth. :)

[crespo]

Good on Lewis for what he said about the appeal. Apparently *everyone* is against McLaren on that one (and rightly so).

[quattro Gmbh]

yes but not only ron thinks so. the canadian newspaper has no evidence where it got the information from.



Compounding these rumours was a report in Montreal's newspaper La Presse, which quotes Hamilton directly as saying he indeed pushed the wrong button.

However, a source close to the Hamilton family has described the report as "absolute rubbish", telling that Hamilton has not spoken to the Canadian newspaper or said anything as such to anyone.

A McLaren spokesperson also denied the report and said the failure was not down to human error.

"We can confirm that the temporary gear shifting problem Lewis suffered on lap eight of the Brazilian Grand Prix was due to a default in the gearbox that selected neutral for a period of time," she said.

"It was not as a result of Lewis pressing an incorrect button on his steering wheel."

McLaren F1 CEO Martin Whitmarsh also ruled out driver error and said the likely reason is hydraulic valve failure.

"It was a gearbox problem, and it went into forced-neutral and changing down seemed to rectify it - it might be mechanical, but we doubt it," he told Autosport magazine.

"If it was something mechanical, they usually don't fix themselves. It could be electronics software - but there's no evidence in the analysis to support that. Could be a sensor - but again, there's no evidence in the data recordings.

"So it would appear that the barrels that change gear went out of control - and out of control of the driver - and that's probably hydraulic.

"That could be either a very small Moog servo control valves that were interfered with by a tiny piece of debris or they are sensitive to magnetic interference - something generated a magnetic field which caused the valve to misbehave."

[MR USER]

Lewis deserved to win... I strogly believe that what we have seen in the last few races is a clear example of bad management. Mr. Dennis is to be blamed for loosing pilot and constructor championship. Only him. What lewis did is incredible.

On the other hand... FORZA ROSSE!!!!!! Grande KIMI!!!!

[Speedou]

I think Kimi deserved the win and Hamilton will be champion in some year. He just showed that he is a rookie as every body are at the start. Those who says he is in his own league you must remember that not many of the best drivers have started their season in the fastest (with ferrari of course) team. Those who knows Kimis history, will also know that he is quite much in his own league...not saying that he is better than Hamilton. Don't even no Hamiltons history, but Kimi has pretty awsome...

[Leadfoot]

I agree the Kimi is a hell of a driver and you are correct that the McLaren is a hell of a car to start your first season in, but you also have to remember that in starting with such a competitive team means you will be teamed up with a hell of a good team driver, namely the world champion Alonso. What Hamilton did was join the team as the underdog and second driver (regardless of what McLaren say that there is no team orders) and put his mark on the team right from the beginning and well and truly put Alonso's nose out in the process.

For most of the season he show a maturity that few seasoned drivers have, so in my opinion I still class him in a league of his own.

[RussianM3_dude]

Well, in the end Ferrari beat McCheaters in both Constructors 204/203 AND Drivers.

[Z07]

Well, in the end Ferrari beat McCheaters in both Constructors 204/203 AND Drivers.
Only Ferrari were also cheating, as the illegal exchange of information found.

[Leadfoot]

Only Ferrari were also cheating, as the illegal exchange of information found.

Correct, one rule for Ferrari and another for the rest.

This year's F1 season will be remembered for 3 things.

1/ Mr Hamilton is an amazing talent and an amazing find.

2/ Amazing racing.

3/ The worst politics and oh yeah, FIA make the time fit the crime next time.

[Fab]

So is Kimi offically champion now ??

[Leadfoot]

I can't believe after all this time they will rule against BMW and Williams and hand the title to Hamilton, but I will add this, if the shoe was on the other foot and Ferrari were the one to benefit for this situation I know they would be doing the very same as McLaren.

And I don't doubt they would get the result they would be looking.

[RussianM3_dude]

Only Ferrari were also cheating, as the illegal exchange of information found.

Ferrari wasn't cheating as they weren't using any McCheaters info.

[Leadfoot]

Ferrari wasn't cheating as they weren't using any McCheaters info.

By the way McLaren weren't proven to have used any of Ferrari's info but their still received the punishment for reporting the matter to the authorities while Ferrari got away scot-free.

The FIA are very consistent in these matters. ;)

[Z07]

Ferrari wasn't cheating as they weren't using any McCheaters info.

No but they were using prohibited technology on their cars at the time. After this was reported, it got out that McClaren was using information gained by illegitimate means.

[Speedou]

Heh, it is nice to see how you think about the things. When Häkkinen raced against the Schumaher, it always felt like the Ferrari can do what ever they want. And now it feels same to McLaren. Is it in head, or is it in F1? ;)

[Z07]

Heh, it is nice to see how you think about the things. When Häkkinen raced against the Schumaher, it always felt like the Ferrari can do what ever they want. And now it feels same to McLaren. Is it in head, or is it in F1? ;)
I think Kimi deserved to win the title. I like the guy. I like his (lack of) work ethic.

However, FIA regulation has become a laughing stock. Both Ferrari and McLaren broke the rules. Both should have been punished not one. The over-priced Fiat should not have taken the constructor's title. If there was a fuel irregularity in the last race, that should have been punished too. Rules are either there or they aren't.

Ferrari were using a front splitter that dropped at speed. This constitutes an illegal movable aerodynamic device.

Incidentally, do FIA rules say anything about espionage?

[Jani]

Bla bla bla. We can go on about who did what and how, it does not change the facts.

Kimi won. That is all that will be remembered.

[RussianM3_dude]

Kimi won in an inferior car too.