PDA

View Full Version : EVO on S5



Erik
June 27th, 2007, 23:44
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/208439/audi_s5.html

Benman
June 28th, 2007, 01:41
Only 3 1/2 stars? Seems a bit harsh, no?

Ben:addict:

chewym
June 28th, 2007, 04:10
Yet another review that compares the S5 to the RS4.

Vorsprung
June 28th, 2007, 05:48
The S5 has not been doing particularly well in many reviews it seems. Audi seem to have done to the S5 what they did to the S6. Its a half attempt at creating an all-out sports car. Possibly because they need to leave room for the RS5, just as they had to do for the upcoming RS6.

If you ask me, Audi need to revise their product strategy. What is the purpose of the "S" cars now. They served a purpose once upon a time, when RS cars didnt exist, and the "S" badge carried the sports name of Audi. But as we start getting more and more "RS" models (and they have shown to be nothing but truly fantastic cars), the "S" models are now becoming half-hearted attempts by Audi, as they need to leave room for improvement for the RS cars.

I think the current S6 is evidence of that. Very little praises and excitement (even on this board) about the S6. We all know its the RS6 we want. The S5 seems to be falling into the same category. Many expected the new S5 to be able to at least match (if not outperform) the RS4 with its newer chassis design etc, but it seems it is no match for an RS4 whatsoever. Audi "S" cars are no longer what they used to be. Its the "RS" cars we need to wipe the competition from ///M & AMG out.

Leadfoot
June 28th, 2007, 09:58
Vorsprung,

I have always be a fans of the S model in all forms of the Audi range but I am starting to lose faith in their current strategy, first we had the S6 which was miles away from the M5 in performance terms and now the S5 which again is well below that of the new M3. Audi already have the S-Line if someone want to make their standard A model that little bit sportier looking and improve it's handling dynamics.

The S5 could quite easily had something in between what it got power wise and the RS4 and no RS4 owner would have felt short changed and it could also have been a real driver's car from all accounts coming out of the factory, oversteer was easily achieve but for one reason or another they chose not to go down to route, maybe the very first TTs had something to do with this, given the accidents and deaths in it early production, Audi maybe feel that lightening could indeed strike twice.

Audi need to re-look at their S model strategy and give it back it's teeth, because at it's present price the BMW 335Ci looks a lot better value.

Vorsprung
June 28th, 2007, 13:46
Vorsprung,

I have always be a fans of the S model in all forms of the Audi range but I am starting to lose faith in their current strategy, first we had the S6 which was miles away from the M5 in performance terms and now the S5 which again is well below that of the new M3. Audi already have the S-Line if someone want to make their standard A model that little bit sportier looking and improve it's handling dynamics.

The S5 could quite easily had something in between what it got power wise and the RS4 and no RS4 owner would have felt short changed and it could also have been a real driver's car from all accounts coming out of the factory, oversteer was easily achieve but for one reason or another they chose not to go down to route, maybe the very first TTs had something to do with this, given the accidents and deaths in it early production, Audi maybe feel that lightening could indeed strike twice.

Audi need to re-look at their S model strategy and give it back it's teeth, because at it's present price the BMW 335Ci looks a lot better value.

Exactly my point Leadfoot. I cant see Audi maintaining the "S" brand much longer going forward if the "RS" cars are supposed to be the proper sports models.

I dont think the current S6 has sold well worldwide. And as you say, cars like the 335Ci are much better value than an S5. The "S" brand is in trouble.
Thank goodness though that Audi are focusing on strengthening their "RS" line-ups. The "RS" cars seem to only get better and better! :rs4kiss: :R8kiss: :rs6kiss:

Klint
June 28th, 2007, 14:19
Agree with Vorsprung here, you may aswell opt for a S-line model over a proper S model, you get the looks without the drawbacks.

artur777
June 28th, 2007, 15:21
Agree, guys!

In Russia the sales of S6 are very low (10 cars for the last year) comparing to A6 and pre-orders for RS6:
- A6 - about 5000 cars has been released
- RS6 - about 200 pre-orders already has been coleected

The "S" brand is in trouble because it's got somewhere between A-line and RS-line. May be it's better to think that S models are high-level A-line, but not sport cars.

Leadfoot
June 28th, 2007, 18:29
The thing that I am a bit confused about is some magazines have given it a glowing report, saying it going to put Audi on the map with regards to being the best sports coupe in it's sector. Yet in another they slate it for being to bland and average to drive.

My problem with it is that it's not giving enough of a performance hike over the 335ci for the extra money involved, in the UK to difference is approaching 15%. The car needs more power and dare I say it, a lighter engine over the front wheels.

It will be interesting to see what improvement the handling of the new TT/S will have over the similarly powered TT3.2, if it's handling dynamics is a major improvement then surely that what Audi have to do with the S5, give it an engine with a bit more power, a bit more torque and reduce to front end weight.

Now that's the S5 sorted, what's next.:D

chewym
June 29th, 2007, 05:24
Also, wait until some comparisons. The S6 did not get glowing reviews. But then, it beat the M5/E63 a couple of times.

Vorsprung
June 29th, 2007, 06:09
Also, wait until some comparisons. The S6 did not get glowing reviews. But then, it beat the M5/E63 a couple of times.


Chewym, the very few tests that the S6 may have come out on top over the M5/E63, have been based on other factors.
As much as I'm an Audi fan, an S6 stands no chance in hell against an M5/E63 performance wise.

chewym
June 29th, 2007, 08:03
Chewym, the very few tests that the S6 may have come out on top over the M5/E63, have been based on other factors.
As much as I'm an Audi fan, an S6 stands no chance in hell against an M5/E63 performance wise.

It's slower, but it handles better. No lie.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/luxury/sedan/112_0702_luxury_sports_sedan_comparison

Look at the handling figures at the end, and the virtual video.

You can say that the current crop of S vehicles is a bit low on power. This is why Audi needs a bigger cylinder. The current V6s and V8 won't cut it for long. Or it needs to make some bigger TFSI/TSIs.

Leadfoot
June 29th, 2007, 12:39
You can say that the current crop of S vehicles is a bit low on power. This is why Audi needs a bigger cylinder. The current V6s and V8 won't cut it for long. Or it needs to make some bigger TFSI/TSIs.

Well there is rumours that Audi are just about to release their very own twin-turbo 6 cylinder engine. It's doubtful that this engine will replace to current v8 in the S5, but there is a chance of it making it's way into the A5 above the present 3.2FSi and later on be seen in the new S4 but only if the S4 isn't released at the same time as the A4.

I still don't know why Audi released the S5 at launch unless they intended to bring the RS5 a lot sooner than is normal. I feel they should have released the S5 and called it an A5v8 which would have allowed for a much more driver's focused S5 with closer to 400hp to be launched just after the RS4's production had finished in Europe.

But then again what do I know, I only drive them.

ZeroCool
June 29th, 2007, 19:16
Audi released the S5 at launch because they got a lot of critics....because the S-Version always comes 1 or 2 (i don't know) years later then the A-Version...and then the RS cames at the end of the production line...

Now they start to release A and S at the same time....RS one year later...so the customer have more oppurtinites ... i think it's the better way...like they do it now...

p.s. i had an S5 now for 20 minutes.... --> WOW² !!! the car is just amazing...the sound, the interieur, the exterieur ... just wonderful...before i drove the S5 i had an BMW 330cd ... IMO no chance again the A/S5 ... (when you look at the exterieur/interieur) ... my heart is just pumpin...

Leadfoot
July 1st, 2007, 12:10
Audi released the S5 at launch because they got a lot of critics....because the S-Version always comes 1 or 2 (i don't know) years later then the A-Version...and then the RS cames at the end of the production line...

Now they start to release A and S at the same time....RS one year later...so the customer have more oppurtinites ... i think it's the better way...like they do it now...

p.s. i had an S5 now for 20 minutes.... --> WOW² !!! the car is just amazing...the sound, the interieur, the exterieur ... just wonderful...before i drove the S5 i had an BMW 330cd ... IMO no chance again the A/S5 ... (when you look at the exterieur/interieur) ... my heart is just pumpin...

I didn't get to drive the S5 and the only model available to me at the time was the A5 3.0TDi, not prefect but baggers can't be choosers. Anyway back to the test drive, the improved version of the 3.0TDi is very impressive indeed, the refinement is great but the most lasting impression was it's ability to put cleanly from ... get this 750rpm in topgear :bigeyes:, I have yet to find any diesel engine with a turbo to do such an action. The handling feels very precise but it's too refined for it's own good, the steering is lifeless and the only knowledge you get from the road surface is by your eyes and your backside. To add to the problem, the sports suspension is at odds with the steering, it's ride is much firmer than the TT but the rest of the controls are more in keeping with a luxury car.

I don't know about the A5, based on my experience I doubt Audi have improved things over the old A4. I know my experience doesn't include the S5 or the rest of the range and is only based on the nose heavier diesel version so I will hold overall judgement until more are sampled.

One thing I will say, if you are looking a stylish coupe for munching miles in total luxury all the while saving you money at the pump, look no farther than the A5 3.0TDi, it's a very quick car, the equal of the TT3.2 in acceleration which will return 45mpg.

chiphead
July 1st, 2007, 15:04
Afaik, quattor gmbh handles the RS-line while Audi does the S-line. Audi is not really sure what the 5 series' MO is (all they know is how to appeal to the LCD and steal some sales from the CLK clientelle), while it is clear to quattro is going after the M3 clientelle. ;)

+44 Dave
July 4th, 2007, 11:09
Its odd though with no obvious equivelent model to the S5 at the moment. I think the confused reviews are because of what the critics are comparing it to, if they look to compared the S5 to the 335ci then of course the S5 will seem better but its also more expensive. Where as if its up against the RS4, M3 and CLK63 then its a battle the S5 doesnt stand a chance of winning.
It does seem though that the market is opening up to Audi's way of thinking which is interesting. Notice that there is now a level above AMG at Mercedes in Black Sieres now and there has even been talk of the BMW CSL brand being opened up to all models, for example the start point being the M6 CSL.
Somebody somewhere is worried about Audi's strategy whatever we think of it, and the market it is definately considering change to adjust to it.
I believe these multiple divisions and series of Mercedes BMW and Audi are due to the ever rising horsepower wars we have on our plates which are looking for huge engines ahead of handling, wieght and braking.
What do you think ?

Leadfoot
July 4th, 2007, 11:19
Dave,

I think you are confusing the S and RS range, the reason for the CSL and Black Series is because Audi have the RS version to compete with the M and AMG but also have done a plus version as well. It is this the BMW and Merc are trying to compete with.

I think Audi have put the S5 in a no-man's land at present and I don;t know if this policy will work, only the sales success will tell who is right.

MR USER
July 4th, 2007, 14:48
I am not so convicend on what you say... In my opinion is all about product placement. The S version is a standard car fitted with a powerful engine. in other words the optimal car for who wants confort and power... I think is the perfet product for family oriented but with confort in mind...

On the other hand the RS is a sport car, with very little compromises. It's set up to perform and there is no compromise in that...

Comparing them makes no sense. I had this clear feeling when testdriving the S4... I used to drive an A4 2.5 tdi Quattro with sport suspension.

I got out of the S4 thinking that is had the same driving dynamics and the same type of responses than my old A4. The RS on the other hand handles in a completely different way. feels and performs on another level...

To conclude, S is palced like a normal car with a powerful engine. RS is a sport car with 3 extra seats and a large boot!

Leadfoot
July 4th, 2007, 15:33
Mr User,

I know there you are coming from but you have a RS4 so you already know that it is actually more comfortable than the S4 was. The S5 isn't a saloon car that can take a whole family, it only has four seats and the rear ones are not really suited to 6ft tall adults. It a sports coupe and as such the customer has already compromised, he/she is looking for a sportscar with the handling and performance that goes with it.

After my drive in the A5 3.0TDi, this didn't feel like a step up from the old A4 saloon that it should have been. The S5 have to perform a lot better than this A5 and the S4 in my opinion to be considered as an alternative to either the old S4 or 335i.

Out right performance can only get you so far when selling a sportscar, the handling and emotion has to be there as well, especially when you are being asked to pay an extra £3.5K over the price of a BMW 335i M/Sport Coupe or a S4 for the pleasure.